Porting landline number to VOIP ceases old contract?

I understand that porting a landline number to a VOIP provider also ceases any underlying broadband service that was provided on that PSTN line.

OK, it's not an ideal arrangement but that's just how it is at the moment.

If one does do a landline number port-out to VOIP, will the 'losing'/'donor' provider automatically regard it as ending the contract - assuming the minimum contract term is over?

In other words in this scenario there's no need to serve notice to the previous provider - the number port-out serves to cease the old contract much in the same way as a mobile number port ceases the contract with the old provider. Is that correct?

Edited by binary (Sun 29-Aug-21 21:31:02)

This is what the email from PlusNet said when I ported my number out to a VoIP provider, I had FTTP installed in a couple of weeks earlier so no longer needed (or wanted to pay for ) the FTTC.

Another service provider has told us that you want to move your broadband and phone away from Plusnet.

Your broadband and phone service is scheduled to transfer automatically on 14th August 2021 and will result in the cancellation of your Plusnet account. This means that on this date, your services will be taken over by your new provider and you won't need to contact us to cancel your service with us.

Zen do an option, with cost, to port the number and assign a new number keeping the broadband

Similar question was asked in this thread - there is a danger in cancelling broadband if cabinet has waiting list of not getting it back

This is NOT acceptable!!!!

????

In reply to a post by binary:

In other words in this scenario there's no need to serve notice to the previous provider - the number port-out serves to cease the old contract much in the same way as a mobile number port ceases the contract with the old provider. Is that correct?

That is what I did with Plusnet when I moved to Virgin Media cable. I had the VM service up and running for a few weeks, then bought from Andrew & Arnold their VoIP service and migrated my number, the migration cancelled the Plusnet broadband and phone service.

It will cease the service but it might not always stop the billing with Plusnet, worth checking your direct debits for a bit afterwards.

In reply to a post by Kenneth:

This is what the email from PlusNet said when I ported my number out to a VoIP provider, I had FTTP installed in a couple of weeks earlier so no longer needed (or wanted to pay for ) the FTTC.

Another service provider has told us that you want to move your broadband and phone away from Plusnet.

Your broadband and phone service is scheduled to transfer automatically on 14th August 2021 and will result in the cancellation of your Plusnet account. This means that on this date, your services will be taken over by your new provider and you won't need to contact us to cancel your service with us.

Zen do an option, with cost, to port the number and assign a new number keeping the broadband

Similar question was asked in this thread - there is a danger in cancelling broadband if cabinet has waiting list of not getting it back

Thanks. Presumably that's how other communications providers (other than Plusnet) will act if a number port-out to VOIP is requested - basically a similar process as with a traditional move (migration) of the landline phone & broadband service to a different provider.

This will be tied in with a house move, so the issue of losing a port in the FTTC cabinet doesn't arise. Will make do with mobile broadband in the interim.

Obviously it's worth keeping track of billing with the old (losing/donor) provider. It was more a question of whether there's some complicated requirement to give notice to the old provider and ensure that is timed correctly - thankfully this is not the case!

Caution! A non-migration of a broadband + voice service may invoke termination charges. To avoid this you might be required to give 30 days notice. Also if you prematurely stop the direct debit mandate, you might find yourself paying an admin charge for the alternative method of payment to the loosing ISP.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Caution! A non-migration of a broadband + voice service may invoke termination charges. To avoid this you might be required to give 30 days notice. Also if you prematurely stop the direct debit mandate, you might find yourself paying an admin charge for the alternative method of payment to the loosing ISP.

I thought most providers don't have a termination charge/fee these days - there was the case of Shell Energy charging one, as detailed in this MoneySavingExpert news article, but that does go on to state...

Shell Energy is the only major broadband provider MSE is aware of which charges this kind of cease fee [...]

If you're outside your minimum contract term I'd think there wouldn't be a termination charge/fee.

Just re-reading your post... OK I think you're making the distinction between a traditional migration of broadband + voice landline to another provider, and the porting-out of a number to a VOIP provider. I see. I guess it's a case of reviewing the losing/donor providers T&Cs then.

