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Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sat 16-Apr-16 15:35:52
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Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[link to this post]
 
So I'll try to be brief but this is a problem I've been having for many months on Virgin, and it seems I'm not alone in that it's gotten worse since the VIVID 'upgrade'.

Basically, single-thread speeds are woeful around peak times but as others have found, Virgin refuse to accept anything but speedtest.net for diagnostics.

This is what peak time looks like for me: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Vs off-peak: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Obviously I've checked using far more that just the TBB tester and this is fully reperasentaitive of the real-world HTTP/FTP download speeds I'm getting.

I'm having an infuriatingly hard time getting VM to acknowledge a problem, let alone begin to investigate it, so I'm just wondering if anyone has had any success in getting this sort of issue resolved? Feel free to ask for any more details, I just don't want to make the first post a huge wall of text.

Many Thanks!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 16-Apr-16 16:30:19
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Since speedtest.net usually uses 8 threads it will of course give a good result even when people have congestion, hence why providers like it so much.

Alas on cable networks contention is a lot more visible than the DSL products

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sat 16-Apr-16 16:42:54
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Any idea if there's a way to get it resolved? I've been back and forth with tech support, the forums and now the complaints team and I'm getting nowhere, I just keep getting told that no fault is showing on their network.

I noticed you responded to a similar thread and I wonder if it could be something similar causing it? http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/virgin_cable/t/4465...

Or is it one of those things they'll refuse to acknowledge so I'll just have to put up with unless it coincidentally gets resolved one day?

Here's another speed test from right now: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

I think the way they're handling it i.e. implying I'm making it up or something, is annoying me almost as much as the problem itself now!

Thanks very much for replying! smile


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 16-Apr-16 17:43:56
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
As this issue 'corrects' itself at off peak times it is not a configuration issue, but simply that congestion is rearing its ugly head in your area.

At some point it will get so bad that Virgin Media will do something to add more capacity in the area, or the small number of people downloading the Internet library will stop.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Eeeps
(newbie) Sat 16-Apr-16 17:50:18
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
I think you may find this is 'by design'.

The more modern CMTS equipment can implement a QOS known as Weighted Fair Queuing. This de-prioritises packets of continuous streams.

On an uncongested cable segment this has no impact to speed.
However as congestion increases, the deprioritised packets get delayed / dropped and TCP speeds decrease. You can see the effect in my graph when speeds start off fast and then reduce.

Single Thread Slow Down

This is by design because packets associated with web browsing and gaming do not get de-prioritised.

What is your Thinkbroadband ping monitor like when your single thread slows? Mine stays very good.

Ping during slow single thread

Cheers,

Ian
Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sat 16-Apr-16 18:07:41
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much for the replies guys.

Yeah I was wondering if perhaps the CMTS brand/model had something to do with it, as while it's not country-wide, I know people from various places around the country on VM with the exact same problem. I wonder if there's a way to identify the type of CMTS you're on?

WFQ just seems not so fair when you consider some very traffic-heavy programs/protocols like torrents, Steam, etc completely bypass it by using multiple threads.

If I use a multi-chunk download accelerator it massively improves download speeds for servers that actually allow it, but of course many don't so it's only occasionally an acceptable workaround.

Having spoken to multiple people at VM, a couple have mentioned my 'wire' (whatever they mean by that) is at just over 50% capacity which shouldn't be an issue, but a visiting technician said that 50% is actually pretty high and could be causing problems, but maybe not past the escalation threshold yet.

It's still really irritating that they claim they can't see any problems on the network when they've looked. It makes me wonder what exactly they've been testing, and at what time of day.

WRT my ping monitor, yeah it's mostly fine regardless of single-thread speed: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/286f325d1d4...

Thanks!

Edited by watercooled (Sat 16-Apr-16 18:10:09)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Sat 16-Apr-16 23:13:01
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Having spoken to multiple people at VM, a couple have mentioned my 'wire' (whatever they mean by that) is at just over 50% capacity which shouldn't be an issue, but a visiting technician said that 50% is actually pretty high and could be causing problems, but maybe not past the escalation threshold yet.


I had 95% utilisation value and even then, as it only reached that value for 3 hours per day, it was not classified as a fault. Virginmedia did allow me to leave with virtually no argument though. How bad is the congestion? I was falling anywhere between 1Mbps and 10Mbps every evening.

Virgin also offered a price reduction as an alternative.
Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sat 16-Apr-16 23:47:18
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Take a look at my TBB tests linked earlier in the thread; they're fairly representative of speeds I'm getting with normal downloads, now generally around 8-15Mbps at peak times.

I've no idea what that ~50% figure is relating to, whether it's peak, 95th percentile, or what part of the network it's from, or even if it's accurate. I have been told by someone else however that VM have very rigid utilisation metrics and even if it's bordering on unacceptable, they won't open a ticket until it consistently crosses it.

Unfortunately VM are refusing to even acknowledge a problem exists in my case. After many months of complaining on the forums (since January, but the problem existed for some time before that) someone finally escalated it to networks and I was given a fault code, but they're still saying they can't find a problem, despite the fact it happens very consistently at peak times and I've exhausted fault-finding options on my end. Even friends in my area are having the exact same problem occurring at the same time.

There's quite a long story of trying to get it sorted, including having technicians out only for them to run speedtest.net to a Virgin-owned server and write down the results of that, and say there's nothing wrong on the RF side so they're not able to do anything. I understand that, but saying download speeds are OK on their reports isn't exactly helping matters. But I won't go over the whole thing again here, suffice to say I've tried everything I can think of to rule out local problems and trying to contact VM via everything from phone to chat to their forums.

