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Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 08:41:23
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Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[link to this post]
 
No 2 son gave UW 2 weeks notice asking for his number (and b/band) to move 8 doors down the road. Move not completed until 3 weeks after notice (UW blamed on BT).

Then told he needs to wait another 2 weeks for the b/band connection. (UW blamed on BT)

I only mention UW since the forum requires me to - I suspect they are pretty 'blameless' in these delays.

However, with a forecast b/band installation date of 23/8, a call between us was 'broken' yesterday morning. I then rang his number back several times, getting ringing tone but no answer. He said no phone ringing at his end, but he was able to dial out. 'Satisfactory' resolution yesterday afternoon with divert to his mobile.

However, I am hoping someone can cast some light on what has happened here? It transpires he has a 'new' number - same exchange code but well off the normal number range for the area - they begin with 81, this is 66 - and no-one told him. If I ring that, he answers!

I am assuming that some dull Openreach wallah pulled the wrong lead off? Is this 'new' temp number one that exists in a big box reserved for OR cock-ups?

Edited by mikejp (Thu 18-Aug-16 08:43:03)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-16 11:29:51
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Utlity Warehouse use LLU (mainly TalkTalk) so phone numbers are all down to the LLU operator and not Openreach.

Delays may be Openreach based, but a lot depends on what orders where placed, i.e. if down as two orders by UW or their wholesaler than what you describe timewise is normal. If done as a single order than broadband + phone should be on the same day.

LLU phone number ranges may not line up with historical allocations in an area.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 11:49:39
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for that, but the question was "what has happened here"- why was the number changed with no notice?

He tells me that as of 11:30 he is 'back' on the correct number


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 18-Aug-16 11:54:41
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Possibly because the original line failed, or was replaced for some other reason, as shown by you not being able to ring in on the correct number, and the correct number then had to be ported again onto that line.

You and he picked up on it in the interval between line replacement and number re-porting.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 18-Aug-16 11:57:14)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 18-Aug-16 11:54:59
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
No one here could answer that question with confidence as it could be a number of things and therefore the only people who could answer are the suppliers.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 12:13:11
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The failure to communicate the number change is unforgiveable. Why this was not sorted out whenever whatever happened I cannot understand. There should have been an instant 'divert' from old to new and not wait 6 hours until the customer
complains. It appears that incompetence is a standard qualification in British telephony.

In an LLU sitation, who does tne work on a line - OR or TalkTalk?
Standard User panda
(committed) Thu 18-Aug-16 12:30:01
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
My guess is that the line was initially provided with a number from TT's block, then subsequently a Port order was completed to replace it with the correct number.

OR don't manage telephone numbers. They are allocated and managed by the underlying telephony Wholesaler.

Eats shoots and leaves.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 18-Aug-16 18:26:32
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
I am assuming that some dull Openreach wallah pulled the wrong lead off?

Nice attitude.

Openreach can and do many combined installs every day, they fit what the service provider has requested. The delay between the line install and the broadband going live was entirely at U/W's request. The renumber, also at their request.

Dull but at least informed.

Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 19:42:52
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
So - you work for Openreach, I take it.

Sadly Dull it is, informed it isn't. NO request from UW for:-

a) Disconnection
b) A different number to be connected
and
c) You really should read these threads before pontificating. Broadband to be 'live' on 23/8 - in black and white, post 1.

No wonder the wrong bits get pulled! Reminds me of t'other son's telephone problems a few years back, in the Borders. 17 visits to house by ?dull and uninformed?, each confirming the problem was at the exchange. Lo and behold, No 18 went to the exchange and fixed it. Several 'dull wallahs' in that history, wouldn't you say?.

I cannot believe OR would survive in the real world without the BT cushion.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-16 20:37:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps the answer is to not use Openreach at all

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 18-Aug-16 20:45:04
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Problem is the end-user can't communicate with Openreach so can only make uninformed guesses.
Standard User partial
(experienced) Thu 18-Aug-16 21:21:16
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Openreach have no number ranges allocated to them. They have no input into numbering. Numbering is wholly down to the provider.

