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Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 14:37:14
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Plusnet Slammed me!


[link to this post]
 
Anyone have any advice. I am with Origin Broadband - one of their limited number of happy customers but this morning my internet stopped working..

The reason is because the line has been "slammed" by Plusnet. No warning. I haven't even looked at Plusnet let alone signed with them..

Being told it will take 14days to get line back to Origin and nothing can be done to be sped up.

I am in shock to be honest. I know its first world problems really but broadband is so important these days.

Any experiences/ advice to expedite this.. ?

Thanks in advance..
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 10-Feb-20 14:49:46
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
A few possibilities.

Someone else might have signed you up as a "practical joke".
Somewhere along the line there may have been an error made.

Did you not get a letter in the post? Origin should have sent you a letter to tell you that PlusNet were trying to take over the line - have you checked with Origin to see if they had a notification and whether they sent the letter or not?

I suspect there is no way really to expedite the switch back - ironically the 14 days is probably because of the 10 working day notification requirement in order to stop slamming.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 14:58:06
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Ian . No notification at all from Origin which i agree would have been very helpful!..

Explanation was:

"Thank you Robert that's great thank you for confirming they're working on it now. That is the part that doesn't make sense I've found it in the back end systems but it doesn't appear that at any time it's filtered to the main ones were notifications would be issued to us and you have been advised of it to make any of us aware, this factor has been sent to the back office for further investigation as this shouldn't be the case. If you still wish to speak to management I'd have to advise you'd need to call in I'm afraid (03300241777) but as I said the complaint itself has been logged and complaints themselves will be in contact within 5 working days of today. "]

Oh how I love irony... !


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Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 10-Feb-20 15:30:24
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
So in part the problem is down to Origin in that whilst their back end system was apparently aware of the change they failed to send you the "sorry you're leaving" letter as required by OFCOM. This perhaps combined with an unknown new Plusnet customer entering or mistyping their address or phone number when placing their order meant the order went through. Not necessarily slamming but rather an unfortunate combination of mistakes.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 10-Feb-20 15:44:00
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Yes, the system at Origin appears to have dropped the ball here and the safeguards in place to stop this happening for whatever reason didn't. It is unlikely that PlusNet set out to "slam" and actually there was a mistake (probably as you say another customer) and that the backup safeguard at Origin didn't trigger the notification that it should have done.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 16:17:48
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I used the word slammed as that was the terminology used by Origin. Apologies if it was bit hyperbolic.

I managed to speak to really nice guy at Plusnet who could see the order that had gone through and it wasn't me and he couldn't give details but it was someone newly moving in.

He promised to ring me back with an explanation and next steps - however I am not sure what he could do anyway. I think I have probably just helped the guy in the street who stole my provision smile


I wonder if Plusnet could just provision me temporarily or would this be impossible for such a short time? They have the line already.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 10-Feb-20 16:53:58
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Slammed is the normal term but in this case it looks like someone accidentally used the wrong address details. PlusNet did their job. Something went wrong at Origin because their systems should have picked it up and sent you notification but for some reason didn't. PlusNet could possibly provision you but as it stands would probably want to sign you up to a contract - it appears PlusNet did nothing wrong here and they followed the correct processes.

Technically you are on PlusNet but if you don't want to be with them then PlusNet have no contract with you to provide service.

As an aside it is unlikely the person who signed up for the service would get anything out of this - they aren't receiving any service - they haven't stolen your provision as they have nothing to show for it (the provision is on your phone line, not theirs). The only way this is malicious is if the person did it on purpose to cause you difficulties but it sounds like they may have genuinely placed an order but accidentally got the wrong address.
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Mon 10-Feb-20 16:56:15
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Same thing happened to my neighbour when I had a new line fitted with FTTC.

On the Install day I had a working phone but no broadband.
My neighbour lost their broadband same day.
When my isp did a line check they could see my neighbours Global4 modem.

Openreach disconnected their broadband and connected mine to my neighbours line.

Openreach came back next day and connected my broadband back to my line and all was fine with mine.

However, my neighbour had to wait a whole week to get their broadband back.

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 10-Feb-20 17:20:34
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
I used the word slammed as that was the terminology used by Origin. Apologies if it was bit hyperbolic.
If anyone should be apologising it should be Origin as your problem is totally down to their failings. PlusNet and yourself are the innocent parties here. Unfortunately Data Protection laws are what are preventing PlusNet telling you who initiated the change, someone who could well be an immediate neighbour.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 17:24:56
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
As an aside it is unlikely the person who signed up for the service would get anything out of this - they aren't receiving any service - they haven't stolen your provision as they have nothing to show for it (the provision is on your phone line, not theirs). The only way this is malicious is if the person did it on purpose to cause you difficulties but it sounds like they may have genuinely placed an order but accidentally got the wrong address.


Yes totally agree it sounds like a mistake rather than deliberate! Both shafted lol - going to have to read a book or get an early night to night wink
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 17:28:19
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
I used the word slammed as that was the terminology used by Origin. Apologies if it was bit hyperbolic.
If anyone should be apologising it should be Origin as your problem is totally down to their failings. PlusNet and yourself are the innocent parties here. Unfortunately Data Protection laws are what are preventing PlusNet telling you who initiated the change, someone who could well be an immediate neighbour.


Quick update Plusnet haven't called back yet... however Origin Complaints have called back to tell me next steps..

They have put in an 'emergency order' which should hopefully mean, if Plusnet agree that the line can be reinstated much quicker - how much quicker i don't know.. They promised to ring me again tomorrow ASAP when they have another update which I hope they do as I like attentiveness.

I will lose my number though - which I am not bothered about really as don't use it..

Thanks all for listening.
Standard User mikel543
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 18:29:21
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Sounds like Origin ordered a new service, rather than a working line takeover which gets round the 10 working day wait. Once your service is live, origin should be able to raise a line renumber order to get your original number back. I know you're not that bothered about your old number, but thought I would mention it in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Mon 10-Feb-20 22:49:43
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: mikel543] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikel543:
Sounds like Origin ordered a new service, rather than a working line takeover which gets round the 10 working day wait. Once your service is live, origin should be able to raise a line renumber order to get your original number back. I know you're not that bothered about your old number, but thought I would mention it in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.


Yes you are right they did say we can reinstate number once things are sorted.

Plusnet rang back as they promised and said that they are still trying to contact customer to check their details (I assume to check itís not me playing silly [censored]) they can see that Origin have initiated the take back and assuming that everything checks out they will be able to ok it..

Just a little bit of extra information I do have working telephone and new number which is I assume through plusnet - luck I am not nefarious otherwise I could be making some calls to my sister in Australia foc smile

Plusnet seemed confident assuming no hiccups I might be up and running quite soon - however phone would be first before broadband - so fingers crossed! Thanks all
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Tue 11-Feb-20 15:53:15
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Well update:

Plusnet - looking into this still but need the new customer to confirm I am not telling porkies - but they can't get hold of them at all and keep trying.. They have an escalated team on it. To be fair they have been quite responsive if not productive as yet.

Origin: Rang me with update but couldn't take call. I have rang back but they don't know who rang me or what the update was.

Ofcom: I contacted them as when I saw the word "slammed" and heard how long the reinstatement was going to take I wanted to call the cavalry earlier..

I will post the email below it's quite long - what i find interesting is they seem to be concerned how I knew it was Plusnet as much as anything else...


Thank you for contacting Ofcom regarding your complaint.

I understand from your correspondence that your internet stopped working, so you contacted your provider who advised you that PlusNet had ceased your line. You mentioned that you have not arranged for PlusNet or any other provider to take over the line. I appreciate your concern and I hope the information provided is helpful.

If an order is placed for a line without the customers permission, or a transfer to another provider goes ahead, this is what is known in the industry as slamming. Slamming is a serious form of mis-selling. We are firmly committed to preventing the mis-selling of phone and broadband services, particularly slamming and have rules in place to give greater protection for consumers by enabling us to take swift and effective action against offending companies. If we identify evidence to suggest that a service provider is in breach of these regulations, we may investigate and take action that we deem to be appropriate.

As a safeguarding measure to prevent slamming from occurring, service providers must send notification to consumers to inform them that an order has placed an order for the service, and this is known as a sorry to see you go letter. A letter should also be sent addressed to the occupant of the property from the new provider informing them that the line has been requested.

Although you mentioned that PlusNet disconnected the service, it is unclear how Origin Broadband obtained this information. To find out for certain exactly what has occurred with your line and if any order has been placed, I have requested further information from Openreach. Openreach is the independent organisation which maintains the BT network. They have an accurate record of which company is providing service on a particular phone line at any time, and if an order was placed for your line, they should have a record of it. I should explain that Openreach can only if the phone line has been taken over, we cannot obtain information on the broadband only; however, we usually find that providers tend to take over both services simultaneously.

