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Standard User TMCR
(committed) Sun 26-Jun-16 15:50:57
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Tired of the silly games VM play


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I've been a customer since the early days of Bradford Cable, 20 years ago now. Time after time I've had to call the retention team to get my price sorted as the generic update system of sending a letter just puts the price up and up with a big bang every time. They manage to 'lose' any ongoing discounts and last time I was also annoyed to lose my promised BB speed upgrade through someone not giving me the right story.

Anyway, my 'loyalty' discount seems to have stopped, half-way through the current contract. Whatever happened when I renewed last November/December didn't extend or renew the discount. Yes, I do expect some sort of loyalty offer after all this time with them. If I had my way it would reduce by £1 a year!

I called retentions and I'm horrified to be told that they can only give me half the discount I had previously under 'loyalty' and to do that they would have to recalculate the entire package yet again, a new 12 month contract and putting my monthly cost up by a whopping £14 !

My existing contract runs out before the end of the year. I've declined accepting the generous offer they made and will happily dump VM as soon as I can move to a new provider. I'm sick of being messed about, why can't they see that customers are getting pee'd off with these sort of antics. No way am I going to keep losing out like this.

Edit: Is there anywhere to look to find a new ISP that offers a fixed IP address, without the £5 a month extra cost some seem to have. ?

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB

Edited by TMCR (Sun 26-Jun-16 15:58:53)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 26-Jun-16 16:07:42
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
Plusnet its a one time cost of £5 for Static IP. Not monthly.

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 since 2 Jun 14 / Sync 6th Nov: 58,280/10,784 kbps with G.INP
16 years UK broadband (Since 1999 ntl:cable trial), Asus RT-AC68U & HG612 - BQM - Flash Speedtest - HTML Speedtest
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Sun 26-Jun-16 18:11:21
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that, always worth asking as it can take ages to find these things out smile

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB


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Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Jun-16 18:22:49
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
I left VM about a month ago, mainly due to price. I was paying £43 for 150Mb and a phone (which i only had to get a discount). My mate had just broadband and was paying around £32 a month.

I asked retention why I was paying more and if i removed the phone would i save money, i was told it would cost more without the phone as I got a discount. I said that's mad and asked why others pay less for the same thing, I was told, it's an older offer/price.

They didn't seem to care I was leaving, i didn't even get offered a new price, I was just let go. Terrible company.

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Sun 26-Jun-16 23:09:29
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
Yep, this is what they're like now. Don't care about customers, just expect us to keep paying more and more. 'Customer Service' ? Rubbish...

Their shops clearly state that you can have broadband without a phone line, what they don't say is that you'll pay through the nose for it. Don't take my word for it - http://store.virginmedia.com/broadband/broadband-on-...

Then look at the same broadband speeds WITH a phone line - http://store.virginmedia.com/broadband/compare-broad...

AMAZING, it's cheaper to have broadband with a [hone line than without - how do they justify this crazy situation ? I'm not looking at the initial offer prices, but at the 'after 12 months' cost.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Jun-16 23:32:13
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, i guess they're expecting you to use it if you have it there, but i didn't even have a phone connected, not 1p was made from me having it.

All i wanted was a deal closer to what my mate paid, BT were doing £125 mastercard, £131 topcashback and although not as fast, the connection is far more stable and i find downloads/websites load quicker.

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Mon 27-Jun-16 00:14:17
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
The phone is connected, to an answering machine that plays out a message telling callers we screen all incoming calls. It stops a lot of the crud like 'your computer is affecting our internets' or 'press 5 to claim your PPI'. I can block numbers too, which is good. Only my in-laws call that line.

All our outgoing calls are via mobile phones, we've got a bundle that works out a heck of a lot cheaper than paying a connection charge of 17.5p plus 11.25p a minute to VM. I also have VOIP on either my desk at home of via my mobile, no connection charge and only 1.5p a minute daytime to UK landlines. Why do I need two bundles? It makes sense to do it on mobile as I can use that at home or on the move.

