HT801: only for forwarding VoIP calls to non-VoIP number?

I have Hyperoptic broadband (1Gbps) and use the Hyperoptic VoIP service built into the Hyperoptic Hub for my landline.

Until recently I had a DECT phone connected to the Hyperoptic Hub, but a power surge killed the DECT base station so I've now configured the Hyperoptic VoIP service to forward all incoming "landline" calls to my mobile telephone, and this actually works really well to the extent that I don't plan on replacing the analog phone.

However for unrelated reasons I'm now thinking about replacing the Hyperoptic Hub with a third party router, but not all of the third party routers I'm considering support VoIP functionality.

So my question is this: would a Grandstream HT801 (while using the Hyperoptic VoIP server) be able to unconditionally forward incoming "landline" (VoIP) calls to my mobile phone, exactly as the Hyperoptic Hub already does - ie. with caller id etc.? There would not be an analog phone connected to the HT801 - it just needs to forward the incoming call straight to a mobile number.

As a solution I suppose this might be overkill - perhaps a software client on a Raspberry Pi would work just as well, but to be honest I really want something that works out of the box with minimal fuss!

Thanks in advance!

Where is the forwarding actually done?

Is it in the hub? Or on the VOIP providers server?

To be honest I'm not entirely sure - I had assumed the Hyperoptic Hub performed the forwarding function (note: I'm a VoIP novice which is another reason why I want an out of the box solution!)

Tomorrow (Saturday, as it's too late now!) I'll power off the Hyperoptic Hub and place calls to the landline number to see if they still come through to my mobile number.

If the landline calls continue to be diverted to my mobile phone without a Hub then the call forwarding must be being handled by the Hyperoptic SIP server which would mean an ATA may be unnecessary - I'd only need the Hyperoptic Hub should I ever need to reconfigure the server settings.

However, without a Hub (and therefore without a client) could my SIP registration to the Hyperoptic server eventually timeout? The Hub settings page for the VoIP service mentions a "Registration interval" of 3600 seconds. So maybe I'll be logged out after 1 hour and no further calls will be forwarded...?

Any call forwarding will be done on their SIP server, rather then the endpoint (customer router).

I know, the idea was to make the OP think about it; which has happened.

Do you know your registration details for your Hyperoptic VOIP service, or if not will Hyperoptic tell you these details?

There are apps like Csipsimple which will run on Android mobile phones and which can register with VOIP providers.

Some VOIP services such as Sipgate allow you to have more than one device registered and ring both phones. Otheres such as Voipfone don't allow this. You could ask Hyperoptic what they do.

In reply to a post by Milhouse:

However, without a Hub (and therefore without a client) could my SIP registration to the Hyperoptic server eventually timeout? The Hub settings page for the VoIP service mentions a "Registration interval" of 3600 seconds. So maybe I'll be logged out after 1 hour and no further calls will be forwarded...?

The registration interval is how often a device tries to re-register rather than what the service provider does. If a device does not reply to an incoming call, I would expect the service provider to follow its procedure for phone not answered.

In reply to a post by Milhouse:

So my question is this: would a Grandstream HT801 (while using the Hyperoptic VoIP server) be able to unconditionally forward incoming "landline" (VoIP) calls to my mobile phone, exactly as the Hyperoptic Hub already does - ie. with caller id etc.? There would not be an analog phone connected to the HT801 - it just needs to forward the incoming call straight to a mobile number.

Check. But looks doubtful…

https://www.hyperoptic.com/faq/posts/connecting-a-no...

You could always port the number out to another VoIP provider and use your own gear.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Any call forwarding will be done on their SIP server, rather then the endpoint (customer router).

In reply to a post by MHC:

I know, the idea was to make the OP think about it; which has happened.

Thanks both - disconnecting the Hyperoptic Hub causes any calls to my "landline" to result in an engaged tone, so the Hub appears to be required.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

]Do you know your registration details for your Hyperoptic VOIP service, or if not will Hyperoptic tell you these details?

