Daily internet dropouts

Hi all, I'm after some help if at all possible. For around 2 months now I've been experiencing internet dropouts on a daily basis, with it happening at exactly the same time every day. I spent a long time going back and forth with my internet provider (Sky) without being able to find a fault with my line or router (they even sent me a new router in case that was the issue).

It suddenly dawned on me that the dropout was happening in the middle of my daily hot water schedule. The dropout was happening at around 11am, with my schedule being 10:30 - 12:00. So I tried playing around with the schedule. I changed it to 16:30 - 18:00, and lo and behold the daily dropout move to around 17:00. I then changed the schedule again to 17:30 - 19:00, and once again the dropout moved to happen at around 18:00. Clearly something to do with my schedule is somehow knocking out the ADSL connection on my router (it's not the WiFi dropping, it's the physical intent connection to the router itself).

This has all coincided with me getting a new Hive hub and mini thermostat at the start of July after my one was discontinued. Hive have said they may replace my hub to see if that is causing the issue, but I completely disconnected the hub itself for a few days and the issue was still happening.

Makes me wonder if the boiler itself is putting out a signal that is causing interference. For reference, I am not using my master socket as for some reason that is located in my garage nowhere near a power socket. So I'm using an extension in the kitchen, but there have been no issues in the nearly 10 years I've been in the house.

Here is an extract from my router of it happening. It does come back pretty quickly, it's only about 30 seconds it's down for.

2023-07-24 11:06:45 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-07-24 11:06:45 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-07-24 11:06:45 syslog: System time is up to date
2023-07-24 11:11:11 syslog: [156139.802000] Line 0: VDSL2 link down
2023-07-24 11:11:13 syslog: [156141.373000] Line 0: xDSL G.994 training
2023-07-24 11:11:15 syslog: Clear IP addresses. IP connection DOWN.
2023-07-24 11:11:28 syslog: [156156.425000] Line 0: VDSL G.993 started
2023-07-24 11:11:41 syslog: [156169.271000] Line 0: VDSL2 link up, Bearer 0, us=20000, ds=79999
2023-07-24 11:11:41 syslog: [156169.277000] Line 0: VDSL2 link up, Bearer 1, us=0, ds=0
2023-07-24 11:12:18 syslog: ptm0.1 - WAN link UP.
2023-07-24 11:12:18 syslog: Received valid DHCP lease from server. Connection UP.
2023-07-24 11:12:18 syslog: Connection Up. SNO/MAC/IP/SWVER/IPv6: [B252209B006557/9C31C323AAF8/94.9.212.131/4.12.0804.R/2a02:c7c:66a9:db00::1]
2023-07-24 11:12:24 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-07-24 11:12:25 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-07-24 11:12:37 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-07-24 11:12:37 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-07-24 11:12:38 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-07-24 11:12:38 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-07-24 11:12:48 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-07-24 11:13:27 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-07-24 11:13:27 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-07-24 11:13:37 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-07-24 11:13:51 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-07-24 11:13:51 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-07-24 11:14:03 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-07-24 11:17:23 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-07-24 11:17:23 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-07-24 11:17:32 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-07-24 11:17:40 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-07-24 11:17:40 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-07-24 11:17:52 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-07-24 11:37:00 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 rebind time:3060 ip 94.9.212.131
2023-07-24 12:11:28 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 rebind time:3060 ip 94.9.212.131
2023-07-24 12:42:38 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 rebind time:3060 ip 94.9.212.131
2023-07-24 13:13:12 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 rebind time:3060 ip 94.9.212.131
2023-07-24 13:13:12 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com

One other thing I forgot to add - I was initially using the RJ11 cables supplied by Sky which is about 2 metres long, this morning I switched it for a much shorter cable I had in the hope that this will reduce noise/interference on the line. I'll see later today if it helps when the schedule kicks in!

I'm assuming the Hive has a hub, Hive thermostat/control and the receiver is wired to the boiler, HW stat, diverter valve(s) (for HW, CH or both) and pump. The boiler is relatively new and has "pump overrun"

Just pondering - I'm not a heating engineer. AFAIK the hub provides the capability to control your Hive system from anywhere. If the hub is down, the Hive thermostat/control still talks via a wireless connection to the receiver which is wired to other parts of the heating system. Strange a new hub/Hive stat could cause an issue. Long shot - are all the Hive components upto date re their software version? If the receiver hasn't been changed perhaps it needs an update?