We only have the basic TV service, although they gave us a Tivo box when the last one went scatty. We have our own Freeview HD PVR so no need for cable TV, we just don't watch all the extra channels.

The only advantage seems to be speed and I really don't need 200mbps download, what I do need is upload speed to be faster and I'll get that with BT or similar fibre. I already have mobile broadband with EE and get 48 down / 24 up as I've line of sight with the mast.

I've not even started to look at cashback and incentives to move. What I do need is a static IP and that's put me off BT as they refuse to give them unless you take a business line.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 27-Jun-16 01:01:56
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
The fact i live alone, the speeds I didn't really need, I signed up for 50Mb i think it was, they upped to 100Mb then 150Mb, free, but the prices seemed to go up to. I signed up for £34.99 a month (incl line), but somehow it managed to get to near £45 last few months before i cancelled.

I can't fault the connection I had, went down once in 18 months for an hr or two.

They also have the cheek to ask their superhub back or charge £50 after 18months. Not that it's much use, but still.

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Tue 28-Jun-16 12:42:48
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
The only speed increase I've wanted was on upload, I've had to go up to the 200mbps option to get 12mbps upload. I was supposed to get a free upgrade from 100/6 to 150/10 but the guy who did my renewal swore blind that 150 down would only get 6 up and persuaded me to stick with 100. That then became fixed on my contract, the upgrade path wiped out.

I refer to their own website at https://my.virginmedia.com/traffic-management/traffi... which shows a VIVID150 product they now claim does not exist with 10mbps upload clearly stated. I can also see that 152/12 went to 200/12 so no change in upload speed on the higher tier

In order to regain my 'loyalty' discount, or rather just half of it, I would have to sign up for a new contract at £56 a month. I was paying £36.99 a month prior to the discount expiring.

Not had many issues with connection, I'll give them that, but customer service is pathetic, to say the least. Script monkeys in another country telling you to switch off and back on again - they've been watching too much TV !

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Thu 01-Sep-16 22:24:11
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
After a lot of messing about writing to their complaints people and getting a really stupid load of tosh in the response I sent email to 'Tom Mockridge'. OK, I know he'll never see it and it's the exec office who deal with it.

A lot more messing about followed with people saying they'd call me, then didn't. Spoke to a young lady who didn't seem at all interested in keeping a customer and could not grasp the concept that I was not happy with a hike in price of £18 a month and was not going to renew.

Eventually I got a call from a 'manager'. This was after a further two weeks of having to email and telephone to chase this up, despite being told twice that someone would call me 'within 48 hours'

After a bit of talking over the issues he seemed to be getting it. But, he said he couldn't do a lot for me as they've stopped giving loyalty discounts like they used to, ongoing. Now you might get a discount for 3-6 months when you renew your contract but that's about it.

I went over the fact that we have Freeview HD and our own HD PVR which I bought to replace a VHS VCR. We get all the standard Freeview channels plus some VM charge extra for, such as Vintage TV. I then went on to explain that the only people who call our VM phone number are PPI claims companies, overseas call centres and the month-in-law. I have a VOIP line already set up and working should anyone really need a 'local' number (like the mother-in-law).

We then went down that slippery path of going Broadband only. Vivid 200 is my current level. That's £45.25 a month, without phone line or TV package. I told him about the fiasco last time I renewed where the promised 'free speed upgrade' was negated because the person who dealt with me got their facts wrong so I'd been upgraded to 200 from 100 but given a rolling credit to compensate.

25 minutes of the conversation went by and eventually he agreed to put me on Vivid200 only and it would be £35.25 a month. He's also given a 12 months loyalty discount but after that I will no doubt have to do battle yet again and have to explain all this to someone who's not going to budge an inch. I had the weekend to consider it, and it didn't take that long to decide.

