VDSL wrong profile issue?

Hi, I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction to get my slow VDSL broadband connection issue resolved, or tell me that this is the best speeds I can get and stop harassing my ISP.

I've had this issue for years, had engineer visits (see # below), switched routers, filters, test sockets, disconnected phones etc... yet the problem still exists. I suspect that I'm on a 40/10 profile and not the 80/20 I should be on. Having to call my ISP and deal with BT sucks my will to live. They both feel like they are feeding me bullsh1t and I dont know enough to call them out on it.

Originally when I switched to FTTC I was getting 68.6 Down and 17.4 Up. At some point this speed reduced to around 30 Down and 6 Up. I reported the issue to my then ISP Plusnet (Force9) but, with the customer service and other issues I got nowhere. I concluded I needed to switch ISP and so moved to Zen who estimated "Your line will typically support up to 57.2Mbps download (Min. 40.0Mbps and Max. 76.3Mbps), 19.0Mbps upload".

I never achieved these speeds and whilst I did see a small improvement it looked like I was still on the 40/10 product. Calls to Zen tech support are somewhat disappointing but at least they'll send out a BT engineer with a bit of arm twisting.

#The last BT engineer I had visit revealed something interesting. I requested that the engineer pull my line (disconnecting my phone and BB) and test the line at the cabinet. He did this and concluded that there was something wrong with my socket and sync was 40/10...... Yay! progress... He called some BT openreach support desk? and was on the phone for over an hour (mainly on hold) and came back and said they'ed reset the sync and needed to wait 10 mins. 10 mins came and went and there was no change in sync, my speeds remained about the same (36.7D 9.2U). He called the BT openreach support desk? This time he was on the phone for 5 mins tops and concluded there must be aluminium in the line and this is the speed my line can support and thats the end of it. I had the impression I was being fobbed off.

I tea'ed and biscuit'ed my BT engineer, maybe they weren't our top tier chocolate biscuits but they were still chocolate biscuits. I wont make that mistake again.

I'll post some router stats etc in a reply you'll find below (dont want this post to be too big)


I just need to know if I should pursue this issue and if so how OR This is my speed. the issue is my line, stop calling the ISP.


Regards

Big Rick

Draytek router 2850 info


VDSL Information (VDSL Firmware Version: 1414c3 )

Profile State UP Speed Down Speed SNR Upstream SNR Downstream
17a Showtime 9903 (Kbps) 39817 (Kbps) 50 (0.1dB) 58 (0.1dB)

Server Information (Broadcom v10.09.12 )


VDSL
Link Status Showtime
Firmware Version 1414c3
Basic Status Upstream Downstream Unit
VDSL Profile 17a
Actual Data Rate 9903 39817 Kb/s
SNR 51 58 0.1dB
Advance Status Upstream Downstream Unit
Actual delay 0 8 ms
Actual INP 0 30 0.1 symbols
Actual INP 0 30 0.1 symbols
15M CV 2 0 counter
1Day CV 175 2 counter
15M FEC 6 7 counter
1Day FEC 590 34917 counter
Total FEC 87210 578840 counter
Previous Data Rate 9501 39668 Kbps
Attainable Rate 9676 39817 Kbps
Electrical Length 127 127 0.1 dB
SNR Margin 53 53 (US0,--) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin 51 58 (US1,DS1) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin 51 58 (US2,DS2) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin N/A 58 (US3,DS3) 0.1 dB
SNR Margin N/A N/A (US4,DS4) 0.1 dB
15M Elapsed time 752 752 secs
15M FECS 4 1 counter
15M ES 2 0 counter
15M SES 0 0 counter
15M LOSS 0 0 counter
15M UAS 0 0 counter
1Day Elapsed time 79952 79952 secs
1Day FECS 382 390 counter
1Day ES 159 1 counter
1Day SES 0 0 counter
1Day LOSS 0 0 counter
1Day UAS 0 0 counter
Total FECS 52132 5513 counter
Total ES 18402 45 counter
Total SES 4 18 counter
Total LOSS 0 0 counter
Total UAS 36820 236 counter


===============================================================

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER (dslchecker.bt.com)


High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 76.2 56.3 20 19 49.8 Available -- Yes Yes --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 67.6 40 20 11.2 35 Available -- Yes Yes --
Featured Products


============================================================

BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test (http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/)


Download speedachieved during the test was - 37.41 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 26.98 Mbps-38.54 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 38.54 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 7.03Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

==================================================================

If line is capped by a 40/10 product, then you'd expect full sync and solid 37 Mbps speed tests, so when you were getting 30 down and 6 up this suggests that something else underlying has gone on.

