Mislead by Orange Salesman & now stuck with unreliable speed

Hi there,
Back in december I decided to change from Plusnet to Orange as I have a mobile phone with them and I saw that they have LLU at my exchange (Gants Hill). The move was mainly due to the poor & erratic speeds I was experiencing with Plusnet because of them using the BT IPstream product and also poor customer service which got even worse when I asked to leave them, but thats a different story.
When I spoke to the Orange Salesman, he ran through all the benefits of Orange Broadband and becuse of all the problems I had with the IPStream on Plusnet, I asked him to clarify that I would be put on their LLU system. He confirmed that this would be the case and that there would be no IP Profile etc applied to the line, so if my router disconnects and reconnects, I would always get the maximum speed possible without it being reduced by the exchange if it happens frequently etc.
I though great and signed up (as I was due to also get £100 cashback which has also mysteriously gone missing).
The migration day came and I was migrated over with over a day of downtime for some reason and I immediately noticed that the speed was no better than on Plusnet and if anything was a lot more erratic and generally slower!
The speeds seem to vary drastically depending on the time of day, sometimes dropping as low as 500k when I do a speed check, even though my router constantly connects at 6000k+ without the connection dropping out for weeks at a time.
As I was very busy in December, I did not get chance to speak to Orange technical about the problem until January. When I did speak to them, I was a bit shocked when one of our friendly chaps from india told me that I was not on their LLU product, but the IPStream product. He said this was not an issue and went on through his script of saying that it was my Sky box & extension wiring etc causing the problems. I explained to him that my Router was plugged directly into an ADSL Faceplate that a BT engineer gave me when I had problems a few years ago (which turned out to be a loose wire at the exchange). The extension wiring then comes off the back of the faceplate which is completely filtered away from the ADSL signal.

Everytime I speak to Orange customer services, I constantly get fobbed off with them telling me to do BT speed tests at various times of the day (as if I have nothing else to do) then get back to them once have done a few. I have done loads now and they just tell me to do more!
I have almost given up with them now as I get nowhere everytime I call.
I am pretty sure that it is not my line causing the problems and it is purely a capacity issue at the exchange. I have attached the router stats for you to have a look at. I live over a mile from the exchange so know im not going to get super fast connection speeds.
According to the BT Speed checker website, my IP Profile is 5500k
So my question is, do the line stats look OK and do you think I have any chance of getting anywhere with Orange regarding the fact they told me I was going to be on LLU, but put me on IPStream?

Line Stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6016 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 39.6 dB 22.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.5 dB 19.0 dB

Thanks for any advice you can give
Paul.

Have you any proof that you were to be put on LLU? I'd have thought that's a get out of jail free card if you have.

In reply to a post by john2007:

Have you any proof that you were to be put on LLU? I'd have thought that's a get out of jail free card if you have.

No unfortunately, it was all verbal over the telephone. I suppose I could ask them to check back on the telephone recording but that might be lost like the cashback I was due!

Did you do all the agreeing by phone?

If so then it will have been recorded,so if you can get high enough up the complaints ladder you should be able either to get moved to LLU or be allowed to leave without penalty, as the phone recording will show they are in breach of contract.

If you can get to that stage, I advise to to get a MAC and leave. They might tell you you can't but I don't think they could force you to stay at this stage.

Look at this as well. There are several far better LLU ISPs and LLU resellers on that exchange, that you could ask about in "Which ISP?" Only problem may be if you want the cheapest possible deal!

Having said all that, you definitely still have some sort of line problem. I would expect a much higher connection speed than your current 6016kbps. Somewhere between 6500 and 7500kbps. Whatever it is is unlikely to be solved by a move to LLU, where you could expect over 8Mbps and perhaps approaching 11Mbps if the line was right There is no obvious IPStream congestion at that exchange.

I suggest you try connecting with an ordinary filter through the tests socket, on the wall at the back in this pic, and see what the stats are from there. There won't be any immediate increase in download speed even if the stats are better, so don't bother with speed tests.

Do you use a plug-in extension to connect the router to the faceplate, or just the short ADSL cable from the router? If you use a plug-in extension that could very well be the problem, so try without it even if that is inconvenient. Have you got a phone-connected burglar alarm? Have you got a Sky TV box?

Pity. Typically a 40dB attenuation is just on the limit for a maximum (ADSL1) sync of 8128kbps, so your line might be able to sync higher.

I think a formal letter/e-mail of complaint to Orange is in order. See how they respond to your claim that LLU was agreed.

Due to interruptions my previous post was started but not finished while the two of you conversed, but the meat still stands .

