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Standard User canalwaters
(newbie) Sat 23-Jul-11 10:43:27
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Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[link to this post]
 
I always turn my Super Hub off when I'm not using it. Is there any advantage in leaving it on all the time?
Standard User saturn_uranus
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 23-Jul-11 10:56:12
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: canalwaters] [link to this post]
 
It's more likely to catch fire if you leave it on which will give you the opportunity to replace it with a more accomplished device.

Seriously though, whichever you feel happier with. FWIW I find these kind of devices are more likely to fail if switched on/off regularly than if left on constantly. For that reason most of my kit stays on.

_______
Virgin media 50Mb formerly be* Pro

http://www.speedtest.net/result/768833128.png
Standard User john2007
(legend) Sat 23-Jul-11 14:26:16
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: saturn_uranus] [link to this post]
 
I switch my router off overnight (not a superhub though as I'm not with Virgin). People do sort of assume that switching on/off is more likely to make kit fail. I wonder if that assumption is correct for modern electronics. It may just be a memory throwback to when electronic devices had thermionic valves .


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Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 23-Jul-11 15:06:37
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: canalwaters] [link to this post]
 
Mine's on 24x7 partly because I have a VOIP phone. The savings from using VOIP rather than VM for telephony considerably outweigh any saving from turning it on and off.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 23-Jul-11 15:45:22
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
I switch my router off overnight (not a superhub though as I'm not with Virgin). People do sort of assume that switching on/off is more likely to make kit fail. I wonder if that assumption is correct for modern electronics. It may just be a memory throwback to when electronic devices had thermionic valves .

In my own experience switching them on and off a router increases chances of it's config getting corrupted (so it needs to be reconfigured), so by turning it off every night you might be increasing the chance of this happening by 100 times or so.

One of my friends turns his router off at night to save electricity and is on his 5th one in 3 years as they keep mysteriously failing, but then again he does buy belkin and netgear so that might also be something to do with it.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User john2007
(legend) Sun 24-Jul-11 14:45:13
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I have never had any problems with the secondhand Netgear DG834Gv3 I've been using for years.

eta: secondhand

Edited by john2007 (Sun 24-Jul-11 14:46:17)

Standard User ess1
(regular) Mon 25-Jul-11 08:54:10
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
I was getting low readings on my superhub and unable to log on to the hub.
VM advised me to turn off my hub for 10 seconds as I had had it continuosly running for 74 days.

Speed now 50.xx MB and now able to access hub.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Jul-11 09:54:19
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ess1] [link to this post]
 
That's because the Superhub firmware is riddled with bugs.
Standard User eckiedoo
(newbie) Mon 25-Jul-11 11:37:28
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: kwikbreaks] [link to this post]
 
Although modern electronic equipment seldom contains thermionic valves (or tubes across the Atlantic) which were prone particularly to their (cathode) heaters burning out similar to typical tungsten lamps, the majority has Switching Power Supply units built in, or in the lighter-weight external, non-transformer, mains adaptors.

When the device is switched on manually by the user, the working DC Voltage level is achieved by switching the 240 V Mains supply on and off rapidly (many times per cycle), almost continuously for varying periods, so that the DC Voltage on the load supply rises to then hovers around the required working level.

Also the User Swich-On can be at the rhe peak of the mains wave-form at 1.414 times the nominal 240 V RMS (= about 340 V; and the mains supply in our area has been as high as 260 V RMS so almost 370 V instantaneous), or could be at about 0 V (ideally) as the mains waveform transits between the positive and negative peaks of the sinusoidal waveform. Or at any voltage in between, following the sinusoidal waveform.

So there can be quite a lot of electrical "noise" generated at varying values and frequencies.

This noise could simply "swamp" some of the settings; or even on very exceptional occasions, generate apparent instructions etc.

At an extreme, the noise could actually "burn out" or physically destroy the semi-conductor circuits.


So electrically/electronically it is generally better to leave the devices switched on.


However, it is occasionally necessary to swich them off for say about a minute, so that a clean start is made on the settings or even to update them.