I'm thoroughly disappointed with their tech support on this issue to say the least, and that's not even including the weeks I spent of having overseas phone support telling me to try again in a week or to reboot my modem because they've sent some signals to fix my modem...

Really I'm just fed up with it now, sick of getting told there's nothing wrong, and having wasted so many hours of my days off trying to get it resolved and waiting in for needless tech visits.

Thanks!

Edited by watercooled (Sat 16-Apr-16 23:50:37)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 23-Apr-16 14:51:06
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
yeah and here.

https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/Very-poor...

ouch, wonder if ignition can reveal here.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sat 23-Apr-16 15:57:37
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Yeah that's the thread I started on VM's forums, you can see how much success myself and the other posters with the same problem have had...
Standard User watercooled
(newbie) Sun 22-May-16 23:41:51
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
It looks like we might have spotted a common link between problematic connections on the VM forums. So far everyone with the problem who has checked is on a CMTS with a 'RiverDelta' MAC address which I assume means Motorola.

We don't have a ton of data yet but it does seem to be the case so far. Ideally we could use some more people with/without the problem to post what CMTS they're on to see if the trend continues.

If you're interested, you can find the CMTS MAC address in a Superhub 3 by looking in network logs (be careful not to confuse it with the modem's MAC address though). If you're on a SH2 I think you need to be in modem mode and look at ARP tables in the connected router - that worked for me anyway.

And use a MAC lookup site to enter the first 6 digits and see what company it's linked to: http://www.macvendorlookup.com/
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 23-May-16 09:05:22
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'm assuming that TBBs monthly summary of download speeds shows the results for the multi-thread downloads. It would be interesting to know what, if any, slowdown is seen on multi vs single thread speeds for different ISPs as that would give a clue about congestion impacts.I realise that the tables are already a bit complex, but it would be intriguing to know (and it also shows the problem of characterising BB performance with a single metric).

Single thread performance can be an issue as many protocols are inherently single threaded. It also reminds me that the TCP congestion control protocols were designed on a "play nice" good neighbour basis. It was designed to treat all TCP connections on an equal basis. Once multi-streaming protocols arrived that "good neighbour" assumption went out the window (subtle TCP flow-control pun unintended).
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 23-May-16 09:09:20
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
Have stopped fiddling with single threaded now, so once we have a clear month or two of data to look at will talk about the overall results more.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 23-May-16 11:01:58
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Good. It might prove interesting. Services like 4K UHD streaming seem to need a sustainable 20mbps or so. Not that I personally see much point in UHD for consumption in a typical UK living room (rather than authoring), but some will consider it important.
Standard User mikehiow
(committed) Mon 23-May-16 17:17:26
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
I definitely experience the single threaded issue and I'm on a Cisco CMTS.

Goodbye Hyperoptic. Now VM200 frown
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Mon 23-May-16 18:24:22
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
It seems like Virgin are continuing to just brush it under the carpet as long as they can point to speedtest.net results and act like they don't know of any problems. If speedtest started showing single threaded results I bet they'd do something about it!
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Mon 23-May-16 18:36:10
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: mikehiow] [link to this post]
 
How bad is it for you? My single threaded speed is around the 10Mb mark or lower at peak times now.
Standard User Eeeps
(newbie) Mon 23-May-16 19:38:30
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
I find the Netflix speed test gives very similar results the TBB single thread test...

Netflix Speed Test

Mine drops to about 20-30Mb/s at peak.

I also note that the single thread TBB test starts higher and then drops off.
Standard User mikehiow
(committed) Mon 23-May-16 19:41:31
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Hmm.

I think they might have fixed something in my area, because I just got 180/210 on the x1 at 19:40;

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Goodbye Hyperoptic. Now VM200 frown
Standard User chris6273
(committed) Mon 23-May-16 19:49:00
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
35Mbps here using the Netflix speedtest.

I'm on a Riverdelta CMTS and see the same single thread issues. It's pretty pathetic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.K.A: Chrisszzyy

Telewest (2004-2006): 256Kbps -> 512Kbps
University of Portsmouth's Horrible Network (2013 - 2014) - Supposedly 100/100Mbps
BT (2006 - Present): 8128/448 -> 22494/1211 -> 79987/20000Kbps (BT Infinity 2 on Huawei Cab)
Virgin Media's ridiculously rubbish upload connection (2014 - Present): 152/12Mbps
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Mon 23-May-16 20:11:34
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: chris6273] [link to this post]
 
The Netflix test doesn't do too badly for me; usually over 100Mb anyway. It only used three threads when I checked, which backs up what I was saying about it being route-dependent. There are a handful of other CDNs that perform OK, it's just *most* downloads are poor.

The common factor amongst poor downloads seems to be going via a London interconnection point. The Netflix test goes to IP addresses mostly inside VM's own network and closer than London (Manchester and Leeds). The third does seem to go via London but peers with VM, and handles less traffic than the others anyway.

I'm not sure why a CMTS issue would be route-dependent, but it's just something affected connections seem to have in common so far.

I know I'm fed up with getting sub-ADSL speeds on a '200Mb' package!
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 16-Jun-16 18:14:10
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Still no movement on this sadly, and it was really bad last night with even Youtube struggling, and the fast.com test was below 30Mb.

I wonder if TBB staff would consider looking in to this e.g. if anything is obvious on speed test logs from VM customers in general, or from certain postcode areas?

