BT Digital Voice - parting of the ways?

I currently have FTTP, wifi calling on mobile phones (because the phone signal at home is pretty much non-existent) and a copper landline. The attraction of the landline is (mainly) the resilience to power cuts and a fair degree of inertia to be honest. I don't use a BT router because the last one I tried didn't work with my mesh wifi.

BT have sent me the letters about being switched over to digital voice at some stage. They've caused me to consider whether I want or need a landline replacement and I wonder whether there's an element of BT shooting themselves in the foot by making me (and presumably others) think about landline replacement.

I realise that I need battery backup for my ONT and router if I want resilience. I'll also have to rejig (and probably replace) my DECT phones if I want to continue to use them, in part because I have no need for a phone near the router and ONT. I am detecting low levels of spousal acceptance for a UPS.

This makes me think I might as well can the whole idea of BT Digital Voice. I might just as well use any VOIP provider and be free to choose whatever hardware I want for voice.

I wouldn't have thought this is good business for BT but I no longer see any benefit in getting voice services from BT.

Total number of 'landlines', total number of minutes, and therefore total revenues and profits from PSTN have been in marked and continued decline for the past 15 years or so. I think they peaked some time in the early noughties and never recovered.

Mobile basically ate their share and was also far more profitable for the carriers.

BT (the group mothership) have effectively decided there really is an inexorable and irreversible shrinking business case for PSTN. The cost of running legacy switches in exchanges therefore keeps rising per unit and also each year as the gear goes further and further out of support.

The only way forward then for 'landline' voice really is IP or Voice over IP, which is vastly cheaper and easier to implement and run. Its simply another service like email, web browsing, video calls etc etc, that runs "over the top".

I should add this isn't a particular thing to BT or the UK. Most other countries have similar pressures -> shrinking demand and ageing technology base* x 1000's of physical exchange sites (which are increasingly empty and expensive to keep) and are moving to VoIP

The UK is actually someway down the list of other western countries that have turned off their 'legacy telco' switched PSTN networks. The Germans did it back in 2014. Australia and New Zealand have a deadline to complete by next year.

* ageing user base also.

I'm in the same situation as yourself, I'm in contract still... otherwise I'd have stopped it already.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I should add this isn't a particular thing to BT

TalkTalk residential weren't even offering VoIP if you took up FTTP, not sure if they do now.

TalkTalk consumer still only do Data only packages for FTTP. Not sure what they are going to do on the next year or so as the 2023 milestone of the PSTN closure gets closer and complete closure in 2025.

Correct they don’t. I can categorically confirm that as a customer. Not that it matters to me an iota.

I spend more on mobile bills in a month than I have in a year (actually probably closer three years) than I do with my VoIP provider - suspect that’s not atypical. Outgoing calls go via inclusive packages. My teenage kids don’t even know what a landline is, as few under the age of thirty don’t even bother having one…ever.

In a resi setting it really is the the more senior members of our community that come to rely on it - out of force of habit and circumstance.

Yeah its simply not a revenue target. It’s more of a hassle. There are plenty of third party VoIP providers out there…usually with far less restrictions and tie-ins.

In reply to a post by cymru123:

TalkTalk consumer still only do Data only packages for FTTP. Not sure what they are going to do on the next year or so as the 2023 milestone of the PSTN closure gets closer and complete closure in 2025.

"TalkTalk" is perhaps not the most accurate brand name for a product (FTTP) that doesn't even offer it's own voice service!

I just think it's mad that BT expect everyone of their broadband customers to use their Hub if they want landline service, no ifs or buts.

I had DV with Virgin previously but Virgin is fine as it connects to the Hub (even in modem mode i believe)

Ah well

They deliberately designed DV that way. It’s the classic “walled garden” approach: gives them 100% control, support and security of the product (remember they are a legacy old fashioned telco and that’s how they roll). However they have millions of ordinary customers so consistency and control is paramount. I do get it.

You can of course leave the “garden”, but that involves breaking down the walls of your broadband/phone bundle. Which as we know isn’t always straightforward. This part definitely needs to be addressed…regulator has fallen asleep there. 🤣

I'm probably going to just use a call divert when I migrate, to mobile. For all the calls we get should be ok.