Some of you may be aware of having to do this with Sky Boxes and the like; or defragging a hard disk etc. Defragging can physically harm the typical HDD, so should not be done very often; but is recommended on a periodic basis.


On the saving of electricity aspect, all of the power "used" by the devices ends up as heat; and as generally some degree of home-space heationg is required in the UK throughout the year, theoretically the direct heating-only use of electricity and/or gas etc, will be reduced.

And this device-sourced heat will effectively been recycled, ie used twice, firstly in its intended use for computing etc; and secondly for house-warming.

Where-as the direct heating-only consumption for central-heating will have only been used once.

Away back over half-a-century, we heated our electronic research labs by switching the equipment under test ON "first thing", as the central heating system was unable to bring the ambient temperature up to a reasonable level - so we both tested the equipment and created comfortable working conditions from the single source and "recycled" the enrgy, to use today's terminology.


As reported by another forum member, I wonder how much energy etc was taken up by scrapping four devices; and now using a fifth, apparently caused by frequent user-switching to save small amounts of energy?

And were any of the four failed devices stripped down and recycled in any way?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Jul-11 11:45:24
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
But a device that is never switched on will have a much longer lifespan...

To be honest, if sensible then either way is fine

1. Don't just switch on/off a router everytime you need internet access
2. Yes fine to switch off electrical hardware when away from the house for a day or more.
3. Any electrical hardware that gets warm, keep it out of direct sunlight in the summer, and ensure they have ventilation

BTW biggest failure point on Sky boxes is the capacitors on the PSU. They seem to have a low life expectancy and replacing with better grade components improves them.

BTW 2, UK mains has not had a nominal value of 240V RMS for some years, the specification is now 230V bringing us closer to the common EU value

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User eckiedoo
(newbie) Mon 25-Jul-11 12:20:00
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Afternoon Andrew

Agreed the "Nominal Value" is 230 Volts; but I have a monitor running continually, at this instant it is reading 246.4 V, generally hovering around 246 V toady; and although not "calibrated", has been informally compared with others for some assurance of its accuracy.

It is very rare for it to go below 240 V; and in winter is generally around 250 V, rising close to 260 V.

Initially after getting the meter, I was surprised how frequently and almost constantly the reading was decidedly "high" - but I am now accustomed to it.

The nearest Power Station is about 15 miles away, whilst many of the houses locally were built as "all-electric", so tending to have higher electrical loadings with therefore greater inherent cable losses, than mixed-fuel houses.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Jul-11 14:11:30
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
You have replied to the wrong post. Anybody viewing this board in threaded mode will probably be mightily puzzled by your post which has absolutely no relevance to mine.
Standard User eckiedoo
(newbie) Mon 25-Jul-11 14:50:25
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: kwikbreaks] [link to this post]
 
Take a look at Andrew's post, last paragraph/sentence, immediately preceding mine.

Extract-
"
BTW 2, UK mains has not had a nominal value of 240V RMS for some years, the specification is now 230V bringing us closer to the common EU value
"

In fact although the EU Nominal Voltage is 230 V, it has a tolerance of -6% +10% to allow the UK Generating System to continue to run at 240 V, the design voltage for the UK system.

The lower tolerance of -6% is to include the 220 V systems of several other European countries.

So equipment designed to run centred on 230 V, would be put under a constant additional strain when used in the UK.

Then add in my observed voltages approaching 260 V ... .

No wonder equipment fails prematurely.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Jul-11 14:57:45
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
... and it still has nothing to do with the superhub requiring a reboot because it has locked up which it what I replied to with the comment about buggy firmware and which branch of the topic all your info about mains voltages etc. is now attached to.
Standard User eckiedoo
(newbie) Mon 25-Jul-11 16:39:05
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: kwikbreaks] [link to this post]
 
My apologies,

I thought I had attached it to the relevant thread.


Possibly Andrew can move it to the correct thread?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Jul-11 16:40:05
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: kwikbreaks] [link to this post]
 
If someone is convinced the power supply being over voltage by 4 or 5 volts from spec will induce errors in a CPU then I guess that is what they believe.