Unfortunately I can't find a way to complain directly to Ofcom, only ADR thourgh CISAS which would probably just result in contract termination, but I'd much rather get to the bottom of it as before this problem my VM connection was great.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jun-16 19:04:34
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Of the major providers Virgin Media has the biggest swing between peak and off-peak speeds, something like 15-20% on average, which means for some it will be significantly worse. We can split Virgin Media into its areas by use of the reverse DNS name but this means test volumes are then too low to be reliable for looking at peak versus off peak issues.

Virgin should be well aware of the networks performance just the people you talk to may not be privy to the full detail. Our tester along with the fast one is one of the few that is deliberately set to be fairly sensitive to performance issues. The SamKnows testing was mentioned as something Virgin Media wanted reviewing as they were saying it was not showing the right speeds on their 200 Mbps service, but this might actually be the number of threads running again - so will be interesting to see how Ofcom handles this when they publish their next round of results.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 16-Jun-16 19:41:19
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately it's much worse than 20% for me; on the 200Mb package we get anything between 5 and 20 at peak times lately. The fast.com test tends to perform better than yours and the speedof.me test but I suspect it's due to local peering with Netflix avoiding what seem to be troublesome London interconnection point routes.

Yeah I understand it's a difficult thing to prove from your end, it's just a thought. But I really hope Ofcom don't further relax single thread performance requirements as it shows Virgin Media in a much better light than is fair. And Samknows barely touch single-thread as it is - I did contact them and mentioned this issue and the person I spoke to said re-introducing it is something they're investigating but I really hope they go ahead with it.

The way things are at the moment, Virgin can sell a service which is in practical terms slower than ADSL as a 200Mb product and get away with it because of speedtest.net's curious testing methodology.

As much as I try and complain to either VM support or on their forums, I'm just met with utter silence or the assertion that speedtest.net looks OK so it must be an 'off-network problem' which is ridiculous.
Standard User andaroo79
(newbie) Thu 16-Jun-16 20:05:30
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
funny you should mention the service deteriorating since the vivid upgrade. Mine was exactly the same,

Mine went from a consistent 90 or so mbps+ to anywhere from 1 to 10mbps. Virgin refused to admit there was a problem.

From the 8th Of July, my virgin media superhub will go dark for good. They even had the cheek to charge me an early disconnection fee, something which was far easier to tolerate than the frequent slow speeds and repetitive phone calls.

poor show vm.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 16-Jun-16 20:11:30
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: andaroo79] [link to this post]
 
I don't know which is worse, that they know a problem exists and refuse to fix it, or that they genuinely aren't aware of a major problem with their network in some areas.
Standard User andaroo79
(newbie) Thu 16-Jun-16 20:20:46
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
i have no clue

bit like virgin media really.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jun-16 21:11:41
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Yeah fast will be accessing the CDN which given the size of Virgin Media should be on their network.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 16-Jun-16 21:23:43
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
It's just so utterly frustrating having them constantly stonewall me when I try to explain the problem and ask if/when it's like to get fixed.

Like you say, surely the networks team must be aware of something like this? But according to the forum support, the networks team is telling them something like 'single thread can be variable so we only use multi-thread'. Yeah, that's useful! Not...
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Jun-16 22:35:55
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
The real test is what services are being impacted by the issue, and highlighting what is impacted from actual applications.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 16-Jun-16 23:34:18
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
That's the thing though, I've even tried explaining how things like streaming, windows updates, just normal everyday file downloads are badly affected by this but they just refuse to accept it's their problem.

I've explained it to the point that it doesn't make sense to me that they can't understand it.

The best I get is someone new to the problem saying something like 'I agree this does seem like a problem', only for them to go away for a couple of days then come back with something along the lines of 'I've spoken to the networks team and they said the problem is off-network', at which point it all goes silent and I get ignored for another couple of months.

The cynic in me thinks they do understand what I'm saying quite well but are themselves being stonewalled from higher up. That's what it seems like at least.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 17-Jun-16 14:17:01
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think it would be very interesting if you showed results per area for VM peak vs off peak, if you can get over this thing you have against small sample set's you can make TBB a very valuable tool for consumers.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 17-Jun-16 14:27:57
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
VM have been like this for years, including the NTL days.

Generally speaking if you in a bad area, they will either tell you its acceptable service, or just give you a ongoing discount and say take it or leave it, when they offer the discount they also typically tell you a upgrade is forthcoming, but 9 times out of 10 it doesnt happen, typically the only upgrades I ever witnessed was the one's carried out to match rollout's of new packages. I dont recall ever having an upgrade done on my node for "capacity management" alone.

What seems to have happened with this vivid rollout is some more corner cutting, someone flicking a switch without upgrades or upgrades have been done to capacity but not to the same scale as the speed increase and as such increasing congestion, even to previously good area's.

Regarding single threaded I think isp's had a point 10 years ago when operating systems had static sized tcp buffers meaning if a OS wasnt tuned, then the buffer could be too small to max out a connection single threaded, and regional CDN's were not the rage so downloading was often done over the atlantic compounding the buffer problem, however now every modern OS auto tunes the tcp buffer so at least on the client side single threaded performance should be adequate. My experience is on a good isp, mainstream services such as youtube, netflix and microsoft updates can max out my FTTC line single threaded.

Now there may be a valid argument e.g. if on a gigabit connection a single thread might only reach a few hundred mbit, but that wouldnt be noticeable to the end user and not break anything, a single threaded speed low enough to break services (generally sub 10mbit), is an isp side problem most of the time. Isp's insisting on multi threaded speed tests generally have something to hide.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 17-Jun-16 14:38:12
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
The danger of small sample sizes is even if the data is supporting end user experience someone will roll out an 'expert' saying the results are not statistically significant and thus can be ignored.

i.e. a fine line to walk, but will revisit over the summer and see if a regional split gives enough data. The problem is not the peak time, but getting enough repeat people testing at the off-peak times.

