Virgin say I can't have both Super Hub 2 and static IP

So it looks like we cannot get BT Fibre in our office (see post about it on the general Fibre forum) so our only hope is VM.

This is for a business connection serving 15-35 computers plus many smartphones on Wifi.

We have a few requirements:
* We'd like the max upload possible (e.g. 5-10MB)
* We'd like to connect our existing routers and Wifi APs to this internet connection.
* We'd like a static IP address.

We've had a few discussions with a Virgin salesperson but they claim they can only provide fixed IP with 50MB package at the moment, and a Super Hub 2 (which I understand from these forums may be necessary to connect to our previous routers using modem mode) is only available on 152MB, but not a static IP address!

Is the salesperson correct? Is there any way to get a static IP address from a third-party that will point to my (DMZ) server?

We do most of the network tech in-house although we're not that experienced. It's mainly used for internet access.

Here's the email conversation:

Question
> Apparently we need a "Super Hub 2" (not Super Hub 1) which allows "modem mode" and can be connected to our existing wifi - is it possible to receive that?

Reply:
The super hub 2 is for the 152Mb which can be used in modem only mode but cannot obtain static/fixed IP addressed � only the 50Mb can do so however this connection is best not used in modem only mode.

Qu:
> Just to confirm is it £30 for 50MB and £35 for 152MB without phone line? With the phone-line ( as a bundle) what was the cost ? (Please remind me )

Reply:
The £30 and £35 are without the phone line and are just for the broadband as a standalone product. With the phone line it is £40 for 50mb or £50 for 152Mb bundles. If you get a bundle you receive 2 months free.

Qu:
> Is there any way offer even a single fixed IP right for 152? It is very important for us and could be a decider if to take virgin altogether.

Reply:
The upgrade path is normally fairly simply and can be done within around 10 working days however we would provide you with a new router for the new connection. We are unsure when fixed IP will be available on the 152Mb and so would advise if you need fixed IP to go with the 50Mb service.

Qu:
> What guarantees do you provide that they won't raise your prices mid-contract? Apparently Virgin can and has done so in the past.

Reply:
When you are contracted your pricing is fixed throughout the contractual term and will not be increased even if our standard pricing is to increase for those products. When you are within a contractual period, your pricing cannot be amended unless you request to do so for example � upgrading or adding features.

Why not just request a small block such as suggested at http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/Customer-area/H...

Then you can run your own business grade Ethernet firewall to provide NAT services, totally independent of the actual cable connection.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Why not just request a small block such as suggested at http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/Customer-area/H...

Then you can run your own business grade Ethernet firewall to provide NAT services, totally independent of the actual cable connection.

that page says:

In reference to www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/Customer-area/Help-Support/Broadband-...:

We can supply static IP addressing but this can only be provided if requested at the time of ordering. The available options are 1 address, 5 addresses or 13 usable public IP addresses.

And that's exactly what Virgin salesperson is saying we can't order with the 152MB package ("superfast broadband"). For some reason that appears to escape logic, it is possible to order/arrange with the 50MB package.

I'm hoping they're wrong.

In reply to a post by mstrom:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Why not just request a small block such as suggested at http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/Customer-area/H...

Then you can run your own business grade Ethernet firewall to provide NAT services, totally independent of the actual cable connection.

that page says:

In reference to www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/Customer-area/Help-Support/Broadband-...:

We can supply static IP addressing but this can only be provided if requested at the time of ordering. The available options are 1 address, 5 addresses or 13 usable public IP addresses.

And that's exactly what Virgin salesperson is saying we can't order with the 152MB package ("superfast broadband"). For some reason that appears to escape logic, it is possible to order/arrange with the 50MB package.

I'm hoping they're wrong.

You have been give the facts by Virgin; a fixed IP does restrict you 50Mbps down and 5Mbps up. To get more than that in a barren FTTC area you are looking at a leased line solution with an eye watering monthly fee.

