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Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Thu 02-Jan-14 17:59:42
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Plusnet untrustworthy


[link to this post]
 
After a hand full of contradictions in help support and 2 years + with nothing but lies with the same problem I confront Plusnet and get threatened with a ban.


Basically shut your mouth or get a ban.


Stay away from Plusnet if you know whats good for you.

Edited by blimsta (Thu 02-Jan-14 18:18:01)

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-Jan-14 18:03:55
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Where does the ban apply to?

Alastair

plusnet
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Thu 02-Jan-14 19:02:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
The forum moderators (not Plusnet staff) asked you to stop spamming threads with accusations of lies. They aren't employed by Plusnet, they moderate the forums on their own time.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email

Edited by chrisparr (Thu 02-Jan-14 19:03:40)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).


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Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Thu 02-Jan-14 19:08:57
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I get a whole load of contradictions from their "support" staff too. I have had an ongoing ticket with Plusnet for 16 months and getting nowhere fast. The support is sporadic, generally useless and more interested in fixing the short term problems for their "customers" as those are the ones to impact their statistics the most.

They don't treaten to ban me, just offer to let me terminate the contract with them early and take my problem somewhere else.

I'm fully with you on this blimsta.. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Thu 02-Jan-14 23:18:54
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisparr:
The forum moderators (not Plusnet staff) asked you to stop spamming threads with accusations of lies. They aren't employed by Plusnet, they moderate the forums on their own time.



That's not how I translated it.

I have removed your latest post - Plusnet rebranding - as it isn't acceptable for these Forums as well as the similar post in the Gaming Section
Accusing Plusnet of lying is completely unacceptable.
Any further posts in this vein will result in an immediate Forum ban



"lying" is just a word, its not even a swear word. I think it's clear I hit a sensitive subject.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 02-Jan-14 23:48:23
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
''lying'' is just a word, its not even a swear word.
No, it's worse! It's not just insulting but is accusing them of dishonesty and may be libellous.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 02-Jan-14 23:49:14)

Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 00:35:32
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie


Funny that because it doesn't stat that under it's definition.

You mean the truth hurts? so hard done by.



PS. who else benefits from this O_o. 2.5 billion British pounds of tax payers money went into BT's pocket for this FTTC product. My local ISP got nothing.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 00:38:55
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I take it you have seen Plusnet's television adverts? In addition, the dodgy statistics they use to back up their claims of being great are not that honest either.
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Fri 03-Jan-14 08:55:44
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
You posted across multiple threads, different areas of the forum and were asked to stop. That's as simple as it gets really.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Fri 03-Jan-14 08:59:19
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
As far as I'm aware you've got a line fault that we're in the process of investigating? I'm really not sure how this means we're lying to you though.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User zom22
(regular) Fri 03-Jan-14 09:08:08
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Look you two:

These days there are complainers about just about everything on the internet and just about anything sold anywhere in any on line review on any site.

The fact is no one cares anymore about what is in percentage terms a very small minority who may have a justified grievance or who may be trolls - who knows.
Most people realise that when selling products in the millions to consumers there are going to be a certain small percentage that go wrong in some way - nothing can be perfect every time. and that endless rants by the few that may indeed have been treated badly does not actually reflect the product's quality at the price its is being offered at.
So no one is really interested in what you think.

If you don't like the service just go somewhere else - the rest of us are quite satisfied and have been in my case since 2008 - its just that most frankly have better things to do with their lives than either post their satisfaction on these forums - or for that matter read them.

Take Ryanair - the complaints and the complainers seeking their 15 minutes of fame on the telly are legion and have been for ages - yet people still fly with them....I'd figure they must be doing something right for the majority - or as Michael O'leary is reputed to have said - we don't like dissatisfied customers - dissatisfied customers can go and fly with someone else.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 10:35:19
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Have to say your shocking proof of congestion really isn't. That'd be steady loss of throughput not a couple of incidents of it dragging average throughput down or as in the case of the worst one repeated instances of zero throughput.

Those are instances of packet loss, not congestion on peering routes. That they still happen at nearly midnight doesn't point to congestion.

It would also seem pretty strange if you have congestion on most peering routes yet those hundreds of thousands of us who share those routes with you don't see that same congestion, don't you think?
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 12:07:02
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
BANNED

"Sorry Blim, you are banned from using this forum!
Personal attacks and posting a PM "


(told the guy he was shallow)


Just before I went to bed last night a forum admin and 2 others started taking the [censored] out of me being dyslexia. I didn't really care that much at the time as they don't understand what that means anyway but then I see I've been banned for calling someone shallow



Plusnet are scum.

Edited by blimsta (Fri 03-Jan-14 12:07:28)

Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 12:14:24
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: zom22] [link to this post]
 
Glad you have a good experience with Plusnet.

I don't and am entitled to post my experiences with their bad customer service and lack of support wherever I like. I am STILL waiting for a response to questions I posted almost a month ago, so no.. it is not good.

and as for your "you can go elsewhere" argument, why should I? I pay Plusnet for a service, Plusnet keep telling everyone that they are the best amongst the ISPs out there, so surely it is not too much to expect them to "Do you Proud"?

You see, if it were not for people that don't stand for it, then they would quite happily do this to you as well.
Standard User alext05
(member) Fri 03-Jan-14 12:43:07
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
I appreciate you have long-standing problems with Plusnet - we all do, from time to time, with various organisations in different fields (banks, housing, utilities companies, builders, ect).

The most constructive and effective (i.e. achieving the desired result) way of dealing with the situation like that is to raise an official complaint in writing and follow it through all necessary stages, as per their policy at http://www.plus.net/support/service/policies/complai...

I am just curious, if you have done so, and if yes, at what stage it is.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 12:55:01
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
I have not, I have asked here before for help but you are the first person to really be of any help thanks.

I will follow that up.



PS. thinkbroadband have a direct link (network) to PN (which renders the ping test pointless) and the staff here are reluctant in helping me. I just wonder how far this corruption goes.

2.5 billion British pounds of tax payers money for this FTTC. So the hush hush keep the public quiet and get a un-throttled connection isn't going to stand anymore.

So sick of the corporations treating the public like this and paying people to be quiet about it.
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Fri 03-Jan-14 12:59:29
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
I have not, I have asked here before for help but you are the first person to really be of any help thanks.

I will follow that up.



PS. thinkbroadband have a direct link (network) to PN (which renders the ping test pointless) and the staff here are reluctant in helping me. I just wonder how far this corruption goes.

2.5 billion British pounds of tax payers money for this FTTC. So the hush hush keep the public quiet and get a un-throttled connection isn't going to stand anymore.

So sick of the corporations treating the public like this and paying people to be quiet about it.


Who Told You Plusnet are un throttled ?

Standard User alext05
(member) Fri 03-Jan-14 13:02:58
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
All the best with your complaint. I am sure this will help to sort any outstanding issues to your satisfaction.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 13:09:09
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: wanapoo] [link to this post]
 
Plusnet staff.


So my connection keeps dropping out but my router logs have not stated any WAN disconnections or PPPo sessions ended.

Why can I not just end my contract based on this?
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 13:14:10
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Let me just add

So my 74/20 FTTC connection has been working great 4am with not a single problem. But in the day time I get errors after errors.

Also I am able to play online games with a 3G connection problem free compared to PN.


What does that read, anyone like to state the obvious or does the dyslexic guy have to do it again (me).
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Fri 03-Jan-14 13:16:49
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Plusnet staff.


So my connection keeps dropping out but my router logs have not stated any WAN disconnections or PPPo sessions ended.

Why can I not just end my contract based on this?


You need to highlight evidence to Plusnet, that a member of staff misinformed you that their service was unthrottled. Because this contradicts all the openly and widely known available information, stating the traffic is throttled on Plusnet and all other major UK ISP's

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/tr...

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 13:57:21
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: wanapoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wanapoo:
You need to highlight evidence to Plusnet, that a member of staff misinformed you that their service was unthrottled. Because this contradicts all the openly and widely known available information, stating the traffic is throttled on Plusnet and all other major UK ISP's

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/tr...


Plusnet Unlimited is not throttled, else they wouldn't be able to advertise it as unlimited, and I'm sure Sky would be interested to know that they throttle.

What Plusnet do on the Unlimited isn't quite the same as throttling.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:15:51
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
PS. thinkbroadband have a direct link (network) to PN (which renders the ping test pointless) and the staff here are reluctant in helping me. I just wonder how far this corruption goes.


Think Broadband do not have a direct link (network) to Plusnet. They peer via LINX not a private peering interface, nothing dedicated. Any issues on the Plusnet side will affect Think Broadband in the same manner as every other Plusnet peer on the LINX .224 LAN.

Tracing route to www.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
3 17 ms 14 ms 12 ms lo0-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.195]
4 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.144]
5 12 ms 30 ms 11 ms xe-4-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.240]
6 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms linx-gw1.thn.ncuk.net [195.66.224.240]
7 14 ms 18 ms 14 ms gi1-24-10-star1.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.9]
8 12 ms 11 ms 12 ms www.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.130]

You have already been told that Plusnet suspect this is a rare bug in the exchange; some bugs get worse under load, and there is zero evidence that Plusnet have severe peering congestion issues, as the other over 650,000 of us don't see it. I am quite sure if there were severe issues Chrysalis would have noted them given he's a sysadmin who works on multiple networks and is very, very sensitive to slower speeds and jitter on other networks.

Appreciate your experience has been bad but accusing people of corruption and lying while simultaneously fixating on what you think is the fault, while having no evidence for it, isn't going to get things fixed.

Follow the official complaints process, get a deadlock letter if needed and go through the arbitration process. Accusations of corruption and implying that Plusnet are being funded by government cash isn't going to help... not to mention that the 2.5 billion figure you quote isn't government cash but what BT themselves have/are spending on their commercial rollout. The BDUK pot is substantially lower.

As I said I know you're irate but things like this are always best pursued from a position of knowledge rather than assumption, and just a quick look at this suggests you're assuming a lot. See how Plusnet go with the investigations. If it is a line issue moving won't achieve anything. If it's an issue in the exchange moving may not achieve anything.

Also, while Plusnet are continuing to work on the line issues there is no deadlock to be had. Let them do their thing.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Fri 03-Jan-14 14:21:48)

Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:21:42
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
As Alext05 notes, we all end up having problems with organisations from time to time. Some are easily solved, while some are not. In attempting to sort out problems, it can sometimes happen that a customer feels slighted - treated unfairly or somesuch - which in turn can let the problem become a feud.

In some cases, that "slight" can be the result of a misunderstanding or a simple human mistake, and all attempts to correct the misunderstanding result in the feud going deeper. That ends up with accusations of lying, corruption, and all manner of negativity. At this point, simple mistakes are amplified out of all proportion. Misunderstandings become rife. One person feels deeply aggrieved, but no-one else does.

In this case, I note one misunderstanding that has been repeated twice:
PS. who else benefits from this O_o. 2.5 billion British pounds of tax payers money went into BT's pocket for this FTTC product. My local ISP got nothing.

In reply to a post by blimsta:
2.5 billion British pounds of tax payers money for this FTTC.


The £2.5bn of money being spent on the commercial rollout of FTTC (of which you appear to be a beneficiary with 74/20 speeds) is being spent by BT out of their own funds. No-one else is contributing to that fund, though BT have to borrow it from someone (and repay it). This is meant to cover 67% of the UK., though 40% overlaps with Virgin coverage so those users have a choice.

It appears that around 10% of the UK can get SFBB from Virgin but not BT.

Between these two, the commercial rollouts mean that around 77% of the UK can (or will be able to) benefit from SFBB without the need for taxpayers money.

The tax-payers money being used to get SFBB speeds to 90% of the UK amounts to around £1.2bn at the moment. Where contracts have been announced, BT has won, and have added their own money to the pot - about 40% of the total, or another 0.8bn or so IIRC.

Extra funds are being discussed for 2017 targets, but haven't been allocated yet.

The problem I have is this...
When I see someone seething at a company, and showing elementary misunderstandings, it makes me wonder what other misunderstandings have contributed to the feud. There may be none at all, but it makes me wonder.
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:22:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by wanapoo:
You need to highlight evidence to Plusnet, that a member of staff misinformed you that their service was unthrottled. Because this contradicts all the openly and widely known available information, stating the traffic is throttled on Plusnet and all other major UK ISP's

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/tr...


Plusnet Unlimited is not throttled, else they wouldn't be able to advertise it as unlimited, and I'm sure Sky would be interested to know that they throttle.

What Plusnet do on the Unlimited isn't quite the same as throttling.



Unlimited relates to the total amount of data, meaning you can download as much as you want to download.
The throttling/traffic management is the speed at which you download at. You are still unlimited, but the amount of time it takes will be longer.

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:36:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: wanapoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wanapoo:
Unlimited relates to the total amount of data, meaning you can download as much as you want to download.
The throttling/traffic management is the speed at which you download at. You are still unlimited, but the amount of time it takes will be longer.


Nope.

