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Iam being screwed over by SKY LLu - going from a 19Mb connection with BT & o2 to a whopping 3Mb connection with peak-time slowdown on SKY LLu SVBN Broadband Unlimited...
Iam thinking about moving to Virgin Cable , Iam a lite P2P user, can anyone tell me what speed Bit-torrent is restricted to during the peak hours of 10am-9pm..? is it 25kbps / 50kbps / 100kbps...?? just what is it? i tried contacting virgin but they could not give me an answer
any info would be great
thanks
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They can't give any definitive answer as the degree of P2P shaping depends on the overall load of your CMTS at the time in question. Judging by the state of large sections of the VM network since they introduced unlimited 100Mbps getting around the shaping must be easy - from stuff I've seen it may even be as simple as turning on encryption in the client or maybe use of a VPN. At some point they will have to fix it though or they'll lose too many customers to Infinity who are sick of the poor performance.
Edited by kwikbreaks (Thu 12-Apr-12 15:40:47)
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thanks for replies
I was toying with 30Mb package, anything else is not really affordable
on previous ISPs whre BT was restricted I could not get around it with encryption, doesnt that just encrypt the data and not the protocol? (so an ISP can still block the protocol) im not 100% sure on how it works so just speculating..
you can get by it using a paid proxy service but more cost...
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not the same with VPN its an tunnel connection every thing is routed threw it, P2P can be detected even if encryption is enabled just not every ISP has DPI hardware to detect it
VM have an FUP, they throttle between 4pm and midnight depending what the network is doing in your area, newsgroups get cut back a lot, not sure about P2P as seems largely unaffected last time i tried it, Virgin also have an STM as well (download to much you lose 50% of your bandwidth for 5hrs, but still unlimited downloading)
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thanks for the insight leexgx
whats latency like?
Edited by paulb100 (Thu 12-Apr-12 18:10:06)
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I think it varies per area.
My area appears to be a magnet for torrenters, when I last tried it on a weekend I think I got about 1meg/sec or so. I am on the 30mbit package although I dont think thats rleevant fo rthe p2p shaping. Bear in mind tho I rarely use torrents.
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Sky don't limit P2P or any other protocol for that matter meaing you may be on one of the congested exchanges listed on pulse.sky.com
Though would be interesting to know if you're syncing at 19Mbit with Sky?
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It varies per area, there is standard traffic management which applies to just any throughput, which is really generous and is available on the VM website.
But on top of that they do manage P2P and newsgroups, the current situation on that seems to be that it's only managed in areas that are seeing congestion, so it depends what postcode you're in.
Luckily in Norwich almost no one is using high tier VM packages which is maybe why we're last to be upgraded to 100mb, however it does mean really clean speeds I get 50mbit on the nose almost 100% of the time, and that applies to torrents uploading/downloading as well, seeing a torrent come in at 6+MB/sec is nice 
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i spoke to someone else whoon VM 50Mb and he says 24-7 his torrent speeds very from 0-200kb/s and not just 5-12 ?? put me right off - he says when he uses bit-torrent it restricts all other traffic too so he cant use web hardly while its running?? he says stops utorrent and its all back to normal
with sky I did have 18Mb sync but its gone all too cock when they switched my phone from WLR3 to MSAN (SVBN) - my broadband was already ported onto the MSAN previously for 6 weeks with no problem, after switching phone to MSAN there was noise and voices on the line and sync would drop on incoming calls but it was still 26db and 16-17Mb, so they sent someone to fix it, its AFTER this fix I now have NO PHONE AT ALL and my 18Mb /25db LA broadband has gone down to 3Mb/35db LA - sky dont seem to be doing anything about it either, when email them they usually reply within the hour or so all the time, now it took them over 24 hours too say "someone will contact you" , how? phone is off..i told them that, useless - the mobile no. they have is my partners and she is at work until late and cant answer phone at work
ive been to the exchange on way to town and there is no-one there and its all locked up (probably for the weekend)
so unless SKY fix the line im pretty much stuffed, i dont fancy risking VM if its P2P is applied 24-7 and works like that guy said - with my luck I would sign up and be just like that..or start happening when im out my 30 day satisfaction
Edited by paulb100 (Fri 13-Apr-12 14:48:12)
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It sounds like his router is flooded by P2P connections.
VM doesn't shape P2P 24/7.
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It sounds like his router is flooded by P2P connections.
VM doesn't shape P2P 24/7.
ACTUALLY I was thinking that it sounds like he hasnt got it set up right.. I dont mind downloading overnight.. but it would be nice to have some KB/s during peak in case I see something I want instantly..