I did go round various other ISP's to try and get a good deal but I've not had a BT phone line for over 20 years. I was with Ionica before Virgin, they went bust in the 90's. Factoring in the cost of having a new line installed, plus 'activation' and my need to have as fixed IP (or as near as I have had from VM over the years) and get a good price that I can afford (on a pension now) I couldn't get much below £40. The packages I could get were capped upload speed or no fixed IP or went up with a bang after 12 months.

Who knows what will be available in 12 months time, I may be forced to move to a new ISP as I really don't want weeks of trying to get someone with a bit of sense to look at my account. I will have been with them 20 years in October - what price loyalty ?

Apart from a few outages of a couple of hours each time, usually at 3am, I've not had many major issues, or congestion. I get good speeds - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14727...

Just so annoying that they are terrible at communication, which is bad for a communications company...

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-Sep-16 22:41:18
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
Fixed IP is becoming slightly irrelevant with the introduction of IPv6 which is not a fixed IP.
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Thu 01-Sep-16 23:23:49
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
But until such time as ISP's like VM start using IPv6 I need some way of 'calling back to base' to my home system when I'm on the move, without having to check the IP address before I set off out someplace.

I've had the same IPv4 address since October 2013 and that's good for my purposes. OK, VM don't give a fixed IP but it's as good as providing you don't turn your hub off. It works for me anyway.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User Daemon66
(member) Fri 02-Sep-16 09:42:04
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
I suggest you have a look at a new innovation in IP (the RFC is only 19 years old) called dynamic DNS. There are even some new companies (barely 7 years old) that offer simple tools for managing it. There are also some router providers who provide their own version of the service for free.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Sep-16 11:35:57
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
Not sure if it would serve your purpose but I use Teamviewer with remote access setup to a machine, it gets me into my home LAN where I can carry out tasks.

My IP changes once every few months for whatever reason on BT.
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 11:42:42
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Daemon66] [link to this post]
 
But why work around like this ? I'm aware of Dynamic DNS and have used it elsewhere in the past. Was not a big fan back then and disliked the sub-sub domain names method.

I wasn't aware of a router being able to do similar but again it's working around when having a static IP address in the first place is the logical answer.

Maybe you've moved on but a lot of people I deal with have not and a numeric IP address plus port number is what I need in order to do things here.

Thanks for the suggestions but it does not solve my issues with VM.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 11:44:46
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Yep - I use Teamviewer for one particular situation and it works reasonably well but isn't an answer for certain things I need to do here. The static IP address is only a small part of the overall issue.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 11:57:16
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
I know I've replied to my own post...That's because this message isn't for any particular person who has read or replied to my update.

For many many reasons I'm staying with VM for the next 12 months, who knows what will happen after that. It seems the topic went off on a tangent over the IP address part and I appreciate the suggestions, it's just that they don't do what I need to do.

To explain, I am disabled and stuck at home a lot. I fill the time by doing (a lot of) volunteer work for Community and Internet radio stations. Their servers require a connection to my system that is static. I've used my VM IP address happily for this, it's not changed in years as the superhub is 'always on'.

My main complaint is that VM just don't seem to care any more. They seem OK with a long-standing customer leaving rather than even trying to retain them. It seems so wrong that they have that attitude through most of the chain of 'customer service'. It took so long to sort out several issues that were caused by a new contract being set up late last year that I really don't want to have to go through all that again.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 13:36:29
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
The way I see it is Y'all play a "silly game"

Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. VM ends up losing money hand over fist to keep their churm rate low.

On ISPs like Zen and AAISP where everyone pays the same price they never seem to have this problem, or if they do it's never spoken of.

Just saying.
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 13:39:49
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Not sure if it would serve your purpose but I use Teamviewer with remote access setup to a machine, it gets me into my home LAN where I can carry out tasks.

