Bethere strange sync happenings

I moved over to BE about two years ago and was perfectly happy with my 16mb conection straight out of the box over my old Enta 8mb conection.

I returned home from work this evening to find I was syncing at 10mb and the line was dropping every 30 seconds or so, telephoned BE support who did some tests with the router in the test socket and also got me to do a silent line test, no problems found. They then said my profile is only 9mb, to which i replied (as above), he checked my history and confirmed I had infact atained the 16mb d/l speed over the two years and could not explain. He reduced my profile even further to 8mb to stop the disconections and said they would monitor for 24 hrs.

Has anyone got any ideas ?? (I have swapped the router out for another still the same)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

I moved over to BE about two years ago and was perfectly happy with my 16mb connection straight out of the box over my old Enta 8mb connection.

I returned home from work this evening to find I was syncing at 10mb and the line was dropping every 30 seconds or so, telephoned BE support who did some tests with the router in the test socket and also got me to do a silent line test, no problems found. They then said my profile is only 9mb, to which i replied (as above), he checked my history and confirmed I had in-fact attained the 16mb d/l speed over the two years and could not explain. He reduced my profile even further to 8mb to stop the disconnections and said they would monitor for 24 hrs.

Has anyone got any ideas ?? (I have swapped the router out for another still the same)

TBH it sounds like a developing line fault or a fault with BE equipment (line card,ect) at your local exchange,perish the thought, from what others have been posting of various forums BE seem over reluctant to call out openreach, even when it would seem that a there is a fault, they would sooner try and just hide the fault instead by bumping up noise margins ect which to me would not be an acceptable solution,

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

Has anyone got any ideas ?? (I have swapped the router out for another still the same)

Please post your line stats reported by your BEBox.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

TBH it sounds like a developing line fault or a fault with BE equipment (line card,ect) at your local exchange,perish the thought, from what others have been posting of various forums BE seem over reluctant to call out openreach, even when it would seem that a there is a fault, they would sooner try and just hide the fault instead by bumping up noise margins ect which to me would not be an acceptable solution,

Absolute tosh. BE were more than happy to call out openreach to fix my fault and did so vey quickly. Another poster to this forum had the same experience I did.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Absolute tosh. BE were more than happy to call out openreach to fix my fault and did so vey quickly. Another poster to this forum had the same experience I did.

BE called out and paid for an OpenReach SFI for me last June, when my line dropped every 10 seconds. The line degredation was found to be faults in the street wiring, so BE got their money back from OpenReach.

I'd suggest the OP should be posting in the BE specific ThinkBroadband forum to start with.

Easy to quote from the past, it's what the current state of play is that matters here not what happened last year or even last month, things can & do change, if a customer who has enjoyed a stable sync of 16mbits + for 2 yrs in this case suddenly is only getting 10mbit and is disconnecting frequently then it's fairly obvious to me and i would say plenty of others that there is some kind of fault and unless there has been changes made (including ruling out router and filters) with the customers own wiring ect then it stands to reason its bt line plant from exchange to customers premises or the isp's kit, but instead of investigating that be tech support would sooner cap the connection by raising the snr level, to see if it still drops connection or not, so lets suppose it stabilizes it , then what?
is that all they are gonna do?
leave it like that & say it's now solved??
when all they have done is hidden the underlying fault , not good enough I'm afraid

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 08-Sep-11 22:23:14)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

if a customer who has enjoyed a stable sync of 16mbits + for 2 yrs in this case suddenly is only getting 10mbit and is disconnecting frequently then it's fairly obvious to me and i would say plenty of others that there is some kind of fault

...or something else. Hard to say without line stats.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

if a customer who has enjoyed a stable sync of 16mbits + for 2 yrs in this case suddenly is only getting 10mbit and is disconnecting frequently then it's fairly obvious to me and i would say plenty of others that there is some kind of fault

...or something else. Hard to say without line stats.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8816 kbps 1313 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.0 db 14.2 db
Noise Margin 5.9 db 6.9 db

was 3.6db yesterday

Stats are from my Netgear not the Bebox

Edited by deleted (Thu 08-Sep-11 22:56:06)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

Stats are from my Netgear not the Bebox

Sorry, can't help then.

So were you using the Netgear when things went wrong?

If so, I would normally say to try the Be Box, but that may not show any difference if your line has been manually set by support. Worth a try though.