It may be that for some larger VM areas I have enough to do something useful.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 17-Jun-16 15:09:29
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In London, North West, I would fall below 10Mbps every evening. There must be statistics showing this... & that was 10Mbps on speedtest.net (multi threaded). There are sadly some very significant congestion issues on virginmedia.

Very hard to prove I know.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 19-Jun-16 01:32:32
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
now you explained it this way I understand where you coming from, no doubt someone will try to discredit the results I agree.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 28-Jun-16 23:32:41
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Well I'm back in Brum this week, using the Virgin Media connection that for the past 3-4 years has been solid.....

Seems that bandwidth boosts in the are have taken their toll and now not just single thread slow downs, but multiple thread slow downs too...

I did hav to chuckle though, I went on the Virgin Community Forum's to see if anyone else was complaining and found they where, the funny part was where Virgin wanted somebody to switch to modem mode and thy the connection again...

However what I know is that switching to modem mode changes the allocation on Virgins systems meaning you can get assigned to a less or non congested part of the network...

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
SkyFibre - 39998/9995kbps
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 30-Jun-16 15:25:20
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
However what I know is that switching to modem mode changes the allocation on Virgins systems meaning you can get assigned to a less or non congested part of the network...


It does no more than rebooting the Superhub.

EDIT: As far as the cable network goes that is. It changes IP address as the MAC address of the device getting the IP has changed, it's no longer the Superhub itself getting it but the device behind it.

Edited by Ignitionnet (Thu 30-Jun-16 15:26:37)

Standard User watercooled
(learned) Sat 12-Nov-16 16:27:34
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The danger of small sample sizes is even if the data is supporting end user experience someone will roll out an 'expert' saying the results are not statistically significant and thus can be ignored.

i.e. a fine line to walk, but will revisit over the summer and see if a regional split gives enough data. The problem is not the peak time, but getting enough repeat people testing at the off-peak times.

It may be that for some larger VM areas I have enough to do something useful.


@MrSaffron: Have you been able to find any more patterns on this issue? I've ended up switching ISP as VM still haven't even acknowledged the problem. A couple of friends nearby are still on cheap VM packages so I can still see nothing has changed e.g. 8-9Mb/s on 50Mb packages.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 12-Nov-16 18:17:57
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Not had time to code up the regions into the peak/off peak system.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Sun 20-Nov-16 12:44:45
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I just find it ironic how VM keep beating the 'we give everyone the speed they pay for' drum, criticising 'up to' speeds from DSL providers and claiming consumers are being misled by those ISPs. And all that whilst seemingly ignoring problems such as this on their own network meaning there's a vast difference between speed tests and achievable speeds in the majority of real downloads. Who's misleading customers with the 'up to' speed again VM???
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 21-Nov-16 11:10:43
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by watercooled:
in the majority of real downloads

Majority? I think you'll find it is actually a minority of real downloads. It is perhaps even a statistically insignificant number, and though I don't have access to actual numbers to prove that, the anecdotal evidence on this forum certainly constitutes an insignificant statistic.
Of course that anecdotal evidence here and on their own forums does indicate there is some kind of issue but if you are looking for a majority then the only valid one is: 'the overwhelming majority of VM customers have no issue or do not notice the issue', which is exactly what they'd say to WatchDog or Ofcom.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Mon 21-Nov-16 18:52:13
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
So every HTTP, FTP download through web browsers and FTP clients, Windows Updates, OSX updates, Microsoft store downloads, VPN tunnels, PSN downloads, Xbox Live downloads, iOS updates and downloads, Android updates and downloads, Netflix streaming, Youtube streaming, Amazon video streaming, iPlayer streaming, just to list a few is a 'minority' of downloads as you describe it? Yeah OK then...

If you're not affected, great for you, the fact is this affects the *majority* of downloads and network activity for people who are affected, exactly like I said. You might want to consider losing the condescending attitude if you don't fully understand the extent of the problem. When significantly affected, the connection becomes about as usable as a long ADSL line, hence why myself and a load of other people in the same boat have left and gone to ISPs without this problem.

'Not noticing' does not mean there is not a problem especially given how Virgin phone support apparently have no idea what the problem is and just continuously blame the Internet as a whole for the problems before accepting the issue lies on their own network, and they point at the (highly multithreaded) ookla speed test as 'proof' they're not to blame which is misleading at best. Many/most people would likely not 'notice' the difference between a 50 and 200Mb connection were it not for speed tests - is that reason enough to limit all of VM's packages to their base 50Mb speed for everything but speedtests going by your logic?

Myself and plenty of other people (bear in mind a tiny minority of people with problems will actually bother to complain on forums) with the problem noticed easily enough, even if not everyone immediately realised what was causing it.

Edit: Unless the 'minority' you're referring to is the number of people affected vs total ISP subscribers? That's entirely possible and not the point I'm trying to make - but I do know for a fact that every one of the ~5 people I know on the same CMTS have the exact same problem, but a friend at the other side of the city and connected to a different headend seems to be unaffected, and yet more people in other parts of the country are completely unaffected.

However there is nothing remotely anecdotal about the performance of the affected connections.

Edited by watercooled (Mon 21-Nov-16 19:17:49)

Standard User Daemon66
(member) Tue 22-Nov-16 09:43:44
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, it really is surprising that a single customer having an issue will experience that issue on pretty much all their downloads isn't it? Duh! And sure, please change what you meant by majority to have a go at me.
All I am saying is that it is apparently a very minor issue in real terms which is why you will not get VM to do anything. If it is an issue for you then simply vote with your feet and go to another provider.
is that reason enough to limit all of VM's packages to their base 50Mb speed for everything but speedtests going by your logic?