Myself I am more willing to believe, that things like stale NAT sessions, too little memory and manufacturing defects or the use of sub standard (i.e. cheaper components) lead to most of the problems.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Jul-11 16:58:44
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
It's on the correct thread but you didn't reply to the correct post.

Unlike most boards which just have a series of posts in chronological order and if you are replying to a post several back from the last you quote the part you are replying to this board also supports threaded mode and you just click reply on the post you want to respond to.

As it happens this thread is in a mess anyway so it really doesn't matter but with some threads which branch off into several sub-threads just tacking a post on the end can cause considerable confusion.
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Jul-11 17:03:49
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In the case of the Superhub most of the problems are due to badly coded firmware causing the wretched thing to hang or the gui to become unresponsive or the WiFi to refuse connections or any one of the hundreds of other complaints the thing attracts.

The installers just bunging it on the 10v 1A psu which the modem it is replacing had doesn't help either as it needs a 12v 1.5A PSU.

All of which is way way off the original topic of whether or not the things should be turned off overnight or not.
Standard User eckiedoo
(newbie) Mon 25-Jul-11 19:31:15
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: kwikbreaks] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for the explanation.

I have extensive experience of others in the genealogical field particularly - but relatively little on this type of structure and/or presentation; and on this site particularly, although extensive, extended experience in the electrical, electronic and computing fields.
Standard User JimKirk363
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Jul-11 03:12:26
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: saturn_uranus] [link to this post]
 
there is a very very low chance of it catching fire, proberbly more chance of ur freezer or washing machine catching fire.

Athlon 64 6000+ AM2 X2, ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe 570 NForce Mainboard, 4GB DDR 2 XMS2 800Mhz Cosair Ram, 6054.81GB Hard Disk Space, 1GB ATI 4670 HD PCI-E 16x Graphics, 850watt PSU.

Ex AOL Dialup 56k Customer....
Ex Freedom2Surf 512k and Ex Eclipse Internet 2mb Customer.

Virgin Media 50mb Cable

Virgin Media R EVIL!!!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/932560190.png
Standard User JimKirk363
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Jul-11 03:13:52
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
i have never once in all the years ive been dealing in IT which is 14 years found a router that suddenly corrupts settings just because its powered off and back on again.

They are designed to hold their settings thats the whole point of them.

Athlon 64 6000+ AM2 X2, ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe 570 NForce Mainboard, 4GB DDR 2 XMS2 800Mhz Cosair Ram, 6054.81GB Hard Disk Space, 1GB ATI 4670 HD PCI-E 16x Graphics, 850watt PSU.

Ex AOL Dialup 56k Customer....
Ex Freedom2Surf 512k and Ex Eclipse Internet 2mb Customer.

Virgin Media 50mb Cable

Virgin Media R EVIL!!!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/932560190.png
Standard User kwikbreaks
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Jul-11 10:13:41
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JimKirk363] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JimKirk363:
i have never once in all the years ive been dealing in IT which is 14 years found a router that suddenly corrupts settings just because its powered off and back on again.
The wondrous Superhub is quite capable of resetting to defaults all by itself even without being power cycled. Check the VM community board for scores of complaints about exactly that.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Sun 31-Jul-11 17:07:09
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
In reply to a post by john2007:
I switch my router off overnight (not a superhub though as I'm not with Virgin). People do sort of assume that switching on/off is more likely to make kit fail. I wonder if that assumption is correct for modern electronics. It may just be a memory throwback to when electronic devices had thermionic valves .

In my own experience switching them on and off a router increases chances of it's config getting corrupted (so it needs to be reconfigured), so by turning it off every night you might be increasing the chance of this happening by 100 times or so.

One of my friends turns his router off at night to save electricity and is on his 5th one in 3 years as they keep mysteriously failing, but then again he does buy belkin and netgear so that might also be something to do with it.


It's absolutely correct, hardware failures are by far more likely at power on time.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Fri 22-May-15 09:54:23
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but it relates to my own problem.

