Sipgate/Ofcom - Spoof Calls

Will the recent announcement by Ofcom requiring phone companies to block spoofed calls apply to Sipgate or not ? eg is VOIP excluded or because they aren't UK based ?

There should be no carve out just because they are headquartered in Düsseldorf (from memory!). In any event they are the ones to ask if it’s really bothering you.

I used to get more fake and spam calls on my mobile than I ever did in the decade+ I have had Sipgate numbers though. Including ported in ones.

mikegg

It will apply to any operators using UK numbers (+44 abcdefghij) they obtain these from OFCOM and have to obey OFCOM rules as part of the contract.

If you are using numbers from a different regulatory sphere their rules will apply. These may already be stricter than the UK's at present or non-existent.

In reply to a post by kitcat:

mikegg

It will apply to any operators using UK numbers (+44 abcdefghij) they obtain these from OFCOM and have to obey OFCOM rules as part of the contract.

Thanks - good to know they are obliged to follow the same rules - hopefully might see an impact soon .....

I'm going to miss the calls from "Wirgin Media Technical Department" warning me about the "hackers on (my) internet line" Of course I'm always very helpful with their questions and never mention that the line isn't even on VM...

As a Mac owner, it was the calls from "Microsoft Technical Support" that amused me. Not that I have had one for many a year - call that is.

This thread at ISPreview recently about PAC fraud, also brought up this issue of number spoofing.

Sipgate still allow you the ability to change the CID number via the user portal, to literally any number you want. So strictly for research purposes 😅, I set mine to several well known outbound contact centres and then called my mobile. Hey presto I was being called by the number in question.

Not great really.

I got lucky, when I got my phone number, this was a few years back, it was from a residential supplier, the phone number block was protected then changed to a free block shortly after the allocation changed to a business operator so think it tends to be avoided as its primarily been used for businesses rather than residential.

Not sure how I ended up with it but, i've never had any spam calls, or if I have its like one a year.

I know Sipgate use Magrathea Telecommunications in my local area at least, I would imagine they do so for all UK customers but this might not be the case.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sipgate still allow you the ability to change the CID number via the user portal, to literally any number you want.

I have to say this makes me think much less of Sipgate!

The cheap, pile them high, reseller VOIP provider I use doesn't even allow you to do this!

You can enter any number you want but they phone the number with an automated PIN before allowing it to be selected. If you do not enter the PIN you can't use it as a caller id number.

Surely if the regulator was serious about reducing spoofed numbers Sipgate (or any other company) should be told to get their act in order or they should have their ability to "use" UK numbers rescinded.

Let me guess the regulator is more interested in making the service more expensive for the public by allowing ISPs etc to print money and increase costs by £3/month each year. Who in their right minds believed when they said they would intervene with the inflation related increase we would seemingly end up on an even worse system than we had!

In reply to a post by think26872:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sipgate still allow you the ability to change the CID number via the user portal, to literally any number you want.

I have to say this makes me think much less of Sipgate!

You have to prove you own the number, they would send a text or ring the number and provide a code to verify via the webpage. So yes you can set it to any number but only if you can prove it is accessible to you

In reply to a post by copex:

You have to prove you own the number, they would send a text or ring the number and provide a code to verify via the webpage. So yes you can set it to any number but only if you can prove it is accessible to you

That is good news at least it appears that Sipgate addressed the problem. I do wonder though with reports that this wasn't the case only a couple of weeks ago and they fixed it over the Christmas period where fixing things wouldn't be the priority.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sipgate still allow you the ability to change the CID number via the user portal, to literally any number you want. So strictly for research purposes 😅, I set mine to several well known outbound contact centres and then called my mobile. Hey presto I was being called by the number in question.
Not great really.

In reply to a post by copex:

You have to prove you own the number, they would send a text or ring the number and provide a code to verify via the webpage. So yes you can set it to any number but only if you can prove it is accessible to you

@Pheasant as @copex has reported that Sipgate do not let you use any arbitrary number without verification do you mind confirming that is the case? I want to be absolutely sure I am not suggesting any company to friends/family that allows number spoofing so easily.

Thanks

Nope.