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Also, if he saturates his upstream, it will slow down all Internet traffic.
I often see 500KB/s+ from VM peers during peak hours.
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if you upload faster then 150KB/s download speed can gets affected (from what i have seen on my connection)
just set the upload to 100KB/s or lower (also having the firewall options enabled on the Virgin Hub or Superhub can affect download speed or crash the modem when under p2p load, just untick them as the basic firewall works fine)
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Iam being screwed over by SKY LLu - going from a 19Mb connection with BT & o2 to a whopping 3Mb connection with peak-time slowdown on SKY LLu SVBN Broadband Unlimited...
Iam thinking about moving to Virgin Cable , Iam a lite P2P user, can anyone tell me what speed Bit-torrent is restricted to during the peak hours of 10am-9pm..? is it 25kbps / 50kbps / 100kbps...?? just what is it? i tried contacting virgin but they could not give me an answer
any info would be great
thanks
During the managed hours the downstream traffic goes into a 'bad boy pipe' along with all the rest of the P2P and Usenet traffic, this is allocated 25% of the downstream capacity in your area as a maximum, which is between 50Mb and 100Mb depending on the number of channels in use, 4 will give 50Mb, 6 gives 75Mb, and a full 8 leaves 100Mb for P2P/Usenet.
The more people that are using P2P and Usenet on your port the smaller your share will be and the slower your speeds will be.
In addition if non-P2P traffic is using over 75% of the bandwidth it takes priority and will edge out P2P/Usenet.
You will see full speeds from VM peers due to how VM operate the shaping, they tag traffic just after the entry points to their network, as VM peers don't go through the tagging hardware traffic from other VM peers isn't throttled.
This applies to upstream too, if it's to other VM connections it's fine, if it leaves the VM network it'll get pretty brutally throttled.
Edited by deleted (Sat 14-Apr-12 22:19:12)
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thanks for the insight leexgx
whats latency like?
Piece of string question, all depends on your local area. From what I can tell mine is 'average'.
PING www.bbc.net.uk (212.58.246.94): 32 data bytes
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=0 ttl=53 time=12.1 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=13.6 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=21.1 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=13.5 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=4 ttl=53 time=14.7 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=5 ttl=53 time=13.7 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=6 ttl=53 time=13.4 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=7 ttl=53 time=17.5 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=8 ttl=53 time=13.3 ms
40 bytes from 212.58.246.94: icmp_seq=9 ttl=53 time=14.4 ms
--- www.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 12.1/14.7/21.1 ms
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A different length piece of string..
Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.68] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=54
Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 9ms
The question is pointless as are any answers that will be given.
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thanks again
P.S. a piece of string is twice the distance from the middle to either end  (hehe sorry i couldnt resist it)
thanks for the insight into the P2P throttling, and its OK after midnight and right up until 5pm when its supposed to start? because ive heard otherwise?
cheers
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On cable you can see huge differences between areas. Each area comprises a few hundred modems. For example I could be doing fine but somebody a couple of streets away could be getting poor service. A lot of the gripes you'll see about STM and shaping are possibly simply congestion problems which VM will not fix or they'd have to drop the "unlimited" tag from their advertising.
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thanks again
P.S. a piece of string is twice the distance from the middle to either end (hehe sorry i couldnt resist it)
thanks for the insight into the P2P throttling, and its OK after midnight and right up until 5pm when its supposed to start? because ive heard otherwise?
cheers
No - unless they've changed something or there's been a software upgrade if it's the same downloads it'll stay throttled as it's already been tagged. Once downloads are started again they'll be fine.
The stuff that does the throttling only looks closely at enough packets to establish what each connection is, once it has done that it carries out the tagging action on P2P / Usenet. It continues to do this for the duration on that connection.
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I see - so if i restart the torrents after midnight they will be ok? does that work if your downloading a torrent just before 5pm and the download continues into and after 5pm it wont be throttled because the tag is not applied until the connection is established after 5pm
either way - its ok between midnight and 5pm yes? so if I download a torrent at 4pm i will get full speed
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where are you getting your figures from?
is it 5-12 now? It was last time I looked 10am-3pm and then 4-9pm
5pm-midnight for P2P management
what your on about is the periods you can download certain amounts before restriction in speeds kick in... thats on TOP of P2P management - you have to factor both in, Iam simply on about speeds on use of bit-torrent outisde of the P2P management times (5-12)
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Are you still getting peak time slowdown? Mine went away. I've got their fibre product on the way on the 25th
I had virgin around the Sheffield (around 2 years ago) area and also near Richmond close to London.
I left virgin near Richmond around 3 months ago.
Here are my experiences. It was the same in both locations.