I am suffering regular problems using my Virgin Media Superhub where, although it indicates that I am "connected", I sometimes get the message "no internet connection". This occurs on both my own and my wife's laptops at the same time, so that would suggest a problem with the router or further down the line.

It can usually be resolved by turning off wireless (F8), then on again, but I feel this shouldn't be necessary.

When I speak to Virgin Media, the stock answer is to turn off the router, wait for two minutes and then turn it back on again. This is in direct contradiction to most comments on this thread, and I tend not to believe them (Virgin).

Does anyone else have this problem? What would you expect Virgin to do about it?
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 22-May-15 11:12:04
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
If you constantly have to turn it off and on, there is a fault somewhere. It may resolve it - but if you are persistently doing it, you're just masking a fault. Most people never turn their routers off.
Standard User mlmclaren
(experienced) Fri 22-May-15 12:20:52
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Request a new hub or an engineer visit...

Plusnet Unlimited 21CN 4200/800 @ 4.2Km > TP-Link TD-W8968v3 - BQM IPv4
Plusnet Fibre Extra 66000/20000 @ 450m > HG612 (Unlocked) > Linksys LRT224 - BQM IPv4
Sky Unlimited @ 4.2Km > Sky Hub v2
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Fri 22-May-15 14:02:22
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
Thank you both. I suspected as much.
I'll record the problems as they occur over the next week or so, then get back to them and suggest they are talking a load of codswallop!
Standard User AAuser27
(member) Sat 23-May-15 02:46:59
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: canalwaters] [link to this post]
 
No advantage really it uses so little power over a year. You can however get full speed back unlike ADSL as Cable either syncs or it dosen't
Standard User Eeeps
(newbie) Sat 23-May-15 10:23:06
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
If you constantly have to turn it off and on, there is a fault somewhere. It may resolve it - but if you are persistently doing it, you're just masking a fault. Most people never turn their routers off.


I have the same problem and have finally given up on the SH and bought my own AC router. I'll be setting this up this weekend.

When this happens it is on wireless only (both 2.4 and 5 GHz bands) and wired continues to work ok.

I've had the wireless lockup when trying to transfer large files to my NAS.

In relation to the original thread about switching on / off this explanation might help.

Thinking about switch on, this is not instantaneous. The supply to the electronics will rise from 0 volts to the working voltage (typically 5 or 3.3 volts). This may take 10's of ms.

For a period of time the voltage is in an intermediate state and for logic circuits this is not a normal design condition. This can result in current and power stresses that do not occur in normal operation.

The best way to reset the SH is via the menu item on the web interface (if accessible!). Power remains on during this.

Ian
Standard User mpellatt
(member) Sun 24-May-15 09:34:44
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
Whilst an indeterminate logic condition on power-on is a possibility (which would be reset on a further power-cycle), the main risk at power-on is stresses from a brief inrush of energy. In the Old Days, this would be into the mains transformer as its magnetic field built up, and also charging up the smoothing capacitors. These days with switched-mode power supplies, it will just be the capacitor(s) charging up. I believe. My electronic design experience is now nearly 40 years old....
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-May-15 09:22:22
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Same model of wireless adapter in both laptops? Some wireless devices do things like drop connection now and then, the switching off and on for the wireless sounds like it may be this.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Mon 25-May-15 10:19:05
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.
They are both Toshibas, so it's possible. I'll have a look.
Assuming that is the cause, how can I overcome it, other than buying new laptops of course?!
Standard User sobranie
(experienced) Mon 25-May-15 10:43:02
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
Some of you may be aware of having to do this with Sky Boxes and the like; or defragging a hard disk etc. Defragging can physically harm the typical HDD, so should not be done very often; but is recommended on a periodic basis.


Defragging HDD harmful, new one on me but always willing to learn ....... can you elaborate please?
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Mon 25-May-15 11:40:46
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: sobranie] [link to this post]
 
Traditional HDDs consisting of continually rotating discs of magnetic material and "pick-up" heads moving out and in radially to access the specific locations of widely scattered data, leads to various forms of wear and microscopic damage.