If you disagree you can report Plusnet's advertising to the ASA as their Key Facts Indicator claims no throttling.
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:36:42
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: wanapoo] [link to this post]
 
Just to be clear there are *no* rate limits on our Unlimited product. There is traffic prioritisation to ensure more time sensitive traffic is ahead of non-time critical stuff, but nothing that will slow it down to a set speed.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 14:54:11
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
@WWWombat

Right more manipulating posts. I do not agree with any of that. I took that statement from a court case against BT over the FTTC roll out and how BT lied about investing there own money.

But anyway, you are missing the point or diverting the attention, and as I stated already as staff you are reluctant in being any help. What is your mentality anyway!

As a gamers we don't want to spend 3 years learning how the internet works just so some corporation doesn't try to pull a fast one.

That's the reality of the situation at hand.

Edited by blimsta (Fri 03-Jan-14 14:55:04)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 15:00:23
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Right more manipulating posts. I do not agree with any of that. I took that statement from a court case against BT over the FTTC roll out and how BT lied about investing there own money.


I'd quite like to see the information on that court case given that BT still claim it's that that 2.5bln is their money. If they are lying about that in contravention of a court case that'd be pretty serious.

Not to mention lying to shareholders and the stock market. Forget fines, there would be criminal prosecutions.
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Fri 03-Jan-14 15:27:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:
In reply to a post by wanapoo:
Unlimited relates to the total amount of data, meaning you can download as much as you want to download.
The throttling/traffic management is the speed at which you download at. You are still unlimited, but the amount of time it takes will be longer.


Nope.

If you disagree you can report Plusnet's advertising to the ASA as their Key Facts Indicator claims no throttling.


Plusnet using the term Priority. is only an alternative legal/marketing wording to differentiate Plusnet's version of throttling. The difference is, the previouse throttling reduced the speed/rate of all the internet traffic. Plusnet throttle individual streams of data/traffic types.

In this topic or instance, the OP has been reporting his P2P traffic/communications performance keeps dropping, when Plusnet enters it's busy periods. This is because of Plusnet's traffic management system throttles/sacrificing P2P traffic users first, as P2P traffic is classified as low Priority Bronze traffic. The OP has already stated his P2P traffic is fine in the early hours of the morning.


If Plusnet Staff are willing as a gesture of good will, to offer to trial the PRO package raising the OP's P2P traffic from Bronze to Silver. If it works, it will be upto the OP to either pay for the upgrade to the Pro package after the trial period.


Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 15:32:23
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I am frantically looking for it and will not only watch that 3 hour court case again but also post it up here.


For now thou here is a post I had a year ago when things started to get out of hand with PN, because they used to be very good.

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1121...

Still on going.
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Fri 03-Jan-14 16:16:22
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
I am frantically looking for it and will not only watch that 3 hour court case again but also post it up here.


For now thou here is a post I had a year ago when things started to get out of hand with PN, because they used to be very good.

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1121...

Still on going.



@Blimsta

Your other post on Thinkbroadband said you were using P2P games/software, and it was fine in the early morning. you had no loss of sync or ppp, but you were suffering from p2p game latency and disconnection problems.

The link you just posted says you were on the pro package about a year ago, when you didnt have the problems. Are you still on the Pro package or was it removed when you switched to fibre ?

Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 03-Jan-14 16:25:55
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
and as I stated already as staff you are reluctant in being any help. What is your mentality anyway!

As staff of what?

I post on TBB's forum, and I post on PN's forum. I'm not staff of TBB, and I'm not staff of PN. I post to help, or to seek help.

I am technically knowledgeable on a subset of telecoms matters, but certainly don't know anywhere near everything. And I'm perfectly OK with offering help where I think my knowledge of the technology can help.

My mentality is to offer help, but only where it is going to be listened to. In fact, the only motivation there is to post on either site is to either post to learn something or to post to help someone.

I'm not out to get you. No paranoia is needed in my direction.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 16:27:13
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
You evidently take this seriously given you paid 60 quid for a network card!

That thread became a confused mess. Not great to have something dragging on for so long. Prior to FTTC I had a fault that Plusnet couldn't resolve despite their best efforts.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 16:50:53
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
This is quite a mess yes. Too many thing going wrong but no action

Just now I have noticed 20-30 seconds of time out (dc from game too) just as we get a gust of wind. This has happen before and I have told PN this time and time again.

I was on the phone to PN support via VoIP and every time I hear the wind outside the call became distorted. Over head cable is like 50 + years old and I live on the coast, wind speeds do pick up.

That's one problem and from what I can understand signal problems don't affect latency directly only if interleaving is applied?

Personally I would like to move away and use a LLU or my local cable provider again.



@wanapoo

according to PN the Pro add-on would have no affect on my gaming with the fibre unlimited and P2P traffic.

Edited by blimsta (Fri 03-Jan-14 17:07:17)

ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Fri 03-Jan-14 17:34:49
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Just now I have noticed 20-30 seconds of time out (dc from game too) just as we get a gust of wind. This has happen before and I have told PN this time and time again.


Sorry if I've missed this, but I can't find reference to this, can you let me know where this was?

I understand we've got an engineer booked to visit you, however if this is a fault on the phone side of the line (which it sounds like it is) then a broadband engineer may not be able to locate the source.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 19:45:14
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
however if this is a fault on the phone side of the line (which it sounds like it is) then a broadband engineer may not be able to locate the source.

That's an odd statement Chris ? There are no broadband trained Openreach engineers who cannot perform tests on the pair. Some don't have underground skills, though most do, and if required can get a UG skilled engineer to assist. Every single man Jack of 'em will have overhead skills, which is where this guy *believes* his fault lies.

Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 03-Jan-14 20:08:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
I was on the phone to PN support via VoIP and every time I hear the wind outside the call became distorted. Over head cable is like 50 + years old and I live on the coast, wind speeds do pick up.


Can I ask something.
Why do you use Voip? Why are you not using the std phone?

Does you std phone line drop out as well at the same time?

If it does why are you not raising a voice line fault with Whoever provides that side of the service.

From what you said it does sound like a issue with a connection in one of the boxes. But it would be far better to be raised as a voice fault, than as a broadband fault.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User dualbroadband
(newbie) Fri 03-Jan-14 20:56:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy *DELETED*


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Sadoldman
Standard User greyposter
(knowledge is power) Fri 03-Jan-14 23:04:39
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: dualbroadband] [link to this post]
 
Coals to Newcastle.

In wine there is wisdom,In beer there is freedom,In water there is bacteria
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Jan-14 00:16:45
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
That's one problem and from what I can understand signal problems don't affect latency directly only if interleaving is applied?


Signal problems can affect latency on a packet-by-packet basis.

Minimum latency (ie for every packet) is increased when interleaving is applied.

However, any tiny burst of noise (ie signal problems) can cause packet loss - particularly if FEC is turned off (and FEC+interleaving usually go hand-in-hand in the downstream direction). More noise bursts lead to higher amounts of packet loss.

This packet loss amounts to, for some packets, an infinite latency.

Packet loss has an impact to downloads - when you will see some amount of "pause" while the two sides work out that a packet has been lost, and resend the missing packet. If there are enough pauses, download speeds are impacted.

If you want to monitor your packet loss rate (and have a static IP), take a look at the TBB BQM at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping

Edit: There's some interesting information relating to packet loss at this tutorial. They set acceptable packet loss levels to 2.5%, while a linked paper on VoIP suggests that 1.5% gives a poor result for telephony.

Edited by WWWombat (Sat 04-Jan-14 11:17:00)

Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Jan-14 11:38:46
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Just now I have noticed 20-30 seconds of time out just as we get a gust of wind. This has happen before

One gust of wind, followed by 20-30 seconds of timeout? This size of timeout is suspiciously similar to the amount of time it takes to resync. Depending on the timeout values set at the PPP layer, PPP might survive while the modem re-syncs.

Or a longer gust of wind lasting 20-30 seconds, with the timeout lasting the same amount of time? In this case, the symptom suggests noise bursts on the line causing packet loss.

I was on the phone to PN support via VoIP and every time I hear the wind outside the call became distorted.

This aspect very much sounds like noise bursts on the line, causing packet loss.

I recall you mentioning that, for one call at least, the poor VoIP call quality happened in one direction only (downstream, to be heard by you).

That can be explained in FTTC, where it can sometimes be seen that downstream has neither FEC nor interleaving turned on, but upstream has FEC turned on without interleaving. The additional protection for upstream could be enough to give good call quality in that direction, while even a small amount of loss downstream can adversely affect what you hear.

according to PN the Pro add-on would have no affect on my gaming with the fibre unlimited and P2P traffic.

In fact, the one circumstance that PN say that the Pro add-on has an effect on the unlimited fibre package is precisely for gaming - but only in the case for new games where they haven't set up prioritisation rules.
Standard User wanapoo
(committed) Sat 04-Jan-14 12:12:28
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
It's hard to follow Blimsta's fault description because he mixes terms and descriptions up.
1 moment he's talking about his game, then the next moment he is talking about something completely different.

What I've read, He isn't having line drops/disconnects. No drop in sync or drop of ppp.
His sync speed is good, and has full download speeds according to speedtests he's posted with good ping (16ms).

The disconnections he is describing, is the connection from his computer to a game server. His P2P traffic to and from the game server is timing out, not his internet connection. His P2P game traffic ping times increase 160+ milli seconds when Plusnet's network becomes busy. P2P game traffic is fine at 4am.

That is Blimsta's primary/main fault with Plusnet as I read through it.

Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 15:10:27
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: wanapoo] [link to this post]
 
The gaming problem is on going. Plusnet peak time is more like all day, especially over the holidays and most of winter.
http://community.plus.net/blog/2013/12/20/its-christ...

-----


Around Christmas we had a storm or two that has done a lot of damaged in my area. Met office reported 90mph winds. I've been getting 5-10 and the more recent 10-30 second time out (dc from games). So that is progressively getting worse. I also have been checking the router logs and while this happens, there are no logs for ppp session or wan port down.

Now when I ring Plusnet about this, because I couldn't use my connection over Christmas. They basically told me to do a Wireshark, yes that's right for a time-out error.

So what are they going to do, is what I want to know. A engineer to come round and not even check the line seems like another waste of time.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 15:39:30
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
What sort of engineer visit would be expected from this kind of reply (PN support) because I got the idea it was a line fault call out?

After being ask about engineer visit again.

First I sed this

This is such an inconvenience.

If I sed no, I cant get to the master socket unless its 100% necessary does this mean you are unwilling to help me?

The master socket is the one in use but its not easy to get to and I live in a shared house. I would need to gain access to that part of the house and then get inside a locked cupboard. I watched him fit the simple 2 core cable leaving it twisted as required.

If you do feel like you must check the master socket could you at least give good reason to why with proof. Error logs pointing to that type of error.


Plusnet support reply

Your line is showing up errors as I've shown below:
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2013-12-27T15:03:21.887+00:00 2013-12-27T15:18:21.887+00:00
Ingress Code Violation 0 0
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 247 74
Severely Errored Seconds 189 41
Unavailable Seconds 0 0


It would be worthwhile to get access to your master socket if possible.



I sed

Ok that seems like good reason.

I'm not sure if you are aware but the line from the cab to the duct next to the pole was changed and the BTOR guy sed it was running with no errors so that leaves the line from the duct up to the pole and in my house unchecked. I hope that is helpful.

Any date should be ok as long as its not the 9th Jan. As soon as possible would be appreciated.

Thanks.



Why can they not just finish the job and check/replace the last part of my line (30min job if that). Luckily my house is closes to the pole and I can even arrange for parking.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 04-Jan-14 18:21:48
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
This is confusing! In one post it's a waste of time their having an engineer visit then 29 minutes later you post here saying you think they should swap your drop cable out.

You were claiming it was a congestion problem, that you had 'stunning' evidence of it and now you are saying that you need your drop cable replaced. This 'stunning' evidence apparently appeared a few days after you agreed that you had a line fault and agreed to an engineer visit.

You said the fault had been going on for months and are now discussing the effect the recent storms may have had. Is this going to be relevant to a fault you claim is nearly a year old?

If they were asking for a Wireshark it was because you were complaining specifically about the game stalling rather than overall connection problems. They asked for a Wireshark trace because it would have shown which priority queue the game was going into.

This has been incredibly hard to follow and I can see why the troubleshooting has been extremely convoluted. A couple of things in just this copy/paste have confused me thoroughly such as:

I watched him fit the simple 2 core cable leaving it twisted as required.


From your first thread the fault stalled because you stopped responding, this one they ask about an engineer and your response is that it's an inconvenience and to ask for proof, then a couple of days later you're on their forums accusing them of corruption, lying and claiming that you know what the issue is. A couple of days later you're on here venting.

Do you really think this will get things fixed any quicker? If you actually do agree this is a line fault, though your opinion of what the issue is seems to change hourly, moving to another ISP will achieve absolutely nothing and you'll just start all of this over again.

Just stick to the overall issue of everthing stalling, forget your gaming, forget your assumption of peering congestion, forget any preconceptions, respond promptly to your ISP with the information they ask for rather than adding things that are either irrelevant or presumptuous and follow the process. Things usually get fixed quicker that way.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 21:04:40
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
unnecessary rant. Deleted.

Edited by blimsta (Sat 04-Jan-14 21:54:40)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Jan-14 21:07:33
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
You are getting quite obnoxious. People are confused by your varying posts and ideas. People ARE trying to help so help them to help you by answering questions that they ask!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 21:14:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
I just don't know what to say, ok?


