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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:51:45
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Loss of dial tone, you know the noise a phone makes when you pick the phone up and listen that is the dial tone.

On the basis of who controls the number routing, yes TalkTalk seem most likely to be at fault. If dial tone had been lost and then they reappeared on a different number after a gap, I'd suggest an Openreach person broke the line and put it back in the wrong place (but then unlikely to have gone back to a working line on the TalkTalk kit) and also would be amazing for TalkTalk to learn of this and correct the virtual routing in the short time frame mentioned.

Obfuscation is a problem, and finding out precise cause would be difficult and if it was AAISP then I'd say you stand a chance of learning the result but doubt Utility Warehouse will see the value in pursuing this due to the time it take.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:52:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
If you ring a number that has a fault or is temporarily disconnected the number will be recognised by the system and it will try to connect. You will hear the ring tone, as it is generated at your exchange to tell you it is trying to make the connection. In a normal call, you do not hear the ring tone the receiver does - that is generated entirely within their premises and not transmitted back to you.

That is how most line faults are detected. The caller gets in touch some other way, as you did, to find out why the person didn't answer the phone.

You only get the unobtainable tone if it is recognised as a discontinued number.

UW no doubt could find out what happened. But they won't even try. Nothing went wrong. Nothing.
Typo (us > is) corrected.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 19-Aug-16 13:37:41)

Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:55:01
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"all perfectly normal actions to carry out your son's requests." - bandying phrases like that around and consistently failing to explain these 'normal actions' is of no benefit to anyone. I think 'abnormal' is more accurate. All that was needed was ADSL connecting to a working line on 23/8. Why 'fiddle' on 17/8 and not tell anyone?


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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 11:03:28
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
MrS and RobertoS and others have given a number of thoughts as to what this might have been.

However, you seem to think that we have a crystal ball that tells us what a number of 3rd parties might have done. We can only guess and use conjecture as we do not have access to the ISPs in question or their call logs.

There are a lot of things that the people on this board know and can work out but unfortunately clairvoyance is beyond all of us. You have been given a number of thoughts but no-one here can definitely say what happened - only the ISP and their suppliers could do that - confused by the fact that UW buy services from TalkTalk who then buy some of their services from BT.

Somewhere along the line a change was made. It was probably done by TalkTalk as part of the works. TalkTalk systems should have provided details to UW as to what those works were but whether you could get a bargain basement ISP like UW to track this through their suppliers is highly debatable - they don't make enough money to invest that sort of effort in telling you.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Aug-16 11:35:28
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Mistakes are often made. At least your son's was fixed within a day. Our VM/BT mistake took 3 weeks but at least both mistakes were rectified.

Do you want the person responsible, for the mistake, flogged? It was fixed - leave it at that!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:14:43
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
"Do you want the person responsible, for the mistake, flogged?"

Yes, an excellent idea.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:24:32
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"If you ring a number that has a fault or us temporarily disconnected the number will be recognised by the system and it will try to connect. You will hear the ring tone, as it is generated at your exchange to tell you it is trying to make the connection. In a normal call, you do not hear the ring tone the receiver does - that is generated entirely within their premises and not transmitted back to you."

Could you re-read that please. It makes little sense. You appear to suggest there are 2 separate 'ring tones'. I am aware of a 'ring tone' for the dialler and a 'ringing signal' at the receiver. I always normally hear a ring tone when I dial a (working) number. On this occasion I did too, but the number was NOT working.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:24:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
What if the mistake was made by your son?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 14:02:08
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
There are two separate ring tones.

No ring tone is sent to the called phone. In olden days it needed to be generated inside the master socket when an incoming call was received, and sent to the physical phone down the ring/bell wire. All Openreach current master sockets still generate it.

Most modern phones and dangly filters generate it themselves if it doesn't come down a ring wire, which is why we always recommend disconnecting the ring/bell wire at the master socket on xDSL installations. It acts as an aerial and feeds electromagnetic noise back onto the line, messing up the xDSL.

As I said, when you call a faulty line you will normally still get your ring tone. But if the call does not reach the master or phone because of the fault then there will be no ring tone at the far end. It is the call voltage that triggers the ring tone at the receiving end - the ring tone does not exist as part of the call.

The fault in this case was that a different number had been put on the line, which is where the thread started from. Of course your son could call out, and of course you calling the expected number didn't work. But the number you called was still associated with the physical line in the database so was recognised by the system when you called it and got the ring tone.

As soon as that number was re-ported onto the physical connection all worked fine.

Something went wrong. We know that, you know that. You posted:-
In reply to a post by mikejp:
Thank you for that, but the question was "what has happened here"- why was the number changed with no notice?

He tells me that as of 11:30 he is 'back' on the correct number
You have had many explanations. All basically along the same lines but with minor variations.

It's life. It happens. It might have been a routine step, or it might have been a clanger dropped by someone. Are you perfect and never made a mistake that affected someone else?

Talk of breach of contract is simply laughable, and wild derogatory remarks about Openreach engineers in general completely out of order. Criticising Openreach itself if appropriate is another matter, or a specific engineer who you know was responsible for poor work (and not simply doing as ordered by management) would be another matter.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:19:46
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
As per other posts, yes, it is my for my son to ask of UW, not me. I have asked him to do so since this represents a breach of contract. If we get an answer I will re-post.


If you feel its a breech of contract, which will lie with UW. Then your son needs to complain to them. He does not need to know who was actually at fault. That is for UW to sort out after he has got his Compensation....
Is this what this is about getting some £££ or are you looking for a way out of the contract?

Has he actually tried to ring the number that replaced his actual number for that short period, since he got his old number back?
Might find that the owner of that one had the same issue....

I think Mr S has provided a more than accurate answer to the problem.
Unless you are to find who did it and they can explain, you are going to get nothing than "best guess"

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
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