It may just be support took you off a 3dB noise margin. But even on 6dB you should be getting a lot more than 8816kbps.

I swaped it to the Netgear this evenining before the call to BE, so as to determin if it was the Bebox at fault. Unfortunately as my line is being monitored over 24hrs I am reluctant to change it back to the Bebox.

The fault continued wether Bebox or Netgear, its pluged directly to the main bt socket (I have no extensions) and the house phone is disconected. It has been stable at 8mb ever since

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

The fault continued wether Bebox or Netgear, its pluged directly to the main bt socket (I have no extensions) and the house phone is disconected. It has been stable at 8mb ever since

That's all I was trying to establish .

Let's hope it gets fixed soon.

Ok, just to rule out anything else your side , after the 24hr monitoring has finished if you ain't done so already >>> try swapping the filter and adsl lead ( from filter to router) and just on the off chance that you are connecting via wireless to the router can you try wired (via Ethernet cable) <<<
Having done that and assuming no change in speed or stability then you have done all that you can at your side as for your stats nothing obvious there and as said already with that attenuation you should be seeing a higher sync than you currently are , just one thought you are set to use the correct adsl mode (adsl2+ ?)
Looking like a job for openreach,

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 08-Sep-11 23:32:27)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Ok, just to rule out anything else your side , after the 24hr monitoring has finished if you ain't done so already >>> try swapping the filter and adsl lead ( from filter to router) and just on the off chance that you are connecting via wireless to the router can you try wired (via Ethernet cable) <<<

Yep all done already, before the initial call to BE

Lets see what they come up with at 7pm Tommorrow

In reply to a post by tommy45:

just on the off chance that you are connecting via wireless to the router can you try wired

Connecting a PC by wireless cannot remotely affect the Sync Speed of router wired to ADSL.

can anyone make head nor tail of these.


# adslctl info --show
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1313 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8816 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 7.0
Attn(dB): 31.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 19.4 12.4
Max(Kbps): 11504 1313
Rate (Kbps): 8816 1313
G.dmt framing
K: 83(0) 38
R: 14 0
S: 1 1
D: 96 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 60 16
B: 82 37
M: 1 1
T: 3 3
R: 14 0
S: 0.3245 0.9934
L: 2391 306
D: 96 1
Counters
SF: 4333218 4350977
SFErr: 1155 86
RS: 857977192 0
RSCorr: 97638451 0
RSUnCorr: 16347 0

HEC: 1111 28
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1447417733 215390007
Data Cells: 299968334 14575162
Drop Cells: 2162
Bit Errors: 0 2923

ES: 3531 73
SES: 592 0
UAS: 962 56
AS: 69615

INP: 2.24 0.00
PER: 16.06 16.39
delay: 7.78 0.24
OR: 32.86 10.73

Bitswap: 15309 25




# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1313 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8816
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.5 7.0
Attn(dB): 31.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 19.4 12.4
Max(Kbps): 11590 1313
Rate (Kbps): 8816 1313
G.dmt framing
K: 83(0) 38
R: 14 0
S: 1 1
D: 96 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 60 16
B: 82 37
M: 1 1
T: 3 3
R: 14 0
S: 0.3245 0.9934
L: 2391 306
D: 96 1
Counters
SF: 4419750 4437813
SFErr: 1155 86
RS: 875110532 0
RSCorr: 98853632 0
RSUnCorr: 16347 0

HEC: 1111 28
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1476310544 219692747
Data Cells: 300047703 14624723
Drop Cells: 2162
Bit Errors: 0 2923

ES: 3531 73
SES: 592 0
UAS: 962 56
AS: 71006

INP: 2.24 0.00
PER: 16.06 16.39
delay: 7.78 0.24
OR: 32.86 10.73

Bitswap: 15580 25

Total time = 21 hours 18 min 48 sec
SF = 4680346
CRC = 57297
LOS = 26
LOF = 234
ES = 3531
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 18 min 48 sec
SF = 4680346
CRC = 57297
LOS = 26
LOF = 234
ES = 3531
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 48 sec
SF = 14173
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56065
CRC = 1153
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 18
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Showtime Drop Reason: 8000
Last Retrain Reason: 8000
#

How long between the two sets of stats? (It's a pity you cut the final time analyis off the first).

All that's obvious to me apart from what we already knew about the sync is that your downstream interleaving depth is 96.