Can we get the problem fix?


Plusnet are sending a engineer round to fix a line fault that he will not be able to fix because is isn't a line engineer. That's the low down. No confusion, just you two.

Edited by blimsta (Sat 04-Jan-14 21:25:53)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 04-Jan-14 21:17:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Chip on your shoulder about having a disability? Shouldn't stop you from having the patience to answer questions that may help others to help you.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 21:29:03
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
What do you suggest then?

My goal is to get the time out fixed while maintaining my agreement of a fast stable connection for gaming.

Edited by blimsta (Sat 04-Jan-14 21:50:42)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sat 04-Jan-14 22:01:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Plusnet are sending a engineer round to fix a line fault that he will not be able to fix because is isn't a line engineer. That's the low down. No confusion, just you two.


A 'regular' engineer HAS to attend before a special faults investigation engineer can attend. Openreach will reject SFI orders unless a standard engineer has attended.

That said any engineer will be fine for a simple fault but this is the process.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 04-Jan-14 22:13:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
while maintaining my agreement of a fast stable connection for gaming
What 'agreement of a fast stable connection for gaming'? Do you have some special T&Cs? The best the rest of us have is best endeavours in view of the technology employed and the price paid for a residential product.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 04-Jan-14 23:48:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I think gaming comes under PN contract but when I singed up I did ask about it and was told it was fine. All I'm worried about is interleaving rather than getting the problem fix but I'll just have to wait and see. No point in jumping the gun.

WWWombat suggest the latency could be coursed by noise "packet-by-packet basis". So if the overhead line being replaced does fix the problem then I guess I owe Plusnet an apology.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Jan-14 09:45:02
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Can I ask something.
Why do you use Voip? Why are you not using the std phone?

Does you std phone line drop out as well at the same time?


Can you answer this question?

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sun 05-Jan-14 13:34:31
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
I don't own a phone other than a old bt adsl+2 hub2 + cordless phone built in.

I used skype because It's easy.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Sun 05-Jan-14 14:05:08
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Plunet do make a big noise about how they are the best ISP for gamers.

I hope that it is your line that is the cause of your problems, since over the past two years Openreach have replaced my master socket, the actual line from my house to the first junction box (twice) and rebuilt the line from unused pairs all the way from the exchange to my house, checking at each junction point that the line is good.

And I still have horrendous latency and a bad connection at peak times (6pm to 11pm), which I am beginning to doubt is the fault of BTOR as I am constantly told.

@Ignitionnet - "A 'regular' engineer HAS to attend before a special faults investigation engineer can attend. Openreach will reject SFI orders unless a standard engineer has attended. " Is this true? I've had 10 engineer visits and they have all been from the same 4 local BTOR engineers (In no particular order), Does this mean I have not had an SFI Engineer in attendance? (which would be rather strange as BTOR have issued Plusnet with a deadlock).
Standard User AndyHCZ
(newbie) Sun 05-Jan-14 16:28:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Plunet do make a big noise about how they are the best ISP for gamers.


Where do they do this?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Jan-14 17:25:29
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Shame. As it would be interesting to know how it acts.

Can you not beg or borrow one and try a quiet line test ? or to see how it is when you have internet issues.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 05-Jan-14 17:34:48
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
£5-£6 from places like ASDA. The Phone Book says to try such in the test socket before reporting a fault.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 05-Jan-14 17:39:00
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Because broadband is delivered over your phone line, if your phone line has problems then your broadband will too.


______________________________________________________________________________________Go_girl!__________________
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 05-Jan-14 17:55:56
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I think I knew that tongue, and the Phone Book is on about voice faults, not broadband.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Jan-14 17:58:24
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Because broadband is delivered over your phone line, if your phone line has problems then your broadband will too.


Exactly.

OP seems focused on the internet side, but nothing has been said about the line.

Time to go back to basics and work from there.

End result for OP if released by PlusNet could be no better than it is now. If the issue is the line.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Sun 05-Jan-14 19:09:03
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
Go read their website and the packages they offer, I ain;t going to spoon feed you
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 05-Jan-14 19:12:44
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Go read their website and the packages they offer, I ain;t going to spoon feed you
In other words, you don't know.


______________________________________________________________________________________Go_girl!__________________
Standard User AndyHCZ
(newbie) Sun 05-Jan-14 19:24:49
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I don't think they make any kind of big push for gamers.

They offer a lot of support, but there are a couple of reasons for this:

1) They are one of the few large ISPs that you can actually engage and have a meaningful discussion to resolve problems;
2) Their traffic management system sometimes does not class new games in the correct priority setting.
Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 05-Jan-14 19:25:08
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Plunet do make a big noise about how they are the best ISP for gamers.

In reply to a post by s_yates:
Go read their website and the packages they offer, I ain;t going to spoon feed you

As per your suggestion, I went to the PlusNet Website to look for this "big noise about how they are the best ISP for gamers", but couldn't see it!

In fact they only appear to compare themselves to Sky, TalkTalk & Virgin - & then that is only for alleged Customer Service.

Regards,
John
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-14 11:51:30
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: johnjburness] [link to this post]
 
The unlimited broadband and calls package does state:

A perfect package for large families, downloaders and gamers.


Not sure that is them making a big noise though. I do seem to remember vaguely some TV ads that may have suggested something along these lines but it was a while ago and I could be suffering poor recall.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-14 14:14:10
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Doesn't it date back to when Pro was sold as a separate product rather than an add-on? (Plusnet Pro was sold until 18th April 2011)

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jan-14 14:57:50
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
You could well be right, I have difficulty remembering last week most of the time so nearly 3 years is way beyond my powers of retention wink
Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Mon 06-Jan-14 15:03:58
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
It could also be that as you can download a lot of games now (rather than buying them on discs) direct to the console, you won't be subject to any extra monthly usage charges (if you are on unlimited).

Being on fibre should mean lower pings which would benefit gamers.

There was an article a few months back about gaming usage on PlusNet - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/09/isp-plu...
Standard User hothands2
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 17:03:27
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Yes, I get a whole load of contradictions from their "support" staff too. I have had an ongoing ticket with Plusnet for 16 months and getting nowhere fast. The support is sporadic, generally useless and more interested in fixing the short term problems for their "customers" as those are the ones to impact their statistics the most.

They don't treaten to ban me, just offer to let me terminate the contract with them early and take my problem somewhere else.

I'm fully with you on this blimsta.. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy.
Standard User hothands2
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 17:25:40
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
I Totally agree with you , I was with Plusnet for over ten years and the last few years have been a night mare and I'm really pleased I migrated to EE who I have nothing but praise for them ,
I found everything too much trouble when I was with Plusnet , there are 1or 2 people who are helpful but I found most of then did not care less which is a shame as when I first joined them they were great but I found the service till I left them in May Very Poor .
And their claims in my opion misleading they even kept sending me email threatening me saying there were to many emails stored even though im with gmail and unlimited downloads and not stored not their systems and I was paying alot as a business customer with fibre which was expensive as they said that they don't offer fibre for business customers but they still charge me for it so I changed to EE and save alot each month and a much better connection /router .
Standard User headscratcher
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 18:22:16
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Having read most of this, I have changed my mind about persuading a neighbour to give them a try.

The fact that they are part of the BT Group did worry me, how did they get the Which best ISP?

Surely it is time someone put together a portable line tester [rentable if expensive] that could pinpoint problems? A friend was always having problems with his broadband [another Isp to those mentioned] it frequently went off at weekends for some weird reason but since changing his router the problem disappeared.

Trying to pin down broadband problems is like wrestling with smoke and unscrupulous people [ no names] will take advantage.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 06-Jan-14 19:28:21
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: headscratcher] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by headscratcher:
Having read most of this, I have changed my mind about persuading a neighbour to give them a try.

The fact that they are part of the BT Group did worry me, how did they get the Which best ISP?
Maybe because the rest are worse? tongue

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 06-Jan-14 19:35:56
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: headscratcher] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by headscratcher:
, how did they get the Which best ISP?

Surely it is time Trying to pin down broadband problems is like wrestling with smoke and unscrupulous people [ no names] will take advantage.


Because people voted for them...

Then again who trusts "Which"... A so called consumer group. Who tag you into taking a "FREE" booklet and then charge you anything from £1 to £19.99 for exactly the same product afterwards... Of course depending on the offer at the time....

You router gives stats as to what is happening on the connection.

But you have to remember that faults that come and go are always going to be hard to resolve. As well as most likely being related to something in the local area (neighbours etc) rather than a actual fault with the line.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 19:57:27
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS trustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I've persuaded three people to try PlusNet in the last year and they're all delighted. Two came from other ISPs and found the online and especially the phone help top class. One of these had an especial problem of coming from a 45-year-old hard-wired phone system, which threw every other ISP, including BT, when they asked about upgrading this old, socketless system, PlusNet got BT to upgrade at no extra cost, plus they got the vintage phones back to sell!

Which? get their reliability, customer service, etc. results simply by inviting their members to fill in a survey about their ISP. PlusNet have always been better than OK in these surveys of tens of thousands of people, but this last time, USERS (not Which?) voted them top for customer service and value.

Of course, as someone else has pointed out, every ISP has a small (or with some ISPs bigger) percentage of problems. This can be a poor in-home line system, a poor link to the cabinet, old copper to the exchange (my problem) or a trunk problem - or the ISP may be doing its job badly - they all have at least a few poor employees. What separates the best, like PlusNet and Sky, from the rest is the consistent good service

What sets PlusNet out from the rest is their transparent attitude to general faults (it's all posted online as it progresses) and their superb service help in person, by ticket or by phone. A few years ago (I've been with F9/PlusNet since three months after they started up) I began getting erratic & poor signals and went through the same rigmarole that this thread is highlighting. But I trusted PlusNet to be working on my behalf and they (1) got BT to check my house to pole line - it was OK; and (2) after all tests resolved nothing, PlusNet persuaded BT to reconnect our line at the exchange, without charge. This was a fix, maybe because I have a very old copper line (maybe 80 year old to the exchange) and I think the exchange terminals had corroded. I use BT phone, and BT never suggested any solution until PlusNet pushed them.

I re-evaluate my contract every year, and (what is it) 20? years with PlusNet are because they've been a star all this time. BTW, although BT now own them, they appear to run completely independently.

Edited by davidinnotts (Mon 06-Jan-14 23:44:44)

Standard User weldick
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 20:25:08
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
As a Plusnet Forum Moderator I might be considered by some to be biased.
However I have been a satisfied Plusnet customer for 10 years with no problems.
I can't really comment about the efficiency of CSA responses to my calls for help as I've never had to make any.
All I can see is the dedication that Plusnet support puts into solving customers' problems particularly under the kind of duress I might walk away from.
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 20:38:11
Print Post

Re: Which?


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Shame on you, John! With all your great, useful & accurate comments on this thread, I'd have thought you'd treat Which? like you do others. Which? is a non-profit charity that has spent 50 years on the basis of honesty and neutral testing, comments and campaigns, despite the attempts (especially in the 50s and 60s) by manufacturers to throw dirt at them.

Their starter offer for new members is standard for the magazine business: a free report (sometimes a trial issue or other goodie) plus three months' free issues, provided you sign a DD or similar contract for monthly issues. You can cancel whenever you like. How is this dishonest, as you're suggesting?

And 'so-called' consumer group? They are recognized nation-wide and internationally as THE Consumer Group, such that even the government, banks, car industry, supermarkets, etc. have to answer them when they make public statements. And they tend to have an automatic seat on any body looking at consumer issues, if they want it. That's hardly 'so-called'!
Standard User Oldjim
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 06-Jan-14 20:52:18
Print Post

Re: Which?


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
Is that the same Which which has apparently rated Windows Defender over all the other Security Packages http://www.which.co.uk/technology/software/reviews/s... whereas the reputable independent testing organisations rate it dead last for protection
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/...
http://www.av-comparatives.org/dynamic-tests/
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 21:31:37
Print Post

Re: Which?


[re: Oldjim] [link to this post]
 
Yes. I didn't say they were perfect! They based it on 2012 tests, I think, and I've already registered my disagreement. Even Microsoft have backtracked from that claim for current security, especially for Windows 8. They also implied recently that Firefox is well behind IE and Chrome today. Same response from me.

The point here is that Which? is honest and their testing generally sets the industry standard. But even they glitch occasionally, or miss important nuances. However, in 2012, the security pundits were also saying that even the best packages weren't much better than Defender. That's not now true.

The Which? survey results are different. These are based on statistically-verified polls of real people, mostly their members' panel, which I'm on. But they also do wider surveys, like the current car reliability survey (do sign up for this). Each car is personally verified, to remove cheating, and they ask really detailed questions to see how many of each model get what faults. Because it's the UK's biggest car survey, the results are valid - and embarrassing for many car makers, eg on the proportion that get back for mods when there are recalls, which is a lot less than some makers had claimed.

When you think that Which? testing has evolved the NCAP car crash tests (which they still do, with European partners), that they forced a complete re-evaluation of baby seat safety in cars and efficiency ratings for domestic appliances, that their campaigns for (for example) fair fees from banks and insurers have been successful - and so on and so on; they are PROVEN honest by any fair standard, and are respected nationwide. But for cynics (who reckon EVERYONE is trying to cheat) even this reputation won't have any impact.