Wickford, Essex - no FTTC available, ADSL abysmal so Virgin had to be used.. A single fixed IP, as per FTTC installations, was thought to be all that was required for incoming VPN connectivity. So that was ordered together with their 50/5 Business service. It seems for technical reasons on the Virgin network that's the best speed they call offer when a fixed IP is required.

Now the plan was to use the router provided, set it into modem mode and daisy chain into a Draytek 2830vN router and for that setup any help and advice from Virgin evaporates more quickly the water spilled in the Sarah Desert with the help desk at Draytek not faring much better.

To this day I don't understand why, but I was obliged to have a pool of IP address although only two were eventually used. There was no problem in providing this pool of IP address a week after the service went live using a so called Super Hub 2 which turned out to be loaded with Software Version BUS_V2.37.13.

Virgin provided detailed instructions of how to place their router into modem mode and the Draytek web site provided instructions of how to configure their router.to accept the service. So far so good. Getting our teleworkers connected in using different ISPs and their supplied router proved to be very stressful and in some cases was only possible by swapping out their router with a Draytek unit.

The built-in VPN client found in Windows7 and 8.1 was used for L2TP over IPsec with pre-shared key. OK we have only got 8 connected devices with three teleworkers, all accessing the document server with no issues at all.

The TBB speed test reveals that we have a straight line graph of 48.4Mbps down and minor blips giving an upload an speed of 5.3Mbps. Latency is 22ms. Maybe with 40 staff such a connection may struggle at times, but hey a few years ago you had to make do with a wet piece of string for your internet connection. Just because there are higher speeds out there, it doesn't mean you have to have, or need, the fastest.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

To this day I don't understand why, but I was obliged to have a pool of IP address although only two were eventually used.

There was no problem in providing this pool of IP address a week after the service went live using a so called Super Hub 2 which turned out to be loaded with Software Version BUS_V2.37.13.

Virgin provided detailed instructions of how to place their router into modem mode and the Draytek web site provided instructions of how to configure their router.to accept the service. So far so good. Getting our teleworkers connected in using different ISPs and their supplied router proved to be very stressful and in some cases was only possible by swapping out their router with a Draytek unit.

How did you get a Super Hub 2 though? Did you just beg for it. They only want to give me a Home Hub 1 for the 50MB package which apparently doesn't have modem mode?

Is it true that a Home Hub 1 can't easily be connection to (say) a regular Draytek router?

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

The TBB speed test reveals that we have a straight line graph of 48.4Mbps down and minor blips giving an upload an speed of 5.3Mbps. Latency is 22ms. Maybe with 40 staff such a connection may struggle at times, but hey a few years ago you had to make do with a wet piece of string for your internet connection. Just because there are higher speeds out there, it doesn't mean you have to have, or need, the fastest.

We really do need the higher upload speed, it's essential to our internet-based high-data business.

In reply to a post by mstrom:

We really do need the higher upload speed, it's essential to our internet-based high-data business.

I don't suppose it'd be welcome to ask why you based yourself somewhere an essential resource wasn't available?

Anyway, if regular broadband connections aren't going to cut the mustard, and fibre isn't going to get to you, then you probably need to start considering a leased line. Not very expensive if it really is essential to the business...

I keep pointing at the Spitfire leased lines - not because I know anything about their business, but because they do put some prices up there.
Copper EFM at 10Mbps from £220pm, at 20Mbps from £320pm.
http://www.spitfire.co.uk/Ethernet_efm.shtml?headerb...

They also have prices for fibre leased lines, and the new GEA-based leased lines (though the latter won't work for you, if NGA fibre isn't coming to your cab).

You might even qualify for a BDUK connection voucher
http://www.spitfire.co.uk/BroadbandConnectionVoucher...

In reply to a post by mstrom:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

To this day I don't understand why, but I was obliged to have a pool of IP address although only two were eventually used.

There was no problem in providing this pool of IP address a week after the service went live using a so called Super Hub 2 which turned out to be loaded with Software Version BUS_V2.37.13.

Virgin provided detailed instructions of how to place their router into modem mode and the Draytek web site provided instructions of how to configure their router.to accept the service. So far so good. Getting our teleworkers connected in using different ISPs and their supplied router proved to be very stressful and in some cases was only possible by swapping out their router with a Draytek unit.

