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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:43:09
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet followed the industry mandated procedure as set out by Ofcom. When I moved house I placed an order on BT despite the fact I wasn't moving in for another week so that the process could start. The current owner would have received a letter and if I had made a mistake or I had been malicious then they would have contacted their ISP to tell them not to allow the transfer.

PlusNet were not fraudulent. PlusNet acted on an order as per the process laid down by Ofcom. PlusNet could not know if the person who requested it had a "right" to do so and are not required to find out. PlusNet did nothing fraudulent - the requestor may have done something fraudulent and may not as it could have been an honest mistake.

A definition of fraud
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
Fraud appears to require intent. It cannot be fraud if there was no intent to commit fraud. There is also no point in PlusNet committing the fraud as the owner is not paying the bill - the new requestor is paying the bill and they aren't gaining as they would be paying for a service they are not receiving - where is the gain for pay £x per month for something you don't get? PlusNet only gain if they manage to slam the connection and that the owner of the connection is paying the bill - they have nothing to gain in this circumstance.

EDIT : I would recommend reading section 2 here. For fraud you have to have intent and you have to know that the information you are providing is false - I would find it amazing if a court would find that PlusNet were guilty of this under this case

Edited by ian72 (Thu 13-Feb-20 16:47:26)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:54:51
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.
Just to clarify something I frequently explain to people on these forums, and the thread disrupter has just replied to the above part of your post about; except they did so partially and therefore misleadingly.

ISPs generally, to save complication in adverts, refer to being in contract and reaching the end of the contract when there is a minimum term specifed for the service. Customers generally and reasonably follow the same convention.

If there is a such a contractual minimum term, then at the end of that term that contract concerning the term does indeed cease. But for SOHO and most business phone and broadband services it would be highly unlikely that the service(s) would cease at that point. By default a rolling monthly contract would and normally does replace it.

jabbuzzard is right that there was still a contract. But is being pedantic in objecting to your usage of "out of contract". The OP is indeed out of the minimum term contract. I have already said that the form of migration back being used might result in an unjustifiable start of a new one caused by automated systems.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 17:06:28
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet had no legal right to remove the line from the customer, they achieved this by misrepresenting themselves to Openreach as acting with the legal authority of the customer. Whether this was an honest mistake or not does not change the fact they misrepresented themselves as having the legal authority to terminate the original posters contract with Origin. Note as a result that contract is not actually terminated in law.

There is legal recourse against PlusNet, though the it is likely to be prohibitively expensive and drawn out. That said one could get a 4G data sim and router, and send PlusNet the bill, and if they don't pay file in the small claims. They would be silly not to settle.

Personally I would look on Rightmove/Zoopla for a property on the same postcode that has recently sold and visit any matches in person.


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Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 17:18:00
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
That said one could get a 4G data sim and router, and send PlusNet the bill, and if they don't pay file in the small claims. They would be silly not to settle.


They would be silly to settle given information known at this moment, they are not at fault.* I would expect them to fight that and the claimant could lose the filing and hearing fees as well as any of Plusnet's fixed costs, including costs to attend a court local to the claimant.

The core of this so far is failure of the losing provider as admitted and any claim for costs should be directed their way.

*If it is determined as posted since that this was done over the phone by a member of Plusnet's staff simply making a mistake, there could be liability on both them and the losing provider. This is an if at this stage until Plusnet listen to the call if there is one.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest

Edited by uno (Thu 13-Feb-20 17:19:05)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 18:13:44
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Despite stating you have a judge as a brother you clearly don't have the slightest clue as to how the OFCOM mandated procedures for installing broadband operate. I would you suggest sticking to areas where you have genuine and correct knowledge before making ridiculous and incorrect statements as contained in your postings in this thread.
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Thu 13-Feb-20 20:39:43
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Origin told me straightaway it was Plusnet ...............So intriguing how Origin new... I am kind of glad as I have managed to corale from both sides by knowing it is Plusnet..


Maybe, if Origin did a line check on the number or numbers displayed on their system for you they could see a Plusnet modem / router.