Look at the traffic management here. http://www.virginmedia.com/images/STM_30Mb_above_800...
Say I am on the XL 30 mbps product. Say it is 6pm. Between 4pm and 9pm I have 3500 mb before my speed is reduced by 50% for 5 hours.
Anyway 6pm. I fire up a torrent. The torrent goes at 3 mb/s. Great!! No throttling!!
I keep downloading the torrent so I go over my 3500 mb allowance. Now my speed is throttled to 15 mbps.
At this stage my p2p is also throttled. Usually anywhere between 100 kb/s and the 50% reduced speed...
I only found throttling on p2p to occur once I had been restricted via the traffic management. E.g. if I downloaded less than the 3500 mb I wouldn't experience ANY throttling.
This was the same in both locations. It was like this 2 years ago in Sheffield and the same here a few months back..
Just a quick heads up. The super hub GUI constantly crashes. It's a nightmare. & if you are in an area with issues don't expect them to get solved anytime soon.
When it works - it's great. Hope I've helped!
Also remember you can always upgrade your package at a later date if needed
TO ADD: outside of the traffic management times, there were NO restrictions ever. I lived in student areas on both occasions where presumably p2p usage would be quite high also.
TO clarify. p2p was only slowed down ONCE I exceeded the allowances on that table.
Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 15-Apr-12 00:17:02)
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mine and its gone midnight now.
C:\>ping -n 10 bbc.co.uk
Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=34ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=242
Reply from 212.58.241.131: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=242
Ping statistics for 212.58.241.131:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 34ms, Average = 21ms
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aye thanks ukhardy07 - I see so it may only apply outside your usage limits... ive spoke too loads of people and they all say depends where you are, ive spoken to one guy who says P2P is throttled 24-7 - I wont ever download more than 2Gb during peak times (1-2Gb maybe 2 times per week during peak times - if I do have a massive download i dont mind at aall running it over night)
SKY - what happened was the peak time traffic became erratic, some nights it was good (not completely gone but almost) and other nights it was bad... but now they switched my phone from WLR3 to SVBN and when they did there was a crossed wire - they went to fix that and now I have no phone and 3Mb broadband (from 18Mb) for 5 days now...engineer requires access, line attenuation has shot up from 25db to 35db too... not happy - sky has just been a total nightmare for me (and many others) ..
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I don't think you'll be impressed by the super hub. Especially when you're having to turn it off at the wall to get it working. Otherwise I think you'll be happy.
The issues with sky are an absolute joke. I had just about had enough and then everything went normal again. I'm going to try and ride out this year on their fibre and if there's any more issues I'm gone
If virgin had been working perfectly for me I wouldn't have left. No way. Their on demand TV stuff is great too.
Something I liked about virgin. If uploading something on ADSL the broadband slows down to a crawl. On virgin, if uploading something the internet was still totally usable. I miss that!
Best of luck!
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aye see what happens - it says on MySky they have to get me 7Mb or I can leave before 21st May - if he fixes the line and attenuation is back to 26db then I will ride it out - but if not and im getting [censored] speeds the im off...and prolly virgin cable - is it 30 day satisfaction thingy? - do they take 2 months upfront? I rem I was gunna sign up some time ago and it was gunna be £100 to get it on cos of double bubble or something like that
thanks for all the replies and help guys
Edited by paulb100 (Sun 15-Apr-12 00:40:59)
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1st bill is a double bill - was back in my time.
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1st bill is a double bill - was back in my time.
thats a real killer that, almost £100!!! we couldnt afford it so they lose customers doing that - mind, 99% of them dont know until its too late - cant remember how I founf out during sign up - think it must tell you before you commit
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I remember finding out when the direct debit came out.
My first sky bill was slightly higher too. Not double though. I expect the first bill to be "weird" nowadays.
To add. Never happened to me but...
If you can't afford the bill and they cut you off. To get reactivated they demand another double bill. Bit of a joke really. Kick you whilst you're down.
Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 15-Apr-12 01:14:22)
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Hi Chrysalis - as you may have spotted my local torrent freak seems to have turned his client off tonight. In fact the TBB chart has been looking a lot better for some time. NO IP change for me so it's either a case of the torrent freak having shut down or learned how to configure his client or others being moved off my segment of the network.
I'll still be moving on though as soon as I can - I don't believe that VM deserve my business after the poor service they provided for the previous 6 months.
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And all of those probably use different routes out of the VM network. There is congestion on some of these external links
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Am on my 3rd (or 4th - lost count!) hub and am now waiting for an engr (?) to arrive - again.
Hub required rebooting after slow-downs, then yesterday no internet at all. This morning internet now running.
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