Yes, I agree John. A formal letter rather than phoning or raising a ticket. But do you think he should move anyway, like I do, unless cost is a major factor?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Did you do all the agreeing by phone?

If so then it will have been recorded,so if you can get high enough up the complaints ladder you should be able either to get moved to LLU or be allowed to leave without penalty, as the phone recording will show they are in breach of contract.

If you can get to that stage, I advise to to get a MAC and leave. They might tell you you can't but I don't think they could force you to stay at this stage.

Look at this as well. There are several far better LLU ISPs and LLU resellers on that exchange, that you could ask about in "Which ISP?" Only problem may be if you want the cheapest possible deal!

Having said all that, you definitely still have some sort of line problem. I would expect a much higher connection speed than your current 6016kbps. Somewhere between 6500 and 7500kbps. Whatever it is is unlikely to be solved by a move to LLU, where you could expect over 8Mbps and perhaps approaching 11Mbps if the line was right There is no obvious IPStream congestion at that exchange.

I suggest you try connecting with an ordinary filter through the tests socket, on the wall at the back in this pic, and see what the stats are from there. There won't be any immediate increase in download speed even if the stats are better, so don't bother with speed tests.

Do you use a plug-in extension to connect the router to the faceplate, or just the short ADSL cable from the router? If you use a plug-in extension that could very well be the problem, so try without it even if that is inconvenient. Have you got a phone-connected burglar alarm? Have you got a Sky TV box?

I agree that a formal letter will be the best way forward to the head of customer services, explaining the situation and inviting them to listen to the conversation. I also have a telephone line with them that is also tied to the 18 month contract. I will see what their response is.

Regarding the line issue, I have never connected at more than 7200k I think was the highest when I was on O2 LLU about a year ago. I had no problems with them and regret leaving to be honest. I never got less than 6500k download speeds even during the evening peak. So I am surprised to hear that you think with my line attenuation I could be getting up to 11MB in perfect conditions. I am not complaining however!

The NTE5 Master socket where the line comes in from the street is in the front bedroom, then the secondary wiring comes from there to downstairs where there is a Sky box and normal telephone/answer machine plugged into a secondary wall socket. On my old setup I had a normal NTE5 faceplate in the front bedroom and the the modem plugged into the faceplate of that using a micro filter.
One of the Orange tech support guys suggested that my downstairs setup & sky box was causing the problems, as I had a microfilter plugged into the wall socket downstairs and from that a splitter on the voice side to split the telephone & sky box. He advised me to change it so I have the splitter plugged into the wall socket then 2 micro filters plugged into that (one for the sky box & one for the telephone). I did this, but no improvement, still roughly 6000k connection speed but between 500k and 5500k download speeds.
With my new setup, I have used the ADSL faceplate that I had spare that the BT engineer gave me and plugged the modem into that using the short grey rj45 cable. The filtered extension wiring comes from there straight to the downstairs wall socket where the splitter for the telephone & sky box are with no micro filter as I understand it is not required with the ADSL faceplate on the master socket. Result: Speeds the same as the previous setup.

I have done what you suggested and removed the ADSL faceplate and plugged the micro filter straight into the master test socket upstairs. I am using what I believe are high quality BT branded micro filters.
Here are the new line stats when plugged into the test socket (Netgear DGN1000):

ADSL Link/Downstream/Upstream
Connection Speed/6240 Kbps/448 Kbps
Line Attenuation/39.7 dB/23.0 dB
Noise Margin/6.5 dB/20.0 dB

I have a spare Linksys/Cisco WAG120N router that I have just tried and that gets a downspeed connection speed of 6210Kbps down & 448Kbps up when plugged into the master test socket. But it does not seem to give any other line stats so seems at bit useless. I have now gone back to the Orange supplied Netgear DGN1000 as it gives slightly more info.
As you can see it is still 1000k less than what I was getting with O2 last year, could the problem be elsewhere?

Thanks

In reply to a post by john2007:

Pity. Typically a 40dB attenuation is just on the limit for a maximum (ADSL1) sync of 8128kbps, so your line might be able to sync higher.

I think a formal letter/e-mail of complaint to Orange is in order. See how they respond to your claim that LLU was agreed.

The most I have ever got is 7200kbps (or thereabouts) on O2 LLU last year, since going on Plusnet/Orange it has been about 6400kbps at most. I will reite to them and see what they say.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But do you think he should move anyway, like I do, unless cost is a major factor?

Orange LLU is perfectly adequate, if he can get it, but he won't get more than 8-9 Meg Sync, remembering that his attn. will increase.

The issue here is that he was put on IPStream, contrary to the verbal agreement to be put on LLU. Unless he can prove this, he will get no better than he is currently getting on IPStream.