Superfast 2 Vectoring

To cut a long story short my sync speed dropped from 80/20 to 62/20 suddenly a few weeks ago.

I have tried two other all-in-one modem/routers and it's still the same.

As opposed to the vodafone supplied router which has virtually no useful stats, the TP-Link and Zyxel both indicate that Vectoring is Not enabled.

I'm guessing that's the problem? I assume that's enable by your isp in your profile with them?
Please would anyone know about this?

Vectoring, if enabled on your line, will be being done at DSLAM level by Openreach.

Vectoring isn�t enabled by default on most lines.

Can you provide the other stats please, I suspect your guess at the cause for the drop in speed lies elsewhere.

When are BT going to deploy vectoring?

Pretty much already had it in VDSL.

Apart from that G.fast.

Many thanks for the info @Zarjaz

Here are some stats from when I had the TP-Link router connected: -

tigger@tigger:~$ telnet 192.168.1.1
Trying 192.168.1.1...
Connected to 192.168.1.1.
Escape character is '^]'.

username:admin
password:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome To Use TP-LINK COMMAND-LINE Interface Model.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TP-LINK(conf)#adsl

adsl show info

adsl show status
cmd:SUCC
TP-LINK(conf)#adsl show status

INDEX=1
{
enable=1
status=Up
dataPath=
lineNumber=0
lineEncoding=
modulationType=VDSL2
interleaveDepth=0
X_TP_AnnexType=Annex A/L
}
cmd:SUCC
TP-LINK(conf)#
tigger@tigger:~$ telnet 192.168.1.1
Trying 192.168.1.1...
Connected to 192.168.1.1.
Escape character is '^]'.

username:admin
password:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome To Use TP-LINK COMMAND-LINE Interface Model.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TP-LINK(conf)#adsl

adsl show info

adsl show status
cmd:SUCC
TP-LINK(conf)#adsl show info

INDEX=1
{
enable=1
X_TP_DisableAELEM=0
status=Up
linkEncapsulationRequested=
linkEncapsulationUsed=G.993.2_Annex_K_PTM
modulationType=VDSL2
lineEncoding=
allowedProfiles=8a,8b,8c,8d,12a,12b,17a,30a
currentProfile=17a
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8b=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8c=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_8d=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_12a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_12b=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_17a=1
X_TP_VDSLProfiles_30a=0
dataPath=
interleaveDepth=0
lineNumber=0
upstreamCurrRate=20000
downstreamCurrRate=62329
upstreamMaxRate=23564
downstreamMaxRate=75242
upstreamNoiseMargin=68
downstreamNoiseMargin=63
upstreamAttenuation=179
downstreamAttenuation=95
upstreamPower=35
downstreamPower=36
usNegBandPlanDiscPresentation=3
dsNegBandPlanDiscPresentation=3
SATNus=1,177,278,1023,1023
SATNds=123,219,354,1023,1023
LATNus=2,179,279,1023,1023
LATNds=95,221,354,1023,1023
SNRMarginus=68,71,67,-512,-512
SNRMarginds=62,63,62,-512,-512
transmitPowerUs=-67,-299,31,-1281,-1281
transmitPowerDs=101,74,74,-1281,-1281
ATURVendor=
ATURCountry=
ATUCVendor=
ATUCCountry=
totalStart=92279
showtimeStart=92253
quarterHourStart=0
X_TP_Bitswap=On
X_TP_SRA=Off
X_TP_AdslModulationCfg=Multimode
X_TP_AnnexType=Annex A/L
X_TP_SupportAdslMode=VDSL2:A;T1.413:A;G.lite:A;G.dmt:A;ADSL2:A,A/L;ADSL2+:A,M,A/L/M;Auto Sync-up:A,A/L,M,A/L/M
}
cmd:SUCC
TP-LINK(conf)#

P.S.

The following was from when the Zyxel router was connected: -

DSL Modulation Type:VDSL2

Annex Type:Annex A/L

Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (Kbps) 20000 62329
Max Rate (Kbps) 23512 75161
SNR Margin (dB) 6.8 6.3
Line Attenuation (dB) 17.9 9.5
Errors (Pkts) 0 0

Is Vectoring automatic with DLM for example with DSLAM level by Openreach?

Or can the isp do that?

I know the isp can reset the DLM without an Openreach visit. And maybe more.

In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:

Is Vectoring automatic with DLM for example with DSLAM level by Openreach?

Or can the isp do that?

I know the isp can reset the DLM without an Openreach visit. And maybe more.

Vectoring is nothing to do with DLM.

Don't really understand what you are asking but vectoring is extremely rare on UK FTTC lines. A few BDUK provisions in rural areas where there were long D-side lines had vectoring enabled to enable speed requirements to be achieved (only 25Mbps I think). Otherwise it has not been activated by Openreach and ISP's can not do anything to enable it.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Don't really understand what you are asking but vectoring is extremely rare on UK FTTC lines. A few BDUK provisions in rural areas where there were long D-side lines had vectoring enabled to enable speed requirements to be achieved (only 25Mbps I think). Otherwise it has not been activated by Openreach and ISP's can not do anything to enable it.