Remember 80/20 is just an uncapped 40/10 so if the line performance has degraded due to cross talk then then you might get what you have.

According to Draytek

In reference to www.draytek.co.uk/information/our-technology/bt-sin-498:

DrayTek's very earliest VDSL2 products (The Vigor 2850 and 2750, sold until 2013) are not upgradable to SIN498 compliance as the chipsets do not have the capability to support some of the new requirements. For those users, if you wish to upgrade to a compliant model, we have provided an upgrade scheme here.

Your router doesn't support G.INP which would probably improve your sync speed.

Thanks for your reply....

The upgrade from 30 to 37 was following last engineer visit. Also noticed that that the wholesale performance test IP Profile went from 40/10 to 38/20

Would cross talk have increased as people moved from ADSL to VDSL?

My next door neighbour is getting around 56MB down. Houses are 20yrs old suspect cable runs are the same.

*Edit: Some hoses maybe 20 yrs old but these ones arent

Edited by deleted (Tue 09-May-17 13:41:57)

Attainable rate is NOT capped by the product used, and thus suggests your line is running to the best of its current abilities.

G.INP as mentioned could give you a speed boost, were you using a different device before perhaps?

Crosstalk can potentially count for the speed drops and its not even in how it behaves, if using power line devices at home then worth unplugging them to check its not those causing an issue.

In reply to a post by SWS:

I tea'ed and biscuit'ed my BT engineer, maybe they weren't our top tier chocolate biscuits but they were still chocolate biscuits. I wont make that mistake again.

That made me chuckle

Thanks for the reply BatBoy.

I was not aware of that draytek VDSL shortfall. I assume that G.INP issue is to do with the modem part of the draytek router and if I switch to using PPPoE with the original BT VDSL modem I can eliminate the G.INP issue?

Will give that a try now..... Like right NOW!

Still haven't worked out if the next BT engineer wont have ANY chocie biscuits OR I'll bust out the expensive biscuits that will get me into trouble with the missus

Ok I've switched to the original BT openreach modem via PPPoE. Ran a speed test slightly slower. Will leave it in this config for a couple of days to see if theres any improvement.

Is line training still a thing?

Which modem is it, ECI or Huawei?

It won't be easy to determine if G.INP is being used by the Openreach modem as the line stats aren't available unless the modem has been unlocked. You will probably have to rely on the BT speed test further diagnostics to obtain the BT IP profile for your line.

Assuming your modem and cabinet support G.INP, it could take a couple of weeks for it to be turned on.

Modem is ECI item code 061513


also have available a ZyXEL VMG1312-B10D

Will that be better? Anyone know if I can configure as modem?

The Zyxel would be better. There's a guide here https://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/ZyXEL-VMG...

Switched to ZyXEL here are the stats



============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 0 day: 0 hour: 46 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 8.191 Mbps 39.988 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 8.157 Mbps 39.916 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
SNR Margin: 6.2 dB 6.1 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 8 ms
Transmit Power: 6.4 dBm 14.0 dBm
Receive Power: -6.9 dBm -4.5 dBm
Actual INP: 0.0 symbols 3.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 13.4 dB 18.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 8.157 Mbps 46.633 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 7.4 28.2 41.0 N/A 13.3 32.4 49.6
Signal Attenuation(dB): 7.4 27.5 40.2 N/A 16.2 32.1 49.6
SNR Margin(dB): 6.1 6.2 6.2 N/A 6.1 6.1 6.1
Transmit Power(dBm): 0.4 -15.8 5.2 N/A 11.6 8.1 6.6
============================================================================

VDSL Counters

Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 46 min 3 sec
FEC: 3054 12
CRC: 0 6
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 40 sec
FEC: 66 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 612 6
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 46 min 40 sec
FEC: 3054 12
CRC: 0 6
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 37 37
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Total time = 46 min 40 sec
FEC: 3054 12
CRC: 0 6
ES: 0 6
SES: 0 0

Some basic advice ...