In reply to a post by binary:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Caution! A non-migration of a broadband + voice service may invoke termination charges. To avoid this you might be required to give 30 days notice. Also if you prematurely stop the direct debit mandate, you might find yourself paying an admin charge for the alternative method of payment to the loosing ISP.

Just re-reading your post... OK I think you're making the distinction between a traditional migration of broadband + voice landline to another provider, and the porting-out of a number to a VOIP provider. I see. I guess it's a case of reviewing the losing/donor providers T&Cs then.

I am actually in the process of porting out a number from OneCom to an VoIP provider. It just so happens that the number is "silver", if not "gold", and so I didn't want anything to go wrong. The contract for Broadband + Voice expires mid October and intended to let the service die on the vine, porting out the number in mid September hence decided to read in depth their T&Cs. There they state that at least 30 days notice is required to terminate the service otherwise termination charges apply; what is not particularly clear is whether it is a calendar month or not. No worries the notice has gone in now.

Aware that others have said that payments continued to be taken after a contracted had ended, considered scrapping the DD and paying by BACS as the monthly bill came in, only to discover there was a hefty charge for non DD payments, Once the final payment has gone through, then the DD will be withdrawn.

In the meantime a new service has gone in with the existing services not used and particularly with the voice service having an attached phone. Will the porting go through without a hitch? Fingers crossed.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It will cease the service but it might not always stop the billing with Plusnet, worth checking your direct debits for a bit afterwards.

I did and had no problem. Plusnet took the porting date as the day I gave notice. I was out of minimum term of the contract for several years by then.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Caution! A non-migration of a broadband + voice service may invoke termination charges. To avoid this you might be required to give 30 days notice. Also if you prematurely stop the direct debit mandate, you might find yourself paying an admin charge for the alternative method of payment to the loosing ISP.

Porting the phone number of a bundled broadband and voice service, is the exact same as a migration.
The old provider is contacted telling them you are migrating away.

You do not and you should not contact the losing provider when migrating.
You should never give 30 days notice to a provider you are migrating away from. This will trigger a cease and prevent a migration.

You only give the 30 days notice if you are ceasing the OpenReach line without migrating the number away.
That's not the case here.

The contract for Broadband + Voice expires mid October and intended to let the service die on the vine, porting out the number in mid September hence decided to read in depth their T&Cs. There they state that at least 30 days notice is required to terminate the service otherwise termination charges apply;

All providers have similar in their t&c's.
You are NOT terminating the service. You are migrating.

In the scenario you have described that is not how you should proceed. A provider can't charge a fee for not giving 30 days notice if you migrate away outside the minimum term.

It is irrelevant whether you are migrating the phone+broadband, or just the phone number to VOIP.
The losing provider is contacted to tell them your are migrating in both scenarios.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 31-Aug-21 10:40:20)

Here's a thought.

Has anyway tried a double migration ?

Going from an ISP with a bundled Broadband and Phone service, to a VoIP supplier (for the phone number) and an ISP with Broadband-Only service (or a bundled service, but with a new PTSN number that can be ignored ?)

I suppose it would hinge on being able to define the same migration date with both of the gaining suppliers ?

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Here's a thought.

Has anyway tried a double migration ?

Going from an ISP with a bundled Broadband and Phone service, to a VoIP supplier (for the phone number) and an ISP with Broadband-Only service (or a bundled service, but with a new PTSN number that can be ignored ?)

I suppose it would hinge on being able to define the same migration date with both of the gaining suppliers ?

I stand to be corrected, but I think in this 'two separate supplier' scenario, you aren't looking at a double migration, but rather a single migration (port of the voice and by virtue a cease of the bundled broadband) and then a new provide (of either a SOGEA or another FTTC based) broadband service.

Therefore I don't think its possible to "define the same migration date"

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 31-Aug-21 18:44:17)

You can certainly migrate a bundled voice+broadband service to another provider as broadband only.

That's exactly what I did with my BT FTTP + PSTN bundled service.
It was migrated to Talktalks FTTP data only package.

The communication I received from BT was specific that I was migrating my broadband only.

Another service provider has told us you want to move your broadband over to them on 29-Jul-2021. So we're taking this as notice that you want to stop broadband and any dependent services with us on that date.