Edited by davidinnotts (Mon 06-Jan-14 23:47:03)

Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:12:50
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
I've persuaded three people to try PlusNet in the last year and they're all delighted. Two came from other ISPs and found the online and especially the phone help top class. One of these had an especial problem of coming from a 45-year-old hard-wired phone system, which threw every other ISP, including BT, when they asked about upgrading this old, socketless system, PlusNet got BT to upgrade at no extra cost, plus we got the vintage phones bask to sell!

Which? get their reliability, customer service, etc. results simply by inviting their members to fill in a survey about their ISP. PlusNet have always been better than OK in these surveys of tens of thousands of people, but this last time, USERS (not Which?) voted them top for customer service and value.

Of course, as someone else has pointed out, every ISP has a small (or with some ISPs bigger) percentage of problems. This can be a poor in-home line system, a poor link to the cabinet, old copper to the exchange (my problem) or a trunk problem - or the ISP may be doing its job badly - they all have at least a few poor employees. What separates the best, like PlusNet and Sky, from the rest is the consistent good service

What sets PlusNet out from the rest is their transparent attitude to general faults (it's all posted online as it progresses) and their superb service help in person, by ticket or by phone. A few years ago (I've been with F9/PlusNet since three months after they started up) I began getting erratic & poor signals and went through the same rigmarole that this thread is highlighting. But I trusted PlusNet to be working on my behalf and they (1) got BT to check my house to pole line - it was OK; and (2) after all tests resolved nothing, PlusNet persuaded BT to reconnect our line at the exchange, without charge. This was a fix, maybe because I have a very old copper line (maybe 80 year old to the exchange) and I think the exchange terminals had corroded. I use BT phone, and BT never suggested any solution until PlusNet pushed them.

I re-evaluate my contract every year, and (what is it) 20? years with PlusNet are because they've been a star all this time. BTW, although BT now own them, they appear to run completely independently.


How dare you have the nerve to point out these obvious ''facts'' as this sort of balanced observation just will not do ...why the tar is getting nicely warmed up and a bag of feathers is ready , bye Gad Sir where is you sense of collective rabble rousing ? ? ?
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:19:37
Print Post

Re: Which?


[re: Oldjim] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oldjim:
Is that the same Which which has apparently rated Windows Defender over all the other Security Packages http://www.which.co.uk/technology/software/reviews/s... whereas the reputable independent testing organisations rate it dead last for protection
http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-8/...
http://www.av-comparatives.org/dynamic-tests/

________________________________________________________________

.....and what's wrong with a picture of Peter Cushing looking very stern or a garland of garlic flowers , pray tell me .... eh ??
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Mon 06-Jan-14 23:40:35
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS trustworthy


[re: KelvinBridge] [link to this post]
 
Nice one, Kelvin!
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 01:24:21
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
Wonderful... maybe you can persuade your friends at Plusnet to get off their backsides and do something about the problem I've been having since before your 3 friends joined?

Because I can't. Once a problem has lasted a certain amount of time, they lose interest and getting any kind of response out of them is nigh on impossible. Seriously, if you want to tell me that "Which" is a reliable source then I wouldn;t use Plusnet as an example, because I have experience of their poor customer service.
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 02:16:59
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Imagine this situation, s_yates. Your ISP (any) has been asked by you to solve a problem with your connection. They honestly try everything that they know (and let's suppose that their expertise is wonderful.) Nothing works, and all their suggestions of other ways you could check the connection - which are out of their control - don't work either. The ISP knows that only a proportion of the problems are anything to do with them, and their expertise tells them that it ain't their fault and there's no more they can do. Some problems go beyond reasonable solution.

Now suppose that their customer won't accept this, and continues to say that whatever is wrong, the ISP and no-one else, is responsible for fixing it, and the customer will smear their name all over the internet if they don't fix it NOW. If you were the ISP, what could you do? I personally don't think there's a polite answer - they've been put in an impossible position. Maybe the customer simply thinks that throwing enough threats and lies will force them to spend silly money to fix what ain't their fault, just to get the nastiness gone. If I were the ISP, I wouldn't be blackmailed like that.

My longstanding problem was nothing to do with PlusNet, yet they spent their engineers' time (which cost them) on trying to find me a fix. They persuaded BT to try a possible solution, and it worked. Would you, s_yates, tell me that they shouldn't have gone that far? It's a bit like blaming your motor engineer for everything that goes wrong with your car, just because they're responsible for servicing it on an annual contract. And yes, a few people do try that. When it's a servicing mistake, that's fine, but if there was an original maker's fault, or something wore out, or you crashed the car, it would be wrong.

PlusNet do make some mistakes, and they do have equipment and software problems occasionally. But compared with other ISPs, they are one of the very best. By far the majority of problems I've encountered over my long time with them (more, I think than anyone who works there now) are either equipment faults which everyone ultimately pays BT to manage, or most of all, problems with your own stuff at home. BT have helped me to sort out many of these over the decades, for free, and in their own time, and even though it wasn't their responsibility. That's GOOD service.

But if you still reckon they've let you down, go through the proper grievance route, as previous posters have outlined. Don't just diss them without evidence. They simply can't make everything right, and the evidence says that they DO manage to get it right more than the competition; in other words, go elsewhere and expect worse. As one person above put it, move to another ISP and the problem will still be there. What have you gained? It's galling to have such a problem, and I'm sympathetic, but your chance of a fix is better with PlusNet than with just about all others. Having said that do keep trying, and talk to them as partners rather than crooks who only want to rob you. Honey wins more help than a gush of bile.
Standard User davidinnotts
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 02:22:58
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Definition of 'Poor Customer Service':

1> The ISP gets more complaints than most.

2> Even though most people are satisfied, they deal badly with a few customers, as evidenced by Ombudsman complaints.

3> I don't care about anyone else; they're rubbish if I have an insoluble problem.

4> All ISPs are rubbish, so they all give poor customer service. I would if I owned one; it's good for profits.

Any more offers?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 09:24:55
Print Post

Re: Which?


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
Shame on you, John!

Their starter offer for new members is standard for the magazine business: a free report (sometimes a trial issue or other goodie) plus three months' free issues, provided you sign a DD or similar contract for monthly issues. You can cancel whenever you like. How is this dishonest, as you're suggesting?

And 'so-called' consumer group? They are recognized nation-wide and internationally as THE Consumer Group,


I just call it as I see it.

Charging people different prices for the same product.... Really honest....

Recognized and used when companies want too...


But we are getting off topic here.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 09:36:11
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by davidinnotts:
Definition of 'Poor Customer Service':

1> The ISP gets more complaints than most.

2> Even though most people are satisfied, they deal badly with a few customers, as evidenced by Ombudsman complaints.

Any more offers?


Customer service only comes into play when people contact them.

Good customer service is how these contacts are resolved by the rep/company.

A issue here is that ALL isp's have to deal with a 3'rd party to get many issues resolved. So with the best will in the world. No matter how good a isp's customer service is. If they are let down by the 3'rd party then there is little they can do.

The biggest issue is how the problems are reported (out of isp's hands) and if the fault is closed by the 3'rd party. Yet the issue is not resolved it has to be opened again. Starting the whole process again.....
Just like a game of ping pong...

As has been said before OP needs to go back to basics and get the phone line side checked out.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Jan-14 10:00:01
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
5>They should be psychic - I've totally failed to explain what my issue actually is but I still expect them to fix it.

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 10:02:47
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
Here is a few more :

>> Blaming a 3rd party (BTOR) for the problemms when that third party has no right of reply
>> Not having any other options when that 3rd party is not to blame.
>> Basing your customer satisfaction survey on a number of people that would better befit a hair products company and claiming it is statistically proven you are better than the competition.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 10:19:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: davidinnotts] [link to this post]
 
Imagine this situation davidinnotts... Your ISP (any) has been asked by you to solve a problem with your connection.
They instantly blame BTOR and arrange to have an engineer sent out.
The engineer fixes a few things but the problem persists.
The ISP blame BTOR again and have another engineer sent out.
The engineer can;t find anything, but replaces a span of line that is just within parameters, but the problem persistes.
The ISP blame BTOR again and have another engineer sent out.
The engineer checks the entire line and can't find any fault, the problem persists.
Repeat the above steps 7 more times.
The final Engineer comes out, rebuilts the line from the exchange to the house, checking the line quality at every junction till the line is well inside the required parameters. The problem persists.
The ISP blame BTOR and want another engineer sent out.
BTOR tell the ISP to sling their hook, as everything has been done on the line, the problem is not with them.
The ISP scratches their head since they have no 3rd party to blame anymore. The problem persists.

So basically, Plusnet's support strategy as I have experienced it, is to blame BT OpenReach as the source of all evil.

Now I'm glad for you Davidinnotts, that you have had good service from them, but stop being such a fanboi and assuming that when people do not get a decent level of support or service that the customer is in the wrong.

As for the "proper grievance channels" , yes you are right. I will be putting an officiial complaint in now. The reason I have not done so as yet is that every time I am forced to bring their lack of interest or ability to a public forum, it suddenly kicks them into a flurry of sctivity for a week or so, lulling you into a false sense of security that they are actually going to do something this time. For example, whilst typing this response to you I have received notification that something has been added to my ticket. I suspect this is in response to the comments I left on their public forums this morning. This time I shall not be so gullible as to believe they are really bothering to look at it.
Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 11:40:41
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
The problem with what you've said is that Openreach are normally the only ones to blame (or possibly BTW) if you have a connection issue.

The connection is nothing to do with PlusNet - they have no equipment (except for the supplied router) until you get to their handover equipment in London, but that would not or shouldn't affect a connection.

If you are getting errors on your line - how are PlusNet at fault? They are reliant on their suppliers (BTW) to get Openreach to fix the problem. Unfortunately, sometimes it is just not cost effective for Openreach to completely replace lengths of copper cabling if there is no issue on the voice side of the line. Openreach can and do say there is nothing more they can do to fix some problems, despite still acknowledging a problem exists.
Standard User alext05
(member) Tue 07-Jan-14 12:07:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Ok folks, everyone has their own experience with Plusnet or any other companies - good or bad. However things need to be put into perspective. Everyone with a problem could have had a perfect connection and enjoyed unlimited internet at very low prices, and anyone with nothing but a praise could have had a problematic one that was difficult to troubleshoot - still at a very low price.

Most would probably have a generally positive/OK experience with a few minor things thrown in (I have had some issues with Plusnet too and I've only been with them for a couple of months, but they have been dealt with and I've moved on).

It is very important not only how the ISP in question deals with the customer service issues, but how you, as a customer, deal with it as well.

It seems that some people spend more energies and time into moaning and ranting rather than dealing with their own individual cases.

My advice to those people would be, log your cases, be helpful in providing necessary info and do the tests. If the problem persists, ask what options are available to you. If nothing can be done, ask if you can move somewhere else at no charge as you believe Plusnet is not delivering what you have expected. I am sure they will either offer you a deal that you can reject or happily allow you to move to a better greener place.

If not, log a formal complaint and deal with it (why not, since you are still under contract and your connection is playing up). Get a deadlock letter and complain to OFCOM, your local MP, ect. In my humble experience of taking formal complaint route (with some other organisations, not Plusnet, I shall add) always resulted in a satisfactory outcome.

Most likely by this time they will want you to move on regardless.

Get a MAC and move on. Brace yourself for another ISP's 100% positive experience.

This would be a constructive and respectful way of dealing with issues.

Edited by alext05 (Tue 07-Jan-14 12:09:54)

Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 12:16:39
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
I once had a issue like yours.
This must have been at least 8 years ago. I at that time was with PlusNet.

In the end after many too & throws of BToR saying nothing wrong with the line. It turned out to be a software issue @ BToR.

The 1st port of call has to be BToR as they are the ones who supply and look after the line. Not sure if they would tackle any LLU issues with the kit in that side of the exchange.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User weldick
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 12:22:29
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Blaming a 3rd party (BTOR) for the problems when that third party has no right of reply

I'm sure many people with issues would love to blame Openreach directly to their many faces and hear their replies if only they were accessible to the end user.
A particular issue I'm thinking of is when an appointment is booked and confirmed and the Openreach engineer fails to turn up.

Edited by weldick (Tue 07-Jan-14 12:25:51)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 07-Jan-14 12:38:25
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: weldick] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by weldick:
A particular issue I'm thinking of is when an appointment is booked and confirmed and the Openreach engineer fails to turn up.
Which for many people means half a day's holiday or pay lost. But if for whatever reason you aren't there when an engineer turns up there's a missed appointment charge by Openreach.

The poster saying Openreach have no right of reply is so far on the wrong side of understanding the relationship between Openreach and its customers (the ISPs) it beggars belief.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 12:43:55
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: weldick] [link to this post]
 
Then you should be well aware of the underlying problems with Plusnet. Days to answer a ticket. Staff without a clue only saved by those that have that drop by here. Incorrect information that is still not updated after years which adds to the poor information given out by customer services. Just broken promises, with the continued upload cap a prime example. Biggest problem for me, was days getting an answer to a ticket, stupid email address format, utterly silly bill breakdown description of line rental and hours on hold on the phone. I will pass on the silly adverts promising top service for peanuts. Nothing has changed to tempt me from the service I now have.

