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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 01-Feb-13 21:47:37
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Why did he reboot it? If he's doing that a lot we may have found the problem.

As you can see from RouterStats the margin varies a bit anyway on its way up and down over 24 hours. Often very stable during daylight. There could just have been a bit of noise around, (anywhere between you and the exchange), at the time so if that's gine 15.6dB is fair enough. Are you logging to file, as well as the graphs? I prefer the logs for diagnosis.

I also used to use a 5-second sampling interval. The default can even miss or hardly identify a loss of connection.

The difference at sync time caused by a 3B change is usually roughly 500-750kbps on ADSL and 700-1200kbps on ADSL2+.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.3/15.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(learned) Fri 01-Feb-13 21:53:34
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
He just didn't think of checking the laptop first I think, but I have told him that rebooting the router is now a last resort tongue

Yeah, I agree if the noise margin goes up or down by a couple of decimal points its probably nothing to worry about, and hopefully in time (within 14 days) the DLM should reset my noise margin back to wherever it should be now that the line is free of noise.

I log to both, but its not left on all the time, is there a similar program for Mac? (I use Windows and Mac around 90:10 respectively)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 01-Feb-13 21:56:13
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Not that I know of.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.3/15.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.


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Standard User matthewcl375
(learned) Sat 02-Feb-13 13:51:22
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Due to the poor sync rate that we got due to my dad resetting the router at 7PM, I decided to restart it just now 1:30PM to try and achieve a better rate.

I am now on the even lower rate of 4672Kbps with an SNR margin fluctuating between 15.7 and 15.8

Does anyone have any idea how this could happen and what I should do about it? The reason I restarted it was becau I thought that left by itself the sync rate wouldn't change, and that it needs a reboot to do this. Is this correct?

Thanks

Edited by matthewcl375 (Sat 02-Feb-13 15:17:14)

Standard User David_W
(experienced) Sat 02-Feb-13 15:38:44
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Stop restarting the router - the more you restart it, the more you will convince the DLM that the line is unstable.

As you have previously been advised, you really need to get the ISP to reset the target noise margin to the default and let the line retrain. If you are, as we suspect, on the old 20CN DSL Max system, you will find it takes somewhere between a long time and never to lose the excessive noise margin (and possibly unnecessary interleaving) without that reset.

It is true that an ADSL line can only retrain to take advantage of a decreased target noise margin by resynchronising, but it's best to leave it several days between resets, then reset it only once. It is also possible that a resync will be forced by the DSLAM if the target noise margin improves - I can't remember the 20CN behaviour as it's so long since I've been on that system (I've had nearly 2 years on 21CN WBC ADSL2+, and nearly a month on FTTC).

Standard User matthewcl375
(learned) Sat 02-Feb-13 16:07:55
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately as I said arranging a DLM reset with the ISP isn't an option at the moment.

Well the line's almost completely stable right now, sure the sync rate is lower than it should be but the SNR Margin isn't fluctuating any more than 1 decimal point up and down, so the DLM should see this as a stable line eventually. 4Mbps is fine for us right now, not having any dropouts etc.

The small changes in sync rate I have described have not affected our download speeds at all thanks to the IP Profile sticking at 4Mbps.

What I may do is do a 9AM reboot in 2 or 3 days time to see if I can get the sync rate up to 5120+ Kbps to get us into the 4.5Mbps Profile. Apart from that I see no other option apart from waiting for the DLM 14 day period. Reboots aren't going to help unless I can get the sync rate up to 5120Kbps anyway, I'm still gonna be stuck in the 4Mbps Profile.
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Feb-13 16:12:19
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I can't remember the 20CN behaviour .....

You still have to have a lot of patience ........ and failing an improvement after a week, then as you say the OP has to get the ISP to reset the noise margin back to the default number of dBs.

Probably best to ask to get the reset done ASAP than to wait a week in hope laugh

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User matthewcl375
(learned) Sat 02-Feb-13 16:34:53
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Isn't it 14 days before the SNR Target updates?
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Sat 02-Feb-13 16:41:52
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
It could be somewhere around a fortnight. I'd attempt to leave the router at least two weeks before rebooting it again, then see what happens. Every time you reboot, you may be resetting the timer on DLM dropping your target noise margin.

Some fluctuation in the noise margin is normal on DSL - that, by itself, is not a fault, nor is it likely be the main metric used by DLM. So long as the noise margin remains positive at all times, the line theoretically should stay in sync - though the lower the noise margin gets, the lower the margin against errors and a possible loss of sync.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 02-Feb-13 17:44:49
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Re: Slow internet/low IP profile/high noise margin on Tesco


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Isn't it 14 days before the SNR Target updates?
It varies between 10 and 14. If it does it at all. It's after 14 or so you need to get onto the ISP or you just stay there.

Don't go by time of day to choose when to reboot. Check in RouterStats for a good steady high margin of the 24-hour variation. That might be 9am, 10am, 1400 or whatever. The higher the margin in relation to the sync-time setting of 15dB, the more chance there is of a highish sync, because it means the background noise is at a low point.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.3/15.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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