The information we receive from Openreach assists us in formally recording the complaint against the correct provider. If you wish to find out the findings of this report, please call us after four working days for the results quoting the reference number at the top of this email and we will be able to advise you of the next steps. We can be contacted on 020 7981 3040 or 0300 123 3333 Monday Ė Friday excluding bank holidays from 9am Ė 5pm. Once we have the information from Openreach, we will be able to advise you of the next steps.

Thank you for taking the time to contact Ofcom. While our remit does not allow us to become involved in individual cases, the information we collate from consumers is monitored and if we identify evidence that a service provider is in breach of our regulations, we may investigate and take any action that we deem appropriate.

I hope the information provided has been useful.


All very weird and interesting - more interesting if it wasn't me caught in the middle..
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Feb-20 16:57:10
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
AIUI Ofcom are right to wonder how you know it is Plusnet that have taken over the line, as Origin shouldn't have any way of knowing.

I can think how I would check, but how did you?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:07:53
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
AIUI Ofcom are right to wonder how you know it is Plusnet that have taken over the line, as Origin shouldn't have any way of knowing.

I can think how I would check, but how did you?


Origin told me straightaway it was Plusnet and I confirmed it with Plusnet directly as they could see an order on the line - but couldn't tell me anymore of course. 'Perhaps someone on the street that has moved in recently was only hint given..' So intriguing how Origin new... I am kind of glad as I have managed to corale from both sides by knowing it is Plusnet..

How could one find out?
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:11:48
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Did PlusNet send you a router through the post? Have you checked with PlusNet whether they have the right address for service? Neither of these should necessarily point to anything but it would be interesting if the person was legitimate and ordered a router then where did it go?

Also interesting is that Ofcom think that both PlusNet and Origin should have sent you letters. I didn't know that was the case I thought it was just the losing provider. If it is the case then where did the letter PlusNet sent go (or did they miss that part of the process as well in which case both providers failed to follow Ofcom's rules)?
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:19:08
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
AIUI Ofcom are right to wonder how you know it is Plusnet that have taken over the line, as Origin shouldn't have any way of knowing.


The losing provider will see the gaining RID of the company that has placed the order as well as the cease order type. Each RID is unique to any comms supplier placing the order which is how they would have known.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:38:19
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
I used the word slammed as that was the terminology used by Origin. Apologies if it was bit hyperbolic.
If anyone should be apologising it should be Origin as your problem is totally down to their failings. PlusNet and yourself are the innocent parties here. Unfortunately Data Protection laws are what are preventing PlusNet telling you who initiated the change, someone who could well be an immediate neighbour.


I don't believe that is the case. I would firstly note that it is your line not the person trying to take it over, and you are entitled under data protection to all information any party holds about you. Under GDPR your phone number would be considered personal identifying information. So PlusNet need to hand it over, and the party that gave them the wrong information only has themselves to blame if they don't like it.

I would further note that failure to correct wrong information is an offence, and it would appear that PlusNet are refusing to correct the wrong information until they have got approval from a random third party. If they are going down the data protection route they don't get to pick and choose which bits they are choosing to apply.

Then while it was presumably a mistake, it is also potentially an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. That is they made a false representation that was untrue, that they knew or should have know to be untrue that exposed another to a risk of loss. You could be running a business on the line for all PlusNet know. I would threaten if they won't tell you who has committed fraud by dishonestly trying to take over your line that you will report it the police smile
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:43:19
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
PlusNet did their job.


Nope, they lied about data protection issues. That is they refused point blank as required to disclose all the information they had about someone (it's their line) and then refused to correct the wrong information that they had once informed it was wrong.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Feb-20 17:54:53
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Ah, thanks for that Matt.

I didn't know that was the case. I thought one of the reasons for the change of system from the old MAC one was to hide the old provider ID from the new, and vice versa.

I am absolutely sure I can rely on what you say smile. It's probable I've been misled in the past by CS who had no involvement or knowledge of the detail of the technicalities of migration.

What is odd however is that Ofcom seem to be under the same impression as myself, as quoted by the OP:-
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Although you mentioned that PlusNet disconnected the service, it is unclear how Origin Broadband obtained this information. To find out for certain exactly what has occurred with your line and if any order has been placed, I have requested further information from Openreach. Openreach is the independent organisation which maintains the BT network. They have an accurate record of which company is providing service on a particular phone line at any time, and if an order was placed for your line, they should have a record of it. I should explain that Openreach can only if the phone line has been taken over, we cannot obtain information on the broadband only; however, we usually find that providers tend to take over both services simultaneously.
Could it be that the drafters of the regulation don't/didn't know that Openreach display that information?

(Interestingly whoever wrote email from Ofcom made a mess of the final sentence, or it was corrupted during the edit by the OP, but that's irrelevant to the discussion).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 18:00:13
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Could it be that the drafters of the regulation don't/didn't know that Openreach display that information?


Anything is possible.

Either way, on losing orders you see the gaining CP via their unique Ofcom issued RID; that is used when the order placed.

I suspect Ofcom will get a response from Openreach saying that the losing provider are provided that information so it can be shared with the end user to ensure that any migration order seen is as expected; essentially a sanity check if the customer isn't sure the order is one they are expecting to see etc.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Feb-20 18:16:24
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Ta smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Tue 11-Feb-20 18:28:43
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It's nothing to do with any isp. It's Openreach faulty workmanship.

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User gary333
(committed) Tue 11-Feb-20 18:37:18
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
In reply to a post by ian72:
PlusNet did their job.


Nope, they lied about data protection issues. That is they refused point blank as required to disclose all the information they had about someone (it's their line) and then refused to correct the wrong information that they had once informed it was wrong.


I am not sure you are correct here as the line is not the property of the customer, and the original 'provider' and customer of the line is via an unconnected (legal) entity.

As far as Plusnet are concerned the original user of the line is not one of their customers. As the line has had no objection against it (due to bad process from old supplier) the line has been migrated over to their (Plusnet) system.

In this scenario Plusnet should not be providing any PII (personally identifiiable information) of the person who has signed up with them as that would be a breach of GDPR (unless the sign-up was made in the OP's name).

Really the burden should fall to Origin as they have broken their regulatory requirements along with the contract with the customer. It should not b e down to the customer of Origin to make any contact with Plusnet.

Because Plusnet have been notified they should be performing their internal checks, and investigating. However, sharing who signed up with them should not be happening, so sounds like the process (albeit poor for the OP) is running at least from a following of GDPR as it should.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Tue 11-Feb-20 18:50:43
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
An update from Plusnet:

Good afternoon Mr. C

Thank you for your time on the phone today, I am pleased that we were able to speak directly about your phone number issue.

Thank you for raising your query with our former CEO Andy Baker and I do apologise that you have had to do so.

My name is *** and I work in the Customer Advocates team that deals with complaints. I will now be taking personal ownership of the complaint for you and will keep you updated throughout the process.

I am sorry that your phone and broadband services have been taken over by Plusnet as from Monday 10/02/20, and for the inconvenience that this is causing you. I appreciate that this has left you in an awkward position, and that your current provider Origin has advised you that it can take 14 days for them to takeover the services.

I understand that you spoke to a colleague C*** in the Provisioning team yesterday when you were aware of what had happened, and that he had advised you of the steps that he would take.

He tried to contact our customer yesterday to clarify the details, and to check the address and landline number, and I have tried again today several times to establish contact, so far without success.


I will continue to try to make contact, in order to see how and where the error has occurred. As I cannot take any action regarding the phone line until this contact is made, I will continue to try, and I will let you know as soon as I have.

I apologise for the delay in the meantime, and for the disruption that this is causing you.

Thank you again for your time.

Warm regards,


I really don't care why - just release my line!!

I have just heard from Orgin too: They are still trying to get Plusnet to release the line and can't do anything except chasng till they do - they are updating me at 12pm tomorrow..

I am going to send PlusNet a reply - is GDPR appropriate to mention as mentioned by Jabuzzard. ? They never had my phone number or name - until i gave it to them - but obviously they had my address on record to initiate the transfer. I am the houseowner too. I am so tempted to go knocking on doors...!!

Also someone mentioned receiving a router - not received anything no. Which is odd itself. If I had I would be opening it up now and plugging it in!

The saga continues thanks for reading through and commenting...
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:03:59
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
I am going to send PlusNet a reply - is GDPR appropriate to mention as mentioned by Jabuzzard. ? They never had my phone number or name - until i gave it to them - but obviously they had my address on record to initiate the transfer. I am the houseowner too. I am so tempted to go knocking on doors...!!


