Lag in Video Chat Rooms

I have 3 machines, newish HP Laptop, an old PC and a new Gaming PC all hardwired via the same switches to router and fibre service the 2 PC's are connected to a Samsung 40" HDTV

Here's the problem: the lag in chat is about 6 seconds on the PCs opposed to the Laptop, so if someone comments I see it first on the Laptop but have to wait for it to appear on either of the PCs which is causing me problems as I am a moderator and prefer using the PCs for this function.

Any ideas what the problem is?

You need to figure out if it’s an ‘app/hardware’ issue or a ‘network’ issue.

Right now I’d say it’s the former, because if it was network then you would have other side effects common to all three machines - given they are all wired through common hardware. Are all machines running the same OS and OS version, app version etc ?

You haven’t indicated whether the actual quality of the video in the meetings is impaired, presumably not. Just the chat functionality?

It may be due to the normal digital delays which each device you are using shows. All digital circuits add a delay but it will depend on when the item was made. For example early DAB radios have a longer delay than modern ones due to the circuit improvements.For example my dab radio is 2 seconds behind analogue signals.

It is also possible that your TV imposes a delay which you would not see when watching TV.

Have you had success using a similar setup before?

Is the chat running in a web browser? If yes, are they the same web browser and browser versions? Different web browsers can sometimes work differently or do not support some methods of maintaining a live connection for real-time uptimes and might fall back to polling every several seconds.

What if you only sign into the chat application on one device? It might be the server hosting only supports one instance for holding open a websocket for real-time updates.

old PC running Win 10, both New Gaming PC and Laptop running Win 11 all are upto date with OS updates, no betas etc , they all have Cat6 wiring to first unmanaged switch about 3 feet away which then runs from the front roo to the hallway, less than 10 feet away to second switch which is connected to the Linksys Velop/EG8120L and on to the Fibre network.

I've tried Edge, Google Chrome and Firefox browsers to connect to the chat lines even tried using VPNs to no avail, only the laptop seems to see the chat 6 seconds earlier than the PCs.

The Gaming PC has the best graphics car being newer, video quality is normally very good except when they have problems with the servers although the 6 second lag is on both the video and chat

I did wonder if the TV was the problem, but used a 1-1/2 to 2 year old monitor also Samsung today and still the same problem

Yes, tend to stick to the Edge Browser on all 3 machines old machine Win 10, other 2 are Win 11 and all uptodate, I did try Chrome and firefox on the old computer but no difference

Is there something I need to alter in Edge on the PCs

I was wondering if it was the TV, it's probably about 5-6 years old now but I did try a newer monitor I had left over from a Mini PC that I gave to someone else, with the same end result

The only real difference between the Laptop and the Game PC is that the Laptop has integrated Graphics and the PC has a graphics card both Radeon, the PC a 16GB RX6600XT

I could understand if it was the older PC only, but the other 2 wre bought within weeks of each other , the laptop first.

Might have missed it, but what platform are you using for the calls / chat function? Does the same thing happen if you try the calls/chat on a different platform (ie Zoom, Teams, Skype etc)?

Have you tried using the particular platforms dedicated app rather than browsers for access?

I’m wondering if it’s a port/NAT firewall issue/limitation on the Linksys, with multiple participants on the same call/meeting.

Might also be worth checking you don’t inadvertently have some video prioritisation switched on the Velop for one of the clients etc.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Might have missed it, but what platform are you using for the calls / chat function? Does the same thing happen if you try the calls/chat on a different platform (ie Zoom, Teams, Skype etc)?

It is a browser based site, even using a mobile phone you would have to use a Chrome based browser as recommended by them

Have you tried using the particular platforms dedicated app rather than browsers for access?

No dedicated App

I’m wondering if it’s a port/NAT firewall issue/limitation on the Linksys, with multiple participants on the same call/meeting.

The only person I see in the chat is the host/broadcaster, everyone else including me are just in chat, but as moderator I have the options to silence anyone else in the chat only the host/broadcaster can ban them from the room, I do have other priviledges as well but that is the main one that is causing the problem, I should be silencing them before anyone else other than the host/broadcaster can see the message

Might also be worth checking you don’t inadvertently have some video prioritisation switched on the Velop for one of the clients etc.