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

can anyone make head nor tail of these.


# adslctl info --show
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1313 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8816 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.4 7.0
Attn(dB): 31.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 19.4 12.4
Max(Kbps): 11504 1313
Rate (Kbps): 8816 1313
G.dmt framing
K: 83(0) 38
R: 14 0
S: 1 1
D: 96 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 60 16
B: 82 37
M: 1 1
T: 3 3
R: 14 0
S: 0.3245 0.9934
L: 2391 306
D: 96 1
Counters
SF: 4333218 4350977
SFErr: 1155 86
RS: 857977192 0
RSCorr: 97638451 0
RSUnCorr: 16347 0

HEC: 1111 28
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1447417733 215390007
Data Cells: 299968334 14575162
Drop Cells: 2162
Bit Errors: 0 2923

ES: 3531 73
SES: 592 0
UAS: 962 56
AS: 69615

INP: 2.24 0.00
PER: 16.06 16.39
delay: 7.78 0.24
OR: 32.86 10.73

Bitswap: 15309 25
# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1313 Kbps, Downstream rate = 8816
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.5 7.0
Attn(dB): 31.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 19.4 12.4
Max(Kbps): 11590 1313
Rate (Kbps): 8816 1313
G.dmt framing
K: 83(0) 38
R: 14 0
S: 1 1
D: 96 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 60 16
B: 82 37
M: 1 1
T: 3 3
R: 14 0
S: 0.3245 0.9934
L: 2391 306
D: 96 1
Counters
SF: 4419750 4437813
SFErr: 1155 86
RS: 875110532 0
RSCorr: 98853632 0
RSUnCorr: 16347 0

HEC: 1111 28
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1476310544 219692747
Data Cells: 300047703 14624723
Drop Cells: 2162
Bit Errors: 0 2923

ES: 3531 73
SES: 592 0
UAS: 962 56
AS: 71006

INP: 2.24 0.00
PER: 16.06 16.39
delay: 7.78 0.24
OR: 32.86 10.73

Bitswap: 15580 25

Total time = 21 hours 18 min 48 sec
SF = 4680346
CRC = 57297
LOS = 26
LOF = 234
ES = 3531
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 18 min 48 sec
SF = 4680346
CRC = 57297
LOS = 26
LOF = 234
ES = 3531
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 48 sec
SF = 14173
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56065
CRC = 1153
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 18
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56002
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Showtime Drop Reason: 8000
Last Retrain Reason: 8000
#

Well i have highlighted 2 factors that certainly ain't gonna help you get a higher sync rate INP inpulse noise protection is enabled on on the downstream and set to 2.24 and presumably also on fastpath too ? who set the INP to it's current value, or was it set like like before you had these issues?
From personal experience that setting is the default setting used by be, on interleave, if they set it at 1 or even disabled it your sync will increase that is almost certain,, on my line with inp set to 2 sync rate is lowest if set to 1, it gives a slightly higher rate than when on fast path & inp disabled ?? also there is very little bitswapping happening with the upstream, it ideally should be somewhere near the same as the downsteam

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 09-Sep-11 15:33:58)

Well i have highlighted 2 factors that certainly ain't gonna help you get a higher sync rate INP inpulse noise protection is enabled on on the downstream and set to 2.24 and presumably also on fastpath too ? who set the INP to it's current value, or was it set like like before you had these issues?
From personal experience that setting is the default setting used by be, on interleave, if they set it at 1 or even disabled it your sync will increase that is almost certain,, on my line with inp set to 2 sync rate is lowest if set to 1, it gives a slightly higher rate than when on fast path & inp disabled ?? also there is very little bitswapping happening with the upstream, it ideally should be somewhere near the same as the downsteam


TBH its taken me all morning just to figure out how to get these stats using telnet

INP ? I havent got a clue what that is, is it something I can change in my router settings ?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How long between the two sets of stats? (It's a pity you cut the final time analyis off the first).

All that's obvious to me apart from what we already knew about the sync is that your downstream interleaving depth is 96.

The stats where done one after the other they are different types of stats.