An LLU number won't appear on BT or Openreach records whatsoever. They use a 'service ID code' which is four letters and seven numbers to identify the circuit.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 21:22:02
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Now you are talking sense Mr S! With your vastly greater knowledge of this industry, tell me how? You will have the support of a significant number of MPs too. Can I just get someone else to wander into the exchange and pull a few leads?

On the topic of 'dull wallahs', I did tell the story some time back on TBB of a friend's house/phone/broadband move with BT/OR. Disconnected on the right day (Friday) at old house, not reconnected at new. Meantime the DW team had gone to a house in the same village, with the same name (different road and postcode) and were firmly told by the startled occupants that they did NOT want a new line. So, back to the van for more coffee and sandwiches. Then 'order must be wrong, so we will cancel it.' Yes, a bright move.

Having been via Customer Service and elevated to senior manager level to be told it will take a week or so to sort out, that one went whistling like a hot slippery **** straight into the in-tray of the (new) BT CEO (on a Saturday). Fortunately a very capable senior trouble-shooting lady picked it up and sorted it out - with apologies for the DWs

Forgot to mention Zarjaz that indeed the 'Service Provider' had, as you said, requested a delay since the order for broadband apparently could not be placed until a working line was in situ and it would take about 7 days. Did I mention who the SP was............? Again Mrs Marvel stood on that one too and it went in the following Monday.

I seriously doubt any of the OR folk I have come across would survive outside.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-16 21:48:29
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
If Openreach is so bad, then any other provider that can get minimal investment should be able to get off the ground and show that millions will leave for better customer service, just like how Virgin Media is attracting millions away from BT in the areas it offers service.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 22:04:55
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
er- what about the closed shop? Not sure which pills you are on, Mr S, but BT allowing access to all its ducts, pipes, poles, exchanges, data - to another?

I'll have a bottle please...........
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-16 22:08:25
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Virgin Media gets by with no access to Openreach ducting.

Access to exchanges - oddly popular since 2004 and PIA has existed perhaps not ready for massive scale use but some providers are making use of it e.g. WarwickNet

I'm talking about ignoring Openreach and doing something new and cutting edge. With Openreach being as useless as they are, any competitor is guaranteed high levels of take-up and early ROI for the billions needed to create a point to point dark fibre network to wipe the floor with copper.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 18-Aug-16 22:09:34
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
No 2 son gave UW 2 weeks notice asking for his number (and b/band) to move 8 doors down the road. Move not completed until 3 weeks after notice (UW blamed on BT).

Then told he needs to wait another 2 weeks for the b/band connection. (UW blamed on BT)


I only mention UW since the forum requires me to - I suspect they are pretty 'blameless' in these delays.


Funny how UW blame the other party....
If you search out moving number with BT, they require "ideally two weeks or more" to action this. Makes no difference if it's 8 doors or 80 miles...
UW pass the order on and will know the date that is given. If they can't inform the account holder, then the fault is theirs.
Yes there could be delays due to unforeseen problems. But again UW should be updating the account holder.
Far too easy to blame everyone else but your own company.... Especially as it is someone that can not argue their point.

A company I have complaints about taking funds they should not on regular basis... Of curse never their fault is it....

Still look on the up side. You son can claim compensation from UW As he i their customer and it's their responsibility....
If they want to claim from someone else, that is upto them wink

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User mikejp
(member) Thu 18-Aug-16 22:23:21
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
"Funny how UW blame the other party....
If you search out moving number with BT, they require "ideally two weeks or more" to action this. Makes no difference if it's 8 doors or 80 miles...
UW pass the order on and will know the date that is given. If they can't inform the account holder, then the fault is theirs.
Yes there could be delays due to unforeseen problems. But again UW should be updating the account holder.
Far too easy to blame everyone else but your own company.... Especially as it is someone that can not argue their point."

I think you have misunderstood the thread. UW could 'blame' Bt for a 2 week delay on b/band. Son was fully informed throughout on dates and UW could not understand why 2 weeks when the line connection date was known. Regarding move distance, it will be easier to move in the same exchange rather than 80 miles. Less chance for the 'engineer' to go to the wrong place?

