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Standard User Bastien
(newbie) Sat 16-Jan-16 19:11:49
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: Bastien] [link to this post]
 
Sent a follow up email this morning, offering to pay the monthly fees.

No reply at all today.

Still without internet. Day 2.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 16-Jan-16 19:39:20
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: Bastien] [link to this post]
 
I think you could also offer to pay off the disputed charges over a few months. Then hope to negotiate a reduction or refund during that period. At least you would have a service.

Have you paid anything to them since the house move? If not, when you tried to migrate away it could be said you didn't really have a service to migrate. Yes there was a service, but the contract could be deemed null and void as you had paid nothing - not even the first month's normal charge.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jan-16 20:57:57
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: gt94sss2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gt94sss2:
In reply to a post by bernado:
In reply to a post by uno:
No, this is not a valid reason to block an outward migration and is against the Ofcom code for transfers.
Matt


Just out of interest is Ofcom's transfers code a kind of gentlemen's agreement of expected levels of service or is it something more binding?


See http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/g...

A1.2 covers the circumstances losing providers can cancel migrations
“The Losing Communications Provider shall only be permitted to use Cancel Other in the following circumstances:
i) where Slamming has occurred;
ii) at the Customer‟s request, where the Gaining Communications Provider has failed to cancel the request after being directed by the Customer to do so (“Failure to Cancel”);
iii) where the telephone line is, or will be, ceased during the Transfer Period (“Line Cease”);
iv) for other specified reasons not related to a Customer‟s request to cancel a transfer, and agreed by the relevant industry forum and approved by Ofcom; and
v) in such circumstances as defined by Ofcom.”
1.7 GC24.15 requires that:
“Before using Cancel Other in cases of Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel, the Losing Communications Provider shall take reasonable steps to establish that Slamming and/or Failure to Cancel has actually taken place.”
1.8 GC24.18 requires that:
“Where the Losing Communications Provider communicates with the Customer in order to comply with this General Condition, it must not make any marketing statements or representations in the communication which may induce the Customer to terminate their contract with the Gaining Communications Provider and/or remain in a contract with the Losing Communications Provider.”
1.9 Sections 94 to 96 of the Act provide for the enforcement of conditions and give Ofcom powers to take action, including the imposition of penalties, against persons who contravene, or have contravened, a condition set under section 45 of the Act.
and further reading could well mean it is as Matt said , Vivaciti has broken the ofcom rules there is nothing in that that suggests that owing the loosing provider money or failing to honour the min term is regarded as justification by ofcom for Cancel other

I would think the reasonable thing to do in this case ,Would be to reach some agreement that suits both parties, that might be a payment plan, or the waiving of some of the associated fees (due to the fact there is a new 12mth min term involved) the latter is assuming the OP still wishes to take service from Vivaciti,
But should they still wish to migrate to another provider,the OP should be able to do this without their attempts being blocked, that imo gives more reason not to pay the loosing provider,
Of course the op if they so wished could always get a new line installed and take service with another provider some will do this line install free or at a reasonable fee , and then just abandon the existing line all together nothing stopping them doing that


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 16-Jan-16 21:44:31
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
A lot of very bad advice there, tommy.

The debt remains. The best the OP can do is negotiate it to a lower figure. To zero is unlikely.

Just abandoning the existing line leaves the debt outstanding plus ongoing charges plus ultimately another cease fee. The OP would be unable to claim ignorance in a court after what has already happened.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jan-16 22:33:01
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes i know the debt remains, i never said that it did not, And what is bad about me advising the OP and Vivaciti to come to some arrangement that suits both of them, that would be my first coarse of action, then arbitration , but if i did no longer want service from vivaciti and they wrongly cancelled further attempts to migrate services to another provider, then i wouldn't hesitate in getting another line , and would totally abandon the existing one,
I would still pay monies owed following arbitration if reaching a compromise with vivaciti wasn't possible No one should have to wait to migrate because of a debt that is owing in the first place
But there again i wouldn't get myself into such a situation the op is in, Had i been in the op's shoes i probably would of just ceased the bb at the old address and moved the voice to the new address , then sorted things from that point ,because i wouldn't be paying £50 activation fees on a 12mth min term £25-30 inc Vat at a push maybe this is ADSL after all

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 16-Jan-16 22:38:51)

Standard User Bastien
(newbie) Sat 16-Jan-16 22:52:05
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It seems there is some misunderstanding, or maybe some information is missed in the long thread.

I will summarize the whole thing in chronological order, so you can see what I am arguing.

But before that let's establish some facts: the only place that mentions about "moving" is the FAQ on their website which has a paragraph explaining the technical process with no mention of any fees. "Moving" is not mentioned in their current T&C.

So now I begin the story.

So I signed up for a monthly contract, since 2013, and this has never changed, I was never told about any change, I never authorised any change, as far as I am concerned I am still in a one month contract. No question there.