In laymans terms what is an interleaving depth of 96

INP = Impulse noise protection AKA service profile 1 & 2 This is set by Be,and you cannot switch it off via your router, but you can ring them and ask for sp1 for INP to be switched off if you want true fastpath for online gaming in your account area of the be web site what is the profile set to currently ? is gaming mode on or off?

it maybe that when be tech support increased the target SNR value they also enabled/increased the INP too , or it although unlikely has changed automatically,

the netgear that you are using would appear to have a broadcom chipset so no need for INP set at 2 or even 1 really for some people with a similar attenuation to yours

Some further info...kitz

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 09-Sep-11 17:29:19)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

INP = Impulse noise protection AKA service profile 1 & 2 This is set by Be,and you cannot switch it off via your router, but you can ring them and ask for sp1 for INP to be switched off if you want true fastpath for online gaming in your account area of the be web site what is the profile set to currently ? is gaming mode on or off?

it maybe that when be tech support increased the target SNR value they also enabled/increased the INP too , or it although unlikely has changed automatically,

the netgear that you are using would appear to have a broadcom chipset so no need for INP set at 2 or even 1 really for some people with a similar attenuation to yours

Some further info...kitz

Gaming mode is turned off, TBH I rarely play online games anyway.
I am currently posting these problems in the BE* forums and it realy sounds like the staff dont giv a s**t there.


Ps. Thanks very much tommy45, you have been more than helpful so far

Edited by deleted (Fri 09-Sep-11 17:54:42)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

INP = Impulse noise protection AKA service profile 1 & 2 This is set by Be,and you cannot switch it off via your router, but you can ring them and ask for sp1 for INP to be switched off if you want true fastpath for online gaming in your account area of the be web site what is the profile set to currently ? is gaming mode on or off?

it maybe that when be tech support increased the target SNR value they also enabled/increased the INP too , or it although unlikely has changed automatically,

the netgear that you are using would appear to have a broadcom chipset so no need for INP set at 2 or even 1 really for some people with a similar attenuation to yours

Some further info...kitz

Gaming mode is turned off, TBH I rarely play online games anyway.
I am currently posting these problems in the BE* forums and it realy sounds like the staff dont giv a s**t there.


Ps. Thanks very much tommy45, you have been more than helpful so far

well if you don't use your connection for online games or other latency sensitive applications then your ideal line config would be service profile 1 =INP-1 with the interleave depth and delay as low as is possible , and of course the target SNRM set to 6db or 3db ( with a fault free line)

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 09-Sep-11 18:11:29)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

In laymans terms what is an interleaving depth of 96

Each packet of data is split over 64 packets for transmission, and reassembled by the modem. That's why latency is higher on interleaved compared to fast path.

Your upstream is depth 1, which is fast path, as the data packet is split into 1, so to speak.

Netgears always (incorrectly) report just the upstream, as in "Channel: Fast".

Kitz has this good explanation of interleaving.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 09-Sep-11 18:12:15)

Down sync is low (54% of the theoretical maximum).
You are on ADSL2+
SNR is good.
Attenuation looks normal.
Output power looks normal.
There are lots of error seconds (downstream).
There are Lots of FEC errors.
There are a few uncorrected FEC errors.

In a nutshell, you are getting far too many errors, which is probably keeping your Sync down from an expected 15 Meg.

Hi Guys, So I work for an ISP... and we work closely with BE.

So what I have gathered is that your connection is dropping sync and your speeds have dropped 6meg from 16 to 10. You're connection was not stable wile synced at the slower 10 meg and BE could not find a fault with the line itself.

This to me means a few things, first is that their line tests did not detect a fault, this does not mean there isn't one. They have dropped your sync speeds to what seems to be ADSL+ with a max of 8meg. This is considered a stable profile and is ususally used to stabilise troubled connection where the issue is not always obvious. This should give you a stable connection wile they monitor the line, the line monitoring (usually 24 hours) detects any layer 1 issues. noise on the line in particular frequenceys etc.

Moving forward I would suggest you work with BE to rule out any possible hardware issue, you have already performed the quiet line test which was clear, and you have an alternative router so you could try that and put a new filter and DSL cable on the line too. If you do this then you have proved CPE is clear of faults and BE can justify a special faults investigator to investigate your line. IF BE are monitoring the connection then it is counterproductive to disconnect anything or change the router at this point as this is void the monitoring results, so disscuss this with BE before you go ahead with the hardware swap.