My IP changes once every few months for whatever reason on BT.


based on the fact the IP address does not matter to TV as it's all done on computer ID and password - I think that's a good idea for them smile

I use it too.
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 13:41:44
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
My main complaint is that VM just don't seem to care any more.


For me it all ties in with when the Americans bought them - and for me that alone is a reason NOT to touch them with a bargepole.
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Sep-16 15:12:53
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
Yes, I do expect some sort of loyalty offer after all this time with them. If I had my way it would reduce by £1 a year!
Why? Their costs aren't falling. If you're getting what you are paying for why do you expect a discount? Do you go into Tesco and expect them to reduce the cost of a pint of milk on the grounds that you buy it every week?

I'm no fan of VM (can't even get cable) but I've never understood why people think they should get a discount simply for continuing to use a particular service or product. It makes no sense to me.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 15:51:55
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Why? Their costs aren't falling. If you're getting what you are paying for why do you expect a discount?

No? I disagree Andrue. Their profits are rising - up 38% last year, based on price hikes that I personally feel are too much, and have felt that for several years. The say they will give a 'free' speed boost but then clobber the customers with a price rise.
(soure: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/16/virgin...

People who swap ISP's as often as their socks invoke admin and materials costs each time, new routers, engineer visits to install, contracts to raise and accounts to add to computer systems etc. On top of the sales person's time and effort gaining that customer. Yet new customers get a discounted service in the first year then hop off to the next discounted 12 month contract.

A loyal customer does not need new equipment every year, or a new account setting up, therefore the ongoing cost is less to the supplier. It would make good business sense to reward such customers.

In reply to a post by Andrue:
I'm no fan of VM (can't even get cable) but I've never understood why people think they should get a discount simply for continuing to use a particular service or product. It makes no sense to me.

It is called loyalty. Something you've obviously not come across as it makes perfect sense to me.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 15:54:21
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
The way I see it is Y'all play a "silly game"

Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. VM ends up losing money hand over fist to keep their churm rate low.

On ISPs like Zen and AAISP where everyone pays the same price they never seem to have this problem, or if they do it's never spoken of.

Just saying.

See my answer to Andrue. VM are NOT losing money, they have massive profits due to overcharging (IMHO) And it's not just VM who have a retentions team.

If you're happy paying higher prices to use Zen & AA then I'm happy for you...

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 15:55:46
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
In reply to a post by TMCR:
My main complaint is that VM just don't seem to care any more.


For me it all ties in with when the Americans bought them - and for me that alone is a reason NOT to touch them with a bargepole.


You could say that for a heck of a lot of companies... It's no excuse for having appalling customer service though.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 16:33:19
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
The way I see it is Y'all play a "silly game"

Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. Price rise >Retentions deal. VM ends up losing money hand over fist to keep their churm rate low.

On ISPs like Zen and AAISP where everyone pays the same price they never seem to have this problem, or if they do it's never spoken of.

Just saying.

See my answer to Andrue. VM are NOT losing money, they have massive profits due to overcharging (IMHO) And it's not just VM who have a retentions team.

If you're happy paying higher prices to use Zen & AA then I'm happy for you...


I pay for neither - they were just examples.

You seem very defensive of the ISP you started a thread on to basically slate. Was it a case of they wouldn't give you money off and now they have the sun shines out of them? Loyalty means nothing in this day and age, Something you've obviously not come across.

If you wish to pay for VM then I am happy for you too - I can assure you that even VM's basic 50mbps package is way WAY more than I pay, and that's an everyday standard price, No reductions, no discounts, no silly gift cards.

Like I said, Loyalty means jack.
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 16:37:37
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
In reply to a post by TMCR:
My main complaint is that VM just don't seem to care any more.


For me it all ties in with when the Americans bought them - and for me that alone is a reason NOT to touch them with a bargepole.


You could say that for a heck of a lot of companies... It's no excuse for having appalling customer service though.


I can and I agree - however I convey my view by whoever gets my money - and anyone with an overseas call centre (or run by americans) does not.