Unlikely. If they didn't have the number, it sounds like whoever placed this order did so accidentally. It could have been as simple as just selecting the wrong address from the drop down and not double checking.

Likewise, Plusnet may have re-numbered this line as part of a line takeover.

There are lots of unknowns and it sounds like the right people at Plusnet are on the case but in reality, they didn't do anything wrong and have acted in good faith. They have accepted an order from a customer, which appears to have been placed at the wrong address by that person.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:15:17
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Forget orders and all that [censored].... Openreach just screwed it up!!

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:17:19
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:
Forget orders and all that [censored].... Openreach just screwed it up!!


I may have missed the post but where has it been determined that Openreach have screwed up? They'll do as told. They had an order from Plusnet, they actioned that. They had the losing notification generated on the backend system at the losing provider which didn't get to their main system.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:20:16
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I'm amazed that boll**ox it censored on here...... how sad!!!

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:21:53
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Rubbish.... Look at my earlier post that you have missed!!

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:24:01
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
I've read it but these appear to be two different issues. It's easy to say "rubbish" without knowing all the facts, which still, to this point, are not known.

Your issue appears to just be a mistake when switching a cable which was fixed next day. The OP has actually had their line taken by another order and won't be a simple cable switch and is not an Openreach mistake.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest

Edited by uno (Tue 11-Feb-20 19:25:10)

Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Tue 11-Feb-20 19:43:17
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Rubbish!!! Same thing backwards!!!!!!

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 21:39:35
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
It's nothing to do with any isp. It's Openreach faulty workmanship.
The problem has nothing whatsoever to do with Openreach or faulty workmanship. The problem appears to be that PlusNet intiated a change of supplier based on incorrect information supplied by a new customer of PlusNet compounded and exacerbated by Origin's failure to notify the OP as required by OFCOM that his line was being moved to another supplier.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 21:40:49
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Forget orders and all that [censored].... Openreach just screwed it up!!
Yet more clueless rubbish. Get a grip and read what happened.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Tue 11-Feb-20 21:42:25
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Rubbish!!! Same thing backwards!!!!!!
Please try and read and understand the OP's problem and its cause before posting.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 11-Feb-20 22:40:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:
It's nothing to do with any isp. It's Openreach faulty workmanship.
As you might have gathered from other responses, one at least being infinitely more authorative than myself, you seem to have no clue whatsoever about how the migration system works, and how little influence Openreach have over it other than processing orders from (their) customers (ISPs/CPs) wink.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 11-Feb-20 22:41:44)

Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 10:19:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:
Forget orders and all that [censored].... Openreach just screwed it up!!


I may have missed the post but where has it been determined that Openreach have screwed up? They'll do as told. They had an order from Plusnet, they actioned that. They had the losing notification generated on the backend system at the losing provider which didn't get to their main system.

Matt


This is a correct round up - as Uno and others said the stuff about openreach is not the problem I am having or ever suggested having.. This just clouding the original problem.

Anyway I will wait till 12pm - fingerscrossed. Not holding much hope.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 14:20:05
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
No update from either party sigh.... Had to chase.

I know I am being hyper zealous but can't let it go...
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 15:13:35
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Not sure if this is interesting but heard from Origin; they have had no more contact from Plusnet. And suggested I poke them if I can. Well I have....

I did phone Ofcom and they were very nice but they kind of confirmed what others have said.

The only code break really was Origin not contacting me about the cease at all. It is in PlusNets rights to keep hold of the line until they understand where the problem has happened. There is no way to pressure them to release the line quicker - well not officially anyway - or any timescale for doing so. Lady I spoke to seemed unconcerned about Plusnets details being given out by Origin - to be honest I would feel even more helpless if they hadn't/couldn't or wouldn't...

Anyway saga goes on... Weekend and Half term approaching joy
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Feb-20 15:22:51
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
I think worst case here is that someone did it maliciously and gave false details - that could mean PlusNet will really struggle to find a possibly fictional person to confirm it with. You would think if you can prove it is your address and line that would be enough to cancel the other order and release the line but I don't know the internal processes.

Have plusnet agreed to provide you a temporary service in the meantime whilst they do their investigation?

Edited by ian72 (Wed 12-Feb-20 15:23:29)

Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 16:50:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
I think worst case here is that someone did it maliciously and gave false details - that could mean PlusNet will really struggle to find a possibly fictional person to confirm it with. You would think if you can prove it is your address and line that would be enough to cancel the other order and release the line but I don't know the internal processes.

Have plusnet agreed to provide you a temporary service in the meantime whilst they do their investigation?


I would like to think it isn't Malicious but as you say the worst case and unlikely.

I have said to Plusnet if they need ID, Bills anything to prove i am resident and owner of the property I am happy to supply it. Also told them the phone number of the new line which I couldn't possibly know without having physical access.

I mentioned to them about giving me temporary access but they said Origin would have to sort that out.. Which is ridiculous and stupid of course and I don't think she understood how they might be able to do that.. I just need a login and password I reckon!..
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Wed 12-Feb-20 16:56:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Not sure if this is interesting but heard from Origin; they have had no more contact from Plusnet. And suggested I poke them if I can.


Are Origin directly speaking with Plusnet or are they going through Openreach? It may be impossible to find out with any certainty.

Plusnet can't keep the line. If Origin have placed a migration back to them, it'll follow the standard Ofcom mandated transfer process and this will be with at least 10 working days between being placed and completion. Plusnet (themselves) don't have the ability to allow this to happen earlier on a standard migration.

You can check if an order is in progress at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and looking for a line at the bottom showing open orders for x date knowing it has been placed as such, especially if around 2 weeks from when you first raised with them.

For transfers that are done in error, there is an erroneous transfer process but depending on the old/new technology/network, often this is just a normal order as above and a case of waiting.

Whilst the "new" (non-MAC) system works well, there is a lot of reliance on the old provider ensuring that notices are sent. When they are not, situations like this occur. This was one of the original concerns that was raised in the consultation when Ofcom suggested the GPL process.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 17:23:03
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Hi Matt,

Your calming lovely voice over reason is so reassuring.


Are Origin directly speaking with Plusnet or are they going through Openreach? It may be impossible to find out with any certainty.


I am not sure to be honest and will ask Origin later.. Just had quite fair but firm talk with Plusnet and they seemed to infer they would only consult with Openreach and only when they conclude their investigation on where the problem occurred. This is all rests on speaking with the customer and until that happens nothing can be done.

Plusnet can't keep the line. If Origin have placed a migration back to them, it'll follow the standard Ofcom mandated transfer process and this will be with at least 10 working days between being placed and completion. Plusnet (themselves) don't have the ability to allow this to happen earlier on a standard migration.

You can check if an order is in progress at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and looking for a line at the bottom showing open orders for x date knowing it has been placed as such, especially if around 2 weeks from when you first raised with them.


I have a date of the 25th Feb which is 14 days from the initial problem. I was told this was worst case scenario but had to put it in there if nothing else works. Which makes sense. What plusnet are stopping is the Urgent Transfer back - if this exists - I was told by Plusnet and Origin that something like this exists and could be done in 24-48hrs if all parties are in sync.

For transfers that are done in error, there is an erroneous transfer process but depending on the old/new technology/network, often this is just a normal order as above and a case of waiting.


Perhaps this is the Urgent Transfer - sorry can't remember exact wording!


I probably just need to settle down for the long haul but just feel I am waiting totally unnecessarily for someone who filled out a form wrong somewhere to answer a phone and say sorry yes that is right!..

I assume in a few days time I will receive a letter addressed to the New Plusnet Customer saying sorry you are leaving us as per Ofcom ruling so I will know who it is then! To give them 10 days notice before 25th.. That will be interesting... something to look forward to...
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Wed 12-Feb-20 17:23:36
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
It is in PlusNets rights to keep hold of the line until they understand where the problem has happened. There is no way to pressure them to release the line quicker - well not officially anyway - or any timescale for doing so. Lady I spoke to seemed unconcerned about Plusnets details being given out by Origin - to be honest I would feel even more helpless if they hadn't/couldn't or wouldn't...


Actually that's not the case. While one may argue that PlusNet acted in good faith, they did so without valid legal authorization to do so. Only the legal owner of the line (aka yourself) is able to do that. The fact that Origin failed to notify you is irrelevant to the fact that PlusNet did not have legal authorization to take over your line.

Happened to my brother just before Christmas, though TalkTalk did notify him. However PlusNet then just resubmitted the order for a second time. However the customer trying to take over his line in this case was known, as someone had moved into another property in his courtyard and was using the wrong address (I figure you have to be pretty dumb not to know the address you have just spend half a million on).

Anyway the mistake PlusNet made was my brother is a salaried Judge (as opposed to a fee paid aka zero hours one). They where made plainly aware that if they attempted to take over his line again they would find themselves in court.