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 13:03:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Diverting from the slagging off of PlusNet, if it really is the case that you are getting no where with fixing your broadband fault (even though it is still not clear to me precisely what you believe the fault to be), I suggest you move to an ISP who can and will take on the fault. This is what I would have done in your case, rather than continuously complain about it.

Not my intention to brag about AAISP on a PlusNet forum, but I suggest you give them a shot and migrate to them. First off, it will be a clean connection with no traffic management (if that is indeed one of the things causing your gaming issues). Be clear and explain to them the nature of your line fault before starting with a migration, so they know a fault exists. If they are unable to fix the fault within 1 month of you moving to them, you can migrate to an alternative ISP at no cost. This is how confident they are of fixing any fault you may have.

Unless you know what you are doing, make sure you avoid their unit based tariffs and opt for a Home::1 package so you do not get any nasty surprises in terms of charges for using your connection heavily during peak-times (Mon-Fri, 9am-6pm).

AAISP monitor your connection every second for as long as it remains connected, and maintain an entire history of this. I know of no other ISP that does this. If a fault occurs, they will have recorded it and are able to gauge from looking at your line monitoring graphs what the problem might be. Worth a shot, in my honest opinion. I experienced a complete line failure a few months ago when laminate flooring was being laid in the living room. I logged a fault with AA and an Openreach engineer was onsite in under 4 hours, and line restored that same evening. This is the only time I have been gobsmacked in the response time in dealing with a line fault - I was half expecting an engineer to take at least a day or two days to come out, not within 4 hours.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 13:15:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
I have already done everything (bar the official complaint to OFCOM) that you have mentioned as the way forward.

I have no obligation to stay with Plusnet, but do not see why I should be forced to move rather than giving me what I pay for.. after all they are the best aren't they?

So, why should I stay quiet? I've done everything I can to assist Plusnet in their investigations and in return I get moved from one advisor to another, each one wanting a "few days" to read through the problem ticket.

If you are not getting the service you are paying for.. you are quite entitled to moan and to warn others that things may not be as good as they first appear to be, after all they may be signing up to a very long contract based on what they are told.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 13:22:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
The connection is nothing to do with PlusNet - they have no equipment (except for the supplied router) until you get to their handover equipment in London, but that would not or shouldn't affect a connection.


When I am having lag problems, I do a tracert to identify where the lag is coming from. Before you get to the Level 3 network in London, you go through several plusnet nodes:

lo0-central10.ptn-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.192]
link-a-central10.ptn-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.136]
xe-5-3-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.108]

Are you saying Plusnet do not own these?

And there is no problem with what I have said. If you can suggest something else that BTOR could do to improve the line, I'm open to your suggestions.
Standard User alext05
(member) Tue 07-Jan-14 13:56:10
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
So, if you have done everything, you must have a deadlock letter that would most likely say that "we have done everything possible to resolve your issue but cannot do so due to whatever". Staying with them after that is a bit of a odd option if the reliable and stable connection is a priority for you.

They have signed you up in good faith expecting to provide the service that might have suddenly developed a fault that they cannot work out how to deal with, not because they don't want to fix it, but because of many other reasons like the lack of expertise, lack of resourses - human or financial, ect.

What it important at this point is that they have exausted all options available to them and they let you know that. Yet you still decide to stay.

So, what is the true reason for staying with Plusnet knowing that they cannot sort your issue?
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 07-Jan-14 14:01:36
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Plusnet support reply

Your line is showing up errors as I've shown below:
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2013-12-27T15:03:21.887+00:00 2013-12-27T15:18:21.887+00:00
Ingress Code Violation 0 0
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 247 74
Severely Errored Seconds 189 41
Unavailable Seconds 0 0

If that quote is consistent, that it shows the errors over a 15 minute period, then that is a high error rate: 247 seconds out of 900 have seen errors, and 189 of those 247 seconds have had a high error count.

That's pretty high - my link has been up for 52 days, and it has averaged 7 ES and well under 1 SES per 15 minutes, and I don't consider it a particularly noise-free line.

I'm surprised that interleaving isn't turned on - especially if that is an "average" sample rather than exceptional.
Standard User WWWombat
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 07-Jan-14 14:10:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
Before you get to the Level 3 network in London, you go through several plusnet nodes:

lo0-central10.ptn-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.192]
link-a-central10.ptn-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.136]
xe-5-3-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.108]

Are you saying Plusnet do not own these?

Plusnet own them, but they are in London.

"ptn" = Telehouse North,
"ptw" = Telehouse West

Both are located in Docklands, next door to each other, and alongside Telehouse East.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 07-Jan-14 14:34:06
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Ofcom do not deal with individual complaints. They only make a note of them and if there is a high volume of similar ones may look into what is going wrong.

The official consumer complaints system laid down by Ofcom is Alternative Dispute Resolution. There are two relevant bodies and all ISPs have to belong to one of them. PlusNet apparently use CICAS. See this page, specifically Section 3. I note there that PlusNet do have a "Complaints Manager". Have you come across such, if there really is one?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Oldjim
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 07-Jan-14 14:39:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It is James Bailey I believe - you may remember him

Edited by Oldjim (Tue 07-Jan-14 14:41:21)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Jan-14 14:54:08
Print Post

Re: Plusnet IS most certainly not trustworthy


[re: weldick] [link to this post]
 
If an engineer fails to attend a booked appointment compensation of £45 is due - see http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefin...

If everybody insisted on getting that payment perhaps the bean counters might think more about reducing the frequency.

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 15:08:01
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Ok there is clearly some confusion here.

Do you have problems with your line (i.e. errors on the line/dropping/DLM kicking in/IP profile being lowered) and/or are your traceroutes showing issues?

When you say lag - is this specific to a game, general browsing or something else? Does it occur at specific times of day or all the time?

You can have bad traceroutes/ping times to servers with a perfectly good line and the fault still lies with BTW. I am on FTTP and have had issues before with terrible pings during peak hours to sites like bbc.co.uk The first time was a 21CN/BTW capacity issue at my exchange (BTW first denied any capacity issues but PN worked with other ISPs to show this was not the case). The second time with bad pings was a PN gateway issue which took some time to diagnose, but they eventually fixed it.

Edited by AndyHCZ (Tue 07-Jan-14 15:10:24)

Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 15:48:09
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: hothands2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by hothands2:
I changed to EE and save alot each month and a much better connection /router .


Is only £4 a month (ex VAT) cheaper with EE. But line rental is £4.25 a month cheaper with PN.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 16:03:16
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
I think you are a tad confused here.

BTOR have given Plusnet a deadlock letter saying they have done everything possible to improve/fix the line. having seen the BTOR Engineers and the tests they performed when working on the line, I do not believe the line is at fault.

I have not had a deadlock letter from Plusnet, hence they have not told me they cannot fix the problem. I also do not believe that they have exhausted all their options either.

So.. I as far as I know, if they put effort into finding what is causing the issue, they could actually fix it. I have invested 16 months of my time to helping Plusnet to resolve this issue and you are advocating giving up?

and please refrain from intimating I am lying... I find that most offensive.
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 16:13:04
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
Originally, before the work done by BTOR, there were frequent drops on the line. It is more difficult for me now to ascertain whether there are still drops occuring as Plusnet have put me on a static IP for monitoring purposes .. see quality graph for the results of this.

The lag does not seem to be tied to a specific application, affecting games and browsing alike. It is worse between 7 pm and 11 pm. There is no indication of congestion at the exchange, at least as far as the tools I have been asked to use has shown.

I hope that like in your case, Plusnet identify the root of the problem, but it seems a bit unlikley at the moment as they are having difficulty maintaining one member of staff on the problem ticket. In addition to around a 1 month delay in answering questions posed via their ticket system.
Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 16:31:05
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
and please refrain from intimating I am lying... I find that most offensive.


I am not implying you are lying at all, I just don't think you know how things work. Where have I advocated giving up?

You are aware that PN have no contact with OpenReach for broadband and everything has to go through BTW?

If you have problems with your line that is affecting your broadband, it cannot be a fault in PlusNet's network. The problem with fixing line problems is they can be extremely difficult to pin-point. If you have intermittent noise on the line affecting your connection, it could be that Openreach will say it is not commercially viable to fix or even locate the problem (if they have sent out numerous engineers already).

It might cost thousands of pounds to replace sections the line to your exchange and even then there are no guarantees it will fix things. There could be something like a faulty street light that is causing electrical interference on your connection. There is even a team within Openreach who check for things like this and apparently they have been able to identify faulty domestic electrical appliances that are causing interference on telephone lines/problems with broadband for people in that area.
Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 16:55:37
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Is there a thread with your problems on the PN forums?

If you are on a 21CN (fibre or ADSL 2+), the congestion tool on the user page only applies for 20CN connections. As far as I am aware, only the CPs have access to the weekly spreadsheets from BTw showing exchange capacity problems. I would hope if your exchange was on that list, someone at PN would have told you by now.

As for the ticket system delays, this is unfortunately a known and increasing problem. It would seem that PN is growing at a faster rate than their support team can currently handle.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 17:35:29
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
I have no obligation to stay with Plusnet, but do not see why I should be forced to move rather than giving me what I pay for.. after all they are the best aren't they?


Why bite off your nose to spite your face.

In reply to a post by s_yates:
So, why should I stay quiet? I've done everything I can to assist Plusnet in their investigations and in return I get moved from one advisor to another, each one wanting a "few days" to read through the problem ticket.


You cannot expect to have the same person deal with your issues. Like many they will work shifts, maybe over 3 or 4 days. So you would end up waiting even longer for replies. They also may even have different levels of support. So if its not resolved in the 1st place it is passed up the line to the more experienced staff to deal with.

In reply to a post by s_yates:
If you are not getting the service you are paying for.. you are quite entitled to moan and to warn others that things may not be as good as they first appear to be, after all they may be signing up to a very long contract based on what they are told.


You are but one voice in thousands that are happy.

No matter which isp you use even AA. You will find someone who is not happy with the way they are treated.
Sadly it is very uncommon to here someone saying just how good the service is, compared to someone who is unhappy.

But the fact you have NOT left speaks far more than all your words about how bad the service is.....

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 17:47:55
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
I logged a fault with AA and an Openreach engineer was onsite in under 4 hours, and line restored that same evening. This is the only time I have been gobsmacked in the response time in dealing with a line fault - I was half expecting an engineer to take at least a day or two days to come out, not within 4 hours.


Are you a business customer?

Review center

2 out of 7 posts are complaints.

Andrews & Arnold have left me without internet connectivity for over a week now. Calls to Support, when they are answered, are met with requests to simply reboot the router or promises to call BT and then get back to me.

They never get back to me.


Very dissappointed with Andrews and Arnold Broadband Internet perhaps I have been unlucky I dont know but found thecustomer service not great at all.
Speeds are very bad and after a good period of time 8 weeks have decided it best to part company with them.
I would not recommend this isp at all they just seem to be unable to resolve problems and whilst BT are bearing the blame in lots of cases what really is not good is the calls which are promised and never materialise.


Just don't look at the plusnet ones.....

Clearly some people do not want to pay such prices as AA charge, for something you can get far cheaper.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User alext05
(member) Tue 07-Jan-14 17:52:11
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
Not sure who is confused here, as I am only dealing in known facts (and by the way I am not trying to have a go at you, my initial reply to you was rather a generic observation to all taking part in the discussion). I do complaint myself a bit and think too that raising a valid point in the forums is a good way to share a problem and find a solution.

I don't know the nitty-gritty of your case, but what I do know is that you said that "I have already done everything (bar the official complaint to OFCOM) that you have mentioned as the way forward." Would it be reasonable for me or indeed anyone to assume that you got a deadlock letter from Plusnet, if you followed everything on this page at http://www.plus.net/support/service/policies/complai... ? I think so.

The deadlock letter would have given you in writing the final position of Plusnet on the issue, and it would have been up to you to make a decision on whether to carry on staying knowing that they cannot do anything to resolve it or to move somewhere else.

So if you don't have a deadlock letter from Plusnet, it might be a good time to ask for one. This could be a final push they need to resolve your problem.

In any way, you will get in writing their position, and you can take them to court or use it to complaint to CISAS, or even post it here for us to see what they said, so we can discuss if they have really done everything possible to help you.

So, I am not advocating in giving up just yet, but I do advocate to get a deadlock letter and then make your decision based on what it will say.

As for intimating that you are lying, well, I find it surprising that you have been unhappy with the service provided by Plusnet for many months yet still choose to stay.

So if you genuinely want to stay and help your ISP to sort this problematic issue on your line, perhaps it's a time to take a step back, let them deal with it and at the same time proceed with any official channels still available to you to get the definite answer on whether it can be resolved by Plusnet or not.

I wish you all the best with this.
Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Tue 07-Jan-14 17:54:15
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JohnR:
Clearly some people do not want to pay such prices as AA charge, for something you can get far cheaper.
Really? Where can you get the same level of service and support expertise as AA for a cheaper price?

