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Standard User kebabselector
(member) Thu 11-Aug-16 17:16:31
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Re: Line Rental


[re: cscsonline] [link to this post]
 
Virgin charge what they can get away with. Bundles appear to offer better value - providing you want the extra features (TV, phone etc).

Virgin in my area are the only option for fibre, so if you want speed you have to put up with their prices. Market forces may drive down the costs without line rental, but as I said they charge what they can, because no one can stop them.

To go back to your original point, you actually resent being forced for pay for a phone service you don't need. Any connection to your house is a line, somewhere along the way you have to pay for the delivery infrastructure.

Current on Zen, getting around 5mb down - .8mb up
Exchange is Fibre enabled, Cab not economically viable to upgrade - though 'Now Exploring Solutions aka we want someone else to pay for it.'
Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 50 - small cabinet of fail

Edited by kebabselector (Thu 11-Aug-16 17:20:33)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 11-Aug-16 18:02:59
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Re: Line Rental


[re: cscsonline] [link to this post]
 
It is not that simplistic.

Line rental commonly covers the costs of ensuring that cable, whether it be virginmedia or openreach is maintained and the network kept in operation.

In that respect a cable comes to your house, and that cable needs to be in a working function.

virginmedia offer broadband only, but if you notice the monthly charge is far higher at £32.25 a month for broadband only.

Comparatively broadband & phone is £12 for broadband + £17.99 line rental.

To deliver broadband only, the provider must still provide a line to the house, and ensure upkeep of this line. Also, the providers forego any profits that may be achieved via the landline, e.g. customer dials mobiles, chargeable numbers etc. Since a large proportion of profits come from customers making chargeable calls on the landline, often times, it is the case that a broadband only package is indeed more expensive, since maintenance of the line is required either way & no chargeable calls will ever be made, so a small premium needs to be added to compensate for profits which usually are made by the calling plan.

Hence, it will never make sense for a provider to provide broadband only without charging line rental. All that will happen is the line rental gets absorbed into the total cost, like we see, virginmedia broadband only is £32.25 and vodafones deals are a similar price to line rental + broadband. Here you have effectively bundled up the charges into one price seen to the consumer.

In fact, it makes sense to charge a premium for broadband only services, as no extra charges will be made if the service is unlimited. Hence why often bundled services bring down the cost of the broadband aspect.
Standard User cscsonline
(regular) Thu 11-Aug-16 18:07:01
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Re: Line Rental


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for a good explanation.

cscsonline on an MacBook Pro using
Virgin Media 200Mbps
Formerly on BT Infinity 2, O2 Premium, Be Unlimited, Zen 8000 Active
BTBroadband


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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 11-Aug-16 19:43:34
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Re: Line Rental


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
To deliver broadband only, the provider must still provide a line to the house, and ensure upkeep of this line. Also, the providers forego any profits that may be achieved via the landline, e.g. customer dials mobiles, chargeable numbers etc.

As well as any revenue from calls originated by the subscriber, providers get a small amount of revenue for terminating calls from other providers. It's a small amount of money, but greater than zero.

As you rightly say, the main bulk of the "line rental" that many broadband customers claim to resent paying is going towards the physical infrastructure costs which have to be covered whether or not the package includes voice service. The proportion of the monthly cost that goes to providing voice service over that physical infrastructure is small at most and might be negative if the revenue the provider makes from voice service exceeds the costs of providing that service. This is why there has been no great rush to offer 'naked' broadband with no voice service.

It is unlikely there will be significant cost savings available in the future for those wishing to drop voice service on fixed-line broadband. If and when SOGEA becomes commercially available, if Openreach pass on the savings of not providing and maintaining an E side pair then it is possible we will see 'no voice' FTTC services that are slightly cheaper than packages with voice included. Even so, I don't think the saving over current voice plus broadband packages will be that much.



ZeN Unlimited Fibre 2 with native IPv6
thinkbroadband speed test : speedtest.net : thinkbroadband quality monitor IPv4 IPv6
Standard User foxuk
(learned) Fri 12-Aug-16 11:01:54
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Re: Line Rental


[re: cscsonline] [link to this post]
 
The only way to compare price is by comparing the total cost of what you want from different suppliers.

If you don't need television Virgin broadband only PLUS most VOIPs works out the cheapest.

Line rental is an historic charge for having a phone not using it. It costs as much to service a line when it is not being used as when it is so there was a basic charge. With 'free calls' it has become more relevant.

At the moment (soon to be changed) if you use BBC iPlayer and other catch-up services you don't need a TV licence - that's £145 off the cost in addition to other savings. This may only apply to iPlayer but that is not clear at present - it would seem a bit naughty if a licence was needed to use Amazon Prime.

All businesses will base their price on 'What the Market will Bear'. The cost of production and/or delivery has nothing to do with the price charged in a competitive marketplace. It is only relevant to whether a company will supply a product or not. That's why some businesses have higher share values than others - they make more money.

Jon
Standard User TheEulerID
(experienced) Fri 12-Aug-16 12:22:51
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Re: Line Rental


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
That's very well explained. What many people don't seem to understand is that call revenue was part of the income stream that helped fund the package (and it's a service that cost virtually nothing to provide on modern MSANs). As call revenue declines (and removing the voice capability entirely takes that to the extreme), then much the same costs have to be recovered from the BB element only.

We are going to see the same thing when SOGEA starts being used. That will allow ISPs to offer BB without voice, but the costs are not going to be very different at all. At the OR level much the same physical infrastructure costs have to be recovered (except, maybe as "spares" for bad E-side pairs). The passive infrastructure is still there, and there's no meaningful way any part of the E-side copper can be recovered.; The business rates won't change. The workforce won't change.

At the ISP level they lose call revenue (unless they offer voice via SOGEA). The one thing that will be save is that of the exchange-based MSAN port.
Standard User cscsonline
(regular) Fri 12-Aug-16 12:24:49
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Re: Line Rental


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to those that explained more about line rental than I knew. I shall not complain about it any longer.

cscsonline on an MacBook Pro using
Virgin Media 200Mbps
Formerly on BT Infinity 2, O2 Premium, Be Unlimited, Zen 8000 Active
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Aug-16 14:15:15
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Re: Line Rental


[re: cscsonline] [link to this post]
 
Just to add to what I said earlier, you often see providers offering "Free" broadband where you just pay for line rental. Companies such as talktalk, sky etc.

Here, the provider is banking that on average their customers will make enough chargeable calls to cover the cost of broadband provision.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 12-Aug-16 16:59:49
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Re: Line Rental


[re: kebabselector] [link to this post]
 
Of course one option with decent fast broadband is cord cutting, and go for a mix of iPlayer, 4oD, itv Hub, Netflix, now TV subscriptions etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kebabselector
(member) Sat 13-Aug-16 10:52:32
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Re: Line Rental


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'm attempting that on ADSL - works until my kids are online!!!

Current on Zen, getting around 5mb down - .8mb up
Exchange is Fibre enabled, Cab not economically viable to upgrade - though 'Now Exploring Solutions aka we want someone else to pay for it.'
Stechford (CMSTE) Cab 50 - small cabinet of fail
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