If you’re only receiving a low volume of calls, it’s as good an option as any and probably least hassle/disruptive. As long as the conversations don’t run for hours

I'll be using the calls (very short at that) to advise on our mobiles numbers (we all have one lol)

I'm a very similar situation as a couple of others who have posted here.

Currently have BT FTTP and using PSTN for voice. No mobile data (and voice pretty dire).
Non-standard LAN; I've ditched the HomeHub and using a Draytek 2860 which does exactly what I need.
Low call usage, and being railroaded into DigitalVoice by BT.

A couple of other ISPs have recently offered FTTP in my area so , , ,
BT contract runs out in late December so waiting for Black Friday deals then most likely switching to Vodafone (unless BT give me a tenner a month off on a broadband only contract) and VOIP with Sipgate. Also switch to Lebara who use Vodafone network (which is better here) as I'd lose £5pm month discount on BT rate.

I've confirmed with Vodafone that a change would be a take-on rather than a cease and re-provide, and I can port my existing landline number to Sipgate.
From what I've read elsewhere, Vodafone are OK with customers using their own routers.
With an ATA I can plumb in my existing DECT phones to VOIP, although I'd probably get an IP phone as well.
Add a UPS to my Draytek and main switch, and Bob's 'yer uncle.

What could possibly go wrong?

Anyone? :¬)

The order in which you do things is most important - that is if you want to keep the existing number. The number porting request to third party VoIP provider needs to come first. This would then trigger a cease on your FTTP service with BT. You would then need to coincide start date with new FTTP provider to minimise downtime from the cease date with BT and start of service with VF.

There are pitfalls.

Thanks Pheasant.

I've just spoken to BT Digital Voice support and was told that that wouldn't be the case; the FTTP would continue unaffected if I ported the number.
Just to clarify, my BT contract is still FTTP + PSTN. There has been no order raised to migrate me to Digital Voice.
Have you seen otherwise?

Is voice included as part of your FTTP agreement or separate?

Looking at my online bill, under the broadband section I have Fibre with Halo1 and then 500 minute calling plan, the sum of those showing as 'broadband package' cost, so it looks like is.
A separate 'landline' item isn't shown anywhere.

Not looking good then.

When I spoke to BT it was as a general query. I hadn't given them my account details.
I'll go back and ask for a definitive answer specific to my account.

Unless there's been a very recent change then that advice is incorrect.

Migrating the landline number of any bundled broadband+voice service from BT residential will cease the broadband.

There are lots of examples of this on the forum.

You could always try it and see.
If it does trigger a cease then BT would write to you advising that you are migrating your landline+broadband away with more than enough time left to cancel the migration.

PSTN only makes a profit now as it is completely depreciated. even in 2004 revenues would not cover the cost of replacement so VOIP is the only choice.

Most of the edge equipment was installed in the 80s and 90s and it is impressive that it is still working. Biggest value is in recycling the components!

Only reason to use DV rather than a cheap VOIP supplier is the built in resilience in the core and the separate ( Non contended) access so data cannot interfere with the voice, ( although this shouldn't be an issue with higher speed packages except when doing speed tests!) This is why the design insists on their own hub

In theory the separate connectivity could have the bandwidth upped for Video to give a better/guaranteed experience, but have seen no sign of a product, ( most likely as higher speed packages negate the likelyhood of contention)

Many thanks, Pheasant and J0hn.

I'll go back and do as you suggest.
At least I know what to expect now.

The textbook definition of sweating assets. Still amazingly reliable gear that has served BT well. When it goes that will be some disposal program!

Pheasant

To my knowledge it has been going slowly since around 2010, Compressed down / powered off to save energy / stripped out when enough in a building to make it worthwhile. Scrappies bid for the work which goes to the highest bidder. Assay audits check the value.

Now with the exchange by exchange move to VOIP it will be take it all out in one fell swoop Scrappies will be drooling but the price of scrap will fall unless BT drip feeds the recoveries.

Everybody wins ( gets paid), Best recycling model I have ever seen, plus power reductions for climate change.

First time I saw how it could work was in 1983 with a old Telex exchange, Scrappy paid to do the work in two weeks and even polished the floor ready for the next equipment to be installed. No valuable elements apart from Copper back then BUT tons ( literally) of steel / aluminium and copper. He would have cleared the building completely if BT had let him..