Also remember if BE cannot find a fault and they send an engineer out without checking equiptment or investigating other options first Openreach may well charge them over £450 + VAT just for wasting their time.
I'm not saying your issue shouldn't be fixed, i'm just saying that there are diognostic procedures that need to be followed to rule out particular issues before a SFI is sent out. Remember if the SFI finds that something on the end users prommisis is causing the issues such as a faulty router of something as simple as a doggy filter (and yes hardware can fail including 2grand Cisco's) depending on your contract you might be liable for the OP charge.

I guess my point here is I cannot see any of BE diognostics so have no real idea what could be the issue at this point, it could be a number of things from a BT line fault to a hardware issue with CPE or even some kind of outside interference. But what I can tell you is that a SFI engineer with not fix everything and sometimes they just do nothing in my experience, its better to collect the data rule out any potential onsite issues and move on from there.

In response to FAST PATH and INP2 / 1 or even NO INP, well each and every scenario is different. Some router chipsets just don't work well with INP2 (only ever normally very old chipsets) and some (mostly new routers) prefer INP2. Also you must consider the line length of the PSTN line you are running your broadband over and its copper quality. All of these factors play a big part of the type of speeds you achieve and stability of the connection. A stable connection is always much better than a fast one that continuously drops out and it is always a trade off with speed a stability. So if you have a stable connection, it could be worth requesting your ISP trys to find the best configuration for your line. Also worth noting this is done manually with BE services but automatically with BT services.

I hope this has helped.

Sal

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How long between the two sets of stats?

23 mins.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

(It's a pity you cut the final time analysis off the first).

You don't need it; the AS counts measure Uptime (somehow)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Well i have highlighted 2 factors that certainly ain't gonna help you get a higher sync rate INP inpulse noise protection is enabled on on the downstream and set to 2.24 and presumably also on fastpath too ? who set the INP to it's current value, or was it set like like before you had these issues?

Wrong, it's interleaved. INP is Impulse Noise Protection, another form of interleaving too.

From personal experience that setting is the default setting used by be, on interleave, if they set it at 1 or even disabled it your sync will increase that is almost certain,, on my line with inp set to 2 sync rate is lowest if set to 1, it gives a slightly higher rate than when on fast path & inp disabled ?? also there is very little bitswapping happening with the upstream, it ideally should be somewhere near the same as the downsteam

The bitswapping occurs when there is a lot of noise interference on the line - no wonder you have experience of it!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How long between the two sets of stats?

23 mins.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

(It's a pity you cut the final time analysis off the first).

You don't need it; the AS counts measure Uptime (somehow)

Neat! Thanks .

Low and behold, as expected no telephone call from BE* as promised by 7pm. infact its now 9pm, speed still the same.

To be frank, Ive lost all faith 0% customer service


So I phoned them to be told they would like to send me a new router out in the post so that they can do another 24hr test to see how that performs.

Luckily enough Ive got a brand new bebox in the cupboard that is still sealed in the packaging, so I told them not to bother as im going to plug that in now an see where we go from here. (another new microfilter and cable also)

Promised another call by 12 noon tommorrow (we will see)

apparently they have had problems with outgoing calls this evening hence they havnt rang me (yeah right) they must think I came down the river on a piece of toast.


back to square one

Bebox stats as requested looks worse than the netgear

Uptime:
0 days, 0:43:33
DSL Type:
G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:
1,338 / 8,024
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]:
0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:
12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:
14.0 / 29.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:
7.0 / 7.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):
TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
35 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):
0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):
40 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):
3 / 2,421,525
CRC Errors (Up/Down):
3 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down):
0 / 0

Seems that the stats blow a hole in your assertion that "He reduced my profile even further to 8mb to stop the disconections".
What profile?

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

Bebox stats as requested looks worse than the netgear

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
35 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0

Loss of signal shows the line was interrupted. As you say you're connected to the test socket, then it looks like a BT OpenReach problem.

Very similar to my issue last summer, and BE called out an SFI, who found problems in the 1972 cabling just outside my block of flats - old style jelly crimps that come apart by themselves (nearly 40 years old). As SAL stated, you can't expect BE to risk £450+VAT from BT Openreach without doing all the tests that they can.

Its good you're using the test socket, with a new filter and router, and hopefully BE's monitoring will pick up the problem, and then they can order an SFI to visit. The problem then is for the SFI to find the problem.

Is there any sign of FTTC or cable in your street?

Edited by jchamier (Sat 10-Sep-11 00:03:05)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Seems that the stats blow a hole in your assertion that "He reduced my profile even further to 8mb to stop the disconections".
What profile?