Don't keep swapping routers too often. DLM intervention is the last thing you want to happen right now.

More details...

When you run a speed test at BTW's tester, the IP profiles tell you two totally different things. The downstream one varies as a proportion of the actual sync speed, so can help to track that. The upstream stays constant at resyncs, but always reflects the package your line has been configured with. If it is 20Mbps now, it means you are on an 80/20 package. If you were 10Mbps previously, you must have been on either 40/10 or 55/10.

The actual sync speeds shown so far have been slightly below the 40/10 mark, but they have been too far below it to suggest that they have been affected by a 40/10 cap. You'd expect to see 39999/9999 (or so) if that were true.

Likewise, if your line was capped, and higher speeds were possible, you'd see a noise margin well above 6dB. That isn't the case.

Instead, it looks like DLM had intervened, and turned on FEC (using 10%ish of your bandwidth) and interleaving (adding 8ms of latency).

DLM might have been turned on because of previous high error rates, in which case you might not get it turned off. Or, if you are on a Huawei cabinet, it might have been a reaction to the Draytek's failure to support G.INP.

Right now, you want DLM to monitor your line with the new modem, and leave it to see what happens. It keeps working permanently to keep your line stable; there's no such thing as training really, but DLM will first trigger about 48 hours after it was reset, and then tends to make adjustments each night, if necessary.

You are getting some FECs, so there is some interference affecting your line.Its hard to say what DLM will choose to do.

Initial signs are good... I can already see an improvement in speed according to the BT wholesale checker. Should I contact my ISP and request they reset something or just wait?

Thanks again for the advice.... I'll keep you posted over the coming days

================================================================


BT Wholesale Broadband Performance Test (http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/)

Download speedachieved during the test was - 44.11 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-45.5 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 45.5 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 6.88Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Just wait for now . If there is nothing obviously wrong, and until it settles after improving which could continue, they will either fob you off, make something up to dazzle you with incorrect techno-speak, or do something and wreck the improvement process that DLM is working through.

What would be useful is to post the stats again, so we can see what has changed in the settings, rather than just the results shown by a speed test . Though the speed test was worth having.

Here are my latest stats... I have to admit that on the 10th of May whilst configuring the ZyXEL router I had to disconnect / restart the router many times.

Can anyone recommend a SOHO VDSL router? require basic wifi, parental scheduling of firewall & cost <£200


Regards




============================================================================
VDSL Training Status: Showtime
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL Profile: Profile 17a
Traffic Type: PTM Mode
Link Uptime: 1 day: 0 hour: 12 minutes
============================================================================
VDSL Port Details Upstream Downstream
Line Rate: 9.799 Mbps 46.580 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 9.800 Mbps 46.581 Mbps
Trellis Coding: ON ON
Total Attenuation: 0.0 dB 18.4 dB
SNR Margin: 5.9 dB 6.0 dB
Actual Delay: 0 ms 0 ms
Transmit Power: 7.5 dBm 14.0 dBm
Receive Power: -6.6 dBm -4.5 dBm
Actual INP: 44.0 symbols 54.0 symbols
Total Attenuation: 14.3 dB 18.6 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate: 9.800 Mbps 46.035 Mbps
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3
Line Attenuation(dB): 7.4 28.2 41.1 N/A 13.3 32.4 49.7
Signal Attenuation(dB): 7.4 27.5 40.7 N/A 16.2 32.1 49.7
Total Attenuation: 0.0 dB 18.4 dB
SNR Margin(dB): 5.9 5.9 5.9 N/A 6.1 5.9 6.0
Transmit Power(dBm): 0.7 -16.0 6.6 N/A 11.6 8.1 6.6
============================================================================

VDSL Counters

Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 12 min 49 sec
FEC: 158267 1084
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 36 sec
FEC: 721 1
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 1305 6
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 9 min 36 sec
FEC: 116525 853
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 183007 386
CRC: 552 98
ES: 10 95
SES: 10 0
UAS: 80 70
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 5 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
Total time = 1 days 19 hours 9 min 36 sec
FEC: 299532 1239
CRC: 552 98


======================================================================

Speed test results
----------------------

Download speedachieved during the test was - 41.96 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-43.03 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 43.03 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.85Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps


https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

In reply to a post by SWS:

Can anyone recommend a SOHO VDSL router? require basic wifi, parental scheduling of firewall & cost <£200

Go for the recently released Asus DSL-AC88U which is arguably the best vdsl router around. It uses the latest broadcom chipset so far better than previous Asus DSL variants.