Yes, Hyperoptic will give out the registration details freely - that's not a problem. I know other Hyperoptic users have the HT801 working with the Hyperoptic service - I really wanted to know more about the functionality of the HT801 with regard to call forwarding (aka call divert) but we seem to have got off the beaten track for which I apologise.

I thought this VoIP sub-forum was the more suitable place to ask about the VoIP hardware (ie. HT801) rather than in the Hyperoptic sub-forum but in hindsight maybe that's what I should have done!

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

There are apps like Csipsimple which will run on Android mobile phones and which can register with VOIP providers.

Some VOIP services such as Sipgate allow you to have more than one device registered and ring both phones. Otheres such as Voipfone don't allow this. You could ask Hyperoptic what they do.

Yeah, however for the sake of a £40 device (approx cost of a HT801) I figured that would be the easier option particularly as I'm keen to keep my landline number and don't want to have to port it out again (plus I already pay for the Hyperoptic service, and am happy to continue for the price they charge).

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

The registration interval is how often a device tries to re-register rather than what the service provider does. If a device does not reply to an incoming call, I would expect the service provider to follow its procedure for phone not answered.

Thanks! I've now determined that if the Hyperoptic Hub is disconnected then callers to the VoIP landline will get an engaged tone, presumably as there's no active "client" (user isn't logged in/connected)?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Check. But looks doubtful…

https://www.hyperoptic.com/faq/posts/connecting-a-no...

Thanks, that's interesting option but getting rid of the Hyperoptic Hub entirely was my main objective, although I guess it could always be a Plan C or D if nothing else works out!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

You could always port the number out to another VoIP provider and use your own gear.

The HT801 does work with the Hyperoptic service, so porting out shouldn't be necessary, I really just wanted to know the capabilities of the HT801 with regard to call forwarding (irrespective of Hyperoptic as the service - I guess maybe mentioning Hyperoptic was a mistake in hindsight!)

------

Thanks for all the replies, I think I'll ask on the Hyperoptic sub-forum where I know at least one user has an HT801. I'll update this thread if I'm able to reach a conclusion!

I think a Cisco SPA112 will forward calls as you want. You can download the full manual if you want. What I think you need is the User 1 (or 2) Call Forward Settings, Cfwd All Dest:

I have one which selectively forwards certain calls to another number.

It can also forward calls after a configurable delay if they are not answered.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

I think a Cisco SPA112 will forward calls as you want. You can download the full manual if you want. What I think you need is the User 1 (or 2) Call Forward Settings, Cfwd All Dest:

I have one which selectively forwards certain calls to another number.

It can also forward calls after a configurable delay if they are not answered.

Thanks - I'll bear that in mind if I get nowhere with the HT801. The only problem with the SPA112 is that it's discontinued, and also a tad more expensive than the HT801. The HT801 has been confirmed as working with Hyperoptic VoIP, it just remains to be seen if the call divert works as it should!

There's also the consideration of who's going to pay for the call to the mobile.

While the caller is calling your SIP number and will pay any costs involved in doing that, when the call is forwarded to the mobile it's basically a second call daisy chained onto the first and there may be call costs involved. These would need to be paid for by you assuming that can be set-up.

The Cisco ATA191-3PW-K9 is the replacement for the SPA112.

There is an ATA192-3PW-K9 available from Amazon for £76.80. It has a 2nd ethernet port but appears to be otherwise similar. My SPA112 will forward all calls to my mobile. The original caller details are shown on the mobile.

In reply to a post by bsdnazz:

There's also the consideration of who's going to pay for the call to the mobile.

While the caller is calling your SIP number and will pay any costs involved in doing that, when the call is forwarded to the mobile it's basically a second call daisy chained onto the first and there may be call costs involved. These would need to be paid for by you assuming that can be set-up.

Yes, that's a very valid point and one I have previously raised with Hyperoptic as it's not made clear on their web site at all. - this is all they mention about Call Forwarding:

https://www.hyperoptic.com/faq/posts/what-calling-fe...

There's no mention of any additional costs, and it's not at all obvious that there are now two "legs" to the incoming call, or who pays for which "leg" of the call (I realise it's me paying for the call between my landline and my mobile, but others may not).