Well, even if they did actually put a hard limit in place like that for everyone I for one wouldn't have an issue and I doubt there would be many who would. So long as I can stream a number of HD/UHD movies/shows simultaneously and download games multithreaded I'll be happy.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 22-Nov-16 15:44:11
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
I thought a little about why ofcom and the ASA appear to be doing nothing about it, and I suspect that politically it would be a disaster if VM stopped investment and the existing 300mbit products were ruled to not count as 300 in congested areas, so its probably been decided to ignore it and in exchange VM carry on expanding their footprint without worries of having to deal with throughput issues.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 22-Nov-16 15:52:05
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Does that mean that paying for a fast download but getting less than 50% of the advertised speed is acceptable as long as catch-up tv is ok?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User cje85
(newbie) Tue 22-Nov-16 16:19:19
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Here's a speed test I did earlier

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Other than speedtest.net and game downloads everything else rarely exceeds 50Mbps.

It's frustrating that Virgin are so dismissive of this problem, I still see speed tests from users that can reach 200Mb on single thread downloads. Shouldn't that speed be available to all users? How is it fair that in this area we can pay for 200Mb yet can only download at 50Mbps, but somewhere else they pay for 200Mb and can download at 200Mbps?

The ageing RiverDelta (Motorola) CMTS's seem to be the common link between everyone who has this problem. The sooner Virgin replace them the better, with any luck it will resolve the issue.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Tue 22-Nov-16 18:39:29
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Does that mean that paying for a fast download but getting less than 50% of the advertised speed is acceptable as long as catch-up tv is ok?


I'm not sure I understand what you're asking? Taking the question at face value, I guess the answer would be no?
Standard User dynamic
(member) Tue 22-Nov-16 21:27:27
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
Mine is pretty bad too, like this every evening really

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

My single thread download speed any any HTTP test file I can find never seems to exceed a rate of 1 Mb/s transfer.

I'm not sure how to check what CMTS I'm on but as this area was cabled back when Diamond Cable was a thing even before NTL so I'm guessing it's an old one.
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Tue 22-Nov-16 22:40:01
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: dynamic] [link to this post]
 
There are a couple of ways to find the MAC address of the CMTS which you can use to look up its manufacturer. It's probably best not to post the whole address here though, the first 6 digits are enough to do this lookup.

If you have a Superhub 3, have a look through the network logs, you should find the CMTS MAC address after messages such as those starting with DHCP RENEW.

I don't know of a direct way to find the MAC address on the SH2, but if you're using it in modem mode, have a look in the ARP table of your connected router. They're laid out differently depending on manufacturer and some might not show this table at all, but have a look if it specifies one on the WAN interface, or if not see which one is associated with the IP of the default gateway (this IP will start off similar to your own public IP address but the last part will be different, usually lower).

Once you have the MAC address, put at least the first 6 digits into a lookup site such as this: https://macvendors.com/
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Wed 23-Nov-16 10:07:58
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Getting less than 50% of the advertised speed in a single thread will not be noticed or have any significant impact on the overwhelming majority of users so long as the reduction is sufficient to maintain a good HD/UHD stream. Getting less than 50% of the advertised speed when using multiple threads would obviously be an issue.
(I generally get near to 110% of the advertised speed multi-threaded, except when using TBB's tester.)
Standard User cje85
(newbie) Wed 23-Nov-16 10:34:07
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Would you agree that the speed shown in this graph of a download from wetransfer.com is unacceptable? Especially as that website used to constantly reach the full 200Mb, until VM obliterated single thread speeds. Now it doesn't even reach 20Mb/s.

https://s11.postimg.org/pmh3koxer/download.jpg

Edited by cje85 (Wed 23-Nov-16 10:34:47)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 23-Nov-16 14:29:34
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Life isn't all about watching catch up TV. Some users want to download files at a fast rate.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 24-Nov-16 02:15:33
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
in that case why dont they just sell a 50mbit service and be done with it?

Its like me saying I can sell a hdtv that advertises 4k resolution 10 bit colours and what not, but actually only supply a 1080p res and 8bit colours and its good because most wont notice smile (which would probably be true).

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 24-Nov-16 06:42:08
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Same reason no consumer ISP in the world I've seen sells at the committed bit rate and then has to explain what the burst figure means.

Would you buy a 2.5 Mbps service with a burst to a maximum speed of 38 Mbps where the 38 Mbps was also capped by the distance of your line to the street hardware?

Which actually will be the end game for the ASA speed rules if taken to full conclusion.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Thu 24-Nov-16 09:48:22
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
in that case why dont they just sell a 50mbit service and be done with it?
Are you deliberately being dumb? 50mbit would only support a single UHD stream (25mbps min) so would only be suitable for a single user. Whereas 200mbps allows all my family to stream what they want or play what they want. Also with 200mbps I can download stuff 4 times faster unless I use an antiquated system that single-threads the download.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Thu 24-Nov-16 09:52:13
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
Definitely unacceptable but I suspect that is because you have other issues not related to whether the download is single-threaded or not. If multi-threaded is quicker though why not use that?
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Thu 24-Nov-16 09:56:09
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
If you think streaming is all about catch up TV you need to update your calendar, it is now 2016.
As TBB states, if you are getting slow single-thread it could indicate congestion in your area, either get VM to look into that or if multi-threaded gives better download speeds use that instead.
Standard User cje85
(newbie) Thu 24-Nov-16 10:28:05
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Multithread is fine, with 200Mbps possible on speedtest.net. Is it possible to set Google Chrome to multithread downloads?

i can get full speed on EA Origin and Steam which are multithreaded, but the vast majority of other downloads are ridiculously slow (standard file downloads, music from Amazon, app updates on phone/tablets etc). They all used to be fine until around 12 months ago.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 24-Nov-16 15:47:24
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
Catch up or streaming ..... whatever! I have no issues except with people stating that it's ok to have a much lower speed than you pay for and expect.