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 17:55:51
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
go back and read my previous posts.. you will find all of thee answers to your flawed statements there.

as for the "thousands that are happy" back this up with something substantial. I'm only stating that I am unhappy and advising of my experiences, not claiming that the majority of Plusnet's customers are unhappy. What are you trying to say?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:02:17
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
as for the "thousands that are happy" back this up with something substantial.
Well currently there appear to be about 677,000 customers online. (Modem powered up and connected, not necessarily in active use). One can safely assume thousands of those are happy smile. Possibly several hundred thousand.

The bottom graph on this page.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:04:49
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JohnR:
Are you a business customer?


They have provisioned me a business PSTN line (worded as such on their portal), so maybe the line is of that grade. But I'm not a business customer; FTTC service is at a residential address.
In reply to a post by JohnR:
Clearly some people do not want to pay such prices as AA charge, for something you can get far cheaper.

Couldn't agree more with you. Clearly some people also wish to continue paying a company that either cannot or will not provide a fault free broadband service, and wish to waste their time and energy dealing with an organisation that only aggravates them. Solution? Move to a provider that has a reputation for fixing faults. AA is one such provider. But it doesn't have to be them, I'm sure there are other such ISPs that are also capable (Zen, who I've also previously been with).

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:10:11
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alext05:
Not sure who is confused here, as I am only dealing in known facts (and by the way I am not trying to have a go at you, my initial reply to you was rather a generic observation to all taking part in the discussion). I do complaint myself a bit and think too that raising a valid point in the forums is a good way to share a problem and find a solution.

I don't know the nitty-gritty of your case, but what I do know is that you said that "I have already done everything (bar the official complaint to OFCOM) that you have mentioned as the way forward." Would it be reasonable for me or indeed anyone to assume that you got a deadlock letter from Plusnet, if you followed everything on this page at http://www.plus.net/support/service/policies/complai... ? I think so.

The deadlock letter would have given you in writing the final position of Plusnet on the issue, and it would have been up to you to make a decision on whether to carry on staying knowing that they cannot do anything to resolve it or to move somewhere else.

So if you don't have a deadlock letter from Plusnet, it might be a good time to ask for one. This could be a final push they need to resolve your problem.

In any way, you will get in writing their position, and you can take them to court or use it to complaint to CISAS, or even post it here for us to see what they said, so we can discuss if they have really done everything possible to help you.

So, I am not advocating in giving up just yet, but I do advocate to get a deadlock letter and then make your decision based on what it will say.

As for intimating that you are lying, well, I find it surprising that you have been unhappy with the service provided by Plusnet for many months yet still choose to stay.

So if you genuinely want to stay and help your ISP to sort this problematic issue on your line, perhaps it's a time to take a step back, let them deal with it and at the same time proceed with any official channels still available to you to get the definite answer on whether it can be resolved by Plusnet or not.

I wish you all the best with this.

___________________________________________________________

quote > ''perhaps it's a time to take a step back,''


How can he possibly ''take a step back'' because being in the Lime-light for so long is so dreadfully addictive , he did modestly say , quote > ''I've done everything I can to assist Plusnet in their investigations '' and this >>'' I also do not believe that they have exhausted all their options either.
So.. I as far as I know, if they put effort into finding what is causing the issue, they could actually fix it. ''''


So an Expert of his calibre is as rare as a perfect ISP !!!!
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:18:22
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alext05:
I don't know the nitty-gritty of your case, but what I do know is that you said that "I have already done everything (bar the official complaint to OFCOM) that you have mentioned as the way forward." Would it be reasonable for me or indeed anyone to assume that you got a deadlock letter from Plusnet, if you followed everything on this page at http://www.plus.net/support/service/policies/complai... ? I think so.


Sorry, my misreading of what you said. There are two stages in that.. the official complaint to Plusnet, resulting eventually in a deadlock letter and the taking of that further (to CISAS in this case, not OFCOM).
I have not yet put in an official complaint to Plusnet, the reasons are given below, but am about to do so as I can;t see any other way forward.

In reply to a post by alext05:
So, I am not advocating in giving up just yet, but I do advocate to get a deadlock letter and then make your decision based on what it will say.

As for intimating that you are lying, well, I find it surprising that you have been unhappy with the service provided by Plusnet for many months yet still choose to stay.


As promised.. why I have not yet gone through the complaint channels... The cycle that this has been going through is that there is generally a time of some action by Plusnet, in which the staff show an interest in your problem. After a while though, it all goes quiet and you are left poking and prodding them to do something with very little response through the ticketting system. You then go and let off steam on the public forums, which brings the response of a "we are very sorry, we will look into it" and you start the cycle again.

Up till now, I have given them the benefit of the doubt, each time thinking maybe it will be different this time. Last time I got a guy from their community team who really knew his stuff and was convinced that this time it would be it.... then they took him off to answer phones (which I only found out about a couple of weeks after it had happened).

So yes... maybe I've been taken in by Plusnet and their "We will do you proud" slogan and given them a lot more latitude than I should have and also been taken in by the "it's all openreach's fault" brigade until the last (11th) engineer visit I had towards the end of last year when they redid the line from the exchange to the house and the problem was still unresolved.

I'm sure you can understand that when the choice of provider is limited, it is sometimes worth digging your heels in, in the hope of actually seeing results for the effort that you have made, especially when you are still being led to believe that the line is at fault.

In reply to a post by alext05:
I wish you all the best with this.


Thank you
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:18:37
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Actually, regarding the business PSTN line, I bet AA provisioned it as a business grade line via BT as it is AA I pay the line rental to and the fault was clearly a line fault. If I had the line installed via BT directly, with AA FTTC on top, the response would have no way been 4 hours.

So it seems AA provision business grade lines as standard if you take on line rental directly through them. Not unreasonable. Though would need to check if they do the same on a Home::1 connection as that is strictly supposed to be residential only; they do not issue VAT invoices on that package.

Now on <aaisp.net> (21CN+IPv6+40Mb/FTTC)
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:18:55
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jelv:
Really? Where can you get the same level of service and support expertise as AA for a cheaper price?


From my personal experience. Any of the isp's in my profile I have used.

I have only ever had 2 issues. One on migration from F2s to PlusNet. Which took a while to resolve, but turned out to be a BT software issue.
The other was with 02 when the line went down and was fixed within 24 hours. On 02 I was paying £7.50 a month.

Remember that the vast majority of people never contact support at all.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:20:11
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: KelvinBridge] [link to this post]
 
I take it that the Bridge in Kelvinbridge is the one under which the troll lives then?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:25:56
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mixt:
AA FTTC on top, the response would have no way been 4 hours.

So it seems AA provision business grade lines as standard if you take on line rental directly through them. Not unreasonable.


So if a business line it then has a fix SLA from 2 days to under 6 hours depending on the line package.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User s_yates
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:27:45
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
In reply to a post by s_yates:
and please refrain from intimating I am lying... I find that most offensive.


I am not implying you are lying at all, I just don't think you know how things work. Where have I advocated giving up?

That was a reply to Alext05 which has been resolved now, not pointed at you at all.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:
If you have problems with your line that is affecting your broadband, it cannot be a fault in PlusNet's network. The problem with fixing line problems is they can be extremely difficult to pin-point. If you have intermittent noise on the line affecting your connection, it could be that Openreach will say it is not commercially viable to fix or even locate the problem (if they have sent out numerous engineers already).

It might cost thousands of pounds to replace sections the line to your exchange and even then there are no guarantees it will fix things. There could be something like a faulty street light that is causing electrical interference on your connection. There is even a team within Openreach who check for things like this and apparently they have been able to identify faulty domestic electrical appliances that are causing interference on telephone lines/problems with broadband for people in that area.


yes.. after 16 months of this, including this being passed to the REIN team in Openreach and investigated (there is no indication of electricall interference) and also having, as mentioned before, the entire line checked from the exchange up to the master socket in the house, I am completely aware of this.

So, you are saying that there is still an issue with the line?
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:39:09
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by s_yates:
I take it that the Bridge in Kelvinbridge is the one under which the troll lives then?


*******************************************

I have no problem quoting people's own words, which are always their responsibility > quote >

'' and given them a lot more latitude than I should have and also been taken in by the "it's all openreach's fault" brigade until the last (11th) engineer visit I had towards the end of last year when they redid the line from the exchange to the house and the problem was still unresolved.''

so with the complete certainty of your assement, of your situation, one has to wonder why you bother to share YOUR martyrdom with us ?

If as you have claimed in various way Plusnet are so ''indefensibly bad '' now you have a New Telephone line won't BT now be the preferred ISP for you ?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 07-Jan-14 18:40:50
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Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: s_yates] [link to this post]
 
I think what is being said is that there is a noise issue affecting the line. Often called a line problem, as opposed to a hardware problem or an ISP problem or a congestion problem. REIN engineers do not always find this as it could be anywhere between you and the exchange.

Similarly, a line problem is often construed as meaning a line fault.

The argument seems to have become overheated on both sides in this forum, on a subject where the scope for a misunderstanding is wide. In my view the only sensible way forward for you is a written complaint to the PlusNet Complaints Manager, who although I gave you the page with the address on I admit I didn't know existed until I went looking for the complaints procedure.

I think in your position I would have done that looking and writing earlier, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and stepping back in time is not possible.

Best to get on with it smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 19:39:41
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: headscratcher] [link to this post]
 
Strange love affair here with Plusnet. As for awards, they will have a job to match Zen. Not all sites so loved up with Plusnet.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forumdisplay.php/96-...

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png

Edited by professor973 (Tue 07-Jan-14 19:40:12)

Standard User Galoka
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 20:18:34
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by professor973:
Strange love affair here with Plusnet. As for awards, they will have a job to match Zen. Not all sites so loved up with Plusnet.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forumdisplay.php/96-...


love affair? - if most people are happy with the service they get should they not say so.?

Not sure what that link is supposed to show.. a few threads over 6 months with a few unhappy people. - doesn't really tell us anything much, anymoe than this thread does.

FWIW I think the large ISP's are all pretty much of a muchness, most of the time the service works ok, some people have problems, and for some people the CS side of things fails them. Look through forums and review sites and you will find similar complaints about them all.

These things also tend to go in cycles it seems - I suspect related to growth of the business - in this case it's pretty clear Plusnets CS provision hasn't kept pace with their customer growth.

I think the same happens in any large scale consumer business - eg. energy companies.

And no, they probably aren't s good as Zen, or AAISP for example, but then moving to Plusnet (in process, FTTC should be provisioned next week) was a lot cheaper for me than either of those (price and cashback promotion). But I'm under no ilusion that you to an extent get what you pay for. But in the last almost9 years since we moved here I've been through 4 or 5 ISP's I've been generally happy with all of them. Once have I had to contact CS(O2 a couple of years ago) and that was sorted fine
Standard User alext05
(member) Tue 07-Jan-14 20:19:52
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
Not a love affair here, just helping people use the right channels to get their individual problems fixed quicker.

As for Zen, my brief stay with them wasn't entirely positive and the feeling that you are paying over the top for having issues you could have had somewhere else cheaper hardly enchanced my mood.

The knowledge that they won many awards at the time wasn't particularly helpful either.

Everyone has their own experiences, you see.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Tue 07-Jan-14 20:44:47
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by professor973:
Strange love affair here with Plusnet. As for awards, they will have a job to match Zen. Not all sites so loved up with Plusnet.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forumdisplay.php/96-...


"http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png"

Nice ping blush Do you live in London?
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 21:06:29
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy *DELETED*


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by professor973
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 21:09:21
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
No Deepest Suffolk. Last on all B.T lists

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Tue 07-Jan-14 21:17:07
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Galoka] [link to this post]
 
Plenty more links. How many do you want? http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.plus.net
I agree many are a muchness, but there are some with superb customer service. None can help BTOR rickets. Just stating a fact, that this site favors Plusnet more than most other sites, despite having one tenth the number of members compared to B.T but usually more posts in PN forum. Anyway, I'm not going to argue about it, after suffering many, I am now happy with my suppliers. Those that know know me, know that it takes a good ISP to stop me grumbling smile

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png

Edited by professor973 (Tue 07-Jan-14 21:20:23)

Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 08-Jan-14 00:33:01
Print Post

Re: Plusnet is not trustworthy: or can no-one ever be?


[re: KelvinBridge] [link to this post]
 
I cant exactly say that is helping much...

Now with plusnet
Twitter
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Wed 08-Jan-14 14:05:03
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
I've just read the engineers notes from yesterdays visit and apparently he wasn't able to access the master socket? I thought he was going to be able to do this as that was the point of the visit.

Without the engineer being able to do the tests he needs, we're really not going to be able to do much here.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User brightd
(experienced) Wed 08-Jan-14 14:35:49
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
Chris, you have responded to yourself so the OP will not have received an e-mail notification of your comment.

David

plusnet Unlimited customer
DrayTek Vigor 2830n
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Wed 08-Jan-14 14:41:28
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: brightd] [link to this post]
 
Doh! Thanks.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Wed 08-Jan-14 14:42:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Hi Blim,

Please see my reply here.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/unhappiness/t/42941...

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email

Edited by chrisparr (Wed 08-Jan-14 14:43:31)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Wed 08-Jan-14 15:29:36
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
Engineer did not show, my window over looks the road and I didn't see anything too.