Fortunately incoming calls to my landline are fairly infrequent so I'm not expecting the additional cost of the calls to my mobile to be significant.

Unfortunately it does mean I will be paying for spam calls, though! Grrrr.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

The Cisco ATA191-3PW-K9 is the replacement for the SPA112.

There is an ATA192-3PW-K9 available from Amazon for £76.80. It has a 2nd ethernet port but appears to be otherwise similar. My SPA112 will forward all calls to my mobile. The original caller details are shown on the mobile.

Thanks.

I went through the user guide for the HT801 and it does support unconditional call forwarding so I've ordered one - if nothing else I'll take one for the team and we'll know in future!

I'm not familiar with the Hyperoptic VoIP setup, but for other services, the control page for the VoIP service is separate from the end device you have configured with your SIP details.

If I am reading your post correctly, you are logging into the Hyperoptic Hub to set the call divert, not the VoIP control pages, hence the engaged tone/lack of forward when the hub is unplugged. You need to access the control pages to set the divert, however a quick Google doesn't show any info on how to access the control pages (if, indeed they are available to the end user - I would expect there would be more info on the Hyperoptic forum)

In reply to a post by Milhouse:

Yes, that's a very valid point and one I have previously raised with Hyperoptic as it's not made clear on their web site at all. - this is all they mention about Call Forwarding:

https://www.hyperoptic.com/faq/posts/what-calling-fe...

There's no mention of any additional costs, and it's not at all obvious that there are now two "legs" to the incoming call, or who pays for which "leg" of the call (I realise it's me paying for the call between my landline and my mobile, but others may not).

Fortunately incoming calls to my landline are fairly infrequent so I'm not expecting the additional cost of the calls to my mobile to be significant.

Unfortunately it does mean I will be paying for spam calls, though! Grrrr.

From their price book page 7, you will pay 10p per call connection charge plus around 17p per minute for the outbound call forward to a UK mobile.

Callers to your landline, pay only the charge from their provider to a UK landline number. The forwarding costs from your landline to your mobile are paid by you.

As you’re able to access the VoIP registration details for your Hyperoptic service, there is another I my opinion neater and cheaper solution that would solve your problem, without any additional hardware (no user hardware at all needed), for a one-off cost of £7 and no ongoing call forwarding charges…

Download the Acrobits Softphone client (or slightly more featured, but more expensive Acrobits Groundwire client) onto your mobile.

This is a cut above your typical softphone client with one quite important detail that is a clincher - it has an offline ‘push notification’ function that wakes the client and allows incoming calls to be received without the client software actively running on the phone. To quote their FAQ;

“Push notifications are messages sent to your device that are used to wake Acrobits Softphone up when you receive an alert. They are a system and battery-friendly option that keeps you in the loop.

Acrobits Softphone uses its push notifications server (which runs in the background) to notify you of incoming calls, messages, and other events without draining your battery. Without them, the app would use your phone’s processing power and drain your battery to stay in constant contact with the network. Push notifications are a battery-friendly solution to real-time notifications because they aren’t resource-heavy.”

I’ve been trialling it over the weekend and it works a treat with my SIP provider, working in parallel or independently of my own voip phones and hardware and with multiple lines and VoIP accounts.

I’m quite impressed with it. It could be the perfect solution to your problem.

This is a summary of how the Acrobits SIP Instance Server (SIPIS) works together with the Apple / Google ecosystem and your VoIP provider (or your own SIP server).

It's rather clever and gets around some inherent limitations of iOS/Android and the SIP protocol itself.

https://doc.acrobits.net/sipis/overview.html

I had raspbx on a pi for years with a phone system indoor with phones in every room. It worked really well, especially for contacting the kids. An intercom was in every room too.

I also bought lots of voip phones for all the rooms which could also work without the raspbx.

In the end though, i just gave it all up and scrapped it. I just now have my mobile, but the "voip landline" number that i had with sipgate, i just set it to go straight to voicemail and it instantly emails all the family the voicemail.

If its important, i get straight back to the caller.

When i tried the soft client apps on my iphone, they were not really reliable. However, it was probably 5+ years ago, i am sure everything has improved since then.