Surely not everyone in your home requires 4K download capability. Not many films and content in 4K anyway.

Get out more!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User dynamic
(member) Thu 24-Nov-16 20:51:07
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the log doesn't keep an awful lot and the only messages with DHCP RENEW are "Error (4) 68010100 DHCP RENEW sent - No response for IPv4".

Quite a lot of them. Is it recommended to use the Superhub 3 as a modem only and purchase another router?

Cheers
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Thu 24-Nov-16 21:04:55
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: dynamic] [link to this post]
 
You might get it to show the MAC address by rebooting it and looking straight away.

With regards to using modem mode, it's up to you really; if you're finding it unreliable as a router or missing features then maybe another router would be worth considering. If not, why spend the extra money?
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 25-Nov-16 06:47:37
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I already buy such a service, although with much more favourable figures.

sky guarantee me 54mbit/sec throughput (and sync speed) so I have a 54mbit service burstable to 73mbit/sec.

The issue with VM is that if you on the wrong vendor kit and especially if you in a high utilisation area, then the so called burst speed you can forget during the busier hours, whilst with most isp's you can generally get the burst speed most of the time.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Fri 25-Nov-16 09:34:18
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: cje85] [link to this post]
 
So you are one of the few who are badly affected by this issue. As I've said (and explained my reasoning) I very much doubt you'll be able to get any action from VM on it so vote with your feet and head to another provider.
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Fri 25-Nov-16 09:45:05
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
The fact is that having the capability for multiple FHD/UHD streams and still allowing for good gaming and even simple old web browsing at the same time is what ultra-fast broadband is all about these days. It is not about supporting people stuck in the past who want to do just one thing at a time, those people will never really need anything faster than 25mbps (well until UUHD comes along or whatever).

If you are one of the few who are badly affected by the single-thread issue, as you appear to be, then as I've said (and explained my reasoning) I very much doubt you'll be able to get any action from VM on it so vote with your feet and head to another provider.
Standard User cje85
(newbie) Fri 25-Nov-16 10:02:30
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Daemon66:
So you are one of the few who are badly affected by this issue. As I've said (and explained my reasoning) I very much doubt you'll be able to get any action from VM on it so vote with your feet and head to another provider.


I fully intend to switch as soon as Openreach enable fibre in my area. But that's another story, the cabinet has been in place since early 2014 and still isn't live. The latest date is "31st March 2017" (originally May 2014).
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 25-Nov-16 10:06:27
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
So Sky reserve you 54 Mbps of capacity across access, backhaul and core and exit to peers? If they did this for a million customers would need 54 Tbps of capacity

Why 54 Mbps? Its an odd number since once commit rates get above 1 to 5 Mbps tend to go in nice steps

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 25-Nov-16 10:35:39
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
andrew I hope you not been serious.

They dont need to reserve it and you know that.

even leased line providers dont reserve 100% of bandwidth but they still guarantee 1:1 usage.

The guaranteed speed is probably a % of my estimated speed.

Whoever decided to offer it, probably realised it wont cost anything if at all, they simply provide enough capacity that the vast majority of the time they meet the target speed, in the event an outage or something else prevents the throughput there is probably still a small chance people will notice and even then a smaller chance someone will bother to complain and get it enforced, even if it went all the way what will sky do? maybe refund a month's subs smile

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 25-Nov-16 10:40:13)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 25-Nov-16 14:42:33
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Well leased lines sold as 10 Mbps guarantee with burst to 100 Mbps for example, are budgeted in terms of bandwidth where provider knows for sure that the 10 Mbps should never be contended.

What you describe is the old school Zen sales message of we scale network to avoid any contention on our network.

Be interesting to find out how guarantee works across the Openreach fibre segment and handover fibre e.g. only 20 people on that product on each 1 Gbps handover at £2000 install cost.

So yes being serious, if everyone is happy for ISP to say they can guarantee various speeds like this in the manner you suggest, its really no different to usual services at all.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sun 27-Nov-16 02:27:32
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
its different in that if my speed falls below 54mbit/sec sky will accept it as a fault, whilst other providers may say tough luck. I actually have it in my contract with sky this figure.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Sun 27-Nov-16 11:47:30
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
That's the difference between FTTC/P and Virgin. Virgin say if you get 2mbps then as it's up to the headline figure its tough luck
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 27-Nov-16 12:02:59
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
So is this specific to you, or something all Sky contracts have in it, be interested to see the exact wording.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Sun 27-Nov-16 17:52:21
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
So is this specific to you, or something all Sky contracts have in it, be interested to see the exact wording.