Cumulatively, this can lead to HDDs "wearing out".


Defragging/defragmenting requires relatively intensive movements of the heads, thus the rate of wear during such operations is significantly greater than in normal operations.

--------------------------

http://www.pctechguide.com/hard-disks/hard-disk-hard...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_platter

Note that the there are other heads below and moving in time with the obviously-visible top one, so all platters in that HDD are "at risk", although the data required may be on the top platter only.

Keep in mind that particularly once an HDD has been in use for some time, the data making up any one file is recorded in short segments, scattered almost anywhere on the platters; and that there are separate indexing areas on the platters giving the location of those segments.

HDDs are surprisingly complex devices.

---------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eMWG3fwiEU

Apart from the obvious rapid "flicking" of the head assembly, the platters/disc are rotating at around 7,000 revolutions per minute.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-May-15 12:16:41
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Find out if there are any driver updates and/or try disabling power save modes for the wireless adapter

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Mon 25-May-15 13:02:55
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: canalwaters] [link to this post]
 
I leave mine on all the time. Several reasons.
My mobile phone does not get a signal in the front of the house , my last phone had UMA which connected via WiFi. New phone does not so I have a VOIP line active on the mobile, which needs wifi.
I'm often ill and confined to bed, would not be able to pop downstairs to switch the superhub on and off so I can use my laptop upstairs.
We have a smart TV which should be getting updates via the wired cat5, which needs the router to be on when it does this at around 3am.
The more devices you have connected, the more you'll need to leave the rourter on for them.

Virgin Cable (100/6) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User sobranie
(experienced) Mon 25-May-15 14:04:36
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Thank you eckiedoo for your most excellent reply.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 25-May-15 15:59:21
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
I thought we were referring to the Superhub 2.

The SuperHub 1, when I used it was dreadful. The wireless often locked up, you would try to connect to the WiFi but it would fail - the only solution was a reboot.

If you set a custom SSID or custom setup - the SuperHub would routinely reset to factory settings and forget all of the settings entered. This was highly annoying.

WiFi range - lets not discuss.

I cannot believe VM have customers still using the SuperHub, frankly it is dreadful.
& I don't expect much from a router, I do not need any fancy features. The Sky Hub is a 2.4Ghz only device, not very advanced, but I would speak highly of it as it never crashes, works flawlessly etc.

HomeHub - likewise never had an issue.

I never tried the SuperHub 2 to see if that corrected issues?

Overall, the superhub cannot be left on 24/7 - it crashes too regularly for that. You'll end up rebooting it routinely. I think I had about 5 of them during my Virginmedia lifetime.

If I am honest that Superhub put me off Virginmedia for life. I would rather have a 2Mbps connection with 100% reliability, with a router that does not need touching than be forced onto a VM connection and deal with that again. The speed would not be worth it. Luckily I have FTTC on Sky and BT now smile

Had they provided me a router that worked flawlessly I am 99.9999% sure I would still be a virginmedia customer now.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 25-May-15 16:02:29)

Standard User AAuser27
(member) Mon 25-May-15 17:47:46
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
my SH2 is terrible as of late the range has shrunk and it barely covers the room I am in. Other routers do OK

I leave the SH2 on 24/7 as well as my mac (just sleep the display) as it's better for them. The SH2 is covered by VM anyway and the Mac is covered not only by apples 3 years care but also their 6 year warranty that very few people actually know about.

So dosen't bother me if I leave it on. As for electric. My whole house and all that I use uses less than £20 per month
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Tue 26-May-15 21:33:51
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Find out if there are any driver updates and/or try disabling power save modes for the wireless adapter


I find that there are no driver updates available.

However, it occurs to me that it is unlikely to be anything to do with our computers as the problem always occurs to both at the same time.
Unless they have some sort of strange means of communicating with each other (!), I'm sure it must be the router or possibly some problem further along the connection from Virgin.