I know this doesn't answer your question, but just sharing what i have been through.

Edited by Mitchy_mitch (Thu 27-May-21 08:09:01)

We too are long time Asterisk/FreePBX users - getting on for a decade. To be honest, we use our "landlines" both for personal and business very infrequently now for outbound calls. Its predominantly there for inbound calls. Everything else has gone mobile calls or video now with inclusive/unlimited minutes and more bundled data that we can use.

I still have a similar setup with physical Cisco phones (9971's) and we can actually video call between rooms and in between premises which was very cool in 2012, but with the preponderance (especially since the pandemic) of meetings shifting exclusively to online - we now pretty much live our work lives on a combination of Teams, Zoom and Skype. My wife's work landline uses their corporate unified comms setup over her laptop with Jabber. There days we rarely to never use "meet-me" dial-in conference rooms that were a mainstay in the noughties for 'online' calls.

I still will rebuild the Asterisk box at some stage, as its long overdue a re-image to bring it up to date, but yes its longer our primary means of voice comms.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

This is a summary of how the Acrobits SIP Instance Server (SIPIS) works together with the Apple / Google ecosystem and your VoIP provider (or your own SIP server).

It's rather clever and gets around some inherent limitations of iOS/Android and the SIP protocol itself.

https://doc.acrobits.net/sipis/overview.html

Thanks for the suggestion. I cocked up my Amazon order for the HT801 and it's not here yet (maybe later today) so I went ahead and gave Acrobits Softphone a try.

It was easy enough to setup, and I can make calls over WiFi but receiving incoming calls via the push notification is not yet working, and calls while on the cellular network also don't work (unable to register), so it appears that Hyperoptic are blocking all non-Hyperoptic IP addresses from registering with the Hyperoptic SIP server.

I've posted more details in my corresponding post on the Hyperoptic sub-forum as I'm hoping someone from Hyperoptic CS will be able to respond!

Hi - no worries. Apologies didn’t see your other updates on the Hyper sub forum until you mentioned it.

That’s a real shame that HO appear to block their VoIP server from access outside their own network. My guess is that they’re probably doing it in the name of security. However is quite limiting and shortsighted.

There are better VOIP providers out there…that won’t block their servers. Porting is always an option 😉

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

There are better VOIP providers out there…that won’t block their servers. Porting is always an option 😉

Yeah, I just wanted an easy solution - lol, that didn't exactly work out!

I've got the HT801 now, I'll probably wait until this issue with Acrobits is solved first (one way or the other) before proceeding with that. The HT801 and call forwarding is now my last resort option!

I did think about porting out and finding another SIP provider, but my landline is used so little that an HT801 and slightly increased call costs (forwarding to mobile) isn't going to be a major cost, and hopefully will be a "set it and forget it" solution. Ideally though we can get Acrobits working properly with the Hyperoptic SIP server - that would be the best option for me, and also any other Hyperoptic users that want to do the same in future.

In reply to a post by Milhouse:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

There are better VOIP providers out there…that won’t block their servers. Porting is always an option 😉

Yeah, I just wanted an easy solution - lol, that didn't exactly work out!

I've got the HT801 now, I'll probably wait until this issue with Acrobits is solved first (one way or the other) before proceeding with that. The HT801 and call forwarding is now my last resort option!

I did think about porting out and finding another SIP provider, but my landline is used so little that an HT801 and slightly increased call costs (forwarding to mobile) isn't going to be a major cost, and hopefully will be a "set it and forget it" solution. Ideally though we can get Acrobits working properly with the Hyperoptic SIP server - that would be the best option for me, and also any other Hyperoptic users that want to do the same in future.

If it’s a genuine security concern, then HO third line should be able to support a case to white-list the Acrobits network range to their SIP regi port range

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

If it’s a genuine security concern, then HO third line should be able to support a case to white-list the Acrobits network range to their SIP regi port range

"whitelisting" the Acrobits IP addresses would be a partial solution (and we've asked for this - but so far been told it's "not possible"). I say "partial" because then it would be possible to receive calls via push notifications whenever the Acrobits app is *not* open whether I'm on the Hyperoptic network or not (ie. cellular) because then Acrobits uses SIPIS to register etc.