How did you get a Super Hub 2 though? Did you just beg for it. They only want to give me a Home Hub 1 for the 50MB package which apparently doesn't have modem mode?

Is it true that a Home Hub 1 can't easily be connection to (say) a regular Draytek router?

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

The TBB speed test reveals that we have a straight line graph of 48.4Mbps down and minor blips giving an upload an speed of 5.3Mbps. Latency is 22ms. Maybe with 40 staff such a connection may struggle at times, but hey a few years ago you had to make do with a wet piece of string for your internet connection. Just because there are higher speeds out there, it doesn't mean you have to have, or need, the fastest.

We really do need the higher upload speed, it's essential to our internet-based high-data business.

When I started off the process of ordering the Virgin service, I made it clear that I would be using my own router. I thought that they would have simply installed a modem, but no the superhub 2 just turned up. Of course I was dealing with the business division so maybe that is the key there for the hardware that is supplied.

Of course it is disappointing that the upload speed doesn't match what you can get with FTTC but unless you are very lucky it wouldn't be much more than 10Mbps anyway. At least with FTTC you can go for bonding, something that apparently is not possible with Virgin as I gather they won't provide duplicate services to the same address.

I am afraid you are stuck with that 5Mbps upload speed unless you have deep enough pockets to go for a leased line solution or win the lottery to pay for gap funding to have your local cabinet upgraded to FTTC.

I suppose you could opt for higher speeds and try and get DDNS to work reliably but I just have a gut feeling that you will be doomed to failure going down that route for a cable service.

I can't comment on whether a superhub 1 has or hasn't a modem mode feature but if Virgin won't supply a superhub 2 to you then the only way forward is to purchase a Virgin cable modem/router from the Draytek range; it might be easier to setup than having two pieces of hardware and opens up the prospect of only needing one fixed IP.

Do keep us posted on your trials and tribulations that gets you where you want to be as we can all learn here on this issue. All I can add to the speed issue where the fixed IP is required is that Virgin did think that by the middle of next year higher speeds, both up and down, would become available. Remarkably adding that it would be a free upgrade.

BTW, we were obliged to accept a three your minimum term with no discounted exit fees if we left their service before the term was up.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

In reply to a post by mstrom:

We really do need the higher upload speed, it's essential to our internet-based high-data business.

I don't suppose it'd be welcome to ask why you based yourself somewhere an essential resource wasn't available?

We were promised by BT that fibre (FTTC) would be available within 12 months (so 2 years ago) and since they were upgrading cabinets all around the area at the time I had no reason to doubt them.

I didn't consider the possibility that they would leave a cabinet in a densely populated London area unconnected for "mere" logistical reasons.

As you say, when the need gets pressing enough, and we can afford it we might have to get a leased line. Perhaps though in the meanwhile VM will allow 152MB with static IP as trolleybus and I are hoping/expecting.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

All I can add to the speed issue where the fixed IP is required is that Virgin did think that by the middle of next year higher speeds, both up and down, would become available. Remarkably adding that it would be a free upgrade.

Do you have in writing/email and if so, can you PM me pls?

In reply to a post by mstrom:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

All I can add to the speed issue where the fixed IP is required is that Virgin did think that by the middle of next year higher speeds, both up and down, would become available. Remarkably adding that it would be a free upgrade.

Do you have in writing/email and if so, can you PM me pls?

It was a conversation topic during the ordering process, so nothing to back up the statements made. I knew that the 50Mbps down would be OK for the simultaneous use of the connection with a large download in progress and 5 VoIP phones in use but 5Mbps wasn't so great to have so obviously enquired when that might change for the better and was advised it was something Virgin were actively working on with a probable availability of the middle of next year, maybe sooner.

I read in another thread it was something to do with a new release of DOCIS [?] being trialled at the moment. Exactly what the improved upload speed would be is unknown but to make any sense would need to match what is possible with FTTC. If it isn't then where both services are available, punters would naturally go for FTTC.