That would affect the laptop as well though surely

Couple more thoughts. On each PC browse to https://test-ipv6.com/ and confirm they all give the same results, this is an IPv6 test, it may pass or fail, the important thing is are all the PCs operating the same on the network. Thoughts here, if the laptop is using IPv6 but the others are IPv4, the IPv6 machine may have the advantage of bypassing NAT.

Also on each PC when using the chat right click in Edge, click Inspect, then select the Console tab, you are looking here for any regular errors that might indicate connectivity problems every 5 or 6 seconds that may point towards where the problem is.

It definitely isn't a delay caused by the TV as a monitor as that would affect everything, i.e. your biggest complaint would be why you have to wait 6 seconds for what you have typed to show up on the screen.

Ah I see. It’s a custom webcasting platform, rather than one of the generic web conferencing solutions I mentioned.

A six second delay is pretty significant - almost like a processing delay (centrally/ at the provider?) rather than networking /comms at your end.

Are there any debug / diagnostic tools on their platform that you can check the health of each client connection with? It may require a call to their support to access them.

In reply to a post by E300:

Couple more thoughts. On each PC browse to https://test-ipv6.com/ and confirm they all give the same results, this is an IPv6 test, it may pass or fail, the important thing is are all the PCs operating the same on the network. Thoughts here, if the laptop is using IPv6 but the others are IPv4, the IPv6 machine may have the advantage of bypassing NAT.

On the IPV6 test the first 4 blocks are all the same, the last 4 are not, presumably because each machine is different address, all score 10/10

Also on each PC when using the chat right click in Edge, click Inspect, then select the Console tab, you are looking here for any regular errors that might indicate connectivity problems every 5 or 6 seconds that may point towards where the problem is.

I'll look at that later today when I'm online

It definitely isn't a delay caused by the TV as a monitor as that would affect everything, i.e. your biggest complaint would be why you have to wait 6 seconds for what you have typed to show up on the screen.

Anything I type I see straight away, it's what others type that is the problem, also I sometimes get an answer within a microsecond, so think they see what I have sent before I have actually finished, I see the same effect when the host/broadcaster types something rather than talks, I see the words on screen before I see them typed, just confuses the hell out of me

But wouldn't that affect everyone not just me, sometimes I am not alone as a moderator, and the others always beat me to the punch, not because they are quicker, but because they see the messages before I do [aka the 6 secondss] we have tested this ourselves, one of them thought is was my browser, he uses Firefox, that's why I tried Firefox, to no avail

Okay so we know the machines are likely connecting the same way.

So just to clarify, is it the video that is about 6 seconds behind, or the text is delayed by 6 seconds? When you say "I see the same effect when the host/broadcaster types something rather than talks, I see the words on screen before I see them typed" this sounds like the issue is with the video being delayed. Video being delayed isn't unusual, but 6 seconds is quite a lot.

In reply to a post by The_Voyager:

...sometimes I am not alone as a moderator, and the others always beat me to the punch, not because they are quicker, but because they see the messages before I do [aka the 6 secondss] we have tested this ourselves...

In the interests of diagnostics, have you tried testing using their login on your machine(s) to see if the fault travels with your account, or not?

Change passwords etc after of course.

The_Voyager

From reading all the post till 26/04 11.20am it seems that you have covered all the equipment bases.

6Sec lag does not sound like any equipment difference so you need to consider what the server is doing.


I wonder if the server is only seeing the Laptop as the moderator and ALL other devices( except the host) are getting a 6 sec lag imposed by the server to give the moderator time to react.

You may need to logout of all three sessions then login on the new gaming PC first then the other 2 machines this may change the server to treat the Gaming PC as the moderator.