The Ofcom procedures are an attempt to keep things out of court because that is simpler for all around. However by persisting in refusing to accept their mistake and release the line back to it's rightful owner PlusNet are committing fraud (they now know the information is wrong so have no defence about not known the information was wrong), and you have suffered a loss (fraud does not require someone to gain just someone to loose out).

I would demand of PlusNet the release of the line, and compensation, with a temporary service in the meantime. If they won't then call the police and tell them you believe someone is doing it maliciously. I would be tempted to issue a letter before action as well.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Wed 12-Feb-20 17:31:16
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
I have a date of the 25th Feb which is 14 days from the initial problem. I was told this was worst case scenario but had to put it in there if nothing else works. Which makes sense. What plusnet are stopping is the Urgent Transfer back - if this exists - I was told by Plusnet and Origin that something like this exists and could be done in 24-48hrs if all parties are in sync.


Perhaps this is the Urgent Transfer - sorry can't remember exact wording!


Very much the same thing. smile

I probably just need to settle down for the long haul but just feel I am waiting totally unnecessarily for someone who filled out a form wrong somewhere to answer a phone and say sorry yes that is right!..


Without knowing every intricate detail from both ends, that is probably best. Although even if they did that, I wouldn't expect the way it is being dealt with to be handled any different, especially if there are system constraints in the middle (i.e Openreach - a non-fault party).

I assume in a few days time I will receive a letter addressed to the New Plusnet Customer saying sorry you are leaving us as per Ofcom ruling so I will know who it is then! To give them 10 days notice before 25th..


They may send via another method entirely, or potentially to a "bill to" address if Plusnet allow different service and billing addresses.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest

Edited by uno (Wed 12-Feb-20 17:31:26)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Feb-20 17:55:57
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet are committing fraud
I think if you were to ask your brother about this, you would find the worst offence (if any) Plusnet could be accused of would be a tort. Not fraud as you have (boringly) claimed several times in the thread.

On the subject of incorrect words, I suggest you also look up the meaning of "loose", which you have used many times. It is nothing at all to do with the verb "to lose". It is an adjective, frequently used in association with the noun "screw".

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User gary333
(committed) Wed 12-Feb-20 20:23:04
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, but the customer doesnít own the phone line, they merely rent / lease the right to use it. So, in this instance there would be no chance of any legal action against Plusnet.

As I said above you might have some recourse with Origin with regards to not upholding the service you both agreed to be contracted to (providing you were still in contract upon losing the service).

Unfortunately a consequence of making switching easier means things like this are going to happen. Youíd hope that companies would work together in these instances, but some companies are poorer than others. In the utilities industry where I provide services for you find the equivalent issue to this (called erroneous transfers) and most of the big companies have internally facing direct contract numbers to resolve these issues swiftly. Although at least for utilities you donít end up with no service in this instance.
Standard User bounderboy
(newbie) Wed 12-Feb-20 22:06:38
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Although at least for utilities you donít end up with no service in this instance.


Thanks for the reply. I assume I am still in contract with Origin if I haven't given notice to leave even though the fixed term has expired? - what sort of recourse could I have - I assume I don't have a tight SLA at all.... ?
Standard User gary333
(committed) Wed 12-Feb-20 22:43:31
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.

From a utilities point of view youíd get £30 for an erroneous transfer not agreed within 20 days from both suppliers, £30 if the supplier doesnít send out 20 day letter and £30 if you are not re-registered within 21 days. So potentially £120, and in these cases youíd still be getting gas and/or electric flowing out the wall smile

Edited by gary333 (Wed 12-Feb-20 22:45:58)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 10:14:36
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.


I am out of my fixed term contract - so could leave if I wanted to - does this class me as being out of contract with an ISP? However as we know I had no intention of leaving.

Do I start talking compensation or do I wait to see what their response is to my complaint.? I have already informed OFCOM so I have probably burnt that leverage smile

To be honest I just want to concentrate on getting it back quicker than 25th Feb as it stands now..
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Feb-20 12:56:24
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
You are still in contract with them, you just aren't getting a preferential deal for signing up to a minimum period. Likelihood is you have a rolling 1 month contract/notice period.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 13-Feb-20 13:52:40
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
As long as what seems likely to end up as a normal inward migration doesn't automatically start a new minimum term. That could of course then be argued against, with considerable force, as the whole problem appears to have been a failure in Origin back office systems.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Feb-20 15:20:53
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Indeed - the OP has never broken contract and the only reason it has moved away is because Origin didn't send the letter - it would be very easy to argue that it is Origin's error and therefore the OP should not be left out of pocket due to this.

I have to say I think the OP has shown an amazing level of calm so far and am impressed with their approach to the problem.
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 15:51:30
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Spoke to Plusnet again ... and played good cop, as a new person that was looking after it.

he was really helpful. Still unable to get hold of the customer. They have tried Emailing, Phone and texting ("him") customer. And the texts are not just standard ones but personally written ones. They said perhaps they have gone on holiday - but who doesn't get texts on holiday.

He explained that in some cases they don't need to send a router as in some cases the person is just moving house and taking it with them perhaps. He can't speak in this case specifically of course.

After pressing him more he came up with idea of listening to the call where the order was placed to see if there was an obvious mistake from the operator when the address was being taken for the new line.
And I am hoping I tweaked his interest to go full Inspector Clouseau and check that they are not the ones making a mistake.. Obviously if the caller said my address I am in same position but it feels an avenue of enquiry.

He said the cut off point for trying to contact customer and admitting the mistake in ordering is basically the take over Origin have planned. They would not block the transfer from happening or anything. Which I already knew but at least their policy is clearer to me.

Anyway fingers crossed the phone call digs something up...
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:14:20
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
PlusNet are committing fraud
I think if you were to ask your brother about this, you would find the worst offence (if any) Plusnet could be accused of would be a tort. Not fraud as you have (boringly) claimed several times in the thread.


Read the Fraud Act 2006. Fraud is the use of false information that results in a loss to a party. PlusNet used false information which has resulted in a loss to a party. That's not fraud because?

On the subject of incorrect words, I suggest you also look up the meaning of "loose", which you have used many times. It is nothing at all to do with the verb "to lose". It is an adjective, frequently used in association with the noun "screw".


Would it be fine to poke at a physically disabled persons disability? Nope. I am dyslexic, perhaps you should think twice next time.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:26:53
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.


There is no such thing as being "out of contract" there is either a contract and Origin provide a service or there is not and they don't. I have repeatedly heard my brother comment on this nonsense companies put out. It's like 101 contract law.

I would also note that Origin could have provided the notice as required and it could have got lost in a post, or the customer could have been on that three week holiday of a lifetime to the Galapagos islands and returned home to find the letter and no internet service.

The purpose of the notifying the customer is to reduce mistaken transfers and keep the resulting fallout, out of the courts. It does not excuse PlusNet's continuing behaviour after being notified of the fault, neither is Origin's failure a mistake. It is quite possible that had the notification been sent by Origin that PlusNet would just have resubmitted the order again. They have form to do that.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:30:07
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Would it be fine to poke at a physically disabled persons disability? Nope. I am dyslexic, perhaps you should think twice next time.
That isn't dyslexia. It is plain ignorance. (Easy enough to count the number of "o"s). As is not knowing the difference between a fraud and a tort. Nor did I poke fun at you, I expressed disapproval.

Nor is dyslexia a physical disability. I suggest anyone suffering from it would know that. Whether you have a physical disability, (which I could not know), or not is completely irrelevant to spelling mistakes or dyslexia. I accept it is possible to have both a physical disability and dyslexia but there is no necessary connection.

So - find out the difference between a fraud and a tort, and in future please count the number of "o"s when you mean the verb "lose".

Your main aim in the thread seems to be to create chaos anyway. Everybody else is pointing out that Plusnet are not prima facie at fault. and the OP has been told by Origin that they failed to notify him of the fact the line and broadband were being taken away from them.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:32:11
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
As long as what seems likely to end up as a normal inward migration doesn't automatically start a new minimum term. That could of course then be argued against, with considerable force, as the whole problem appears to have been a failure in Origin back office systems.


Nope legally the problem was PlusNet misrepresenting themselves to Openreach as acting with the authority of the person holding the "ownership" of the line. That is there was a legally binding contract with Origin that only Origin and/or the original poster where entitled to terminate. PlusNet misrepresented themselves as acting on behalf of the original poster (they were not) and terminated the contract. In law the contract is not terminated because PlusNet didn't have authority to terminate the contract.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:39:17
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
Would it be fine to poke at a physically disabled persons disability? Nope. I am dyslexic, perhaps you should think twice next time.
That isn't dyslexia. It is plain ignorance. (Easy enough to count the number of "o"s). As is not knowing the difference between a fraud and a tort. Nor did I poke fun at you, I expressed disapproval.