I admit this is getting smaller and smaller, but still there is always going to be options.

Getting told to F off by Three's overseas tech support sort of nailed it in the coffin for me. And that was by a tech support agent who had no idea how to troubleshoot.

Edited by 23Prince (Fri 02-Sep-16 16:38:15)

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 18:16:44
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 23Prince:
You seem very defensive of the ISP you started a thread on to basically slate.

No, I was simply going over the fact that VM have made massive profits out of their customers, myself included. No sun shining out of anywhere, all the ISP's I went through are as bad in that respect.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Sep-16 20:55:03
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
No, I was simply going over the fact that VM have made massive profits out of their customers, myself included. No sun shining out of anywhere, all the ISP's I went through are as bad in that respect.


As far as I'm aware VM have made no profit in the grand scheme, due to the enormous losses they have incurred over the years. They only started breaking even relatively recently. They are making some money now but the huge deferred losses are going to take a while to cover.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 02-Sep-16 21:48:40
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
One thing you dont seem to grasp tho, by giving you the discount, someone else is paying extra to subsidise your service, where would these profits go if "everyone" paid the same price as you?

This is one thing I have always hated about VM that they give in to people like you, You should have been told to take a hike if you didnt want to pay the going rate, but as has been said they prepared to lose money on you so the churn figures look good.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 02-Sep-16 21:49:24)

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Fri 02-Sep-16 22:57:02
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
One thing you dont seem to grasp tho, by giving you the discount, someone else is paying extra to subsidise your service, where would these profits go if "everyone" paid the same price as you?

So the people who sign up for a year, get all the new kit, installation, new account and so on AND at a whopping discount are where VM makes it's profit?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
This is one thing I have always hated about VM that they give in to people like you, You should have been told to take a hike if you didnt want to pay the going rate, but as has been said they prepared to lose money on you so the churn figures look good.

Nope, to be able to cut my price down I had to chop out services - phone and TV are no more with VM, despite having had them for 20 years. No matter what you say, I'm still going to be subsidising those who only want the cheapest deals and will drop VM like a stone once their discounted year ends.
If VM had not have hiked the prices up year upon year I wouldn't be telling them I'm paying too much for what I get. It's not just VM who offer retentions deals either. Had they told me to take a hike I was quite prepared to.
They are not prepared to offer me the same discounted prices they offer new customers, so who's paying the extra ??

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User carl9199
(newbie) Fri 02-Sep-16 23:30:59
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Fixed IP is becoming slightly irrelevant with the introduction of IPv6 which is not a fixed IP.

I have a static ipv6 as well as a ipv4 address with IDNet.
Standard User knicol46
(learned) Sat 03-Sep-16 09:05:37
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
I recently phoned Virgin Media customer services. It reminded me why I left them over 5 years ago.
Standard User 23Prince
(newbie) Sat 03-Sep-16 10:48:06
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
One thing you dont seem to grasp tho, by giving you the discount, someone else is paying extra to subsidise your service, where would these profits go if "everyone" paid the same price as you?

This is one thing I have always hated about VM that they give in to people like you, You should have been told to take a hike if you didnt want to pay the going rate, but as has been said they prepared to lose money on you so the churn figures look good.


Finally, 2 people (you and Ignition) who speak sense!

I always thought too it was granny using her 50mbps to check e-mail that subsidised people who get discounts (and download lots)

Edited by 23Prince (Sat 03-Sep-16 10:49:16)

Standard User mpellatt
(member) Sat 10-Sep-16 08:16:15
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
As far as I'm aware VM have made no profit in the grand scheme, due to the enormous losses they have incurred over the years


I think you'll find it's mostly shareholders and bondholders who have lost money over the years through the various sales and restructurings in the UK cable biz. VM as it stands today is definitely profitable
Standard User mpellatt
(member) Sat 10-Sep-16 08:26:51
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
This is one thing I have always hated about VM that they give in to people like you, You should have been told to take a hike if you didnt want to pay the going rate, but as has been said they prepared to lose money on you so the churn figures look good.