Many thanks for the info. I was reading this among other things: - https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/how-fa...

So if I assume vectoring isn't available on my street cabinet only approx 200m away, could crosstalk from one more subscriber make it fall from 80/20 to 62/20 overnight ?

If you are unlucky that is possible, it all depends on the location of your line pair in the cable bundle from the cabinet, if a new VDSL connection in close proximity to your line in the cable is activated then a substantial drop due to crosstalk is likely. I have seen reports of a 50% reduction in speed but that is rare. it would be so much better if vectoring was enabled on all cabinets but it costs money so is not going to happen.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

If you are unlucky that is possible,

Many thanks for the info Realalemadrid.
I'll get a another vdsl line installed from another isp and some load balancing kit.
that way I should be able to compare the two lines too maybe as well.

And if the issue is cross talk getting another line installed for comparison purposes may slow your connection speed even more.

Yes indeed MrSaffron. My thinking is though, please tell me if i'm wrong, going by the impacted handback threshold on my street cabinet of 52.4 Mbit/s. and I'm getting speed quotes for a brand new line of 59.1 to 80. Using this as a guide only of course, 2 x 52.4 is 104.8. Even 2 x 40 is 80.
Much better than 62, which could or is highly likely slow further with more subscribers from whats been said.
Also current vdsl line is with voda, so the throughput is currently rubbish constantly too, no matter what time of day or night too. That should be fixed by switching that one to another provider in November.

yes 2 x 40 is better than what you have now, but load balancing is not going to give you access to 80 Mbps for one download. You need much more expensive line bonding to really get the higher speeds.

Impacted handback does not guarantee the speeds of course, it just means the point at which ISP will listen and let you walk from contract if need be, nothing about them rearranging all the wiring in an area to get your speeds back up to the guarantee.

Many thanks for the info MrSaffron. How much more would that be?

Bonding to work properly needs co-operation from the ISP so looking at someone like AAISP and their Firebrick solution,

Hardware pricing on https://www.firebrick.co.uk/fb2900/

Why have BT not enabled vectoring across their cabs?

Many thanks for that MrSaffron...

I'll look into that....

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

Why have BT not enabled vectoring across their cabs?

If it was easy they would have done it.

I've been told for ECI fibre cabinets (currently model M41) they would really need to replace them with ECI model V41 cabinets like what are used in Germany which they are never going to do.

Also there are a lot of twin cabinets now, and Vectoring doesn't work across multiple cabinets, and if it does it will no doubt need more modifications and expense.

Also with lots of third party modems or even old Openreach ones without vectoring support there is a storm of pain to handle.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Also there are a lot of twin cabinets now, and Vectoring doesn't work across multiple cabinets, and if it does it will no doubt need more modifications and expense.

Vectoring can be done across 2 large Huawei cabinets. Not sure if the smaller Huawei cabinets can do this.

Many of the twin DSLAM sites are a mix of ECI/Huawei so enabling Vectoring on the Huawei would be costly and inefficient.

I think I know whats happened now with my 80/20 connection dropping to 62/20.

I did a lot of research before I switched from virgin cable to FTTC on a BT line.

Before and after I first switched to FTTC I would be and was connected to a cabinet only approx. 200m away.

Now when I investigate, I am connected to a cabinet an absolute minimum of 450m away, depending where the wires run. I have no proof, because I didn't save the information before from the first cabinet.

Could the extra 250m to 300m or what ever make this difference? It did happen overnight. Well not exactly overnight, within a day or two of me actually checking what the sync rate was maybe.

Edited by mrmarktigger (Sun 22-Sep-19 22:19:28)

In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:

was connected to a cabinet only approx. 200m away.

Now when I investigate, I am connected to a cabinet an absolute minimum of 450m away

Are you saying you think your line has been moved from one cab to another? I think its very unlikely and not easy to do and why would they do it.

Yes, I thought it was unlikely until I checked. However, it also explains a drop from a sync of 80/20 to 62/20 suddenly. Unless you have another idea?

In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:

Yes, I thought it was unlikely until I checked. However, it also explains a drop from a sync of 80/20 to 62/20 suddenly. Unless you have another idea?

Did you check using the BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER? The BT database records are not always totally reliable.

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 22-Sep-19 23:54:31)

In reply to a post by mrmarktigger:

Yes

Sadly in life some things are never explained. I could simply say crosstalk but I would be guessing.

Don't underestimate the amount of work required to do what you're saying so they would need a good reason to do it.

It would require a different bar pair in the exchange so it appears on a different E side in a different PCP, then they would have to moved your D side to that different PCP that's further away (this could mean digging up roads or installing additional telephone poles) and then connect your broadband to its DSLAM, this would be highly irregular.

Given an exchange and cabinet number and time to dig into history can find out if there was changes, though the 99.999% that I recall are moves that shorten line lengths.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Given an exchange and cabinet number and time to dig into history can find out if there was changes, though the 99.999% that I recall are moves that shorten line lengths.

If you can look back in history (lines being moved from one cab to another and it not being done as an infill move) then you need to be knighted

Sometimes can see things, depends on what I've tracked in terms of changes since 2012

For an individual would not got the full hog of restoring an old database backup, which some changes might require.