Ebuyer were selling this for £170 not too long ago but their price has shot up to £218. Otherwise Pcworld are selling this for £209.

http://www.ebuyer.com/786250-ac3100-dual-band-adsl-v...
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/...

Edited by deleted (Fri 12-May-17 10:54:48)

Took the plunge and purchased a Asus DSL-AC88U as per baby_frogmella recommendation. Router is ok, but somewhat limited in features. Updating the firmware to a beta version appears to have resolved some of the shortcomings.

Speeds are slowly increasing. I'm sure they would have increased faster if it weren't for all the router restarts while setting up. I think I'm in a position where I'm happy with config and wont require any more disconnecting changes.

The internet disconnected about an hour and a half ago. This wasn't my doing and was the first disconnect I have noticed. Will keep my eye on it

Find below latest stats



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Download speedachieved during the test was - 43.61 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-44.95 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 44.95 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 7.84Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System Log - DSL Log

This page shows the detailed system's activities.
DSL Driver Version A2pvfbH043g.d26p
DSL Link Status Link up
DSL Uptime 0 days 1 hours 21 minutes 3 seconds
DSL modulation VDSL2
ANNEX Mode ANNEX B
Current Profile 17a
TCM(Trellis Coded Modulation) ON
Line Status Downstream Upstream
SNR 6.3 dB 6.2 dB
Line Attenuation 18.9 dB 0 dB
Path Mode Interleaved Interleaved
Interleave Depth 8 1
Data Rate 46487 kbps 8677 kbps
MAX Rate 47115 kbps 8710 kbps
POWER 14.0 dbm 7.6 dbm
CRC 0 9
HEC 0 0
ES 11 113
INP 49.00 symbols 0 symbols

My broadband has been connected for over 4 days now with little to no additional performance increase. At what point should I contact my ISP and request a reset?

How are my stats below looking?


Regards

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Download speed achieved during the test was - 43.61 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 Mbps-44.95 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 44.95 Mbps


Upload speed achieved during the test was - 7.85 Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System Log - DSL Log

This page shows the detailed system's activities.
DSL Driver Version A2pvfbH043g.d26p
DSL Link Status Link up
DSL Uptime 4 days 2 hours 3 minutes 48 seconds
DSL modulation VDSL2
ANNEX Mode ANNEX B
Current Profile 17a
TCM(Trellis Coded Modulation) ON

Line Status Downstream Upstream
SNR 6.1 dB 6.2 dB
Line Attenuation 18.9 dB 0 dB
Path Mode Interleaved Interleaved
Interleave Depth 8 1

Data Rate 46487 kbps 8677 kbps
MAX Rate 47216 kbps 8748 kbps

POWER 14.0 dbm 7.5 dbm
CRC 2 496
HEC 0 0
ES 12 588
INP 49.00 symbols 0 symbols

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just an update...

Called ISP to request resetting DSLAM. They stated speeds were within BT estimates and they need to report a fault so as they can call BT engineer who can reset DSLAM. ISP suggested waiting another week (2 weeks total) with new router config.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Download speedachieved during the test was - 41.94 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 40 Mbps-43.1 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 43.1 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 9.88Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DSL Driver Version A2pvfbH043g.d26p
DSL Link Status Link up
DSL Uptime 2 days 20 hours 1 minutes 53 seconds
DSL modulation VDSL2
ANNEX Mode ANNEX B
Current Profile 17a
TCM(Trellis Coded Modulation) ON
Line Status Downstream Upstream
SNR 5.9 dB 5.7 dB
Line Attenuation 18.9 dB 0 dB
Path Mode Interleaved Interleaved
Interleave Depth 4 4
Data Rate 46656 kbps 11089 kbps
MAX Rate 46084 kbps 11011 kbps
POWER 14.0 dbm 7.5 dbm
CRC 0 0
HEC 0 0
ES 11 97
INP 58.00 symbols 44.00 symbols


I notice that upstream INP symbols have increased from 0 to 44 & upstream inteleave depth increased from 0 to 4. I also note the zero crc errors.

Hopefully things are moving in the right direction albeit slowly