You can easily change your Caller ID to be whatever you want using the Sipgate control panel. There are no further checks. I've just set my number to the BT Broadband Helpline and then called my mobile to prove it.

By the way why are you still recommending Sipgate to *anyone*?? Their Basic / Starter package was the only sensible option for domestic/residential users. But that effectively closed to new customers years ago. Thos of us that are still using Sipgate are on legacy packages which will continue to run (for now anyway).

They have shifted their offering completely to focus on business users and correspondingly their now most basic package (business S) starts at £12.95 per user pcm, with a 2-user minimum...

There are other VoIP providers in the UK that will offer way better bang for the buck now than Sipgate.

Thanks for the confirmation that number spoofing is a problem with Sipgate. I wonder if there are multiple ways of setting the caller id and some ways need a PIN verification and other do not and that is what is causing the confusion?

I would normally just suggest A&A VOIP (but thinking about it I do not even know if they have caller ID PIN checking) but if for whatever reason that wasn't suitable Sipgate would have been on the list of possible alternatives to look at (albeit near the bottom but it is not even on the list now).

I probably wouldn't even suggest a VOIP connection and rather just get rid of the landline number completely but for some people that is difficult.

It is difficult to get rid of landline numbers as these are usually permanently engraved in memory. I have trouble remembering my own mobile number but having to remember mobile numbers of friends/family when they get rid of their landline is going to be difficult. I just hope I never need a number when I do not have my mobile on me to look it up.

Thanks

Edited by think26872 (Sat 11-Jan-25 10:25:24)

@Copex was just surmising.

Sipgate haven't changed their user portal design and CID number process in many years.

In reply to a post by think26872:

Thanks for the confirmation that number spoofing is a problem with Sipgate. I wonder if there are multiple ways of setting the caller id and some ways need a PIN verification and other do not and that is what is causing the confusion?

CLID spoofing is not a VoIP problem, but a telecoms industry problem. Years before VoIP I worked for a company that had a PBX (private telephone exchange) connected to PRI (primary rate ISDN) 30 channel connection. The PBX could send any number you wanted as the CLID on an outgoing call.

See Wikipedia US originated work for STIR/SHAKEN as an attempt to retrofit some sort of controls over this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIR/SHAKEN

In reply to a post by think26872:

I want to be absolutely sure I am not suggesting any company to friends/family that allows number spoofing so easily.

I was confused by this comment, I have never had a spoofed call on my Sipgate line, the fact Sipgate allow you to set an unchecked CID is neither here or there. Are you saying you wouldn't use a brand of car because it could be misused by going above the legal speed limit? As long as the people who you recommend it to don't misuse it whats the problem?

In reply to a post by copex:

In reply to a post by think26872:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sipgate still allow you the ability to change the CID number via the user portal, to literally any number you want.

I have to say this makes me think much less of Sipgate!

You have to prove you own the number, they would send a text or ring the number and provide a code to verify via the webpage. So yes you can set it to any number but only if you can prove it is accessible to you

It seems this is no longer the case, and you can change the number without question?

Sorry for the miss information

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by think26872:

I want to be absolutely sure I am not suggesting any company to friends/family that allows number spoofing so easily.

I was confused by this comment, I have never had a spoofed call on my Sipgate line, the fact Sipgate allow you to set an unchecked CID is neither here or there. Are you saying you wouldn't use a brand of car because it could be misused by going above the legal speed limit? As long as the people who you recommend it to don't misuse it whats the problem?

It is more of a feeling of disappointment (and surprise) that Sipgate do not check you have access to the number.

If the pile em high VOIP mass reseller can check you have access to the phone number surely a perceivable more reputable company should have the ability to do the same? Perhaps the pile em high mass reseller is in the minority and it is not just Sipgate that allow any number with no verification?

As already discussed Sipgate probably isn't a recommended provider now anyway but I wonder if the other providers regularly mentioned have any controls in place to stop their customers using numbers they do not own?

Using a number you do not have access to has a simple existing technology fix (phone the number and enter the PIN). Monitoring and enforcing if you are speeding is a far, far, far more complex task and not a fair analogy in my opinion but equally I do get what you are trying to say though.