So I moved house, I looked at their FAQ which is the only information on moving, they have a paragraph explaining the technical process, but makes no mention of any fee whatsoever. I asked them about fees, I was given a line of "I think 8 pounds", and then nothing afterwards. The exact quote as follows:

"The phone line is physical and attached the building so the current phone line and broadband would need to be terminated, for this you would need to let us know the date you wish the services to be ceased.
If the new premises has an active phone line then we can do a line takeover which costs I think £8 and has a lead time of 10 days, once the line is under our control we can place a broadband order which will take a further 7 days to complete.
If you can give us the new address then we can look up to see if we can do a line takeover and advise you better."

Then I provided the address,

"Hi.
There is a working phone line at that premises so we would be able to perform a working line takeover."

As far as I am concerned, I have been told these lines: "then we can do a line takeover which costs I think £8" and "...then we can look up to see if we can do a line takeover and advise you better" for the cost of the move. There was no further confirmation. So I assumed it to be none, because otherwise they would have told me. They did not mention any fee in any later emails. As far as I have been led to believe, the move does not cost anyone any money.

I am willing to negotiate on the case of the vague mentioning of 8 pounds, but not the 126.07 pounds they are now asking for.

Later I ordered the line to be moved to the new place. I was told it has been done, they even kept the same number and username and password without asking. Great, I thought. At this point as far as I am concerned, the move was free, and I am still with the same plan.

So I moved in, plugged in my modem router, everything works just like before, same speed and everything. As far as I am concerned, the move was successful, life continues, I am still going paying the same amount every month, so all is good.

Until I was hit with the bill with all those charges I did not expect and did not know about.

So now at this point, As far as I am concerned I was not told anywhere at any point about these fees before the bill. I did not know about them.

And also, as far as I am concerned, I am still on a monthly contract. And I am perfectly happy to pay the monthly fees.

But I am not okay with the extra charges I was not told about, it was not mentioned on any website, and in any emails.

So in conclusion, I owe them nothing other than the regular monthly fees, and I am on a monthly contract that I can get out without penalty (although now I know "cease" is a billing item and not a technical procedure).

I made every effort to find out if there was any fee, I looked at their website, even asked about it, and I got nothing. I should not be expected to be able to know about the fees given my efforts and the result I was given. I have fulfilled my work as a customer to find out about the fee, and I have been led by the combined effect of the non-mentioning of fees under the paragraph about "moving" on the website, and in the non-mentioning of fees in the emails, to come to a conclusion that there is no fee. It is not a case of I did not know about something I should have found out, on the contrary, from my effort I have found out that there was none, because I was made to believe there was none.

And to give a latest update, I have already sent an offer to pay the monthly fees yesterday, it was even an unconditional offer. I have yet to get any reply. And my internet is still suspended.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 16-Jan-16 22:57:00
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
But should they still wish to migrate to another provider,the OP should be able to do this without their attempts being blocked, that imo gives more reason not to pay the loosing provider,
Of course the op if they so wished could always get a new line installed and take service with another provider some will do this line install free or at a reasonable fee , and then just abandon the existing line all together nothing stopping them doing that
Loosing by the way is what you do when you slacken off or release some sort of tie.

A provider you leave is a losing provider. If your pocket is picked, you lose your wallet. You don't loose it.

Losing and loosing aren't even pronounced the same.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 16-Jan-16 23:05:32
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: Bastien] [link to this post]
 
I accept you have a good case. I was just trying to suggest the best way of getting a working connection while it gets sorted. However earlier you did say you had seen the FAQs but the two clauses didn't seem to be related. Thin ice there.

So maybe the monthly fee plus that £8 for a starter. But I think for the quickest result it would need to be by bank transfer. Next quickest, a cheque which would need to clear. Slowest, wait for the d/d to be reinstated. That's assuming you cancelled the authority and didn't just block the specific request.

All assuming they accept the suggestion, which I wouldn't rate as highly probable.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Jan-16 23:09:26
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by tommy45:
But should they still wish to migrate to another provider,the OP should be able to do this without their attempts being blocked, that imo gives more reason not to pay the loosing provider,
Of course the op if they so wished could always get a new line installed and take service with another provider some will do this line install free or at a reasonable fee , and then just abandon the existing line all together nothing stopping them doing that
Loosing by the way is what you do when you slacken off or release some sort of tie.

A provider you leave is a losing provider. If your pocket is picked, you lose your wallet. You don't loose it.

Losing and loosing aren't even pronounced the same.
Oops the spelling police are out tonight, and it's loosen or loosening BTW

Yes that is my opinion, if a provider is being obstructive (preventing outward migration) that would just create further animosity and not be a constructive step in getting a resolution with some people,
And of course the other bit was highlighting another option available to the OP should this become a long drawn out process ie a deadlock situation it's what action i would take if i was unable to use the existing line
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 16-Jan-16 23:19:45
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Re: Vivaciti unfairly suspended my internet (story inside)


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
... and it's loosen or loosening BTW
Link tongue wink.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
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