Edited by JBR (Tue 26-May-15 21:34:59)

Standard User Bryer
(experienced) Wed 27-May-15 11:37:32
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Sounds almost like a REIN issue in the premises could be sending out a spike of electrical interference, which knocks out the wifi signal.

Something like a DVR box spooling up, Sky box getting a update, heck even the Samsung Tivo boxes causes a lot of static when they fire up to record something. Might be worth seeing what is clicking on in your house when the drop outs occur.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 13:57:08
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Bryer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bryer:
Sounds almost like a REIN issue in the premises could be sending out a spike of electrical interference, which knocks out the wifi signal.

Something like a DVR box spooling up, Sky box getting a update, heck even the Samsung Tivo boxes causes a lot of static when they fire up to record something. Might be worth seeing what is clicking on in your house when the drop outs occur.

Now that's an interesting idea.

We have a couple of DVD recorders, but no Sky or Tivo. I'll keep an eye out for that sort of thing in future. Then there's the fridge-freezer, of course. Could that also be responsible?

I Googled REIN (and SHINE) and found these phenomena interesting. No-one else has mentioned them before. Incidentally, we have no telephone line: we use VOIP.
Standard User Bryer
(experienced) Wed 27-May-15 17:45:52
Print Post

Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
In reply to a post by Bryer:
Sounds almost like a REIN issue in the premises could be sending out a spike of electrical interference, which knocks out the wifi signal.

Something like a DVR box spooling up, Sky box getting a update, heck even the Samsung Tivo boxes causes a lot of static when they fire up to record something. Might be worth seeing what is clicking on in your house when the drop outs occur.

Now that's an interesting idea.

We have a couple of DVD recorders, but no Sky or Tivo. I'll keep an eye out for that sort of thing in future. Then there's the fridge-freezer, of course. Could that also be responsible?

I Googled REIN (and SHINE) and found these phenomena interesting. No-one else has mentioned them before. Incidentally, we have no telephone line: we use VOIP.


Any electrical appliance could cause REIN.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 27-May-15 18:08:08
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Is it a Superhub 1 or 2?

EDIT: If SuperHub 1, I am willing to automatically rule out your PC, REIN etc and immediately point my finger at the Superhub. I personally had 100s of issues with every superhub I had (I had numerous). It is a terrible router.

It is ironic that it is named the Superhub as it caused me more issues than any device I ever used.

In my time I have used NETGEAR DG834G, 834GT, Sky's Netgear 934G, Skys Sagem Router, Both Sky Hubs, Apple Airport Express & Extreme, Netgear WNDR3700, Homehub 2,3,4 and 5, Belkin N900, Aruba Networks (multiple), DSR-250N, Speedtouch 585, WNR2000 and probably 10+ more devices. All of these devices were flawless, plug in - forget about them.

Interestingly Virgin originally gave me a modem and a WNR2000 device, this worked flawlessly and I would have uptimes of 200+ days with this setup.

They then replaced my perfect setup with the Superhub.
I had the following issues (and many more small niggles):
Everything would work fine then,
1) Devices would not connect at all over Wireless. The Network was visible but a connection was not possible.
2) Devices would show "limited or no connectivity" on wireless whilst wired worked fine
3) The Superhub would reset to factory settings on its own accord
4) The Superhub would become unresponsive entirely - both wired and wireless
5) The superhub would stop allocating IP addresses over DHCP, I would get 169 IP addresses. Setting a static IP would make it work
6) The router GUI would crash, it would be impossible to access the routers administration pages without a reboot
7) Wireless performance often dropped to sub 2Mbps speeds with multiple devices connected
8) The blue light would flash so brightly that it would blind me.

There were more issues but those are the largest ones.

All of the above issues required a reboot at least once a day. The replacements did not fix it. I left virginmedia as I lost a lot of respect for them after providing such a poor device.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 27-May-15 18:21:12)

Standard User JBR
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 18:21:09
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I believe it's a SH1.

(Although some people have suggested it's [SH1*!!)

