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Standard User Deadringers
(newbie) Mon 29-Jun-20 13:20:44
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Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[link to this post]
 
Hey there,

I've recently moved into a house where I ripped out all the old/dodgy phone extension cords around the house and put in a new master socket.
I don't have a screen shot of old VDSL line stats - but things have improved drastically in terms of errors and other counters.
I did all this during the 10 days training period, so not sure if that might have messed things up?

My issue is that line stats & download speeds are good but upload seems to be stuck at 7 mbps.

55 down - 7 up.

Should I ask my ISP (Vodafone) to do anything on their end?

Are my stats good enough that I should expect better upload, or is 7 the best I could hope for?


I don't have a screenshot, but I do remember at my flat (where we moved from) I got about 14 mbps upload, and I had a ton more errors etc on the line...not sure if that's meaningful.

Screenshots here of my stats etc - also I notice BT wholesale figures don't match up with what I'm getting - i.e. my download is faster than what BT things I can get...perhaps it's updated very few weeks and hasn't taken into account my new master socket and better wiring?

https://imgur.com/OlL1g4U

https://imgur.com/DJvclQR

https://imgur.com/7DlCdwp

https://imgur.com/diRrHYw
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Jun-20 13:37:04
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Deadringers] [link to this post]
 
10 training period is a myth on VDSL2

Lines will vary over the whole life time, with options switching on/off that may improve or decrease speeds depending on how things have behaved over a number of weeks.

The upload might not improve, different locations will have have power profiles possibly and noise sources affecting things. So it is sit back and wait to see what happens.

7 Mbps upload with 55 Mbps sync is an outlier but only just outside their estimated range. Remember the BT wholesale checker does nothing to limit your speeds in anyway.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Deadringers
(newbie) Mon 29-Jun-20 13:39:14
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the response - I didn't know about training period being a myth on VDSL2... you learn something new every day!

So it seems just wait and hope is all I can do?


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 29-Jun-20 14:43:11
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
10 training period is a myth on VDSL2


Agreed, that is to get a standard 6dB SNR/margin. However there is an ongoing training period that allows the drop to 5dB, 4dB and finally 3dB.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Jun-20 14:53:17
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Deadringers] [link to this post]
 
Pretty much, if you were plugging/unplugging a lot it will be a few weeks of stable lower errors being recorded before anything happens.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Deadringers
(newbie) Mon 29-Jun-20 14:55:11
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thank you very much for the help on that - is this because the equipment in the cab constantly assess and makes changes, but very slowly?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Jun-20 16:48:08
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Deadringers] [link to this post]
 
The cabinet reports back error stats and a central system with various rules makes the assessment automatically whether to apply G.INP, change interleaving depth, lower or raise target noise margin.

This is done by looking at long term trends.

The cabinet simply syncs the modem up according to the rules this remote system has set, the biggest one being whether your line is a 40/10, 55/10 or 80/20 product.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 29-Jun-20 17:56:40
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Deadringers] [link to this post]
 
Your Upstream is at the default 6dB SNRM (noise margin).

The upstream has no more to give and there's nothing DLM can do to improve it.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 30-Jun-20 00:50:09
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The cabinet reports back error stats and a central system with various rules makes the assessment automatically whether to apply G.INP, change interleaving depth, lower or raise target noise margin.

This is done by looking at long term trends.

The cabinet simply syncs the modem up according to the rules this remote system has set, the biggest one being whether your line is a 40/10, 55/10 or 80/20 product.
What upload and download speeds would one get with a similar line if one had an 80/20 product?

Michael Chare
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 30-Jun-20 09:23:44
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Looking at the maximum rates shown in https://imgur.com/7DlCdwp - very little more!

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 30-Jun-20 15:43:03
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
What upload and download speeds would one get with a similar line if one had an 80/20 product?


The line is synced at 55477 which means it must already be on 80/20

It's impossible to sync above 55000 on any other package.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 30-Jun-20 15:43:22)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 30-Jun-20 18:49:49
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, at the moment I have a 40/10 product. My router shows an attainable rate of 49Mbps, so I don't think it worth paying for an 80/20 product, but sometimes Vodafone for example will let you have an 80/20 product for the same price. I just wondered if there are any disadvantages of accepting the offer.

Michael Chare
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 30-Jun-20 19:11:49
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
10 training period is a myth on VDSL2


Agreed, that is to get a standard 6dB SNR/margin. However there is an ongoing training period that allows the drop to 5dB, 4dB and finally 3dB.


That's not an ongoing training period though.
That continues for the duration the line is active.

On FTTC the DLM is in effect from day 1.
While it can optimise the connection and lower the SNRM this can happen on day 10 or day 1,000.

The 10 day training period is specific to the ADSL DLM.
For whatever reason ISP's trot the same 10 day training period nonsense on FTTC.
It's a convenient excuse to brush off the customer for 10 days.

The same 10 day training period nonsense was given when FTTC launched back when every line started off on fastpath from day 0.
They continued to quote the 10 day training period for years before lower SNRM dB's were even a thing so it's stretching it a little to suggest that's the reason for a training period being mentioned.

Those on ECI cabinets with no lower dB SNRM's still get quoted the 10 day training period.

It simply doesn't exist on FTTC. It is a myth.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 30-Jun-20 19:12:05)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 30-Jun-20 19:19:17
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Re: Wondering If I Could Get Faster Upload


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
OK training may not be the best word to use as it will be confused with the original 10 day training, but there is the ONGOING learning/monitoring/optimistic. It is a word that has been used for years where modems will train to the best data rate and continually retrain to optimise. Suppliers and designers I work with on modems way more complex than those used for FTTC will frequently refer to "training" as modems adapt to the changing conditions and potential data rates.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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