I don't care if a supplier "gives in" to me or anyone else if I/they seek to negotiate a better deal than the one initially on offer at the end of a contract period. How they choose to run their business is no concern of mine unless I'm a shareholder (or employee). As a customer all I want is the best price/quality of service point I can negotiate.

In the communications business, this can be greatly assisted by the market sector using churn rate as one of its KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), so hit them at a time when they need to improve that, and your negotiation will be easier.

Simples.
Standard User 23Prince
(regular) Sat 10-Sep-16 15:53:51
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: mpellatt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mpellatt:
As far as I'm aware VM have made no profit in the grand scheme, due to the enormous losses they have incurred over the years


I think you'll find it's mostly shareholders and bondholders who have lost money over the years through the various sales and restructurings in the UK cable biz. VM as it stands today is definitely profitable


You really need to make sure you are factually correct 1000% or else, as his reputation shows, He will destroy you with his answer.

So good luck.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Sep-16 16:55:13
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: mpellatt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mpellatt:
VM as it stands today is definitely profitable

Is that profit going to service the structural debt (network build from the 1990s) or back into investment, or as dividends to Liberty Global's shareholders?

plusnet unlimited fibre 80/20 since 2 Jun 14 - Sync as of 7th Aug 16: 55,355/10,291 kbps with G.INP
17 years of UK broadband since 1999 ntl:cable modem trial -Router: Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM
Standard User 23Prince
(regular) Mon 12-Sep-16 11:13:57
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by mpellatt:
VM as it stands today is definitely profitable

Is that profit going to service the structural debt (network build from the 1990s) or back into investment, or as dividends to Liberty Global's shareholders?


My area struggled at the 100 stage, giving it 300 just flatlined it - so more than likely share holders and yankees
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Mon 12-Sep-16 12:47:40
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Is that profit going to service the structural debt (network build from the 1990s) or back into investment, or as dividends to Liberty Global's shareholders?


Kinda all the above, however the debt from the initial network build is largely gone due to debt for equity swaps.

It's going into servicing the company's current debt, network rebuild, upgrades and the Project Lightning new build, along with some being returned to the LGI group to cover that group's debt and expenses.

As far as I'm aware LGI aren't paying dividends right now and the group as a whole is not profitable.
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 12-Sep-16 14:02:54
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TMCR:
A loyal customer does not need new equipment every year, or a new account setting up, therefore the ongoing cost is less to the supplier. It would make good business sense to reward such customers.
No - it's likely that the initial year is run at a loss so as to attract new custom. The CPs hope to claw back the difference and get to profit in subsequent years. There's not many services where you get a discount for staying on. Those that do exist such as insurance products are usually discounts for not making use of the service which is not the same thing.

What you got was an introductory offer and after the first year you are paying for the service you are getting. Expecting discount after discount makes no sense to me since it effectively means the service cannot be priced. Or at least you never pay the price advertised which is equally daft.

If you want to chop and change then you are free to do so and you can save money. You might (or might not) care that you are doing it at the expense of those who don't change as often.

I'm not objecting to you wanting to 'live' on introductory offers. Nor am I interested in debating the merits or otherwise of VM since I don't live in a cabled area and doubt I'd go with them if I did. I'm just puzzled as to what life experience has led you to the point where you expect to get a loyalty discount. Maybe I've been buying the wrong services from the wrong places but at nearly fifty years old I have yet to encounter any business that reliably and consistently does what you claim to be expecting. It seems to me that this expectation of yours is just going to cause you angst and grief because it's unrealistic.

VM are not making huge profits. Until a couple of years they'd never made a profit. Even now most of their 'profits' are being ploughed into network expansion. Being an ISP has never been a hugely profitable endeavour. The idea that any ISP in the UK is making vast sums of money by overcharging its customers is just wrong.