Edited by JBR (Wed 27-May-15 18:23:33)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 27-May-15 18:22:15
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
Refer to my edited post above. Does it relate to you?
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 18:28:08
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Wow, you have had problems!

Thankfully, mine doesn't exhibit all of those; just the one of occasional 'no internet connection'.

I'll call them back in a few days and insist on a replacement or an engineer's visit (already suggested by the last person I spoke to).

If the problems persist, I could always buy my own wireless router if I wasn't so tight-fisted!
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 27-May-15 18:33:46
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
I demand a lot out of my routers, I have approximately 20 devices connecting. If there's an issue I find it. I also do not reboot ever - I have had over 6 months uptime with my Sky router in the past. I also have 4K streaming over my connection (via WiFI) which is highly demanding...

The only reboot is a powercut.

I got the Superhub in the early days when the Firmware was not "ironed out." At that point in time there was a lot of discussion in Virgins forums (which they incidentally removed) which discussed hardware flaws in the Superhub.

At the time it was agreed that no firmware upgrade would make the device work flawlessly.

It was virgins first "attempt" at integrating both a router and their modem into one device, they had previously just supplied third party bog standard devices (same as you could buy in PCWorld). It didn't go so well for them the new approach...

I personally believe that VM should have recalled all of the devices.
I have just checked my cupboard - I had 5 of these routers over the years.

I would strongly advise against getting another one... Try to get the Superhub 2, I've seen a few with an uptime over 1 month.

REIN - whilst possible, given my past hands-on experience with the superhub I just feel it is more likely to be that causing you grief. REIN would affect the connection instead of the WiFI surely?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 27-May-15 18:40:00)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-May-15 18:37:46
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Bryer] [link to this post]
 
Wi-Fi is at the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands and very unlikely to be affected by REIN particularly electrical appliance sources.

If noise is that bad I would expect there to be other symptons with electrical hardware in the home.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Wed 27-May-15 19:57:56
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I'll see if I can persuade them to give me an SH2, then.

I suppose that will depend on to whom I get to speak.
Standard User Bryer
(experienced) Thu 28-May-15 09:20:49
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
I'll see if I can persuade them to give me an SH2, then.

I suppose that will depend on to whom I get to speak.


They will charge you £20 for P&P. I had to replace my SH2 with a SH2AC recently as it started showing issues with wi-fi, but it was actually my power levels causing the issues as the line was at between 6-7 volts which fried the internals according to the engineer who I managed to get to pop in a lower them a bit. My Superhub 2ac has been on for 2 months non stop and it's had 0 issues.

IMHO the Superhub 2ac is on par with the Sky and HH in terms of reliability.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-May-15 10:01:57
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Bryer] [link to this post]
 
IMHO the Superhub 2ac is on par with the Sky and HH in terms of reliability.
Good to know!! That's how it should be.

The HH does "cheat" as it automatically reboots every 14 days - although who actually notices?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 28-May-15 10:02:15)

Standard User JBR
(newbie) Thu 28-May-15 11:46:58
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Bryer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bryer:
In reply to a post by JBR:
I'll see if I can persuade them to give me an SH2, then.

I suppose that will depend on to whom I get to speak.


They will charge you £20 for P&P.


I expect they will be sending an engineer anyway (no charge, presumably), as they suggested as much recently, so I might get an SH2 installed for free. I've already been given a £5 credit for all the trouble (it has been going on for some time), although I am definitely not out to get money from them; I simply want a reliable connection.

Btw, what's the difference between an SH2 and an SH2ac?
Standard User Bryer
(experienced) Thu 28-May-15 13:49:51
Print Post

Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
In reply to a post by Bryer:
In reply to a post by JBR:
I'll see if I can persuade them to give me an SH2, then.

I suppose that will depend on to whom I get to speak.


They will charge you £20 for P&P.


I expect they will be sending an engineer anyway (no charge, presumably), as they suggested as much recently, so I might get an SH2 installed for free. I've already been given a £5 credit for all the trouble (it has been going on for some time), although I am definitely not out to get money from them; I simply want a reliable connection.

Btw, what's the difference between an SH2 and an SH2ac?