BT initially seemed to suggest that my PSTN line was going to continue running after the broadband was migrated away.
After calling BT to clarify they confirmed this would not be the case and the PSTN line did indeed cease on migration day.

I don't know if it is possible to migrate both the landline to VOIP and the broadband to another provider, from a bundled broadband+voice service.
Migrating 1 seems to automatically cease the other.

A cease tag on the line then prevents further orders being placed on that line.

Perhaps the likes of Martin from Aquiss could offer some insight if that's actually possible.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Perhaps the likes of Martin from Aquiss could offer some insight if that's actually possible.

Not really, at present. If a number is linked to a copper based service (ADSL/FTTC), as soon as a number is ported to VoIP it will take out the PSTN landline service which in turn will cancel the broadband at the same time. It's the same issue we are seeing with our SoGEA tests.

We are still determining best practices with this and running various testing and ordering flows, as this is going to become a big an issue for both FTTP and SoGEA where customers want to retain their number via VoIP.

What we are doing presently, to ensure service continuity for customers who wish to retain their phone, but moving to FTTP, is to commission the FTTP separately (so don't use a copper to FTTP transfer), thus allow the port to VoIP to happen once FTTP is live. It's a workaround, until better fluid systems can established, including from the likes of OR and BTW.

Thanks for the speedy, detailed response (as always).

In reply to a post by aquiss:

What we are doing presently, to ensure service continuity for customers who wish to retain their phone, but moving to FTTP, is to commission the FTTP separately (so don't use a copper to FTTP transfer), thus allow the port to VoIP to happen once FTTP is live. It's a workaround, until better fluid systems can established, including from the likes of OR and BTW.

That's good to hear. It's the process I've been recommending folk on the forum to take.

Have you had any issues with customers migrating VOIP/SOGEA numbers to or from your service?
There seems a fair few complaints from Sky users unable to migrate their Sky SOGEA numbers to other providers. A couple similar complaints from BT customers.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Perhaps the likes of Martin from Aquiss could offer some insight if that's actually possible.

Not really, at present. If a number is linked to a copper based service (ADSL/FTTC), as soon as a number is ported to VoIP it will take out the PSTN landline service which in turn will cancel the broadband at the same time. It's the same issue we are seeing with our SoGEA tests.

We are still determining best practices with this and running various testing and ordering flows, as this is going to become a big an issue for both FTTP and SoGEA where customers want to retain their number via VoIP.

What we are doing presently, to ensure service continuity for customers who wish to retain their phone, but moving to FTTP, is to commission the FTTP separately (so don't use a copper to FTTP transfer), thus allow the port to VoIP to happen once FTTP is live. It's a workaround, until better fluid systems can established, including from the likes of OR and BTW.

Extra complexity if you are still in contract and want to upgrade from ADSL to FTTC and port the number over to VoIP. The only fail safe method seems to be to order up a new FTTP SOGEA service from another (cheaper) provider to ensure continuity of broadband and once that is up and running, port out the exchange line number to VoIP.

But in the background the losing ISP expects to you to give 30 days notice of terminating the service otherwise termination charges apply. Failure to do so then you sleep walk into another 24 month contract with the "losing" ISP. So you end up with duplex services for up to a couple of months. The number just also happens to be a golden one, so this process has to be handled with kids gloves.

In this thread, someone said that porting is nothing more than migrating and therefore contact with the losing ISP should not be made. I wasn't prepared to test the water on that one. Of course you want to ensure that the losing ISP doesn't take more money than they are entitled to and so you cancel the DD with the intention of paying off the balance by BACS, Well that's OK except you get charged a handling fee for not paying by DD.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Have you had any issues with customers migrating VOIP/SOGEA numbers to or from your service?
There seems a fair few complaints from Sky users unable to migrate their Sky SOGEA numbers to other providers. A couple similar complaints from BT customers.

Yes, very much so and one of the main reasons for our delays with a launch of SOGEA products. I'm just not happy with the customer experience, which for me, over everything is the most important aspect.

