I think worst case here is that someone did it maliciously and gave false details - that could mean PlusNet will really struggle to find a possibly fictional person to confirm it with. You would think if you can prove it is your address and line that would be enough to cancel the other order and release the line but I don't know the internal processes.

Have plusnet agreed to provide you a temporary service in the meantime whilst they do their investigation?

Edited by ian72 (Wed 12-Feb-20 15:23:29)

In reply to a post by ian72:

I think worst case here is that someone did it maliciously and gave false details - that could mean PlusNet will really struggle to find a possibly fictional person to confirm it with. You would think if you can prove it is your address and line that would be enough to cancel the other order and release the line but I don't know the internal processes.

Have plusnet agreed to provide you a temporary service in the meantime whilst they do their investigation?

I would like to think it isn't Malicious but as you say the worst case and unlikely.

I have said to Plusnet if they need ID, Bills anything to prove i am resident and owner of the property I am happy to supply it. Also told them the phone number of the new line which I couldn't possibly know without having physical access.

I mentioned to them about giving me temporary access but they said Origin would have to sort that out.. Which is ridiculous and stupid of course and I don't think she understood how they might be able to do that.. I just need a login and password I reckon!..

In reply to a post by bounderboy:

Not sure if this is interesting but heard from Origin; they have had no more contact from Plusnet. And suggested I poke them if I can.

Are Origin directly speaking with Plusnet or are they going through Openreach? It may be impossible to find out with any certainty.

Plusnet can't keep the line. If Origin have placed a migration back to them, it'll follow the standard Ofcom mandated transfer process and this will be with at least 10 working days between being placed and completion. Plusnet (themselves) don't have the ability to allow this to happen earlier on a standard migration.

You can check if an order is in progress at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and looking for a line at the bottom showing open orders for x date knowing it has been placed as such, especially if around 2 weeks from when you first raised with them.

For transfers that are done in error, there is an erroneous transfer process but depending on the old/new technology/network, often this is just a normal order as above and a case of waiting.

Whilst the "new" (non-MAC) system works well, there is a lot of reliance on the old provider ensuring that notices are sent. When they are not, situations like this occur. This was one of the original concerns that was raised in the consultation when Ofcom suggested the GPL process.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Your calming lovely voice over reason is so reassuring.

Are Origin directly speaking with Plusnet or are they going through Openreach? It may be impossible to find out with any certainty.

I am not sure to be honest and will ask Origin later.. Just had quite fair but firm talk with Plusnet and they seemed to infer they would only consult with Openreach and only when they conclude their investigation on where the problem occurred. This is all rests on speaking with the customer and until that happens nothing can be done.

Plusnet can't keep the line. If Origin have placed a migration back to them, it'll follow the standard Ofcom mandated transfer process and this will be with at least 10 working days between being placed and completion. Plusnet (themselves) don't have the ability to allow this to happen earlier on a standard migration.

You can check if an order is in progress at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and looking for a line at the bottom showing open orders for x date knowing it has been placed as such, especially if around 2 weeks from when you first raised with them.

I have a date of the 25th Feb which is 14 days from the initial problem. I was told this was worst case scenario but had to put it in there if nothing else works. Which makes sense. What plusnet are stopping is the Urgent Transfer back - if this exists - I was told by Plusnet and Origin that something like this exists and could be done in 24-48hrs if all parties are in sync.

For transfers that are done in error, there is an erroneous transfer process but depending on the old/new technology/network, often this is just a normal order as above and a case of waiting.

Perhaps this is the Urgent Transfer - sorry can't remember exact wording!


I probably just need to settle down for the long haul but just feel I am waiting totally unnecessarily for someone who filled out a form wrong somewhere to answer a phone and say sorry yes that is right!..

I assume in a few days time I will receive a letter addressed to the New Plusnet Customer saying sorry you are leaving us as per Ofcom ruling so I will know who it is then! To give them 10 days notice before 25th.. That will be interesting... something to look forward to...

In reply to a post by bounderboy:

It is in PlusNets rights to keep hold of the line until they understand where the problem has happened. There is no way to pressure them to release the line quicker - well not officially anyway - or any timescale for doing so. Lady I spoke to seemed unconcerned about Plusnets details being given out by Origin - to be honest I would feel even more helpless if they hadn't/couldn't or wouldn't...