Let me try and define this, I'm moderator M1 and Broadcaster is BC and a second moderator is M2 anyone else is C

a message from BC pops up in the chat and a couple of seconds later I see BC type the message
C types a message BC & M2 see the message about 5 or 6 seconds before M1
C is abusive M2 will silence C and messages are removed M1 only sees that C has been silencecd and did not see the abusive again about 5 or 6 seconds later

The_Voyager

Good description.

As my earlier post. Fairly certain that your laptop is M1 your other 2 machines are acting as C, even if you can moderate on them!

If you only have a session on a desktop open do you find the lag disappears. ( Turn the laptop off temporarily )

.

I have 3 accounts:
Old PC is the one I use mainly for Moderator

Game PC Is sometimes used as Moderator and logged in accordingly but is normally in sleep mode

Laptop I use as User mainly but if I am moderating 2 rooms I will use as a moderator but with a different account name/login to my normal moderator account but I always logout and log back in as User before I close the lid

I will try what you suggest about logging out of all accounts but I will also clear all cookies and site permissions before I try logging in with the Game machine so as to clear anything in Edge that might be carried from the old PC

Logged out on all machines, deleted cookies and site data, then logged back in on the Game PC only and have been online since 15:00 UTC+1 with the same problems, no other machine logged in

To be honest I don't think that would happen, everyone guards their secret identities like we are in MI6 < that's a joke

Presumably the laptop has WiFI + wired connection and the desktop machines are wired only?

Are you sure the laptop is *only* connecting through its wired connection (WiFi is completely disabled in other words)?

The_Voyager

Beyond me now. I have no idea how your 6 sec lag is being added in then. Somewhere deep in the PC settings something is adding the lag on the desktops but not on the laptop. The game machine is what puzzles me as they are usually optimised to minimise lag.

I look forward to you finding the problem and telling us the answer!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Presumably the laptop has WiFI + wired connection and the desktop machines are wired only?

Are you sure the laptop is *only* connecting through its wired connection (WiFi is completely disabled in other words)?

Humour me on this one @The_Voyager...

Can you log into the Linksys Velop router using the mobile app and check what's in the prioritisation section? Page 21 in the manual below.

https://downloads.linksys.com/downloads/userguide/Ve...

In reply to a post by The_Voyager:

C is abusive M2 will silence C and messages are removed M1 only sees that C has been silencecd and did not see the abusive again about 5 or 6 seconds later

If the platform you're using is delivering you the information that C has been silenced instantly but then taking a while to show you the actual messages then this sounds like a platform issue. If the delay was uniform across the board then maybe you could look at your network, but this isn't that.

Can you boot an Ubuntu live CD on your machine to narrow this down to your OS/browser/security software?

Yes wired only, I disabled the WiFi when I set the Laptop up and the router i/f acknowledges wired only

I've done so much googling over the past month trying to find an answer, I think I am going to be lumbered with it, luckily I'm well liked as a moderator by those I help, the lag doesn't worry them, even if I'm on my own. It's been driving me mad though but I think it may be a failed venture

No I don't get the info that they have been silenced instantly, it's probably the same lag, but your mention of security software may have hit it on the head, I use BitDefender Internet Security on the old machine and Bulldog that came with the Game PC, I might try disabling it [will look to see if I can exclude connection to the server] for my next session tomorrow afternoon and see what happens.

In reply to a post by The_Voyager:

I've done so much googling over the past month trying to find an answer, I think I am going to be lumbered with it, luckily I'm well liked as a moderator by those I help, the lag doesn't worry them, even if I'm on my own. It's been driving me mad though but I think it may be a failed venture

Try the very good suggestion above - boot using a USB into something like Ubuntu on each machine and run up the session on a browser.

This would at least rule in / rule out the windows build, app stack etc on each machine.

Well it wasn't the Security software managed to exclude the site and it was still the same, will have to give the Ubuntu a try but that will have to wait quite a while as I don't have any spare USB sticks and I'll have to work out how to incorporate my large list of phrases that I have to use in the chat to maintain order, I keep them in Quick Text Paste at the moment

I've replied to the User who suggested it but being a pensioner it will have to wait

I would like to thank everyone for trying to help with this problem, if I do manage to narrow it down I will make another post