Clearly you don't know how dyslexia works, because yes that is very much the result of my dyslexia.

You most likely think going around passing comments on someones physical disability is unacceptable, but if someone has a mental disability (specific learning disabilities of which dyslexia is one count) it is just peachy. It's not and you should be suitable chastened. If you where my boss and had done that in a work place could be in for a whole world of hurt. I would be filing a grievance right now with HR.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:43:09
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet followed the industry mandated procedure as set out by Ofcom. When I moved house I placed an order on BT despite the fact I wasn't moving in for another week so that the process could start. The current owner would have received a letter and if I had made a mistake or I had been malicious then they would have contacted their ISP to tell them not to allow the transfer.

PlusNet were not fraudulent. PlusNet acted on an order as per the process laid down by Ofcom. PlusNet could not know if the person who requested it had a "right" to do so and are not required to find out. PlusNet did nothing fraudulent - the requestor may have done something fraudulent and may not as it could have been an honest mistake.

A definition of fraud
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
Fraud appears to require intent. It cannot be fraud if there was no intent to commit fraud. There is also no point in PlusNet committing the fraud as the owner is not paying the bill - the new requestor is paying the bill and they aren't gaining as they would be paying for a service they are not receiving - where is the gain for pay £x per month for something you don't get? PlusNet only gain if they manage to slam the connection and that the owner of the connection is paying the bill - they have nothing to gain in this circumstance.

EDIT : I would recommend reading section 2 here. For fraud you have to have intent and you have to know that the information you are providing is false - I would find it amazing if a court would find that PlusNet were guilty of this under this case

Edited by ian72 (Thu 13-Feb-20 16:47:26)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 13-Feb-20 16:54:51
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.
Just to clarify something I frequently explain to people on these forums, and the thread disrupter has just replied to the above part of your post about; except they did so partially and therefore misleadingly.

ISPs generally, to save complication in adverts, refer to being in contract and reaching the end of the contract when there is a minimum term specifed for the service. Customers generally and reasonably follow the same convention.

If there is a such a contractual minimum term, then at the end of that term that contract concerning the term does indeed cease. But for SOHO and most business phone and broadband services it would be highly unlikely that the service(s) would cease at that point. By default a rolling monthly contract would and normally does replace it.

jabbuzzard is right that there was still a contract. But is being pedantic in objecting to your usage of "out of contract". The OP is indeed out of the minimum term contract. I have already said that the form of migration back being used might result in an unjustifiable start of a new one caused by automated systems.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 17:06:28
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
PlusNet had no legal right to remove the line from the customer, they achieved this by misrepresenting themselves to Openreach as acting with the legal authority of the customer. Whether this was an honest mistake or not does not change the fact they misrepresented themselves as having the legal authority to terminate the original posters contract with Origin. Note as a result that contract is not actually terminated in law.

There is legal recourse against PlusNet, though the it is likely to be prohibitively expensive and drawn out. That said one could get a 4G data sim and router, and send PlusNet the bill, and if they don't pay file in the small claims. They would be silly not to settle.

Personally I would look on Rightmove/Zoopla for a property on the same postcode that has recently sold and visit any matches in person.
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 17:18:00
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
That said one could get a 4G data sim and router, and send PlusNet the bill, and if they don't pay file in the small claims. They would be silly not to settle.


They would be silly to settle given information known at this moment, they are not at fault.* I would expect them to fight that and the claimant could lose the filing and hearing fees as well as any of Plusnet's fixed costs, including costs to attend a court local to the claimant.

The core of this so far is failure of the losing provider as admitted and any claim for costs should be directed their way.

*If it is determined as posted since that this was done over the phone by a member of Plusnet's staff simply making a mistake, there could be liability on both them and the losing provider. This is an if at this stage until Plusnet listen to the call if there is one.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest

Edited by uno (Thu 13-Feb-20 17:19:05)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 18:13:44
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Despite stating you have a judge as a brother you clearly don't have the slightest clue as to how the OFCOM mandated procedures for installing broadband operate. I would you suggest sticking to areas where you have genuine and correct knowledge before making ridiculous and incorrect statements as contained in your postings in this thread.
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Thu 13-Feb-20 20:39:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Origin told me straightaway it was Plusnet ...............So intriguing how Origin new... I am kind of glad as I have managed to corale from both sides by knowing it is Plusnet..


Maybe, if Origin did a line check on the number or numbers displayed on their system for you they could see a Plusnet modem / router.

That's what happened when I contacted my isp when this same thing happened with my neighbour and I.
................

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Thu 13-Feb-20 20:42:17)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:12:00
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your time on the phone Mr C***


As I advised, I did try calling the individual on the account today on a couple of occasions but have not been able to get through. I do apologise for this.

You have done some investigating yourself this evening, and found a business listed at your property, which also shares a address, with another address close by with a very similar postcode (15, ***** Close, A***, ******, S*****, S***XA). Obviously the first line is very different, but the Postcode is very very similar. You have actually walked around to number 15 and can see it is a newly sold property which appears unoccupied. It seems very coincidental so very possibly this is where the Plusnet Customer lives. However, we still need direct confirmation of this from our customer to accept.

What I have offered we can do, is see if we can listen to the original sales call, and see if we hear what address the Customer provided. If clearly they provided something different to what we have, then it is clearly a mistake and we can take action. Aside from speaking to the Customer, this may be the best thing we can do for now to try and assist you.

S** is back tomorrow, I am back myself at 10.30 AM, so between us one of us should make contact with you.


Thanks for your time today.


Well as you can see I did some investigating and found a Company Name registered at my address - now i Have been here 2 1/2 years and never seen this Company Name before - so I think this has been done recently. And there is another house with the same Company Name around the corner.. When telling plusnet this - they didn't give anything away - but I felt a penny drop with them.. Not sure it will help at all in the end.. but defo seems a coincidence .. and gave me something to do to get the name removed from my house tonight lol...

onward to another day of watching terrestrial tv laugh

(Edit - Just realised the opening line makes it look like Plusnet called me Mr very rude word... they didn't for the record laugh )

Edited by bounderboy (Thu 13-Feb-20 21:53:50)

Standard User gary333
(committed) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:40:16
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by gary333:
Iíd be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they donít charge you for the time youíve been without service. Itís the least Iíd expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract theyíll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So itíll need to be complain time.
Just to clarify something I frequently explain to people on these forums, and the thread disrupter has just replied to the above part of your post about; except they did so partially and therefore misleadingly.

ISPs generally, to save complication in adverts, refer to being in contract and reaching the end of the contract when there is a minimum term specifed for the service. Customers generally and reasonably follow the same convention.

If there is a such a contractual minimum term, then at the end of that term that contract concerning the term does indeed cease. But for SOHO and most business phone and broadband services it would be highly unlikely that the service(s) would cease at that point. By default a rolling monthly contract would and normally does replace it.

jabbuzzard is right that there was still a contract. But is being pedantic in objecting to your usage of "out of contract". The OP is indeed out of the minimum term contract. I have already said that the form of migration back being used might result in an unjustifiable start of a new one caused by automated systems.


I agree, I was just using the term as it's used in the industry and not in context that the person has no rights. Companies will use this to wriggle out and reduce the chance of getting anything more than a token gesture compensation without being (as it's known in telecoms) 'in contact'. This is why i mentioned he needs to be ready for a show down.

If he still had 6 months left of his contact it would be much easier to barter for this wiping off, or threatening to take to court or alike due to not fulfilling and asking for credit and then taking this and leaving, hopefully to a better supplier.

I do feel very sorry for the OP - you've been great. I have been umming and arghing if there is anything i can do for him as i can see people I know on my works hierarchy who likely work in a related department in PN. Edit - I don't work for PN btw.

Edited by gary333 (Thu 13-Feb-20 21:43:04)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-20 21:47:22
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Regrettably neither Origin nor PlusNet have signed up to the OFCOM Automatic Compensation Scheme which would have meant Origin, or possibly PlusNet, paying the OP £8 for each calendar day that he has been without a usable service.
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 13-Feb-20 22:05:28
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
I do feel very sorry for the OP - you've been great. I have been umming and arghing if there is anything i can do for him as i can see people I know on my works hierarchy who likely work in a related department in PN. Edit - I don't work for PN btw.


thanks - I was just worried I had hijacked the forum with incessant posting but has given me something to do to know others are out there and most of the advice/support has been brilliant..

Hopefully this thread will provide support.. and I will make sure I post the outcome ... to someone else at some point - though I hope they don't go through it..
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 13-Feb-20 22:56:13
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Well as you can see I did some investigating and found a Company Name registered at my address - now i Have been here 2 1/2 years and never seen this Company Name before - so I think this has been done recently.