Perhaps the timing of the internet disconnection either occurs when 1) your HW cylinder stat signals "I'm hot enough - stop the supply" - this should extinguish the burner but the pump keeps working or 2) after the pump overrun completes. This is when the boiler runs for a while after the HW stat has signalled stop and cools down the heat exchanger.

Do you get the same issue when your CH is on and then turned off? Again, the pump overrun should occur.

Is the boiler power feed on the same house circuit as the router? Although the router isn't restarting

Is the router close to the boiler?

If the router wifi is turned off do you get the same issue?

It's a mystery as Toyah would say.

Does you router produce any error stats, FEC’s, CRC’s and the like ? REIN interference often shows itself as heavy FEC errors.

BUT, that yours *appears* to be dropping at a set time , a fair while after the heating has started, makes me think it might be something else. Does the hive system do a massive upload at that time ?

Could you switch off the power to the heating at the fuse board, and leave it off for duration of the ‘witching hour’ ? This could rule the heating.

So the short RJ11 cable has resulted in no drop out today, very small sample but a positive start.

The dropout happening part way through the schedule seems to point to it happening when the hot water goes off midway through the schedule, once the tank has filled up and the boiler decides it's no longer needed. I don't know if it would do the same with the heating, as it's only been happening during the summer.

The boiler is not that close to the router, they're probably about 3 metres apart at opposite ends of the kitchen.

Not that I think it makes a difference, but I don't actually connect to the Sky WiFi as I have a deco mesh in place which is what I connect all my wireless devices to.

I did a test with my boiler off at the power for 48 hours and no dropouts at all in that period so it is definitely the boiler or Hive causing it.

If the shorter cable has solved it then I'll be very happy, just can't figure out why it has only started to happen since the new hub was set up when it is seemingly the boiler itself causing it.

I wonder if the demand to heat the tank is only about 30 minutes which is why it lands in the middle of the 1hr window.

Why not set 3 schedules of 20 minutes each with a 10 minute gap between them and see what happens....

Is the DHW being heated by system boiler (gas or oil?), or an electric element in the tank?

Edited by mbames (Tue 22-Aug-23 13:43:52)

Ah well, that joy was short lived. Drop out happened again today at 17:58.

I could try the different schedules, but assume the same would happen each time the boiler clicks on or off.

I have a standard gas, non combi boiler.

Where is the mini thermostat in relation to the sky router? Also what is the microfilter setup; plug in ones or faceplated ?

A good few metres away and plugin.

have you got some spare microfiters available ?

To me it could be a slow opening contact, this causing arcing and thus radio interference which being picked up by your router wiring.

Try listening to a MW radio, tuned between stations, close to the boiler, programmer etc in turn.

This is similar to the interference you can get from flashing Christmas Tree lights, or a failing fluorescent light tube.

Cheers!

Yup, I'm going to give that a try thanks.

I guess the question is, assuming that is the case - how do I resolve it? I can't just move the boiler and router further apart as they are both fixed points. Is it a case of fixing/moving my master socket to then avoid the interference?

We need to confirm the source.

How old is your boiler, pump and cylinder stat? Do you have a pump within your boiler or is it separate and located say in a airing cupboard?

It has been narrowed down to the boiler turning off, but in my case, the turn off has several steps.

1) The cylinder stat says "I'm hot enough" - and this signals the boiler to extinguish the flame.
2) The boiler keeps power to the pump for approximately 1 minute to allow it to push unheated water through the system to cool the heat exchanger.
3) The boiler turns the pump off

Does your boiler/system have overrun? If so, there are distinct events that occur at different times - the cylinder stat saying enough - and the boiler turning off the pump.

If it has overrun then does the line disconnect when the stat says "enough", or the pump turning off?

If it doesn't have overrun, then what happens if you set a water schedule of 15 mins? By setting the schedule to 15 mins, the cylinder may still be calling for heat when the timer knocks the boiler off. This takes the cylinder stat out of the equation because it is not the trigger for the boiler to be turned off. Apologies if you have already tried this.