However it wouldn't always be possible to make or receive calls when the Acrobits app is *open* because then the app will be trying to register directly with the Hyperoptic SIP server (ie. not using SIPIS), and the registrations will fail when using any non-Hyperoptic network.

So whitelisting the Acrobits SIPIS IP addresses is an option, and it may be good enough for those that only ever want to receive calls (which is pretty much all I want, to be honest, so I'd be happy with that) but for everyone else Acrobits may still appear to be "broken" and they'll end up going through this rigmarole all over again...

Acrobits might have some more creative solutions for when the app is open and their SIPIS addresses are whitelisted - maybe the open app could be configured to use SIPIS in order to proxy the registrations. But that's up to Acrobits, and probably isn't worth the effort as I doubt many other SIP providers do what Hyperoptic are doing.

Indeed. if other ‘independent’ for want of better description, SIP / VOIP service providers did what HO are doing then they’d be out of business pretty quickly, as no one would be able to connect to them.

I won’t flog a dead horse, but my attitude to “bundled services” such as this, is that they are purely designed to tie you in to the ISP. Which is fine for many folks who are happy with the one stop shop. But it has pitfalls as you know.

My preference at home or business is to strictly keep hosting, email, voice and broadband/ internet service all completely separate with individual providers. For a start there is less total risk as not all “eggs are in one basket”. Secondly it gives full portability to logically or contractually move services without disruption to other services. Changing <insert service here> becomes far more straightforward.

Just to throw my two penny worth in.

I use Voipfone and have several VoIP phones including an analogue phone connected to an ATA. On my mobile, I have a VoIP softphone. Each has own extension number plus a DDI Number with all the phones placed in a group. A single DDI number activates the group meaning all my VoIP phones ring at the same time. I can answer the call on any ringing phone. There are no call forwarding charges.

Extension to extension calls are free. The nice thing is that my mobile phone has an 01 number, in addition to the provider's 07 number.

Does your softphone need to be running to receive calls?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Does your softphone need to be running to receive calls?

The softphone is Voipfone's own app so i have two dial pads to chose from, one for Vodaphone and the other for Voipfone to make an outgoing call. Provided wherever I am, the mobile phone is connected to the internet then I can receive calls whether the caller might be using the phones extension number, its DDI (an 01 number) or the groups trigger number (again an 01). It must be a background facility that springs into life when a call is received. The address book is common across Vodafone and Voipfone but the right dialling pad has to be selected for some outgoing calls to be successful.

I have an iPhone11 with voice caller ID turned on and if the number is stored in the address book, i might hear "Aunt Mauld calling" or whatever.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Just to throw my two penny worth in.

I use Voipfone and have several VoIP phones including an analogue phone connected to an ATA. On my mobile, I have a VoIP softphone. Each has own extension number plus a DDI Number with all the phones placed in a group. A single DDI number activates the group meaning all my VoIP phones ring at the same time. I can answer the call on any ringing phone. There are no call forwarding charges.

Extension to extension calls are free. The nice thing is that my mobile phone has an 01 number, in addition to the provider's 07 number.

Thanks, Voipfone looks interesting (and cheap!), and gives me another option should I decide I want to stick with the softphone solution!

Jeez, I really never imagined this would be such a mess (thanks to Hyperoptic! )

Ah yes I see. It appears that Voipfone app employ a different method, so called GeoDivert, than Acrobits (with SIPIS) for background inbound voice calls - they effectively use the phones location service to trigger a call diversion (back at their SIP server) to divert inbound calls to your landline to go to your mobile number. Quite clever too, but clearly tied to Voipfone accounts only.

Porting numbers is a one off cost, but the long term cost (which could end up being far greater) is in ongoing service subscription and call forwarding charges.

For primarily inbound landline call servicing, choosing a SIP provider that has no ongoing subscription cost, and a mobile access solution that doesn’t involve call forwarding (setup and per minute charges) would be the the way to go.