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Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 21:31:37
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Re: Which?


[re: Oldjim] [link to this post]
 
Yes. I didn't say they were perfect! They based it on 2012 tests, I think, and I've already registered my disagreement. Even Microsoft have backtracked from that claim for current security, especially for Windows 8. They also implied recently that Firefox is well behind IE and Chrome today. Same response from me.

The point here is that Which? is honest and their testing generally sets the industry standard. But even they glitch occasionally, or miss important nuances. However, in 2012, the security pundits were also saying that even the best packages weren't much better than Defender. That's not now true.

The Which? survey results are different. These are based on statistically-verified polls of real people, mostly their members' panel, which I'm on. But they also do wider surveys, like the current car reliability survey (do sign up for this). Each car is personally verified, to remove cheating, and they ask really detailed questions to see how many of each model get what faults. Because it's the UK's biggest car survey, the results are valid - and embarrassing for many car makers, eg on the proportion that get back for mods when there are recalls, which is a lot less than some makers had claimed.

When you think that Which? testing has evolved the NCAP car crash tests (which they still do, with European partners), that they forced a complete re-evaluation of baby seat safety in cars and efficiency ratings for domestic appliances, that their campaigns for (for example) fair fees from banks and insurers have been successful - and so on and so on; they are PROVEN honest by any fair standard, and are respected nationwide. But for cynics (who reckon EVERYONE is trying to cheat) even this reputation won't have any impact.

Edited by davidinnotts (Mon 06-Jan-14 23:47:03)

Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:12:50
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Re: Plusnet IS trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
I've persuaded three people to try PlusNet in the last year and they're all delighted. Two came from other ISPs and found the online and especially the phone help top class. One of these had an especial problem of coming from a 45-year-old hard-wired phone system, which threw every other ISP, including BT, when they asked about upgrading this old, socketless system, PlusNet got BT to upgrade at no extra cost, plus we got the vintage phones bask to sell!

Which? get their reliability, customer service, etc. results simply by inviting their members to fill in a survey about their ISP. PlusNet have always been better than OK in these surveys of tens of thousands of people, but this last time, USERS (not Which?) voted them top for customer service and value.

Of course, as someone else has pointed out, every ISP has a small (or with some ISPs bigger) percentage of problems. This can be a poor in-home line system, a poor link to the cabinet, old copper to the exchange (my problem) or a trunk problem - or the ISP may be doing its job badly - they all have at least a few poor employees. What separates the best, like PlusNet and Sky, from the rest is the consistent good service

What sets PlusNet out from the rest is their transparent attitude to general faults (it's all posted online as it progresses) and their superb service help in person, by ticket or by phone. A few years ago (I've been with F9/PlusNet since three months after they started up) I began getting erratic & poor signals and went through the same rigmarole that this thread is highlighting. But I trusted PlusNet to be working on my behalf and they (1) got BT to check my house to pole line - it was OK; and (2) after all tests resolved nothing, PlusNet persuaded BT to reconnect our line at the exchange, without charge. This was a fix, maybe because I have a very old copper line (maybe 80 year old to the exchange) and I think the exchange terminals had corroded. I use BT phone, and BT never suggested any solution until PlusNet pushed them.

I re-evaluate my contract every year, and (what is it) 20? years with PlusNet are because they've been a star all this time. BTW, although BT now own them, they appear to run completely independently.


How dare you have the nerve to point out these obvious ''facts'' as this sort of balanced observation just will not do ...why the tar is getting nicely warmed up and a bag of feathers is ready , bye Gad Sir where is you sense of collective rabble rousing ? ? ?
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:19:37
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Re: Which?


[re: Oldjim] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oldjim:
Is that the same Which which has apparently rated Windows Defender over all the other Security Packages http://www.which.co.uk/technology/software/reviews/s... whereas the reputable independent testing organisations rate it dead last for protection
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/...
http://www.av-comparatives.org/dynamic-tests/

________________________________________________________________

.....and what's wrong with a picture of Peter Cushing looking very stern or a garland of garlic flowers , pray tell me .... eh ??


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Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:40:35
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Re: Plusnet IS trustworthy


[re: KelvinBridge] [link to this post]
 
Nice one, Kelvin!
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 01:24:21
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Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
Wonderful... maybe you can persuade your friends at Plusnet to get off their backsides and do something about the problem I've been having since before your 3 friends joined?