The main point of the thread was about the un-announced subsequent disconnection and number change. I struggle to see how UW could have 'requested' that.

Mr S - yes, a good idea - was that a pig I saw flying past my window.......?,
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 18-Aug-16 22:36:37
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
The main point of the thread was about the un-announced subsequent disconnection and number change. I struggle to see how UW could have 'requested' that.
As you have been made aware, "Numbering is wholly down to the provider."
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 18-Aug-16 23:02:02
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
The main point of the thread was about the un-announced subsequent disconnection and number change. I struggle to see how UW could have 'requested' that.

Mr S - yes, a good idea - was that a pig I saw flying past my window.......?,
Only you (not even Zarjaz) suggested that. The most like explanation is
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Possibly because the original line failed, or was replaced for some other reason, as shown by you not being able to ring in on the correct number, and the correct number then had to be ported again onto that line.

You and he picked up on it in the interval between line replacement and number re-porting.
That other reason, if that's what it was rather than a line fault, would be UW or (very possibly) their supplier TalkTalk Business Wholesale deciding it was necessary.

Quite simple really. What are your hysterics about? It wasn't even your line! And it lasted a few hours. The restoration of the correct number would have happened, whether or not a complaint was made. It was an operational necessity, detail only known by the suppliers, to do this.

Stop stirring your teacup and you will find the contents settle down within seconds. Along with your blood pressure.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 08:44:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
We have confirmed UW knew nothing of the changes until advised by us. Unfortunately, based on what I have seen of OR/BT (as was) and its inablilty to do things right over the years leads me to the firm conclusion of DW action.

However, as you correctly point out, it is now 'over', but any faith in a basic 'essential service' remains little.

The fact remains - a rubbish service in the industry. My son 'discovered' the new number when we worked out his phone was not ringing and he dialled out to his mobile and saw the number. He had been working alongside his phone all day, No-one called to 'check' the 'new' line or tell him. If you cannot see cock-up there, well, I wonder...............
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 08:55:31
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
With Utility Warehouse if in a LLU area (most likely) then it will be dependent on what that LLU operator who runs the voice hardware and DSL hardware does - thought to be TalkTalk Wholesale

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 09:08:58
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I do understand it is a TT LLU exchange. A while back I asked (unanswered) who would actually do any line work - TT or OR, and would that apply at both exchange and cabinet?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 09:54:22
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
We have confirmed UW knew nothing of the changes until advised by us.


So they say.. Have they provided information on who did it?

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:02:51
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JohnR:
In reply to a post by mikejp:
We have confirmed UW knew nothing of the changes until advised by us.
So they say.. Have they provided information on who did it?
More importantly, he seems to believe UW support have any idea what orders TalkTalk will have/did place in Openreach? They are just mass resellers of various utility products and almost certainly ignorant of what their supplier does to fulfil their order.

UW places an order on TT for a house move. That's basically all they know except for feedback such as dates, or an impossibility of fulfilment.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:19:13
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Physical work on the line is Openreach domain, but things like phone numbering and call connection is on the TalkTalk kit. If Openreach has been fiddling most likely result would have been lose of dial tone totally for a long period.

So to drop to a different number usually means they've done a remote reconfig of a port the phone line is connected to. Remember telephone numbers are virtual rather than tied to the physical copper these days.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:22:26
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Roberto/JR I fear you may well still be confused. The 'changes' referred to are the disconnection and 'secret' re-connection of a line - nothing to do with install dates etc.

I posted here in the hope at least one of the resident 'experts' might be able to cast light on what might have happened and why, but sadly it does not seem possible.

As per other posts, yes, it is my for my son to ask of UW, not me. I have asked him to do so since this represents a breach of contract. If we get an answer I will re-post.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:39:04
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Easy most likely scenario, TalkTalk while with porting and setting up the line dropped the preferred number from the config for a while, or made some other mistake that was rectified.

If this was an Openreach based mistake, generally expect to have no dial tone for some time, 30 minutes plus, most issues with Openreach would occur if in the wiring loom they were jumpering another line and knocked loose a wire, hence the lose of dial tone.