I think you might need to explain what your getting at, youve lost me

Your BEBox is syncing at a different rate to your Netgear - you're not on a fixed profile.

I guess your connection is being affected by noise, and is limited by the target noise margin.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Your BEBox is syncing at a different rate to your Netgear - you're not on a fixed profile.

I guess your connection is being affected by noise, and is limited by the target noise margin.

I see where you are coming from now, no the 9mb profile was mentioned when I origionaly reported the fault, which I found strange as I always presumed the closer you were to the exchange the higher your d/l speed, when be tech mentioned the 9mb profile I found it strange as had been till yesterday downloading at 15/16mb

I dont know as its all a bit above my pay scale.

All I can say is that its been fine for two years as I do quite a bit of d/l ing from newsgroups and always had a good speed.

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Your BEBox is syncing at a different rate to your Netgear - you're not on a fixed profile.

I guess your connection is being affected by noise, and is limited by the target noise margin.

I see where you are coming from now, no the 9mb profile was mentioned when I origionaly reported the fault, which I found strange as I always presumed the closer you were to the exchange the higher your d/l speed, when be tech mentioned the 9mb profile I found it strange as had been till yesterday downloading at 15/16mb

I dont know as its all a bit above my pay scale.

All I can say is that its been fine for two years as I do quite a bit of d/l ing from newsgroups and always had a good speed.

Have you bought any new electric equipment which may have increased the noise?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

Bebox stats as requested looks worse than the netgear

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
35 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0

Loss of signal shows the line was interrupted. As you say you're connected to the test socket, then it looks like a BT OpenReach problem.

Very similar to my issue last summer, and BE called out an SFI, who found problems in the 1972 cabling just outside my block of flats - old style jelly crimps that come apart by themselves (nearly 40 years old). As SAL stated, you can't expect BE to risk £450+VAT from BT Openreach without doing all the tests that they can.

Its good you're using the test socket, with a new filter and router, and hopefully BE's monitoring will pick up the problem, and then they can order an SFI to visit. The problem then is for the SFI to find the problem.

Is there any sign of FTTC or cable in your street?

I had the same problem about 3 years ago when on Enta adsl max, Bt replaced all the cableing outside my house also, all the way from the master socket out.

No new electrical equipment, seriuosly nothing has changed. Just happened overnight

Pity. Sounds like a BT problem (not BE).

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

No new electrical equipment, seriuosly nothing has changed. Just happened overnight

I tell a lie, I have just bought a new 2TB hard drive but thats pluged into the blueray player 2 rooms away and is normaly turned of unless watching a HD mkv file.

Since when have BT openreach been charging isp's £450.00 if they can't find a fault their side of things or if the fault is customers side? As far as i know a normal SFI visit was around £160.00 only a couple of years ago, can't of been hiked up that much surely,can it?
I have little faith in remote testing/monitoring by BT or isp's in general, as those tests will only identify certain types of faults, the normal PTSN remote test are basically useless, unless the line is down or similar obvious faults and that view is shared by plenty of OR engineers I'm sure

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Since when have BT openreach been charging isp's £450.00 if they can't find a fault their side of things or if the fault is customers side? As far as i know a normal SFI visit was around £160.00 only a couple of years ago, can't of been hiked up that much surely,can it?
I have little faith in remote testing/monitoring by BT or isp's in general, as those tests will only identify certain types of faults, the normal PTSN remote test are basically useless, unless the line is down or similar obvious faults and that view is shared by plenty of OR engineers I'm sure

This Mornings stats


Uptime:
0 days, 9:30:39
DSL Type:
G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:
1,338 / 8,024
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]:
0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:
12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:
14.0 / 29.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:
7.0 / 7.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):
TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):
35 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):
3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):
0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):
0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):
40 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):
8 / 35,073,528
CRC Errors (Up/Down):
8 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down):
4 / 0


I think its the FEC errors that are causing my low sync.

Now bare in mind this is a brand new Bebox straight out of a sealed box, brand new sealed microfilter and brand new cable. Plugged directly into the test socket, there are no extensions in my house just the master socket from which the cable goes directly through the wall cavity (brickwork) to the outside of the house. Numerous silent line tests (dead silence)

It def aint a problem on my end.

Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Sep-11 08:49:08)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

I think its the FEC errors that are causing my low sync.