Because I can't. Once a problem has lasted a certain amount of time, they lose interest and getting any kind of response out of them is nigh on impossible. Seriously, if you want to tell me that "Which" is a reliable source then I wouldn;t use Plusnet as an example, because I have experience of their poor customer service.
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 02:16:59
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Imagine this situation, s_yates. Your ISP (any) has been asked by you to solve a problem with your connection. They honestly try everything that they know (and let's suppose that their expertise is wonderful.) Nothing works, and all their suggestions of other ways you could check the connection - which are out of their control - don't work either. The ISP knows that only a proportion of the problems are anything to do with them, and their expertise tells them that it ain't their fault and there's no more they can do. Some problems go beyond reasonable solution.

Now suppose that their customer won't accept this, and continues to say that whatever is wrong, the ISP and no-one else, is responsible for fixing it, and the customer will smear their name all over the internet if they don't fix it NOW. If you were the ISP, what could you do? I personally don't think there's a polite answer - they've been put in an impossible position. Maybe the customer simply thinks that throwing enough threats and lies will force them to spend silly money to fix what ain't their fault, just to get the nastiness gone. If I were the ISP, I wouldn't be blackmailed like that.

My longstanding problem was nothing to do with PlusNet, yet they spent their engineers' time (which cost them) on trying to find me a fix. They persuaded BT to try a possible solution, and it worked. Would you, s_yates, tell me that they shouldn't have gone that far? It's a bit like blaming your motor engineer for everything that goes wrong with your car, just because they're responsible for servicing it on an annual contract. And yes, a few people do try that. When it's a servicing mistake, that's fine, but if there was an original maker's fault, or something wore out, or you crashed the car, it would be wrong.

PlusNet do make some mistakes, and they do have equipment and software problems occasionally. But compared with other ISPs, they are one of the very best. By far the majority of problems I've encountered over my long time with them (more, I think than anyone who works there now) are either equipment faults which everyone ultimately pays BT to manage, or most of all, problems with your own stuff at home. BT have helped me to sort out many of these over the decades, for free, and in their own time, and even though it wasn't their responsibility. That's GOOD service.

But if you still reckon they've let you down, go through the proper grievance route, as previous posters have outlined. Don't just diss them without evidence. They simply can't make everything right, and the evidence says that they DO manage to get it right more than the competition; in other words, go elsewhere and expect worse. As one person above put it, move to another ISP and the problem will still be there. What have you gained? It's galling to have such a problem, and I'm sympathetic, but your chance of a fix is better with PlusNet than with just about all others. Having said that do keep trying, and talk to them as partners rather than crooks who only want to rob you. Honey wins more help than a gush of bile.
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 02:22:58
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Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Definition of 'Poor Customer Service':

1> The ISP gets more complaints than most.

2> Even though most people are satisfied, they deal badly with a few customers, as evidenced by Ombudsman complaints.

3> I don't care about anyone else; they're rubbish if I have an insoluble problem.

4> All ISPs are rubbish, so they all give poor customer service. I would if I owned one; it's good for profits.

Any more offers?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 09:24:55
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Re: Which?


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
Shame on you, John!

Their starter offer for new members is standard for the magazine business: a free report (sometimes a trial issue or other goodie) plus three months' free issues, provided you sign a DD or similar contract for monthly issues. You can cancel whenever you like. How is this dishonest, as you're suggesting?

And 'so-called' consumer group? They are recognized nation-wide and internationally as THE Consumer Group,


I just call it as I see it.

Charging people different prices for the same product.... Really honest....

Recognized and used when companies want too...


But we are getting off topic here.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 09:36:11
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Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
Definition of 'Poor Customer Service':

1> The ISP gets more complaints than most.

2> Even though most people are satisfied, they deal badly with a few customers, as evidenced by Ombudsman complaints.

Any more offers?


Customer service only comes into play when people contact them.

Good customer service is how these contacts are resolved by the rep/company.

A issue here is that ALL isp's have to deal with a 3'rd party to get many issues resolved. So with the best will in the world. No matter how good a isp's customer service is. If they are let down by the 3'rd party then there is little they can do.

The biggest issue is how the problems are reported (out of isp's hands) and if the fault is closed by the 3'rd party. Yet the issue is not resolved it has to be opened again. Starting the whole process again.....
Just like a game of ping pong...

As has been said before OP needs to go back to basics and get the phone line side checked out.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Jan-14 10:00:01
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Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
5>They should be psychic - I've totally failed to explain what my issue actually is but I still expect them to fix it.

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
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