That's what happened when I contacted my isp when this same thing happened with my neighbour and I.
................

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Thu 13-Feb-20 20:42:17)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:12:00
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your time on the phone Mr C***


As I advised, I did try calling the individual on the account today on a couple of occasions but have not been able to get through. I do apologise for this.

You have done some investigating yourself this evening, and found a business listed at your property, which also shares a address, with another address close by with a very similar postcode (15, ***** Close, A***, ******, S*****, S***XA). Obviously the first line is very different, but the Postcode is very very similar. You have actually walked around to number 15 and can see it is a newly sold property which appears unoccupied. It seems very coincidental so very possibly this is where the Plusnet Customer lives. However, we still need direct confirmation of this from our customer to accept.

What I have offered we can do, is see if we can listen to the original sales call, and see if we hear what address the Customer provided. If clearly they provided something different to what we have, then it is clearly a mistake and we can take action. Aside from speaking to the Customer, this may be the best thing we can do for now to try and assist you.

S** is back tomorrow, I am back myself at 10.30 AM, so between us one of us should make contact with you.


Thanks for your time today.


Well as you can see I did some investigating and found a Company Name registered at my address - now i Have been here 2 1/2 years and never seen this Company Name before - so I think this has been done recently. And there is another house with the same Company Name around the corner.. When telling plusnet this - they didn't give anything away - but I felt a penny drop with them.. Not sure it will help at all in the end.. but defo seems a coincidence .. and gave me something to do to get the name removed from my house tonight lol...

onward to another day of watching terrestrial tv laugh

(Edit - Just realised the opening line makes it look like Plusnet called me Mr very rude word... they didn't for the record laugh )

Edited by bounderboy (Thu 13-Feb-20 21:53:50)

Standard User gary333
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:40:16
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by gary333:
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.
Just to clarify something I frequently explain to people on these forums, and the thread disrupter has just replied to the above part of your post about; except they did so partially and therefore misleadingly.

ISPs generally, to save complication in adverts, refer to being in contract and reaching the end of the contract when there is a minimum term specifed for the service. Customers generally and reasonably follow the same convention.

If there is a such a contractual minimum term, then at the end of that term that contract concerning the term does indeed cease. But for SOHO and most business phone and broadband services it would be highly unlikely that the service(s) would cease at that point. By default a rolling monthly contract would and normally does replace it.

jabbuzzard is right that there was still a contract. But is being pedantic in objecting to your usage of "out of contract". The OP is indeed out of the minimum term contract. I have already said that the form of migration back being used might result in an unjustifiable start of a new one caused by automated systems.


I agree, I was just using the term as it's used in the industry and not in context that the person has no rights. Companies will use this to wriggle out and reduce the chance of getting anything more than a token gesture compensation without being (as it's known in telecoms) 'in contact'. This is why i mentioned he needs to be ready for a show down.

If he still had 6 months left of his contact it would be much easier to barter for this wiping off, or threatening to take to court or alike due to not fulfilling and asking for credit and then taking this and leaving, hopefully to a better supplier.

I do feel very sorry for the OP - you've been great. I have been umming and arghing if there is anything i can do for him as i can see people I know on my works hierarchy who likely work in a related department in PN. Edit - I don't work for PN btw.

Edited by gary333 (Thu 13-Feb-20 21:43:04)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:47:22
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Regrettably neither Origin nor PlusNet have signed up to the OFCOM Automatic Compensation Scheme which would have meant Origin, or possibly PlusNet, paying the OP £8 for each calendar day that he has been without a usable service.
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 22:05:28
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
I do feel very sorry for the OP - you've been great. I have been umming and arghing if there is anything i can do for him as i can see people I know on my works hierarchy who likely work in a related department in PN. Edit - I don't work for PN btw.


thanks - I was just worried I had hijacked the forum with incessant posting but has given me something to do to know others are out there and most of the advice/support has been brilliant..

Hopefully this thread will provide support.. and I will make sure I post the outcome ... to someone else at some point - though I hope they don't go through it..
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