He did today but nothing was booked and I wasn't available frown

I will ring PN before the end of the day.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Wed 08-Jan-14 15:34:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
@professor973

Wow, I'm closer than you and on fibre (fttc) and I have 3 times your ping. Amazing.
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Wed 08-Jan-14 15:34:51
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
So he turned up on the wrong day, sorry about that. I'll speak to the other Chris that's been dealing with your fault ticket.

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Wed 08-Jan-14 15:50:48
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
As I have said, very happy bunny now. Good speeds, good customer service and in no hurry for fibre.

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 08-Jan-14 16:20:28
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chrisparr:
So he turned up on the wrong day, sorry about that.
In which case his notes are interesting? He didn't turn up, says he couldn't access the master, (not nobody in), and turns up the next day. Or are the notes for some previous visit?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Sat 11-Jan-14 15:12:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
The overhead line has been replaced. I didn't think of asking the engineer if he could perform a line reset as interleaving had kicked in.

How long do I need to wait for the line to reset its self?


Thought id just add, the engineer was very friendly and did a tidy job. I was very thankful of his work.
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Sat 11-Jan-14 17:21:26
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
The overhead line has been replaced. I didn't think of asking the engineer if he could perform a line reset as interleaving had kicked in.

How long do I need to wait for the line to reset its self?


Thought id just add, the engineer was very friendly and did a tidy job. I was very thankful of his work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Plusnet support pages might be able to help you :>>

........but some people think that they are Untrustworthy ?


http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...



5. Dynamic Line Management (DLM)

DLM is an automated system that manages the performance of your broadband service.

For 10 days after broadband activation, DLM will test your line to find the best balance between speed and reliability. Speed during this time can vary and your broadband may drop out occasionally (it should return immediately).

After 10 days, small changes in speed can occur (as DLM reacts to changing conditions) but your line speed should remain relatively stable.

In the event of problems (e.g. line errors or frequent disconnections), DLM will reduce your sync to a level that allows for a stable connection. This allows you to continue using your broadband during problems, albeit at a lower connection speed.

Once the problem is fixed, your sync speed should return to normal quickly. When your sync speed returns the IP profile you’ll receive depends on the broadband product:

21CN products: the IP Profile is calculated each time your line syncs
20CN products: the IP Profile will be recalculated after your line is deemed stable (up to 3 days without disconnection)
BT send us reports of profile changes several times a day, so speeds should return to normal once we've updated our system with the new profile (usually within 24 hours).

DLM is the main reason that we advise you to leave your router switched on, as turning it off frequently can cause DLM to think there's a problem and reduce your speed.

Remember: DLM reacts to problems on your line rather than fixing them. If your IP profile or sync speed fluctuate regularly, there may be a line fault or something causing interference.

See our Broadband speed tips guide for help tracking down the problem.

[Top]
ISP Representative chrisparr
(isp) Tue 14-Jan-14 16:38:25
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
How's the connection performing since the dropwire was replaced?

Chris Parr
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User blimsta
(newbie) Thu 16-Jan-14 00:56:49
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
Not disconnecting every time the wind blows or it rains is great. I was wondering if we could talk about some sort of refund from when my line was unable to provide me the server I was paying for?

I'm still seeing peering problems to some major gaming servers in NL(ps2) and US (steam). level 3 really are bad, people who used to play in my server from the us would get 80ms ping on a good day. now its 300-600ms ping. I know these guys and I never used to get these problems

This hole peering problem is wellllllll over my head. Don't even bother asking me what I think. It just makes p2p netcode games suck because the game play relies on your ping. But unlike server side netcodes that relies on your ping to a server of your choice. With p2p netcode, Its about your ping to individual connections per player in the game. So every so often a person instagib kills you when that's not meant to happen. Many problems have been manifested without making a list...

Should I blame PN for the peering problems or is it a design fault in most new games today. I say yes and yes but I have exhausted my self doing so.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 16-Jan-14 11:00:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
So the main issue was not of PN's doing but a bit of cable that was never envisaged to carry the data that you want it to.

If gaming is SO important then pay for a leased line with an SLA when issues strike.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 11:32:01
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
damn I thought I was dyslexic.


I pay for my line to PN.

No the line problem cutting out and having peak time latency problems just took ages (years) to fix. Lag to servers in EU due to a bad link from one of PN's ISP's hasn't yet been fixed.

Please read my post rather than post irrelevant posts. "fountain of knowledge"!?!

Edited by blimsta (Thu 16-Jan-14 11:36:00)

Standard User AndyHCZ
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 11:42:03
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
The peering problem (if it is that rather than a game design problem) is something that needs to be raised with the gaming companies. It is as much a problem for BT Infinity users as it is for PlusNet users.

A lot of gaming forums are littered with people having high ping/lag issues when gaming.

Level3 does seem to be a common link in the UK, but I do not know how this is fixed. I would imagine the gaming companies have to talk to them maybe or pay for some kind of service level?
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 12:02:44
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: AndyHCZ] [link to this post]
 
After reading the problems/conflicts the big IPS's have with each other which is a problem all of its own. I think the game developers are being very ignorant to use this type of netcode.


Who's going to take responsibility for this? The p2p netcode is a great idea but not with the problems we are having with peering links between these big ISP's.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jan-14 12:27:44
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Guaranteed latency and packet loss between a home in the UK and a random link elsewhere in Europe or the USA is why leased lines exist and paying enough that people get a dedicated person to ensure their routing to peers is as good as it can be, i.e. think banker spending a fortune to be able to trade a ms or two faster than other people.

This is well beyond the realm of someone paying £20 per month to a consumer level ISP.

Peering can cost handsome amounts of money and while direct peering can be cheap, if you are heading to other countries then you build a complex pyramid.

Issue is that P2P gaming code will work nicely in a campus environment, but take it to the real world in any country and the difference can be significant. Hence why some firms still go the more expensive route of hosted servers that can at least be controlled more.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 14:51:41
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
why leased lines exist and paying enough that people get a dedicated person to ensure their routing to peers is as good as it can be


Are PN's suppliers unable to provide this to PN? because PN already prioritizes gaming traffic and should already have this affect?

Edited by blimsta (Thu 16-Jan-14 14:53:56)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jan-14 14:56:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Any prioritisation by PlusNet will end at the edge of their network.

The phrase supplier does not really apply to peering, as PlusNet do not buy capacity that links to every datacentre in the world, but has peering agreements and it is those that may have highly variable levels of contention and latency.

If you want guaranteed latency and throughput to Amsterdam for example then you are well past the consumer realm and into the corporate world of peering agreements and all the associated costs.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 15:30:11
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I couldn't agree more. So the responsibility lies with PN.

Its up to them to offer a router for traffic such as p2p gaming.

One gamer per leased line is residuals, you could get 30+ people playing online games at once on a leased line. Isn't that the hole point in a ISP to distribute such big amount of bandwidth for something so expensive.

I personally think PN shouldn't offer a service for playing games especially when it comes to consoles as that where the p2p game code comes from.

Edited by blimsta (Thu 16-Jan-14 15:31:45)

Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Thu 16-Jan-14 16:39:14
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
You haven't actually understood a word MrSaffron has said! frown

jelv

Plusnet user since November 2001 - not sure for how much longer

Edited by jelv (Thu 16-Jan-14 16:51:12)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 16-Jan-14 16:51:01
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
No. He is saying if you want a dedicated line to your game server, with perfect peering, it is going to cost you thousands a year. From what you say about other people, you aren't the only one (on other ISPs) with the same problem to the particular server you use? That sounds like the server's fault to me.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Thu 16-Jan-14 18:56:48
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
MrSaffron.

Interesting conversation.

Its a shame this has to be so complicated, at least I'm not a console gaming, as with PC gaming you get the choice (some games) to use server-side games.


What I was trying to say was, a ISP COULD provide a rout and divert selective traffic rather than individuals having to pay out for a leased line.

In other works ISP's will have to adapt to the changes of its users at the least if it wont to advertise for gamers. Times change, I remember when I could play online with no problems and that was back in the days of dial-up and then cable (fttc) but this change, the internet is loaded with rubbish (in my eyes) and the old get pushed out.

p2p gaming is the new thing, can your ISP provide you with the connection you need?

I understand to the point that I have no more to say, as I've already stated I'm well over my head with this. We get told how it is and pay the bill, end of.

Thanks.

Last thing. I was never told this was the problem, I had to work this out my self. Hence the title.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jan-14 19:26:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
An ISP can only really control its own network, once you go to the first peering link you are then dependent on an ever increasing list of people.

You seem to want something that no ISP on the planet offers to the consumer market.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jan-14 19:32:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
The only way to really control things is a LAN party, beyond that unless you are willing to pay for absolute dedicated capacity between your home and a site that may be different every few days, then you are not going to get perfection.

If playing with server code where one other player hosts the server then you should do the following:

1. Ensure all players are in the same country at least
2. Better to ensure they are all on the same provider
3. Ensure everyone is using the same router and their latency to the core network is within 1-2ms of each other
4. Pester the coders who write the net code to give you appropriate filtering operations

Buying a high volume low margin internet connection no matter how good the ISP tries to be will always have moments of annoyance and drop outs. That is why critical applications do not use ACK'less protocols or implement a suitable control mechanism to take into account the odd lost/delayed packet.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 17-Jan-14 13:59:23
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
only just seen this thread and read up to the post ignition mentions me.

My experience so far is I think I remember seeing congestion one of the early nights I was migrated I think new years day or day after. It wasnt heavy congestion. I did see some jitter but not large amounts on ssh sessions which went away when I upgraded to pro. I didnt upgrade to pro because of the jitter tho as it wasnt significant but because I had some packetloss, I plan to cancel pro to see if the issue remains as it could have been caused by something else, I dont feel its conclusive yet.

In terms of speeds, even before I got pro I didnt have any significant issues, netflix worked fine, speedtests were generally fine, and external ftp (which is silver traffic) was almost at line rate.

In terms of peering I have seen what I consider worser performance than I had on BT but defenitly not the worst I have seen, I still get respectable speeds from america, and the peering issue I seen from germany may not be plusnet's fault. That issue goes away on ipv6 as that uses different routing. But on ipv4 its been fine for the past week or so as well everytime I checked.

Ignition is right I am sensitive to issues and I havent found anything to moan about performance wise that I could confidently say is congestion at this time. Certianly mainstream services work fine, iplayer, netflix, youtube, 4od etc. Plus ping jitter is lower than BT due to how BT were round robin traffic across different routes in my area, although BT's jitter was nothing of note, about 1ms.

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Jan-14 14:59:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
"The Fountain Of Knowledge" is automatic after a number of posts.

Don't think PN put your line in. It may have been the GPO many years ago and was only for making telephone calls.

So did you have a bad drop cable or not?

No ISP guarantees that individual lines are suitable for any type of internet traffic.

Surely it's only a game!!!!!


Edited: Just read the rest of the posts and you don't attack others for stating what I said. You may not like some of the answers to your predicament but that's life!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk

Edited by broadband66 (Fri 17-Jan-14 15:05:08)

Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Jan-14 00:08:35
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
There is an old saying about peanuts and monkeys, well I think in all honesty I pay peanuts for an unlimited usage BB connection in 2014, I don't do gaming so can't say boo to PN regarding that but for my type of internet usage Plusnet are more than OK.

Download speed isn't fast as the direct connection to the exchange is nearly six kilometres away ....... with no cabinets in sight [sigh]

Alastair
plusnet
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Sun 19-Jan-14 18:53:34
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
For the sake of human intelligence could you please look up the definition of a ISP and try to apply that to our understanding of a connection worthy of gaming on.

Collective thinking is a powerful tool. Collective confusion isn't smile
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 19-Jan-14 20:01:28
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
For the sake of human intelligence could you please look up the definition of a ISP


ISP

Stands for "Internet Service Provider." In order to connect to the Internet, you need an ISP. It is the company that you (or your parents) pay a monthly fee to in order to use the Internet. If you use a dial-up modem to connect to your ISP, a point-to-point protocol (PPP) connection is established with another modem on the ISP's end. That modem connects to one of the ISP's routers, which routes you to the Internet "backbone." From there, you can access information from anywhere around the world. DSL and cable modems work the same way, except after you connect the first time, you are always connected.


After a google of "definition of a ISP"
No 3 hit...
is my favourite. smile

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 14:49:55
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: chrisparr] [link to this post]
 
An update for you chrisparr.

I was playing Planetside 2 last night with a friend while using chat program to talk with.

It turns out there is a second delay with things that are happening on his screen to mine. But I did say before I was getting less problems playing on a 3G connection over my Plusnet Fibre connection.

He is playing on BT adsl2+.

I didn't think it was this bad for other people because why would everyone be playing the game? plus no one else is reporting problems like mine.


In game-
This is what happened, I was healing the sunderer my friend was in and basically he started shouting at me to move it back in the shielded area because it was taking damage. Not on my screen but a second after he sed that it just instantly blow up.

PS. so nothing has changed, line wasn't to blame and now it been replaced you can't point the finger at BT.

Edited by blimsta (Mon 20-Jan-14 14:50:40)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 20-Jan-14 15:30:26
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
ISP gives access to the internet...... no more, no less.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 16:21:35
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Distribution.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Jan-14 16:34:44
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Distribution of what?