Actually that's not the case. While one may argue that PlusNet acted in good faith, they did so without valid legal authorization to do so. Only the legal owner of the line (aka yourself) is able to do that. The fact that Origin failed to notify you is irrelevant to the fact that PlusNet did not have legal authorization to take over your line.

Happened to my brother just before Christmas, though TalkTalk did notify him. However PlusNet then just resubmitted the order for a second time. However the customer trying to take over his line in this case was known, as someone had moved into another property in his courtyard and was using the wrong address (I figure you have to be pretty dumb not to know the address you have just spend half a million on).

Anyway the mistake PlusNet made was my brother is a salaried Judge (as opposed to a fee paid aka zero hours one). They where made plainly aware that if they attempted to take over his line again they would find themselves in court.

The Ofcom procedures are an attempt to keep things out of court because that is simpler for all around. However by persisting in refusing to accept their mistake and release the line back to it's rightful owner PlusNet are committing fraud (they now know the information is wrong so have no defence about not known the information was wrong), and you have suffered a loss (fraud does not require someone to gain just someone to loose out).

I would demand of PlusNet the release of the line, and compensation, with a temporary service in the meantime. If they won't then call the police and tell them you believe someone is doing it maliciously. I would be tempted to issue a letter before action as well.

In reply to a post by bounderboy:

I have a date of the 25th Feb which is 14 days from the initial problem. I was told this was worst case scenario but had to put it in there if nothing else works. Which makes sense. What plusnet are stopping is the Urgent Transfer back - if this exists - I was told by Plusnet and Origin that something like this exists and could be done in 24-48hrs if all parties are in sync.

Perhaps this is the Urgent Transfer - sorry can't remember exact wording!

Very much the same thing.

I probably just need to settle down for the long haul but just feel I am waiting totally unnecessarily for someone who filled out a form wrong somewhere to answer a phone and say sorry yes that is right!..

Without knowing every intricate detail from both ends, that is probably best. Although even if they did that, I wouldn't expect the way it is being dealt with to be handled any different, especially if there are system constraints in the middle (i.e Openreach - a non-fault party).

I assume in a few days time I will receive a letter addressed to the New Plusnet Customer saying sorry you are leaving us as per Ofcom ruling so I will know who it is then! To give them 10 days notice before 25th..

They may send via another method entirely, or potentially to a "bill to" address if Plusnet allow different service and billing addresses.

Matt

Edited by uno (Wed 12-Feb-20 17:31:26)

PlusNet are committing fraud

I think if you were to ask your brother about this, you would find the worst offence (if any) Plusnet could be accused of would be a tort. Not fraud as you have (boringly) claimed several times in the thread.

On the subject of incorrect words, I suggest you also look up the meaning of "loose", which you have used many times. It is nothing at all to do with the verb "to lose". It is an adjective, frequently used in association with the noun "screw".

Sorry, but the customer doesn�t own the phone line, they merely rent / lease the right to use it. So, in this instance there would be no chance of any legal action against Plusnet.

As I said above you might have some recourse with Origin with regards to not upholding the service you both agreed to be contracted to (providing you were still in contract upon losing the service).

Unfortunately a consequence of making switching easier means things like this are going to happen. You�d hope that companies would work together in these instances, but some companies are poorer than others. In the utilities industry where I provide services for you find the equivalent issue to this (called erroneous transfers) and most of the big companies have internally facing direct contract numbers to resolve these issues swiftly. Although at least for utilities you don�t end up with no service in this instance.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Although at least for utilities you don�t end up with no service in this instance.

Thanks for the reply. I assume I am still in contract with Origin if I haven't given notice to leave even though the fixed term has expired? - what sort of recourse could I have - I assume I don't have a tight SLA at all.... ?

I�d be demanding at least 3 months free service on top of ensuring they don�t charge you for the time you�ve been without service. It�s the least I�d expect for such a mess which would have been avoided if they had followed the required regulated process. Although if you are out of contract they�ll probably just give you the run around and shrug their shoulders and say computer says no. So it�ll need to be complain time.

From a utilities point of view you�d get £30 for an erroneous transfer not agreed within 20 days from both suppliers, £30 if the supplier doesn�t send out 20 day letter and £30 if you are not re-registered within 21 days. So potentially £120, and in these cases you�d still be getting gas and/or electric flowing out the wall

Edited by gary333 (Wed 12-Feb-20 22:45:58)