It seems to be for everyone. This is 7 c & 7e of the T & C's

(c) If we reduce the level of service provided by your chosen Product and you are materially disadvantaged by this you may give us notice that you wish to move to another Product accessible by you within 30 days of receiving our notification, or end this Contract under Condition 11(c). This condition does not apply where you lose Smart Connectivity because you no longer have a Sky Q box or the Sky Q box you were using is disabled

(e) If after your Sky Broadband is activated, you are receiving a line speed which is significantly below the speed estimate we gave you when you placed your order and we are unable to resolve any technical issues you may be having on your line you may select an alternative lower speed Product (if one is available to you). If you do this, we may charge you the difference between what you paid to activate your current Product and the amount you would have paid to activate the lower speed Product if you had signed up to it in the first place

11c says

(c) You can end this Contract without incurring early termination charges during your Minimum
Term if:
(i) Conditions 7(c), 10(b) or 11(b)(a) – (c) or 11(e) apply;
(ii) we increase your Sky Broadband Payment, unless such increase arises under
14Condition 6(c);
(iii)Condition 5(b)(ii) applies (you are moving home and the Product you are subscribing to is not available at your new Address);
(iv) we tell you that we are going to change the conditions of `The agreement for the loan of Sky Q boxes and the Sky Q hub’ that relate to the Sky Q Wireless Router and you
reasonably consider this is likely to materially disadvantage you; or we tell you that we are going to introduce a charge for Smart Connectivity under
Condition 6(h).
(d) To end this Contract under Condition 11(c)




Dont forget they also do a 30 day satisfaction guarantee

30 day Broadband and Talk Satisfaction Guarantee: Available within the first 30 days of all your services being activated. Refund applies to subscription charges only (not set-up charges or non-inclusive call charges) and is pro-rated. Statutory rights are not affected. Not applicable if you change your package.

Got this from an internal board so wanted to post it up in case.

Edited by 23Prince (Sun 27-Nov-16 17:54:00)

Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Sun 27-Nov-16 19:05:57
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Even TT Business state when you sign up

You are guaranteed a minimum download speed of 73.63Mbps. If you report your speed falling below the guaranteed minimum speed and we are unable to resolve the issue within 15 days, you have the right to cancel your contract without termination charges in line with the Ofcom Business Broadband Speeds Code of Practice.

This was mine which is in the e-mail that you get.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 27-Nov-16 19:49:29
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
Suggests a line speed guarantee - very different to what I am talking about

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 27-Nov-16 19:50:51
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
If true then means no business needs to buy a TT Ethernet line, which cost an awful lot more for the bandwidth guarantees they include

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Sun 27-Nov-16 21:20:03
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Suggests a line speed guarantee - very different to what I am talking about


Sorry I thought you were talking about if the speed goes below a certain speed then a provider will look at it as a fault and if unable to resolve the EU can terminate.

I got confused it seems, apologies
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Sun 27-Nov-16 21:20:32
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I can only go off what TTB sent to me when I signed up - And that's what it says.

if it' totally off ball then feel free to delete the posts i've made about it smile

The actual e-mail..

https://s14.postimg.org/6vjmvcnb5/ttb.jpg

Edited by 23Prince (Sun 27-Nov-16 21:26:26)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 28-Nov-16 04:48:35
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
they all get it, at least did on the pro product, I dont know if the standard packages get it.

Its very likely its an automated figure thats a set % of the estimated speed on signup.

Another thing with sky is they will honour the signup figures, they dont drop it when openreach drops the figure.

Remember from day one sky ran their network in a manner similar to aaisp, where they aim to not be the bottleneck and dont deply traffic shaping. All those years BT traffic shaped, as well as plusnet and others, sky never had any shaping. So for them to have a policy where they are confident there will be no congestion is something they wouldnt have had to do anything special for other than keep pumping out the capacity upgrades as and when needed.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 28-Nov-16 04:51:48)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 28-Nov-16 09:50:55
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
No rules broken so no deletion

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Mon 28-Nov-16 10:35:17
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
No rules broken so no deletion


Fair play - I just didn't want to go off topic too much.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Dec-16 14:10:00
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
they all get it, at least did on the pro product, I dont know if the standard packages get it.

Its very likely its an automated figure thats a set % of the estimated speed on signup.

Another thing with sky is they will honour the signup figures, they dont drop it when openreach drops the figure.


Throughput or access line speed?
Standard User watercooled
(learned) Sun 04-Dec-16 15:09:46
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Daemon66:
The fact is that having the capability for multiple FHD/UHD streams and still allowing for good gaming and even simple old web browsing at the same time is what ultra-fast broadband is all about these days. It is not about supporting people stuck in the past who want to do just one thing at a time, those people will never really need anything faster than 25mbps (well until UUHD comes along or whatever).


This is all in *your* opinion. The problem is you're assuming everyone uses their connection in the same way as you. They don't. How many times does it need explaining that this problem destroys performance of everything that uses a single download thread including software updates, downloads, VPNs (this one being particularly troublesome for businesses, with an increasing amount of people taking to the forums to complain about it) and far more. Not everyone subscribes to a 200Mb broadband package to stream Netflix all day and night believe it or not! And even then, the likes of myself (and likely everyone on the same CMTS, given every friend on the same one has the same problem) were stuck with performance so bad it was actually causing problems with streaming e.g. frequent buffering on Youtube/Twitch and causing things like Netflix to drop to the low resolution streams.

Speed is almost irrelevant for online gaming provided it's stable; a few Mb is more than enough. The problem is this problem also seems to cause high packet loss and latency spikes which *does* cause problems. Add to that the major jitter problems with the Superhub 3, which have been finally admitted by the manufacturer, but I'm not holding my breath for VM to admit to it. The depressing thing is this is yet *another* problem picked up on by the community with the ISPs denying any problems for far too long. Just because an ISP refuses to admit to a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.