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Mon 12-Sep-16 14:12:58)

Standard User TMCR
(committed) Mon 12-Sep-16 14:34:28
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by TMCR:
A loyal customer does not need new equipment every year, or a new account setting up, therefore the ongoing cost is less to the supplier. It would make good business sense to reward such customers.
No - it's likely that the initial year is run at a loss so as to attract new custom. The CPs hope to claw back the difference and get to profit in subsequent years. There's not many services where you get a discount for staying on. Those that do exist such as insurance products are usually discounts for not making use of the service which is not the same thing.

What you got was an introductory offer and after the first year you are paying for the service you are getting. Expecting discount after discount makes no sense to me since it effectively means the service cannot be priced. Or at least you never pay the price advertised which is equally daft.

If you want to chop and change then you are free to do so and you can save money. You might (or might not) care that you are doing it at the expense of those who don't change as often.

I'm not objecting to you wanting to 'live' on introductory offers. Nor am I interested in debating the merits or otherwise of VM since I don't live in a cabled area and doubt I'd go with them if I did. I'm just puzzled as to what life experience has led you to the point where you expect to get a loyalty discount. Maybe I've been buying the wrong services from the wrong places but at nearly fifty years old I have yet to encounter any business that reliably and consistently does what you claim to be expecting. It seems to me that this expectation of yours is just going to cause you angst and grief because it's unrealistic.

VM are not making huge profits. Until a couple of years they'd never made a profit. Even now most of their 'profits' are being ploughed into network expansion. Being an ISP has never been a hugely profitable endeavour. The idea that any ISP in the UK is making vast sums of money by overcharging its customers is just wrong.


If you look back to the first post in this thread, I stated that I had been a customer for 20 years. Back then there were no introductory offers and I've not chopped and changed ISP's at all. What I will agree with is that doing so is at the expense of those who don't change as often, which is a point I made. "...the initial year is run at a loss so as to attract new custom" is probably correct for those joining in more recent times.

Because of the sheer length of time I've been with them I would expect some 'loyalty' consideration, if only to provide good customer service, the very reason why I was frustrated with them. The main reason for starting this thread was that they had taken off an ongoing 'loyalty' discount that should have remained in place. It seems that their people make up the rules as they go along as it was supposed to be a 12 month discount, then got chopped after 7 months. The next person I spoke to said it would only last 6 months, another suggested as low as 3 months. In other words, they don't have the foggiest.

Virgin Cable (200/12) + EE Mobile BB
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 13-Sep-16 21:50:08
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
retention giveaways usually last as long as the recontract period at the most. They limit it as obviously they hope you forget and eventually pay the proper price. To give a lifetime loyalty discount at a rate that is losing money is just bonkers.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
Standard User 23Prince
(regular) Fri 16-Sep-16 09:31:57
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
retention giveaways usually last as long as the recontract period at the most. They limit it as obviously they hope you forget and eventually pay the proper price. To give a lifetime loyalty discount at a rate that is losing money is just bonkers.


Hence the constant Price rises, which is a shame.

In retrospect - AAISP just lowered their prices, they've never done any form of tiered pricing or new customer [censored].

Everyone should be like that IMO
Standard User buggs01
(newbie) Fri 14-Oct-16 17:48:24
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: TMCR] [link to this post]
 
For anyone that's with Virgin Media and are sick and tired of regular prices hikes or their poor service and unreliable speeds/high Utilisation there's a petition to that's been set up to try and get some justice for customers.

Petition: https://www.change.org/p/stop-virgin-media-dodgy-tra...

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/stopvirginmedia
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 15-Oct-16 10:58:42
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Re: Tired of the silly games VM play


[re: buggs01] [link to this post]
 
Not a VM customer but will sign as I agree with the utilisation part of the petition. They are blatant misselling in those areas.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4 BQM - IPv6
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