I disagree. They are corrected errors.

It def aint a problem on my end.

Again, I disagree. The FEC count is indicative of lots of noise on the line between the exchange and your modem. Obviously not something BE can fix.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

I think its the FEC errors that are causing my low sync.

I disagree. They are corrected errors.

It def aint a problem on my end.

Again, I disagree. The FEC count is indicative of lots of noise on the line between the exchange and your modem. Obviously not something BE can fix.

Nor anything that I can fix if between exchange and modem (I think i have ruled out the possibility of it being between point of entry into my house and modem)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

I think its the FEC errors that are causing my low sync.

I disagree. They are corrected errors.

It def aint a problem on my end.

Again, I disagree. The FEC count is indicative of lots of noise on the line between the exchange and your modem. Obviously not something BE can fix.

Nor anything that I can fix if between exchange and modem (I think i have ruled out the possibility of it being between point of entry into my house and modem)

If you want help with identifying where the problem is, this is better off in the BE section of the forum rather than this section.

If you want help with identifying where the problem is, this is better off in the BE section of the forum rather than this section.

I was told that about 3 pages ago, posted it there but was told to delete it as duplicate posting arn't allowed.

If a mod could kindly move the thread to BE

Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Sep-11 10:26:58)

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

If you want help with identifying where the problem is, this is better off in the BE section of the forum rather than this section.

I was told that about 3 pages ago, posted it there but was told to delete it as duplicate posting arn't allowed.

If a mod could kindly move the thread to BE

You weren't told that by a mod.

Mods don't move threads.

No need to make a duplicate post anyway, just start a new thread with your BEBox stats.

Looks like things are starting to move:

Your ticket has been updated - we will replace the tie pairs at the exchange. The physical cables that connect your line to our equipment.

Could anyone enlighten me as to what this actualy means ? have they found a fault ? are the just clutching at straws ?

In reply to a post by simonbuck:

Looks like things are starting to move:

Your ticket has been updated - we will replace the tie pairs at the exchange. The physical cables that connect your line to our equipment.

Could anyone enlighten me as to what this actualy means ? have they found a fault ? are the just clutching at straws ?

Could be either. When your line reaches the exchange they use "tie pairs", to "tie"/connect it to the BE broadband equipment (DSLAM). These can be faulty, normally I expect bad connections inside the plugs at the end.

It certainly means they have seen something isn't right, but whether they know it is the tie pairs or that's a first step, like you checking cables and filters, I don't know.

Thanks RobertoS

They recon It wont happen till Monday/Tuesday so I will just have to wait and see.

Hopefully the engineer will also check the line card maybe even swap it and any filters that are part of it as well,
Well it's a start hopefully it will prove to of been the cause of all this

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 10-Sep-11 13:51:38)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Hopefully the engineer will also check the line card maybe even swap it and any filters that are part of it as well,
Well it's a start hopefully it will prove to of been the cause of all this

The tie pair change happened at about 16:30 Im presuming as every thing went dead for abour 45 mins

However still the same stats on reconection.


Uptime:0 days, 0:31:30
DSL Type:G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:1,321 / 8,797
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]:0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:12.0 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:14.5 / 29.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:7.0 / 7.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):10 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):3 / 1,438,417
CRC Errors (Up/Down):3 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down):1,205 / 0

I should be getting 16000kbps with a throughput of 14160kbps
with 29.6db Attenuation (just like I have for the last 2 years)

Where do I go from here ????

Edit:

oh well back on the phone to BE*

Edited by deleted (Tue 13-Sep-11 18:06:47)

Well the guy from BT has attended, done his investigations and came up with "corrosion in the distribution point at the top of the pole" did what he needed to do, he then rang BE* up and asked to change my pfofile back to normal. The bebox started syncing at 10,200 kbps he told me not to worry it would gradualy get greater over the next half our or so and off he went.

Router is re-syncing every two mins or so (still not fixed as far as im concerned)


Uptime: 0 days, 0:00:19
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,412 / 10,141
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 14.5 / 29.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 4.0 / 5.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 11 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 6 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 9,712
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 5
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 56 / 2

Oh well yet another call to BE* I suppose, and probably another day off work in the pipeline for BT to attend.

Edit:
Just taken a call from BE* Tech, they want to monitor my line again for 24 hours, this is now becoming farcical

Edited by deleted (Thu 15-Sep-11 13:55:07)