So you don't have (or don't care about) the problem. Fantastic. Stop trying to trivialise the real problems other people are having. Those of us who have the option of switching likely already have, but not everyone lives in an area with both Virgin and FTTC.
Standard User Eeeps
(learned) Sun 04-Dec-16 20:03:46
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
Actually, the fact is that your broadband connection should not be limited in any way that is unexpected. It should provide the flexibility to download in all manor of means that are provided by normal mechanisms of the Internet.

This (Subject) limitation of VM DOCSIS 3 based system is not under question - there are many tests and graphs that have been posted on forums that clearly demonstrate this issue. These are not 'anecdotal' as has been suggested but real tests.

Whether the FACT that this limitation that exists on VM impacts real world usage not in question either. I would suggest that many more people are impacted by this than realise. They get a 'speedtest.net' result that shows 200Mb/s so they are happy.
Netflix doesn't buffer too much and downloading an iPlayer program in HD should take 1 hour, shouldn't it? NO. The vast majority of folks know no different. These are customers that VM want to retain.

For me this was a severe limitation - I changed to VDSL - my broadband service now gives me 75Mb/s whether or not this is provided by single or multiple 'threads'.
I can download IOS updates, windows updates, iPlayer programs, Sky+ boxsets in a quarter of the time it took on my '150Mb/s' VM service.

I'd suggest that the vast majority or people who don't know how to use a partitioned download manager are impacted by this. Anecdotally, it seems that web pages are also 'snapper' on VDLS than the lower quality DOSCSIS3 service.

Ah well, I'm happy now; just wish I'd moved two years ago - damn inertia!

Ian
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Mon 05-Dec-16 14:04:25
Print Post

Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: watercooled] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by watercooled:
This is all in *your* opinion.
Duh! Of course it is only my opinion. That's what a forum is all about.
In reply to a post by watercooled:
The problem is you're assuming everyone uses their connection in the same way as you.
Nope, that was you with your 'majority' claims.
In reply to a post by watercooled:
Stop trying to trivialise the real problems other people are having.
I'm not trying, I am stating that in my opinion they are trivial, to everyone except those who notice them that is, and since they affect only a very small number customers, no matter how much you whine on about it here, it isn't going to change unless you go to another ISP (if you can of course).
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Mon 05-Dec-16 14:47:44
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
already answered.

I cannot say for sure 100% what the intention of that policy is but I know on the pro forums sky were treating throughput below it as faults when reported.

But as you may already know, its the quality of a SLA that is of real value, whilst there is the stated guaranteed speed, there is no SLA to go with it, so if someone falls below that speed then sky dont really have to do anything other than maybe allowing to exit contract penalty free.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 05-Dec-16 14:48:02)

Standard User watercooled
(learned) Mon 05-Dec-16 14:57:26
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Daemon66:
In reply to a post by watercooled:
This is all in *your* opinion.
Duh! Of course it is only my opinion. That's what a forum is all about.

Then stop pretending it's fact.

In reply to a post by Daemon66:
In reply to a post by watercooled:
The problem is you're assuming everyone uses their connection in the same way as you.
Nope, that was you with your 'majority' claims.

I said nothing of the sort, stop putting words in my mouth. My exact claim was "achievable speeds in the majority of real downloads" - I said NOTHING about it being the majority of people.
In reply to a post by Daemon66:
In reply to a post by watercooled:
Stop trying to trivialise the real problems other people are having.
I'm not trying, I am stating that in my opinion they are trivial, to everyone except those who notice them that is, and since they affect only a very small number customers, no matter how much you whine on about it here, it isn't going to change unless you go to another ISP (if you can of course).

Grow up. Since when as complaining about a real and major technical problem on a forum constituted whining? And as I and Eeeps have explained, it is highly likely far more people are affected by this than realise it, and are having problems with poor download speeds, buffering videos etc but get fobbed off by Virgin because Speedtest looks OK.

I've been with BT for over a month now, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give up in trying to get it resolved for other people. I don't have it in for Virgin at all but I think it's a shame that would could be a potentially simple fix is hampering performance on what is a very capable network - much like the SH3 bug.
Standard User 23Prince
(committed) Mon 05-Dec-16 16:53:18
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Re: Poor single thread speed on Virgin


[re: Eeeps] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Eeeps:
Actually, the fact is that your broadband connection should not be limited in any way that is unexpected. It should provide the flexibility to download in all manor of means that are provided by normal mechanisms of the Internet.

This (Subject) limitation of VM DOCSIS 3 based system is not under question - there are many tests and graphs that have been posted on forums that clearly demonstrate this issue. These are not 'anecdotal' as has been suggested but real tests.

Whether the FACT that this limitation that exists on VM impacts real world usage not in question either. I would suggest that many more people are impacted by this than realise. They get a 'speedtest.net' result that shows 200Mb/s so they are happy.
Netflix doesn't buffer too much and downloading an iPlayer program in HD should take 1 hour, shouldn't it? NO. The vast majority of folks know no different. These are customers that VM want to retain.

For me this was a severe limitation - I changed to VDSL - my broadband service now gives me 75Mb/s whether or not this is provided by single or multiple 'threads'.
I can download IOS updates, windows updates, iPlayer programs, Sky+ boxsets in a quarter of the time it took on my '150Mb/s' VM service.

I'd suggest that the vast majority or people who don't know how to use a partitioned download manager are impacted by this. Anecdotally, it seems that web pages are also 'snapper' on VDLS than the lower quality DOSCSIS3 service.

Ah well, I'm happy now; just wish I'd moved two years ago - damn inertia!

Ian


I bought this up with VM and in the VM forums 3 years ago - and it's still being debated smile

I got sick of 2mbps as well which is why, like you I got FTTC and it's night and day. I have 2 lines I am that impressed.
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