If that is te case then I suggest you get straight onto Companies House and inform them of a company misrepresenting themselves. It may be a genuine mistake however Companies House should investigate it as a potential fraudulent registration.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Fri 14-Feb-20 07:04:23
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
......The OP has actually had their line taken by another order and won't be a simple cable switch and is not an Openreach mistake.

Matt


That's exactly what happened in the case with my neighbours line. They had their line taken too.

When I phoned my isp to ask why I had no broadband, they did a line check for me and said why haven't you connected our new modem / router up that we sent you. We can still see your old Global 4 modem.
To that I replied, I have connected your new modem to my line, and I have never had a Global 4 modem.
However, I know one of my neighbours has a Global 4 modem.
To that the isp replied "Hold on a minute, the phone number of the line I just checked isn't your phone number. It looks like this could be your neighbours phone number". He then read out the number to me (which wasn't my number) and I wrote it down. I then went to my neighbour and asked if the number I had had been given by my isp was his number, and low and behold, it was his number.

Also my isp said I had both lines showing on my account (I only ordered one new line and was a new customer). And indeed the new telephone line I had worked as a telephone line on the correct new number they gave me. So there was no switch of services, it was a new install. So surely my isp wouldn't made a mistake and requested a new install and a switch of services at the same time. Could they? If so where did they get my neighbours number from, in order to switch their service?

When my neighbour phoned his isp, they said the line had been taken away. And was initially told they would have to wait 2 to 3 weeks before their service was reconnected.

When Openreach returned a few days to sort my neighbours out, they spent two whole days down various manholes where we live, trying to sort it out, before they got my neighbour back on line.

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Fri 14-Feb-20 11:17:45)

Standard User clyde123
(member) Fri 14-Feb-20 09:56:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Just want to say I think the OP has handled this situation very professionally, and with great patience.
He's been inconvenienced greatly, and yet has not stamped the feet and thrown all the toys out of the pram.

Commendably the OP has gone out of his way to try to solve whatever happened.
I thoroughly agree with the poster who suggested contacting Companies House and reporting a suspected illegal registration. That registration will already have got on the books at the credit reference agencies. It might all be genuine mistakes, and the new company might do wonderful things. But if in the future that company has any problems, there is a connection to the OP's credit agencies reports.

Separately I wonder whether these letters regularly get sent ? Postage is not cheap any more, and I wonder whether ISPs losing business might want to not spend more money on unproductive admin.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Fri 14-Feb-20 12:16:01
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
This is an error by OR and NOT the same issue as posted by the op.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Feb-20 12:22:18
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jabuzzard:
PlusNet had no legal right to remove the line from the customer, they achieved this by misrepresenting themselves to Openreach as acting with the legal authority of the customer.


Plusnet were acting in good faith on the details they were provided with by the customer wanting to move. So they were acting as requested.
So any misrepresenting was done by the person providing the details... Plusnet have to check with this customer before doing anything further.

For all plusnet know the OP has had a change of heart and is trying to wiggle out of the change. (no offence OP)

Really surprised that Plusnet have not already listened to the call, as that would have been the logical 1st point to check.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Fri 14-Feb-20 12:26:39
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Nobody lies about data protection as there are very few people who understand the new GDPR. Lots of companies hide behind GDPR but it turns out to be company policy for certain rules they impose.

See a lawyer not a judge.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Feb-20 16:23:54
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: clyde123] [link to this post]
 
Separately I wonder whether these letters regularly get sent ? Postage is not cheap any more, and I wonder whether ISPs losing business might want to not spend more money on unproductive admin.
If they decide to purposely not send letters then Ofcom will be going after them, it is an industry requirement to do this.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 14-Feb-20 17:05:14
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Email is perfectly acceptable as long as the customer opts in. (I'm fairly sure this is specified in the Ofcom regulation).

When I moved my phone line to pulse8 years ago there was no snail-mail between us from start to finish. I actually did have to sign a contract and agree to the Ts & Cs by typing on editable PDFs. Not totally foolproof, but better than tick-boxes splattered about.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Fri 14-Feb-20 17:08:36
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Thanks all it's good to know the thread is of interest and not just me moaning.. believe me if I thought throwing my toys out of pram would have worked I would have done laugh But never find that works..

The company name is just on my postcode checker - i can't see it on companies house so i doubt it is registered business name.....

Well heard nothing all day.. have bought 4G gear - and going to bite the bullet have fun setting it up and wait.. then hopefully claim it back from Origin..
Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Fri 14-Feb-20 17:46:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
Separately I wonder whether these letters regularly get sent ? Postage is not cheap any more, and I wonder whether ISPs losing business might want to not spend more money on unproductive admin.
If they decide to purposely not send letters then Ofcom will be going after them, it is an industry requirement to do this.


It does not need to be an actual letter either. It can be another form of communication as long as this has been agreed beforehand, i.e email.

GC7.12 covers that so in this case, it is possible the person who ordered was sent an email.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest

Edited by uno (Fri 14-Feb-20 22:38:07)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Fri 14-Feb-20 21:37:34
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Well I am back online care of 4G Tp-Link Router and a Superdrug unlimited sim for £20/month no contract smile

It cost me £75 for the router so will hopefully be able to wangle some compo to cover some of it!

Will keep you updated but gonna sit tight... Feel like making some calls on my "free" PlusNet phoneline now... the one they refuse to admit i have!
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Fri 14-Feb-20 23:26:21
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
This is an error by OR and NOT the same issue as posted by the op.

Exactly! and Thank You!
........

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Fri 14-Feb-20 23:47:25)

Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Fri 14-Feb-20 23:34:21
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Well I am back online care of 4G Tp-Link Router and ..................
Will keep you updated but gonna sit tight... Feel like making some calls on my "free" PlusNet phoneline now... the one they refuse to admit i have!

I feel for you buddy! Please keep us all updated! ALL the best mate!

Freeserve 0800 Dial-up with Hayes Accura External 336/56k fax modem via com port 2.
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Sat 15-Feb-20 16:50:17
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Well hi all. I have had a relaxing day.. Just chilling on my 4G internet. Just putting the last week to the side. And not even worrying if I have to wait till 25th for reinstatement or if something doesn't got to plan etc. etc.. it was £95 of investment but i am going to push to get a good chunk of that back anyway.

Anyway just had a phone call from Plusnet complaints team with an update. I nearly didn't answer as I wasn't that bothered lol. Anyway glad I did.

In a nutshell they have tried the customer again today and still no reply at all. She pushed this to the management team who have agreed as it has been 5 days that they have agreed to cease the line so that Origin can reclaim it more quickly than the 25th. She inferred my story and own investigations checks out.

I said it is very weird situation and she agreed. I asked if she managed to listen to the phone call and she said they are struggling with that and it appears to be a case of "slamming".

WHHAAT.. Plusnet just used the word "slamming" - this is very intriguing. Wish I had the call recorded.. Surely Plusnet would want to avoid that word at all costs as it is incredibly incriminating..

I asked her to follow up with email (copied below.) obviously didn't mention slamming smile

Anyway I am chilled and not rushing anything..

My next step will be to get a full written follow up to my complaint from both companies as to where the system failure happened and what they are going to do to resolve the complaint. And getting my line restored slightly quicker isn't suitable compensation to me at all. If I don't get suitable answers I will follow up the complaint with Ofcom https://www.ombudsman-services.org/ who should help get a proper answer and suitable restitution.

Anyway a good day I think.... thanks for listening..

Cheers

PS

Copy of update from Plusnet..

Hello Mr. ***,

Thank you for your time on the phone this afternoon.

I have followed up T**ís work yesterday, and as we have not been able to establish contact with the Plusnet customer , I referred this to the relevant manager for review.

It has been decided that the phone line is ceased for our customer, in order for your provider Origin to take action before the takeover date of 25/02/20.

As it can take 24 hours for the line cease to register with our suppliers BT, I would suggest that you contact Origin on Monday 17/02/20 to request that they place a Start of a Stopped Line (SOSL). This can take 24-48 hours to activate the phone. You can ask Origin to place an Urgent Service Restoration request (USR) once the phone order is completed. This will link up with our suppliersí records in order to get your services up and running as quickly as possible.

Thank you again for your time and patience with this matter.



Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 15-Feb-20 21:23:33
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
I see a very interesting post Ö.

Currently latest new thread in this forum, ISP Unhappiness.

When did your line go down? 4 February?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 15-Feb-20 21:32:27)

Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sun 16-Feb-20 10:52:43
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
I don't think you get it.

1. If OR make a mistake and connect the wires to another customer's line, say B - T when it should have been B - S, then that is OR's responsibility.