Organisations like LoNAP, Linx along with large transit providers do the bulk of distributing content between the internet service providers.

With dedicated gaming services it is easier as an operation like Xbox Live could partner to include some content on CDN devices in the larger providers networks. Or for example in the case of video, direct peering is set up between the ISP and the hosts own datacentre servers.

No ISP can afford the time and money to macro manage connections to data centres or end-users of one of the thousands ISP's spread across Europe. If you had a contract for linking 2000 offices across Europe and paid the market rate for the support then you might get specific tunnels/routing with pre-defined metrics.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 16:51:25
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
funny that because when I want to connect my computer to the router I just use a cable, not words lol
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Jan-14 16:54:30
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
So where exactly do you want PlusNet to run this Ethernet cable from and too?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 17:08:29
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Id hope they could work that out by them self!?!
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 17:23:08
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
.......but surely 1 cable couldn't possibly be enough for All of your simple needs ??
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 20-Jan-14 17:36:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Id hope they could work that out by them self!?!


I'm sure they could.... Just not for what you are paying.......

How much Ethernet cable would you get for your monthly charge? How far to your friend?

Get the jist.......

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:00:12
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
can we cut the bs?

Edited by blimsta (Mon 20-Jan-14 18:04:49)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:00:15
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Plus an Ethernet cable will only run a distance of 100m before you run the risk of problems.

To others reading this, even in data centres getting a dedicated cable run between two floors can be an expensive and time consuming task. Let alone doing it to respond to the needs of one demanding consumer who is under the belief their monthly fee is the equivalent of what a firm like Sony would spend to ensure a good connection between a popular network and their game servers.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:03:45
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
To others reading this: MrSaffron is suggesting ISP's use Ethernet cables to connect long distances over the internet (not fibre?).
How this has any relevance, just a diversion from the point at hand maybe?

ok its clear you guys cant be trusted too.


The staff from thinkbroadband say we cant play game over the internet so I guess thats that.

thinkbroadband.com suggests UK ISP's cant provide customers with a connection for gaming.

thinkbroadband.com suggests any ISP advertising for gamers are also untrustworthy.]


Your words not mine, or we could stop talking [censored] maybe?

Edited by blimsta (Mon 20-Jan-14 18:23:22)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:24:27
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Is this the kind of stupidity that got you banned from the PlusNet forums?

You have used a lot of sarcasm in your posts.

You clearly haven't a clue what you are on about and it is you talking "bs" as you put it. It's amazing that you have had so many very knowledgeable people as you have trying to explain things to you.

I think it quite possible that one of two things is the problem you have.

Either somewhere on your line or in your home something is screwing up your gaming. It could even be a plasma TV against the adjoining wall of your neighbour. Or an indoor gym machine. Or a faulty Sky box. Or a host of similar things.

You probably don't even realise what you have posted, which amounts to saying ISPs should provide you with a dedicated connection direct to your game host server and/or direct to your friend's router. (Quite how that would fit in with his router being connected to his own ISP is of course only a tiny and easily solved little complication. Quite apart from which there is a fair chance it would make no difference).

What is absolutely obvious is that any chance of getting your gaming issues resolved, if indeed they are resolvable, went out of the window ages ago. Unless you stop being so pig-headed and listen.

For instance, in the last few posts you've thrown in some specific games, though I don't think you have mentioned any particular game servers. Have you ever listed to PlusNet the ones you use, including any that work fine as well as the ones that don't? (Saying which is which, in case that wouldn't occur to you frown).

If you've never been asked, which would be unusual, it won't be from any deliberate omission by PlusNet. It will be because you post such reams of incomprehensible garbage and spite that people can't see the wood for the trees.

Get a grip, and you might get somewhere. Throw clever-dickedness and sarcasm around and you bring about your own doom.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:30:47
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Care to link to the posts where I said those exact words?

.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:31:42
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
How do you guys sleep at night?


I'm not the one deliberately taking what people say out of context.

I have nothing more to say because you are wrong sir.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:34:04
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Care to link to the posts where I said those exact words?

.


You have just told me I cant get the connection I'm asking for along with taking everything I say out of context.

I can play game fine on a 3g connection and my friend is able to play fine on the same exchange?


Sorry who does not understand?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:34:56
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Easy read books like this

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:37:13
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
I think this is very clear cut.

Same exchange, 3 different ISP's. One cant provide a gaming connection the other two can.

You suggest its to do with Ethernet cables in a data-center?


I don't think its me that doesn't understand.
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:55:38
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Same exchange, 3 different ISP's. One cant provide a gaming connection the other two can.

It would be interesting for others who are looking to get a "good gaming ISP" to know who the other two ISPs are that can actually provide a gaming connection that you would like to get from PN? smile

Alastair
plusnet
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:58:44
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by blimsta:
I can play game fine on a 3g connection and my friend is able to play fine on the same exchange?

One cant provide a gaming connection the other two can.

Sorry who does not understand?


So in your connections, there are at several diffrences
ISP.
Line
Distance
Set up.

You seen content that it is the ISP that is at fault. NOT that there are many other factors that you have looked at and done anything about.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 18:59:50
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
One of them was a phone connected via usb with a 3g connection from three (http://www.three.co.uk/) the other was BT adsl2+.

That's right, a 3g connection is better than my fibre connection from PN.

Edited by blimsta (Mon 20-Jan-14 19:00:09)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 20-Jan-14 19:02:29
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Has your connection at this address ever been OK, with any ISP?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 19:08:26
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
I think in the 2+ years I've had this problem most other things have been covered.

Computer being connected direct to the modem rules out firewall or router problems?

A reinstall of windows/Linux and a new PC rules out the PC or OS?

New drop down line, new modems, new cables, new Ethernet card and windows tweaks...

The only thing I haven't tried yet and not sure if it would help is a VPN to try root around the problem if that was the case. Not sure if this would help?
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Mon 20-Jan-14 19:13:25
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Has your connection at this address ever been OK, with any ISP?


Yes, with PN before they went fibre unlimited. I used to only get problems around 10pm-12pm.

The only time my connection works like it did before the above is 4am every night!


My second post says it all:
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1121...


@RobertoS You can say sorry now for calling me pig headed. I think the word you are looking for is frustrated with the lies.

Edited by blimsta (Mon 20-Jan-14 19:21:26)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 20-Jan-14 19:37:00
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Nobody lies to you here or on the PlusNet Community forums or at PlusNet support.

Saying they do is what is pig-headed and precisely why you are getting nowhere.

I tried to give you advice about your attitude and all you've done is apply the same attitude to me.

I have no intention of reading everything that has been posted on this matter in that forum since that Feb 2013 post. Unless you pay me a consultancy fee on a per-hour basis.

That post is sensible. Most of what I've seen here isn't. The implication of that post is that additional FTTC connections at that cabinet and associated cross-talk could be a factor. I assume that has been proven not to be the case.

Quite simply, if you are so convinced the problem lies with PlusNet, why don't you just move to another ISP? Any sane person would. It's almost as though fighting and (not) winning a battle is what you want. Rather than having a service that works.

Move, and if it works you have every right to rant for the rest of your natural life. Getting everyone ridiculing you isn't going to help solve the problem. It can only shorten that natural life.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-Jan-14 19:55:11
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Is this your problem?
In reply to a post by blimsta:
Lag to servers in EU
If so, what have you done to prove it's not your end?


______________________________________________________________________________________Go_girl!__________________

Edited by BatBoy (Mon 20-Jan-14 19:55:39)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 20-Jan-14 20:31:41
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Have you checked no-one is leaching onto your connection at bad times? Have you ever changed your wireless password? Are you connecting wired to the router?

Does anyone else in your household use the internet at the same time as you are gaming or downloading? Or do you ever have some other internet activity going at the same time as gaming?

Are you aware that if anything else is running over your connection whilst gaming, then the gaming priority is lost because you have the Pro option?

I repeat my earlier question, have you (officially) told PN the games and servers involved? Very occasionally a game doesn't get listed in their system as being one.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 20-Jan-14 20:36:40
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
He's been pointing to the same old thread on the Plusnet forum, but that doesn't say what the problem is, other than it seems he has had a problem with disconnections for over a year that has only just been cured by Openreach fitting a new drop wire. I don't know if DLM has had sufficient time yet to recover from the fault?


______________________________________________________________________________________Go_girl!__________________
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Tue 21-Jan-14 10:05:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Everyone here is trying to help to the best they can with the information available. Even down to advising that maybe Plusnet is not the best ISP for you.

Are you able to list the games you are having an issue with. Do those games all have central servers or is one of the group you are playing with hosting the server?

If someone else is hosting the server it may be their own upstream connection causing issues. Also, the fact you are on the same exchange is irrelevant as all of the traffic will flow to the ISPs own network and then drop out at a central pipe somewhere and then from there will traverse to the central pipe of the other ISP to then travel back through their network to the exchange. There will be no direct connections within exchanges between ISPs (at least that I know of).

And if dropping out to a 3G network then the route could be even more painful.

If these are big popular games then Plusnet may be able to do something. But, if this is a peering link issue with a game that is in low use then it would potentially not be worth Plusnet's resources to change their network to support the game (as has been said, you don't pay enough to them for that level of service and it is unreasonable to expect it for the peanuts that UK people generally pay for their Internet connections).

If you want that level of service then you may do better with someone like AAISP who put more resource into this sort of thing, but they also charge more in most cases.
Standard User KelvinBridge
(learned) Tue 21-Jan-14 17:39:04
Print Post

Re: Plusnet untrustworthy


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Is this the kind of stupidity that got you banned from the PlusNet forums?

You have used a lot of sarcasm in your posts.

You clearly haven't a clue what you are on about and it is you talking "bs" as you put it. It's amazing that you have had so many very knowledgeable people as you have trying to explain things to you.

I think it quite possible that one of two things is the problem you have.

Either somewhere on your line or in your home something is screwing up your gaming. It could even be a plasma TV against the adjoining wall of your neighbour. Or an indoor gym machine. Or a faulty Sky box. Or a host of similar things.

You probably don't even realise what you have posted, which amounts to saying ISPs should provide you with a dedicated connection direct to your game host server and/or direct to your friend's router. (Quite how that would fit in with his router being connected to his own ISP is of course only a tiny and easily solved little complication. Quite apart from which there is a fair chance it would make no difference).

What is absolutely obvious is that any chance of getting your gaming issues resolved, if indeed they are resolvable, went out of the window ages ago. Unless you stop being so pig-headed and listen.

For instance, in the last few posts you've thrown in some specific games, though I don't think you have mentioned any particular game servers. Have you ever listed to PlusNet the ones you use, including any that work fine as well as the ones that don't? (Saying which is which, in case that wouldn't occur to you frown).

If you've never been asked, which would be unusual, it won't be from any deliberate omission by PlusNet. It will be because you post such reams of incomprehensible garbage and spite that people can't see the wood for the trees.

Get a grip, and you might get somewhere. Throw clever-dickedness and sarcasm around and you bring about your own doom.

*******************************************************************************************

I'm looking forward to the Book coming out, and then the Film , but who would play the central charactor........ John Malkovich or Anthony Hopkins or even Gary Oldman ???

.....it's a bit like 'Forbidden Planet' meets 'One lives in the cuckoos nest '' or was it flew over ?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 21-Jan-14 19:45:28
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Re: Plusnet untrustworthy *DELETED*


[re: KelvinBridge] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by RobertoS
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 21-Jan-14 20:31:12
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
Canopies.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User alext05
(member) Wed 22-Jan-14 07:26:50
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Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The thread is a waste of time for anyone trying to help. I am surprised it's still going on.
Standard User Malwaremike
(committed) Wed 22-Jan-14 10:53:58
Print Post

Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: alext05] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alext05:
The thread is a waste of time for anyone trying to help. I am surprised it's still going on.

I agree. Its only virtue is to display the tolerance and patience of its moderators and the people who give so much of their time and knowledge to help others.
Standard User blimsta
(learned) Wed 22-Jan-14 14:28:10
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Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: Malwaremike] [link to this post]
 
Umm what? 2-3 years of internet problem and a man isnt aloowed to be a bit upset while still paying full price.


Not only have I had no help but people are arguing with me when I'm the only one trying to work out the problem.



To any gamers out there, you can see the BS, you shouldn't have to understand how the internet works to play your games online. You don't need to know people are being payed off to stick up for PN because all you need to know is PN it [censored] for new age games.


Money grabbing maggots! The UK really isn't the place to be anymore. Rather live in the US, at least they take pride in having fun.


PS. I'm a guy who enjoys understanding things, I'm one of those sad people who enjoys things most people would get bored of very quickly. THIS hasn't been fun, no if anything it's been a bunch of misleading pack of lies. Its actually very depressing seeing people act like this.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 22-Jan-14 14:37:27
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Re: Plusnet trustworthy


[re: blimsta] [link to this post]
 
After that outburst I am closing this thread

If you want to seek help on the issue you need to keep things polite and avoid accusations.

i.e.

What game is having the issue.
Which servers you are playing on.

At the very least then if others are having similar issues it will help them to find your post and possibly share what they have tried, rather than the random help that has been offered, but all too often rebuffed.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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