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Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Tue 09-Jun-20 11:35:10
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Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


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A friend of mine was sent replacement BT Home Hub to cure a problem. It appears to be a 'refurbished' one too.

All is fine, except Google now thinks he lives 400 miles away in Glasgow.

He thinks that location is determined by Google keeping a log of router MAC addresses, if that's the case, how do you go about resetting that, and if it isn't the case what's happening !?
Standard User gary333
(committed) Tue 09-Jun-20 12:14:08
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Surely the location is based off the IP address. Changing the router will have allocated a different IP. As long as it’s not showing in another country then it should not cause any issues.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 12:16:12
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
To add it will probably update at some point but it will be based on Google's algorithms to do that - how long it takes and how accurate will entirely depend on Google and if the IP changes again (which it probably will) then the location is likely to change again. Generally IP location services are poor and cannot be relied upon for anything.


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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 13:00:10
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:
He thinks that location is determined by Google keeping a log of router MAC addresses, if that's the case, how do you go about resetting that, and if it isn't the case what's happening !?

If he has a smartphone on the WiFi with GPS and uses Google maps, or almost any google app, it will eventually update. Give it a couple of weeks.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User funkydan
(learned) Tue 09-Jun-20 13:12:15
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Google puts me all over the place. I'm in London. Google has shown my IP location as being in North London, West London, Manchester and somewhere in Cheshire. Currently it shows my location as Woolton Hill near Newbury in Berkshire.
I have location services turned off in Windows and all other devices.
It could be if location services are turned off it takes the area from what server i'm connected to as my current location.
Either way it doesn't bother me.
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 13:41:42
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
I'd be surprised if Google had any record of the hub's MAC address unless a Google Smart Home device is connected to it and I'm not even certain about that.

As I undestand it, it may be possible to extract this information from Internet Explorer browsers which have ActiveX enabled for a particular website. I don't use Internet Exploder though so haven't played around with this.

The question I'd really want answering is what issues is it actually causing your friend? From my point of view, if Google doesn't have a clue where I am that's a big plus.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 13:47:59
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
If he has a smartphone on the WiFi with GPS and uses Google maps, or almost any google app, it will eventually update. Give it a couple of weeks.
I may be missing something here but what would the benefits of that be to him? As far as I can tell the only benefits would be to Google because he can then be targeted with location accurate adverts.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 16:30:02
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
I may be missing something here but what would the benefits of that be to him? As far as I can tell the only benefits would be to Google because he can then be targeted with location accurate adverts.

I completely agree, and personally don't have Google maps installed on my phone. My location is fairly accurate because I use Virgin Media's cable service, so the IP range is specific to my town. Other ISPs that are accessed via a PPPoE session can locate you anywhere. A friend of mine across town usually appears as being in Oxford on his VDSL. smile

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User E300
(regular) Tue 09-Jun-20 17:36:06
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Google uses Android phones to log the location of Wi-Fi access points to supplement it's location service, it uses the Wi-Fi's MAC address and Android devices that are in range that also know exactly where they are from GPS. This then allows other devices to know where they are if they don't have GPS, and/or provides a quicker location fix.

If the access point was used in a different location, the MAC address is likely already registered at that other location, giving the wrong location for any device using the Wi-Fi MAC address to find where it is.

Eventually Google should update the location as Android devices that pass within range that also have a confirmed GPS location will tell Google of the access points around it, and Google will notice the access point has moved and update its database.

The only way to stop this happening is to append on the access point SSID "_nomap", see https://support.google.com/maps/answer/1725632?hl=en-GB
Standard User broadbandjockey
(member) Tue 09-Jun-20 18:34:38
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: E300] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to all, @E300's explanation would seem to make sense.

As for why it's a nuisance, well it doesn't make searching for local goods and services via Google very user friendly ?
Standard User Discus
(experienced) Tue 09-Jun-20 18:59:12
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
You can try using something like this: https://whatismyipaddress.com/location-feedback

Bear in mind though, if your friend has a dynamic ip address, the location of a newly allocated address will show at the last known location of the address for a few days.

http://www.marksfish.me.uk - Personal fishkeeping website
Standard User adrenalize_
(regular) Tue 09-Jun-20 21:42:52
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I find the geo "accuracy" of the various PPPoE ISPs can vary quite a bit. A lot of IP geolocation sources will actually be getting their data from companies such as Maxmind - you can try your own IP on their site: https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-precision-demo

My home IP on BT FTTC is dynamic and can be from quite a wide variety of BTs IP ranges, yet Maxmind always puts me in a town about 10 miles away. My mobile on EE odly can also give some 'localish' locations at times and at other times vary.

Some previous ISPs would always stick me in Warrington, Newbury, Sheffield etc (Spot the ISPs!!)

I would love an insight into some of the additional data sources that Maxmind obtain to enhance their geo, funnily enough they keep that close to their chests.

But safe to say from IP it's never that accurate to know exactly where you are, just good enough to serve you those lovely "Want to meet mythical unicorns in Blah Town" adverts and try an make some money out of you!
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 09-Jun-20 22:13:58
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adrenalize_:
A lot of IP geolocation sources will actually be getting their data from companies such as Maxmind - you can try your own IP on their site: https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-precision-demo


Geolocation is not an exact science, but a product of companies as you say like Maxmind, or Google, or companies like Skyhook wireless whom had a database of SSID to location long before Google did it (and got into the press).

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Tue 09-Jun-20 22:15:31)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Jun-20 07:23:18
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: adrenalize_] [link to this post]
 
Maxmind put my fixed IPv4 address in Lewisham and my IPv6 address in Aylesbury - neither anywhere near where I live.

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User Malwaremike
(experienced) Wed 10-Jun-20 11:35:12
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
I don't like Google's spying and take care to clear memory/cookies whenever Google reports my location's somewhere close. Right now it thinks I'm 400 miles away from my actual location. However, it must be useful for those seeking local services etc.

In fairness I used its satnav on my phone to drive from Ayrshire to Oxford, about 17Mb downloaded with traffic info and clear guidance. As always there's a price for Big G's excellent service and it's your privacy.
Standard User Hormone
(newbie) Wed 10-Jun-20 18:04:37
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: Malwaremike] [link to this post]
 
Hi all. It's an odd issue as my Google Maps location changes with the browser I'm using. Chrome, Firefox and Opera all show my in the right location but Brave puts me in Aylesbury currently. It was Abingdon for some months before that so maybe it's just working its way slowly to my right location in Hook Norton! I've not changed the router or laptop so it can only be the browser doing this?
Standard User fenlandbroadband
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 11-Jun-20 10:14:26
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Re: Google Marking wrong location after new router supplied


[re: broadbandjockey] [link to this post]
 
Google recently has said I'm in two completely different parts of the country when checking on my phone or PC. I'm not logged in to Google on either of them, and have been using In Private sessions so no cookies/history.

Yet if I ask a Google speaker in the same house (registered and logged in to another user) it doesn't say that location and says the right one.

I think it's just a Google thing, rather than the router. For reference I've got a static IP so it's not like I've got someone else's IP from those areas.

____________________________
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(and previously plusnet ADSL2+ Annex M Jan 2014-Mar 2015, Be* Jan 2009-Jan 2014, ZeN Dec 2006-Jan 2009, plusnet Aug 2004-Dec 2006, ZeN Apr 2003-Aug 2004)
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