Of course no-one will know for sure without full access to system change logs at TalkTalk and CCTV of all the wiring involved in the exchange.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:43:43
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Not much clearer, Mr S. What is 'loss of dial tone'? He never lost 'dial tone' because he was transferred to a different number which had dial tone! His 'proper' number just did not ring at his house, but rang for the inbound caller. On this basis you are suggesting it would have been TT, I take it? Where would it be ringing?

So, back to the question of 'culpability'. Whoever it was that made the change (on a line which had been working fine for a week) should have done what in respect of the customer/provider?

Quite honestly I doubt UW will have much success finding out what happened judging by the obfuscation I see.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:43:58
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps you didn't read, or chose to ignore, this post. You have certainly never commented on it or its contents.

Note that MrSaffron has just given a technical reason that fits perfectly into that. No breach of contract, no order by UW involved, all perfectly normal actions to carry out your son's requests.

What is the problem? As for breach of contract, I suggest any money you or your son spent on pursuing that course would simply increase the income tax paid by members of the legal profession. As well as making the financial situation of you or he considerably worse.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:51:45
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Loss of dial tone, you know the noise a phone makes when you pick the phone up and listen that is the dial tone.

On the basis of who controls the number routing, yes TalkTalk seem most likely to be at fault. If dial tone had been lost and then they reappeared on a different number after a gap, I'd suggest an Openreach person broke the line and put it back in the wrong place (but then unlikely to have gone back to a working line on the TalkTalk kit) and also would be amazing for TalkTalk to learn of this and correct the virtual routing in the short time frame mentioned.

Obfuscation is a problem, and finding out precise cause would be difficult and if it was AAISP then I'd say you stand a chance of learning the result but doubt Utility Warehouse will see the value in pursuing this due to the time it take.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:52:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
If you ring a number that has a fault or is temporarily disconnected the number will be recognised by the system and it will try to connect. You will hear the ring tone, as it is generated at your exchange to tell you it is trying to make the connection. In a normal call, you do not hear the ring tone the receiver does - that is generated entirely within their premises and not transmitted back to you.

That is how most line faults are detected. The caller gets in touch some other way, as you did, to find out why the person didn't answer the phone.

You only get the unobtainable tone if it is recognised as a discontinued number.

UW no doubt could find out what happened. But they won't even try. Nothing went wrong. Nothing.
Typo (us > is) corrected.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 19-Aug-16 13:37:41)

Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 10:55:01
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"all perfectly normal actions to carry out your son's requests." - bandying phrases like that around and consistently failing to explain these 'normal actions' is of no benefit to anyone. I think 'abnormal' is more accurate. All that was needed was ADSL connecting to a working line on 23/8. Why 'fiddle' on 17/8 and not tell anyone?
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 11:03:28
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
MrS and RobertoS and others have given a number of thoughts as to what this might have been.

However, you seem to think that we have a crystal ball that tells us what a number of 3rd parties might have done. We can only guess and use conjecture as we do not have access to the ISPs in question or their call logs.

There are a lot of things that the people on this board know and can work out but unfortunately clairvoyance is beyond all of us. You have been given a number of thoughts but no-one here can definitely say what happened - only the ISP and their suppliers could do that - confused by the fact that UW buy services from TalkTalk who then buy some of their services from BT.

Somewhere along the line a change was made. It was probably done by TalkTalk as part of the works. TalkTalk systems should have provided details to UW as to what those works were but whether you could get a bargain basement ISP like UW to track this through their suppliers is highly debatable - they don't make enough money to invest that sort of effort in telling you.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 19-Aug-16 11:35:28
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
Mistakes are often made. At least your son's was fixed within a day. Our VM/BT mistake took 3 weeks but at least both mistakes were rectified.

Do you want the person responsible, for the mistake, flogged? It was fixed - leave it at that!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:14:43
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
"Do you want the person responsible, for the mistake, flogged?"