2. If OR are told to connect B - T and that is what they do then that is NOT their responsibility.


Scenario 1 is what you are talking about.

Scenario 2 is what everyone else on this Post is talking about.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Sun 16-Feb-20 10:56:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Issues happen but it's the speed of correction of the issue that needs to change.

Surely Ofcom could set something up that can speed up the process when things like this happen.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 16-Feb-20 12:16:36
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
They did, in that if Origin had processed the notification and let you know, you could have prevented it happening. That is the basic reason for the 10 working days wait for a migration to take place. It isn't a period set by Openreach. It is required by Ofcom.

It has two stages. The gainer notifies you of what you are buying and other necessary information by letter or email, (you selecting your preference at order time unless they only use email and say so very early on), and the loser lets you know similarly of any final payments are conditions such as returning a router.

AIUI Origin could then have stopped the transfer at your request under Ofcom anti-slamming rules, GC7, Appendix 1, Clause 2(a) and following clauses.

That's assuming you had not received any notification at all from Plusnet, as if you had then your initial action should have been to respond to that telling Plusnet to cancel it. If they refused then once again the above Appendix 1 clauses come into effect and Origin could cancel the order.

Unfortunately, as neither of them seems to have let you know it was happening, none of that applies. But it is the reason for the 10 days. Plusnet should have pulled their finger out more quickly once the error was brought to their attention, to remove the need for that wait and allow the Urgent Transfer sooner.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Sun 16-Feb-20 19:57:32
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
I don't think you get it.

1. If OR make a mistake and connect the wires to another customer's line, say B - T when it should have been B - S, then that is OR's responsibility.

2. If OR are told to connect B - T and that is what they do then that is NOT their responsibility.


Scenario 1 is what you are talking about.

Scenario 2 is what everyone else on this Post is talking about.


I don't care really. I feel For the guy that's going through this issue. It's basically the same as what my neighbour went through, and I was only trying to bring that to his attention as a possible cause. Since all I have suggestested has only been attacked by others that have not even read or acknowledged all the details so far, I will not comment again on this matter..... Or any other matter again... Good bye

Edited by mrmarktigger (Sun 16-Feb-20 20:01:21)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Sun 16-Feb-20 20:19:36
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:
I don't care really. I feel For the guy that's going through this issue. It's basically the same as what my neighbour went through, and I was only trying to bring that to his attention as a possible cause. Since all I have suggestested has only been attacked by others that have not even read or acknowledged all the details so far, I will not comment again on this matter..... Or any other matter again... Good bye


Thanks for the concern it is appreciated but it isn't an openreach mistake - if either Plusnet or Orign could have blamed them that would have been what they would have done but both have admitted failings and how it has happened..

Anyway tomorrow I will be writing emails to both of them telling them what I expect for a resolution to my complaint and both's incompetence..
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Feb-20 12:14:52
Print Post

Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
"It's basically the same as what my neighbour went through"

But it isn't the same, that's the whole point. It's a completely different issue.

No need to comment further just take it on board.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 17-Feb-20 12:24:05
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Re: Plusnet/Origin Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
When PlusNet said slammed they probably meant that another customer slammed you by placing an order - and as has been said that wouldn't have succeeded if your ISP had sent you the notification.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Feb-20 12:25:07
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I know the OP didn't receive the letter or other notification but the fact that the supposed person that ordered the line could not be contacted then there, in my opinion, should be an additional process to sort similar issues out in a more timely manner.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Mon 17-Feb-20 14:50:38
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
I know the OP didn't receive the letter or other notification but the fact that the supposed person that ordered the line could not be contacted then there, in my opinion, should be an additional process to sort similar issues out in a more timely manner.


Completely agree. I think there is process already that means Plusnet shouldn't even place the order unless they are sure that the order is real. They do have to prove that they acted properly with the order and have proof that the order was made correctly.

I just smell something fishy that this order wasn't real at all but have no proof - I don't think it was malicious to me personally... but something feels odd.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Feb-20 15:54:29
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
but something feels odd
What is odd and most likely the cause of the problem is a nearby new company that doesn't know its correct address given that the company has registered its address as that of the OP.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 17-Feb-20 17:16:57
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Completely agree. I think there is process already that means Plusnet shouldn't even place the order unless they are sure that the order is real. They do have to prove that they acted properly with the order and have proof that the order was made correctly.

I just smell something fishy that this order wasn't real at all but have no proof - I don't think it was malicious to me personally... but something feels odd.


And just how are they supposed to know the order is not real?
Someone places a order with the wrong details.
A, how are a isp to know
B, they are acting in good faith on the details they have been given. I would think that if address & phone no did not match the Openreach system would flag a error. As they would hold the correct details.
C. A system is in place to stop this issue. Sadly the OP's isp messed up. that is the whole problem and the cause of the whole mess.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User alexatkin
(member) Mon 17-Feb-20 17:41:14
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JohnR:
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Completely agree. I think there is process already that means Plusnet shouldn't even place the order unless they are sure that the order is real. They do have to prove that they acted properly with the order and have proof that the order was made correctly.

I just smell something fishy that this order wasn't real at all but have no proof - I don't think it was malicious to me personally... but something feels odd.


And just how are they supposed to know the order is not real?
Someone places a order with the wrong details.
A, how are a isp to know
B, they are acting in good faith on the details they have been given. I would think that if address & phone no did not match the Openreach system would flag a error. As they would hold the correct details.
C. A system is in place to stop this issue. Sadly the OP's isp messed up. that is the whole problem and the cause of the whole mess.


What puzzles me about all this is, why is an ISP able to takeover a phone line by address alone?

Surely if an existing contract exists for the phone line at an address, you should need to provide the telephone number as confirmation that you want to transfer the line? Without it, the order should be a new-line order or require a response from the customer to proceed, rather than it being "if we hear nothing we assume its correct".

I think Ofcom have made it WAY too easy to migrate. Sadly this is the way with a lot of things these days where a physical signature is no longer required to enter into/change a contract.
Standard User 69bertie
(member) Mon 17-Feb-20 20:25:59
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alexatkin:
What puzzles me about all this is, why is an ISP able to takeover a phone line by address alone?

Surely if an existing contract exists for the phone line at an address, you should need to provide the telephone number as confirmation that you want to transfer the line? Without it, the order should be a new-line order or require a response from the customer to proceed, rather than it being "if we hear nothing we assume its correct".

I think Ofcom have made it WAY too easy to migrate. Sadly this is the way with a lot of things these days where a physical signature is no longer required to enter into/change a contract.

I'd agree but I would have expected not only the telephone line number but the contracted person to be named.

As to making it way too easy to migrate, I have to disagree. I have recently moved from Plusnet to another ISP. I got letters in the post from both of them. One telling me 'welcome'. The other from PN 'sorry to hear you are leaving'. So the system does work IF the ISP's systems are set up right.

And yes, it was very easy to migrate and I am glad Ofcom finally did something about making it so - same with mobile phones as well. No messing around with waiting on phone lines and then listening to a load of waffle. I just filled in the form with my new ISP and I might add, as part of the sign up I had to supply the telephone number as well as the address. The safeguards are already there. But alas not totally fool proof.

Edited by 69bertie (Mon 17-Feb-20 20:36:37)

Standard User uno
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Feb-20 00:25:34
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by alexatkin:
What puzzles me about all this is, why is an ISP able to takeover a phone line by address alone?

Surely if an existing contract exists for the phone line at an address, you should need to provide the telephone number as confirmation that you want to transfer the line? Without it, the order should be a new-line order or require a response from the customer to proceed, rather than it being "if we hear nothing we assume its correct".


It has to be done this way for certain orders. For fully unbundled suppliers like Sky, Talk Talk and partners, Openreach don't know the number assigned to a line; or for where someone has moved/passed away and the old line left active. It may also be impractical to get another one installed, especially if another copper run is required or there is no capacity at the cabinet.

As Openreach don't manage numbering for some networks, there is no reason they should share it (or would) as the only thing important is the circuit reference. I don't see those customers ringing their supplier to get this to then give to the new provider to request it.

This will change when numbers are a thing of the past (attached to the line) so it is likely all circuits will be migrated without a number, because, the line won't have one.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 18-Feb-20 09:43:29
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Surely each physical line has an idenitification number? How do you tell which one is which otherwise?

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User spectator
(member) Tue 18-Feb-20 10:05:45
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps something like the account/circuit number of the losing ISP (which is only known to the customer) should be provided to the gaining ISP when the order is placed. When the cease is sent to the losing ISP they they have an additional crosscheck reference to match against.

