General Discussion
  >> ISP Unhappiness


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | [14] | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | (show all)   Print Thread
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Thu 01-Mar-12 08:06:46
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: Fastriver] [link to this post]
 
My take on this is that in fact Orange was responsible for the charge being raised.

The MAC issue is a sideline insomuch as if you had moved with the first MAC (or second if it could have been uses) whomever you had moved to would have had a cease charge. The fact that you could not move with the second MAC is down to BTw (the BT bit that looks after the exchange and line} who were regrading the exchange at the time. BTw are also the ones sending Vivaciti a cease charge of ADSL...caused by Orange....which is normally passed on to the customer.

I suspect your refusal to communicate raised hackles and entrenched positions ensued. My view is that because of the complicated structure of the system with a three ring circus, Vivaciti/BTw/Orange all in the loop it is difficult to understand how it works........and in this instance even more complicated for you to resolve. I can understand why you do not want to pay for something that you feel is not your fault, a simular stance taken by Vivaciti it seems.

I do urge Vivaciti to bite the bullet on this and waive the charge and appreciate that whilst it may not be the fault of Vivaciti....it is not the customers either. Not trying to apply moral blackmail here just some common sense for this out of the ordinary situation that needs resolving...... and save the customer having to go through all the hoops of trying to reclaim the cost off Orange.

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

[email protected]
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 08:37:16
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: Sadoldman] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sadoldman:
The MAC issue is a sideline insomuch as if you had moved with the first MAC (or second if it could have been uses) whomever you had moved to would have had a cease charge.
So you see no difference between Orange being proffered a valid MAC and Orange being proffered an invalid out-of-date MAC?

Surprised cuz the former is intended to facilitate a seamless migration of BB w/out any impact on the line.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Thu 01-Mar-12 10:00:31
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
The crux is that Orange put a cease on the voice line when taking the voice service over. As I see by the facts presented no action or inaction by Vivacity made them do that...that cease on the line is what is causing the grief.

A cease on the voice line automatically causes a cease of the ADSL service on it. Even if the error of the MAC had been spotted a new one could not have been raised at that time because BTw were updating the exchange at the time of request; however a lack of a MAC did not make Orange cease the voice line, they should have taken it over as is.

I do see how confusing it can be to the OP but I can also see the other side of this situation. I just hope that Vivacity can see the merit of resolving this for the sake of the OP.

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

[email protected]
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Mar-12 11:20:23
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: Sadoldman] [link to this post]
 
The cease and reasons why it happened are where no-one, including Vivacitti or end-user can really comment with authority.

We know it was a WLR3 cease, which if taking over a voice service should not be needed anyway, but they may have used it knowing it cancels the ADSL, allowing them to take on the broadband, as a way of resolving what could have been interpreted as a Tagging issue on the line.

For all we know they may have a policy, where by if a losing ISP plays around a consumer, which to Orange this is what it would have looked that, they they use the cease as a way to gain control.

Tag issues are meant to be gaining provider led, so Ofcom is likely to see this as a reasonable move, to stop a provider unfairly holding onto a customer etc etc

A valid mac in the first place, or second time around would have avoided the cease, I am 98% sure of that.

Irrespective of how the charge was raised, the threat of debt collection two weeks after the fact is too fast, and if this was BT or Virgin Media doing the same, they would find various consumer TV shows knocking on the door.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 12:30:22
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
...
Irrespective of how the charge was raised, the threat of debt collection two weeks after the fact is too fast, and if this was BT or Virgin Media doing the same, they would find various consumer TV shows knocking on the door.

I'd agree in general but not it it was triggered in response to I'm no longer going to discuss this message.
Standard User wingco1
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 12:31:45
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
the threat of debt collection two weeks after the fact is too fast,
This was only said after the customer had told them he would not discuss the matter any further, ever. Is it better to inform the customer that doing so would leave Vivaciti with no option but to persue the matter in that way, or to just go ahead at some future date without telling him?
Standard User wingco1
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 12:35:02
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: Sadoldman] [link to this post]
 
I fully concur with the interpretation offered by the honourable gentleman.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Mar-12 14:59:21
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
Fully aware of that, but in business one gets used to prams and teddys, so allowance should be made.

The sum involved was small, and a non-recurring item, it is not like the customer was refusing to talk to them and pay an ongoing bill.

The problems with cease charges are such that some providers factor in a small amount per customer to avoid the bad feeling they can generate if they surface.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Moderator Sadoldman
(moderator) Thu 01-Mar-12 15:17:21
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It should be noted that Vivaciti did supply a valid MAC first time round so we are led to believe. As to the second request that is a bit unclear as to whether it would/could have been possible to raise a valid one at that date of request due to the exchange upgrade....or was that an error?

If it was the policy of Orange to cancel this way it still leaves them the instigator of the cease thus causing the ADSL cease charge. Not sure if Ofcom would see this as reasonable when a valid MAC was originally supplied by Vivaciti so could not reasonably have been accused of hanging on to a customer.
Irrespective of how the charge was raised, the threat of debt collection two weeks after the fact is too fast, and if this was BT or Virgin Media doing the same, they would find various consumer TV shows knocking on the door.

I do feel it wrong for the ISP to have given up on communication so early in the affair, notwithstanding the customers refusal to talk as this action just hardens attitudes on both sides. People in dispute should never refuse to communicate, even if it is to constantly disagree.

Having said all that I say again I do think Vivaciti should bite the bullet on this one even if they feel it unfair.

C'mon Vivaciti, life is unfair... but.sometimes it will be unfair to your advantage.smile

Sadoldman

Just a tad sad..a wee bit old...wink

[email protected]
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 01-Mar-12 15:23:52
Print Post

Re: Cease Fee by Vivaciti


[re: Sadoldman] [link to this post]
 
Valid, but they had apparently used it to do an internal migration, and once submitted it then becomes invalid for use elsewhere.

Exchange upgrade - purely the choice of the ISP to do this. BT Wholesale is not forcing any changes yet.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | [14] | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to