Yes, an excellent idea.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:24:32
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"If you ring a number that has a fault or us temporarily disconnected the number will be recognised by the system and it will try to connect. You will hear the ring tone, as it is generated at your exchange to tell you it is trying to make the connection. In a normal call, you do not hear the ring tone the receiver does - that is generated entirely within their premises and not transmitted back to you."

Could you re-read that please. It makes little sense. You appear to suggest there are 2 separate 'ring tones'. I am aware of a 'ring tone' for the dialler and a 'ringing signal' at the receiver. I always normally hear a ring tone when I dial a (working) number. On this occasion I did too, but the number was NOT working.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 19-Aug-16 13:24:53
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
What if the mistake was made by your son?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 14:02:08
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
There are two separate ring tones.

No ring tone is sent to the called phone. In olden days it needed to be generated inside the master socket when an incoming call was received, and sent to the physical phone down the ring/bell wire. All Openreach current master sockets still generate it.

Most modern phones and dangly filters generate it themselves if it doesn't come down a ring wire, which is why we always recommend disconnecting the ring/bell wire at the master socket on xDSL installations. It acts as an aerial and feeds electromagnetic noise back onto the line, messing up the xDSL.

As I said, when you call a faulty line you will normally still get your ring tone. But if the call does not reach the master or phone because of the fault then there will be no ring tone at the far end. It is the call voltage that triggers the ring tone at the receiving end - the ring tone does not exist as part of the call.

The fault in this case was that a different number had been put on the line, which is where the thread started from. Of course your son could call out, and of course you calling the expected number didn't work. But the number you called was still associated with the physical line in the database so was recognised by the system when you called it and got the ring tone.

As soon as that number was re-ported onto the physical connection all worked fine.

Something went wrong. We know that, you know that. You posted:-
In reply to a post by mikejp:
Thank you for that, but the question was "what has happened here"- why was the number changed with no notice?

He tells me that as of 11:30 he is 'back' on the correct number
You have had many explanations. All basically along the same lines but with minor variations.

It's life. It happens. It might have been a routine step, or it might have been a clanger dropped by someone. Are you perfect and never made a mistake that affected someone else?

Talk of breach of contract is simply laughable, and wild derogatory remarks about Openreach engineers in general completely out of order. Criticising Openreach itself if appropriate is another matter, or a specific engineer who you know was responsible for poor work (and not simply doing as ordered by management) would be another matter.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:19:46
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
As per other posts, yes, it is my for my son to ask of UW, not me. I have asked him to do so since this represents a breach of contract. If we get an answer I will re-post.


If you feel its a breech of contract, which will lie with UW. Then your son needs to complain to them. He does not need to know who was actually at fault. That is for UW to sort out after he has got his Compensation....
Is this what this is about getting some £££ or are you looking for a way out of the contract?

Has he actually tried to ring the number that replaced his actual number for that short period, since he got his old number back?
Might find that the owner of that one had the same issue....

I think Mr S has provided a more than accurate answer to the problem.
Unless you are to find who did it and they can explain, you are going to get nothing than "best guess"

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:26:13
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Should highlight if support gets wind that someone may go 'legal' then often the result is for them to clam up and then await the legal paperwork, i.e. to avoid saying anything that has not been through their legal dept. Or put another the classic angry phone call reaction of 'I am going to sue' can have the reverse effect at times in terms of getting an issue fixed, since everyone will do everything by the book at that point.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:31:51
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
"Is this what this is about getting some £££ or are you looking for a way out of the contract?" - neither - I can-me here hoping for some knowledgeable assistance.

"Has he actually tried to ring the number that replaced his actual number for that short period, since he got his old number back?
Might find that the owner of that one had the same issue...." - no, I have. It is unobtainable.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:41:09
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"wild derogatory remarks about Openreach engineers in general completely out of order." - the two instances I have quoted are in no way 'wild' but are, of course, derogatory within the meaning of the word. They simply show total, undeniable incompetence where the employees would have been disciplined in a normal company.

Thank you for clarifying your previous bit about ring tones.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:48:38
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I agree.
But a lot depends on the quality of the staff at UW.