In this case, the person ordering from Plusnet wouldn't know the Origin account number and so it would ring alarm bells at Origin.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 18-Feb-20 12:22:34
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: spectator] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by spectator:
In this case, the person ordering from Plusnet wouldn't know the Origin account number and so it would ring alarm bells at Origin.


Except the current process would have worked had Origin sent the letter they should have out..

So the your idea would have made no difference.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Feb-20 20:09:24
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
It may have been the case that the person ordering put in the post code and a drop down list appeared but they highlighted the wrong one.

I've, initially, done that in the past but realised my mistake and gone back and changed to the correct address.

As plenty of people point out that they are dyslexic maybe the person ordering had dyscalculia.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Mon 24-Feb-20 12:25:47
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Ok quick update.

Service was resumed Friday Morning. Total down time 11 days.

Asked plusnet & origin for full explanations to resolve my complain against both.

Origin responded within a day with following:

have investigated your complaint in full, I can see that:
10/02/2020:- Plusnet slammed the line. Their reason given was genuine error and they released the line back to us after they were unable to contact their customer that triggered the order.
In regards to not being informed in advance this is our fault
1, The notification did not hit our front line manual systems in time for us to directly make you aware of it
2, The automatic customer notification run by automation was not triggered to advise you in time so you could contact us to make us aware of the issue in time
This failure is still under investigation internally at this time to discover how it occurred and to ensure it does not happen again.
Practical action, the service has been restored confirmed by yourself and Jag is currently working on having the landline number restored and has provided an eta of 24 working hours.

Financial reward, I'm afraid I cannot offer your suggested £8.00 per day. I can offer one month worth of service £28.48 worth of credit to the account for the 11 days without.

In reference to additional mobile data used in this time if you can supply receipts for the data used I can investigate financial reimbursement for this up to £25.00

Like any growing business, one of our greatest assets is our reputation. The honest opinions of our customers help us to learn from our mistakes and improve on the service we currently provide.
We recognise in this instance that Origin Broadband has failed to meet the expectations of the customer.

We apologise for this and have taken on-board all the information you have given us to better influence our procedures in the future.


As responses go it was quick, honest and comprehensive. Feel the compensation is a little shy of what I hoped as I needed to get money back for router I had to buy. Also there is some intangibles that are hard is to work out like us having to use our own data which is now running very low that hasn't cost extra as such but meant an adjustment..

Anyway Origins response seemed reasonable for sure.. I am expecting Plusnet to hide for a bit now rather than respond but we will see..

Thanks again all for listening over so many posts!
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Mon 24-Feb-20 15:24:10
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
I'm pleased to read that you're back with your original ISP.

Why does Origin keeping using the word "slammed"? Surely Plusnet were acting in good faith in taking over the line although I feel they should have released it quicker than they did once they were made aware of the problem. The blame has to fall entirely on Origin for failing to notify you that your line was being moved, something they admit to but seem to imply the fault lies with Plusnet rather than themselves. A shame that Origin don't subscribe to the OFCOM compensation scheme, perhaps they have a history of too many similar errors to afford to do so.
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Mon 24-Feb-20 15:43:43
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me! *DELETED* *DELETED*


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by bounderboy
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Mon 24-Feb-20 18:26:49
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Ok quick update.

Service was resumed Friday Morning. Total down time 11 days.

Asked plusnet & origin for full explanations to resolve my complain against both.

Origin responded within a day with following:

1, The notification did not hit our front line manual systems in time for us to directly make you aware of it
2, The automatic customer notification run by automation was not triggered to advise you in time so you could contact us to make us aware of the issue in time


Glad to hear you are back online @bounderboy smile

Hopefully they will inform you of the results of their investigation soon.
.
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Mon 24-Feb-20 18:47:16
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
P.S. They mentioned "'in time" 3 times in two sentences.

I wonder what date they received that notification that "run by" both their automated system and their manual system, so they could not contact you " in time "?

Edited by mrmarktigger (Mon 24-Feb-20 18:52:20)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Tue 25-Feb-20 15:17:38
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
It is all very odd for sure.. and probably unfortunate. I have asked origin to increase their offer

- 1mths Line rental credit - half of that was out of service!
- £50 compensation

Otherwise, otherwise I will push through ombudsman and take up a new line elsewhere forthwith.

Which seems reasonable to me..
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Thu 27-Feb-20 11:49:20
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Is this a business line? If so then you may have suffered a loss.

I would suspect that all you are legally entitled to is compensation for time without a working telephone line and internet access.

As you were, by your own admission, without services for 15 days then 30 days credit seems fair.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 27-Feb-20 17:21:39
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Received resolution letter from Plusnet today and they offered £30 goodwill gesture. Which is really fair and I have accepted graciously as full and final resolution.

And for fairness the Complaints team at Plusnet were great throughout - I had a personal contact who I could phone and they always backed up with an email to let me know an alternative contact when they were out of the office. So fair play to Plusnet.

Origin less so at the moment
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Tue 03-Mar-20 21:17:13
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Had restitution from Origin that I accepted for £25 cheque + £60 credit on bill..

So all sorted - hope this thread helps someone else.

Thanks all for the support through the fraught period - it was much appreciated..
Standard User fredfox
(experienced) Wed 04-Mar-20 08:32:48
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Well handle by you - hat off smile
I'd like to think I would have handle it as well, but I have my doubts wink

Pipex
Nildram
UKFSN
Be *
Xilo / Uno
Now -> Zen and BT

Fibre is here ! FTTP smile
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Fri 06-Mar-20 21:04:25
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: fredfox] [link to this post]
 
Well i am saying that - nothing arrived yet laugh
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 12-Mar-20 13:23:40
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Well i am saying that - nothing arrived yet laugh


Still nothing received from either company.. Chased today.. doesn't seem the angst is over just yet!
Standard User mrmarktigger
(member) Thu 12-Mar-20 19:28:09
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Still nothing received from either company.. Chased today.. doesn't seem the angst is over just yet!


That's shocking news! I hope they pay you out soon.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Thu 12-Mar-20 19:33:50)

Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Mon 16-Mar-20 13:54:35
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: mrmarktigger] [link to this post]
 
Chased Origin and to be fair they got straight back and said it had been posted day before. and true to their word it has arrived and been banks..

Plusnet still nothing yet. They are looking into where the delay is.. yawn.. I am not giving up though!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 16-Mar-20 14:13:39
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bounderboy:
Plusnet still nothing yet. They are looking into where the delay is.. yawn.. I am not giving up though!
It's in their auto-delay system wink.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User bounderboy
(learned) Thu 26-Mar-20 21:11:53
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well thought you were all due an update after persevering with this thread.

Origin have paid up.. Banked the cheque and hopefully credit will be added.

Received cheque today from Plusnet - however they to spelt my name incorrectly on the cheque. my name is Robert... it's not a hard name to spell - wonder how mistakes happen!
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 26-Mar-20 23:14:30
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
It's almost certain the bank will accept it. Give it a try. I suggest at a bank, preferably your own though. (Bank, not necessarily branch). Not the post office or some other bank/building society.

How bad is the mis-spelling? If it's an obvious typo there should be no problem. If it could be a valid name, see above.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 04-Apr-20 16:55:24
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It's almost certain the bank will accept it. Give it a try. I suggest at a bank, preferably your own though. (Bank, not necessarily branch). Not the post office or some other bank/building society.

In these times see if you can pay in via your app. Mine scans cheques, but I've not had to use it. Most branches are closed around here.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User bounderboy
(regular) Fri 19-Jun-20 22:04:20
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Just to update this thread I am moving to Vodafone Business Broadband and the date is set for the 25th June (next week)..

So far no communication from Origin to say that the line has been requested to be taken over.. interesting times :-|
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 20-Jun-20 00:58:25
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
How did you get on with the cheque's mis-spelt name?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connection - Three B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up. 1+ 8 Pro max 80Mbps down, 24Mbps up.
=========================
To argue with a mindless bigot is foolish.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 24-Jun-20 22:25:47
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: bounderboy] [link to this post]
 
Interesting thread and glad you've almost got everything resolved bounderboy eg with the cheque spelling.

As usual lots of great feedback and help on these forums and I get to hear of issues I never knew could exist. Plus ways of how to remedy them.

Talking about not knowing about things that exist, this is the first time I've heard of the ISP Origin. I've heard about Origin in the gaming world but not when it comes to broadband etc. Something else I'll take the time to check out.
Standard User bounderboy
(regular) Thu 25-Jun-20 22:17:18
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Re: Plusnet Slammed me!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
How did you get on with the cheque's mis-spelt name?


Yeah we shoved in Halifax app and it went through no problem so all good thank you..

Switched to Vodafone today ... fingers crossed ,,,, never received any comms from Origin to say sorry to see you go..... so they didn't learn anything it seems lol
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