We were as far as I know the first provider to correctly support FTTP to FTTP transfers and ADSL/FTTC to FTTP transfers (according to our account managers), so we are equally determined that we get this nailed too, factoring in the need, where requested for no loss of phone numbers or service if an IP based request comes in.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well that's OK except you get charged a handling fee for not paying by DD.

The Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 stopped a business charging extra for using one method payment over and another.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Extra complexity if you are still in contract and want to upgrade from ADSL to FTTC and port the number over to VoIP. The only fail safe method seems to be to order up a new FTTP SOGEA service from another (cheaper) provider to ensure continuity of broadband and once that is up and running, port out the exchange line number to VoIP.

It would be FTTP or SOGEA service. The two aren’t linked, unless you want both 😀

But in the background the losing ISP expects to you to give 30 days notice of terminating the service otherwise termination charges apply. Failure to do so then you sleep walk into another 24 month contract with the "losing" ISP. So you end up with duplex services for up to a couple of months.

1. Termination charges should not be applied once the minimum term has expired. Once your minimum term has expired, you are officially out of contract and may leave without penalty, however you would still reasonably be expected to give notice - that is pay up to the notice period as outlined in your contract. Typically 30 days.

2. Contact renewal is an explicit gesture. “Sleep walking” into a 24 month contract would mean that one explicitly agreed to a new contract term. Otherwise by default the contract becomes a rolling monthly contact on most cases.

3. Under the current system, so long as you have to order a new service, there will unfortunately always be some level “overlap”. The alternative is to have a gap - no service.

The number just also happens to be a golden one, so this process has to be handled with kids gloves.

In this thread, someone said that porting is nothing more than migrating and therefore contact with the losing ISP should not be made. I wasn't prepared to test the water on that one. Of course you want to ensure that the losing ISP doesn't take more money than they are entitled to and so you cancel the DD with the intention of paying off the balance by BACS, Well that's OK except you get charged a handling fee for not paying by DD.

Unless your terminate, the current system for any migrations is Gaining Provider Lead (GPL), so the advice is correct.

There seems a fair few complaints from Sky users unable to migrate their Sky SOGEA numbers to other providers.

I just migrated from Sky/SoGEA back to Plusnet BB + traditional analogue phone connection. It was handled seamlessly - today in fact!

When I looked in to this recently, it seems like a right mess today. No easy way to safeguard BB service (cabinet slot, etc) and migrate phone to a separate provider (VoIP or otherwise).

Someone on the Plusnet community forums mentioned "migrate number with line renumber", so in theory this has been considered, but sadly it seems [most] providers don't actually offer this facility.

In reply to a post by aks:

There seems a fair few complaints from Sky users unable to migrate their Sky SOGEA numbers to other providers.

I just migrated from Sky/SoGEA back to Plusnet BB + traditional analogue phone connection. It was handled seamlessly - today in fact!

So seemless you made a thread saying there was issues with the number being recognised. It required your manual intervention to correct it.

In reply to a post by aks:

I am currently with Sky and moving [back] to Plusnet. However, as expected from various threads, I have received a txt message today saying my number is not active so need to take a new number. I have explained this is a number currently on a SoGEA connection, so I hope they can resolve this.

Please share any more tips if you'd suggest more action on my side. Cheers.

That's exactly the issues I was discussing.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 03-Sep-21 17:29:36)

So seemless you made a thread saying there was issues with the number being recognised. It required your manual intervention to correct it.

You are right, CLI needed attention and has now been resolved.

In reply to a post by aks:
I am currently with Sky and moving [back] to Plusnet. However, as expected from various threads, I have received a txt message today saying my number is not active so need to take a new number. I have explained this is a number currently on a SoGEA connection, so I hope they can resolve this.

Please share any more tips if you'd suggest more action on my side. Cheers.


That's exactly the issues I was discussing.

That was my concern at the time, but it turned out to be a non-issue. Plusnet left and right hand seemed confused, but this was resolved again by reading the ticket they created which in fact said they follow a slightly different procedure to migrate the number.

So why seamless? There was no need on my side to faff about, come changeover day phone and broadband moved seamlessly - yes I realised (it was pointed out to me) that CLI wasn't working from the off, minor glitch then , or shall we say not so seamless afterall ! Sorry for any confusion.