Working in customer services I have wide ranging powers to solve problems. Ie If I give you X will it solve your issue....
It's amazing how many people are simply looking for a few £££ rather than actually solving the problem. Can spot these a mile off as when saying well I'll pass it on to the complaints team, they start to back track, knowing that they won't get the reply they want.

OP's son simply needs to raise a complaint. That maybe enough to get a few £££ chucked their way, rather than UW having to spend time and effort actually finding out what the issue was. But as has been said, with so many fingers in the pie. Getting to the truth will be hard.

I get your "By the book" comment, but that will require a lot of effort by UW to get to the root cause given the number of possible causes by multiple parties.
End of the day it's going to come down to cost to find the issue compared to cash to customer.

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Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Fri 19-Aug-16 15:55:37
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
It is yourself that appears to be in denial. You blame Openreach without having the slightest idea of where the problem lay. Your failure to understand or accept is the problem here.
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:22:17
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
You don't work for them as well, do you?

Please do not invent words from me - you really shouldn't..

I have said to date:
"I am assuming that some dull Openreach wallah pulled the wrong lead off?"

Not an unreasonable assumption based on their performance

I also said:
"Unfortunately, based on what I have seen of OR/BT (as was) and its inablilty to do things right over the years leads me to the firm conclusion of DW action."

Again, not unreasonable based on history. They are not very good.

"You blame Openreach without having the slightest idea of where the problem lay." is thus not true, is it? I had hoped that with the information I have given someone could have identified the cause and who to blame, but not so. Your failure to understand is the problem here.

UW have now said they think it was OR. It would not surprise me. You can quote me on that.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:26:57
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
UW have now said they think it was OR.
How would they know?
Standard User mikejp
(member) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:32:31
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I am at the point where I no longer care. The sooner they get shoved onto the redundancy pile and Mr Safron's new company takes over the better. 2 definite major cock-ups and one 'probable' in my world alone. Enough for most folk, I would think.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:37:34
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
As you've been made aware, Openreach don't control line numbering. How can they have influenced the number change?
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:38:11
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikejp:
UW have now said they think it was OR. It would not surprise me. You can quote me on that.


Only think.... You mean they don't know...... But is standard form, lets blame someone else..

Shall we wait for the fully investigated reply.

As you seem to have a major downer on OR, yet many of us have never had a issue with their staff and fault fixing.

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:49:22
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
But blaming Openreach fits the narrative that they are an incompetent company as highlighted by the CEO of various large companies that buy their services, so everything must be the fault of Openreach.

Hence why if you go to someone who is not Openreach it will be perfect.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 16:52:24
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: mikejp] [link to this post]
 
You've at least twice used the abbreviation DW, as in the post I'm replying to. In previous posts I've tried to ignore it as not relevant to the discussion, but what is it please? Just in case you use it again.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 19-Aug-16 17:07:29
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Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It just seems perverse to raise a complaint over something that is fixed. I could understand if it was still broken, but it isn't.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Aug-16 21:38:13
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It just seems perverse to raise a complaint over something that is fixed. I could understand if it was still broken, but it isn't.


That is the nature of the beast now. Complain about anything and everything. Even if it was a non event.

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Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 19-Aug-16 21:55:09
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps so many people these days have things so easy compared to people their age 20-30 years ago they don't understand the world doesn't resolve around them.

Things go wrong. Mistakes are made. They affect you. That's life! Tomorrow, or yesterday, today's complainer will make/made a mistake affecting somebody else. He has stated that if he does, he should be flogged.

That might wake him up to reality.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57825/13835kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Sat 20-Aug-16 14:04:44
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
Complain about anything and everything
In this thread you have come across as being not only clueless but stupid as well. Ah well, it takes all sorts.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 21-Aug-16 09:23:44
Print Post

Re: Landline move (Utility Warehouse/BT)


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
Complain about anything and everything
In this thread you have come across as being not only clueless but stupid as well. Ah well, it takes all sorts.


Reduced to personal insults now are we.....
Typical of some here...

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 21-Aug-16 09:59:13
Print Post

Putting thread to bed


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
After going around the loop a few times, think its time to draw a line under the thread.

Scenarios have been presented, and the descent into the depths of online discussion need halting at some point.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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