The AC has a slightly improved wireless chipset inside, and depending on who you speak to, a slightly faster CPU to process requests. My connection went from 148Mbps to 162Mbps with the introduction of the SH2ac. Hardwired gigabit ethernet.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Thu 28-May-15 15:14:00
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Bryer] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

I can but try. Hopefully an SH2 or, better, an SH2ac.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Thu 04-Jun-15 10:26:27
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
The engineer came yesterday and assured me that the router is perfectly OK, but that the 'signal is low and needs balancing'. I don't understand all of this, but was told that some other engineers would sort it out in the green box on the street.

Well, things seem to be OK for now, but any sign of the problems re-occurring and I'll be asking for a SH2. Apparently, it would only cost me £5 for P&P.
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Fri 12-Jun-15 21:46:35
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
As the problems still persist, I phoned VM and insisted on a newer router. No quibble, and an SH2ac should be delivered a week tomorrow. P&P £5.99
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 12-Jun-15 21:53:43
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
People do sort of assume that switching on/off is more likely to make kit fail. I wonder if that assumption is correct for modern electronics. It may just be a memory throwback to when electronic devices had thermionic valves .
It's an old thread but I don't believe this for a minute. All my A/V kit (TV, Hifi etc) is on a timer and has been for over a decade. They get power cut at 2330, and don't get back until 0700 (weekends) or 1700 (weekday). I've never had a failure yet.

Switching a modem/router off overnight is fair enough but switching it on/off throughout the day as/when you use it seems pointless. It defeats one of the main advantages of the service which is the 'always on' feature. Waiting for a modem or router to establish a connection is like going back to the dark ages of dial-up.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Fri 12-Jun-15 21:55:21)

Standard User JBR
(newbie) Sun 21-Jun-15 16:28:07
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
I should explain that I prefer not to turn off my router as our VOIP telephone is connected to it and we need to be able to receive calls at all times.
Standard User AAuser27
(member) Sun 21-Jun-15 21:17:02
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: canalwaters] [link to this post]
 
mines been on 24/7 for years. You can turn it off al the time and get the same sync which is one of the benefits of cable for me. But in general it dosen't get hot and uses such a tiny amount of power per year I just leave it on.
Standard User ZenUserJP
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-15 16:06:58
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
I should explain that I prefer not to turn off my router as our VOIP telephone is connected to it and we need to be able to receive calls at all times.


Why did anyone bother with this thread. There have been a splurge of posts over May and some this month but the actual thread was started 4 years ago!
Standard User JBR
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-15 16:19:15
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: ZenUserJP] [link to this post]
 
I'm afraid I added my four penn'orth in May because I have a similar problem.

Sorry. I shall not add anything more.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 28-Jun-15 17:25:50
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
I'm afraid I added my four penn'orth in May because I have a similar problem.

Sorry. I shall not add anything more.
Ah, ignore him. He's just an annoyance who keeps on changing his username to avoid a ban.
Standard User ZenUserJP
(newbie) Sun 28-Jun-15 20:02:24
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: JBR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by JBR:
I'm afraid I added my four penn'orth in May because I have a similar problem.

Sorry. I shall not add anything more.


I only asked - that reason is perfectly acceptable.

Sorry Batboy, who are you and why are you talking about me?
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 29-Jun-15 07:42:45
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Ah, ignore him. He's just an annoyance who keeps on changing his username to avoid a ban.


Given the bragging about usage not hard to guess who.

EDIT:The part where the story of being a 71 year old USAF vet slipped as the chap mentioned working the night shift for Plusnet because no-one else would was a nice touch too.

Who do we know who worked for Plusnet and can't help themselves but mention how much data they use whenever feasible?

Edited by Ignitionnet (Mon 29-Jun-15 07:56:24)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 29-Jun-15 08:06:50
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Re: Super Hub - leave on 24/7 or turn off?


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
I know that "James Patterson" is the lead character in the Medal of Honor series of computer games http://medalofhonor.wikia.com/wiki/James_Patterson
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