PSTN to digial tovice

Hoping for some help as something I've not experienced and do not know the answer.

Friends elderly Grandparent at 100+ has recieved letter from BT about digital switch over, has no broadband or no interest, just the phone line, what are the options and how does it work?

I've yet to see the letter and all I have been involved with it broadand so its no issue but not sure on this one, anyone been through the process?

BT Openreach will supply a box which will connect to the telephone line and has a phone socket to which the home telephone wiring should be connected to instead of the incoming telephone line. The box needs mains power.

I suggest you read this.

So they are supplying a router to connect the phone into but with no internet is what your saying?

I would contact BT and say you don't want to change. You have until December 2025 to make the move and there's no point making things complicated for no reason.

In reply to a post by MattL:

So they are supplying a router to connect the phone into but with no internet is what your saying?

Effectively yes

In reply to a post by jpm:

I would contact BT and say you don't want to change. You have until December 2025 to make the move and there's no point making things complicated for no reason.

If everyone had that attitude we would have total gridlock. If no valid blockers then the end user should be migrated.

Normally yes I would agree, get moving. But this user is over 100 years old. There's not a particularly sensitive way to put this but they might never need to migrate off PSTN, and minimising disruption would be my priority.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Normally yes I would agree, get moving. But this user is over 100 years old. There's not a particularly sensitive way to put this but they might never need to migrate off PSTN, and minimising disruption would be my priority.

I understand where you're coming from, hopefully they are a very young 100+

I think it's also worth seeing what happens - I imagine phone line only customers being pushed to £25+ broadband packages will attract negative press and I wouldn't be surprised to see changes being made such as allowing geographic numbers to port to SIM cards to be used in fixed access terminals.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I think it's also worth seeing what happens - I imagine phone line only customers being pushed to £25+ broadband packages will attract negative press and I wouldn't be surprised to see changes being made such as allowing geographic numbers to port to SIM cards to be used in fixed access terminals.

No, they are being given a voice only package with a router which I believe is locked to VoIP only and no other access. It will certainly NOT be a £25+ broadband package.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by jpm:

I think it's also worth seeing what happens - I imagine phone line only customers being pushed to £25+ broadband packages will attract negative press and I wouldn't be surprised to see changes being made such as allowing geographic numbers to port to SIM cards to be used in fixed access terminals.

No, they are being given a voice only package with a router which I believe is locked to VoIP only and no other access. It will certainly NOT be a £25+ broadband package.

I took jpm's comments in bold above to mean attempted upselling by the call agents.

There should be no "selling" agents involved - just customer service to manage te transition.

And given that most of these transfers will probably be elderly with pension there is a good chance they woud qualify for a social tarrif too - so £12:50 for limited broadband.

One area which OR and ISPs will need to manage though is anyone with a fall/care alarm which will need a IP connection or additional ATA.

Hopefully the letter would have a leaflet giving more information about DV.

If the elderly have a monitored burglar alarm and/or health telecare pendants then these may need to be upgraded.

Musing aloud. How will the DV be delivered? If FTTP is available then would this be chosen? If not then FTTC/VDSL or the much slower ADSL if VDSL not available? Assuming FTTP is not available, how does BT/OR know that the existing copper will provide a reliable connection - with no (or infrequent) resyncs during the day? People with existing broadband know whether their line is reliable for data comms. Phone only customers don't have such knowledge - apart from a line with no crackles/noise that has worked reliably for years.

If a phone only subscriber is moved to DV and it doesn't work from a technology perspective - what happens?

In reply to a post by MattL:

So they are supplying a router to connect the phone into but with no internet is what your saying?

There was comments last year that each telephone provider can do this differently but if you pay BT Retail for voice services (and have no broadband) they would provide a relatively tiny box that connected to your line, and to the phone and needed power. The complex part is if you have multiple wired extensions at home and they are wired into the old master socket, it may need an engineer/technician to do some wiring.

If you pay another provider (not BT retail) they may do things differently. Not many do phone lines without broadband.

In reply to a post by BarkingMad:

Musing aloud. How will the DV be delivered? If FTTP is available then would this be chosen? If not then FTTC/VDSL or the much slower ADSL if VDSL not available?

This isn't the end users problem, the company they are paying for a voice service has to deliver a working service. From a technical perspective voice will work on ADSL, FTTC/VDSL or higher. Completely up to the company the service is being purchased from.

I suspect there are not many voice only service users whom are buying from anyone but BT Retail, so BT Retail likely has the largest number of customers. Some providers may actually withdraw from the voice only market.

Edited by jchamier (Tue 08-Aug-23 12:47:06)

In reply to a post by MHC:

There should be no "selling" agents involved - just customer service to manage the transition.

Fair enough.

Does anybody know what these tiny boxes look like that just contain a VDSL modem and an ATA? We could do with some decent ATA options really because at the moment the choice is between Cisco which are quite expensive and have far too many options in the UI, or something like Grandstream that has probably the worst web interface you've ever seen.

At this point an ATA that has a "UK" localisation profile to set things like the caller ID details and the various tones would be an improvement on most of what is out there. And honestly, it seems like the most obvious candidate to be powered by PoE but that seems to be rare as well.

Edited by jpm (Tue 08-Aug-23 14:45:15)

I know some here have spoken about tiny boxes but I've only heard of people getting a standard router with a telephone socket on the back and a very limited broadband connection to carry the telephone service.

Thanks for the replies, got my answers now.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Does anybody know what these tiny boxes look like that just contain a VDSL modem and an ATA?

The likes of BT Retail have said “tiny box” and with much of Europe facing the same challenge there MAY be products manufactured, but the question is how many homes would need one??? Its got to have all the electronics of a VDSL modem/router and SIP ATA plus remote management/support, so cheaper for any supplier to provide existing hardware with perhaps modified software and stickers over the unused ports. Downside is possible higher power consumption.

And honestly, it seems like the most obvious candidate to be powered by PoE but that seems to be rare as well.

A separate ATA that is PoE powered may come around but the ISPs that sell voice services are unlikely to be interested, it would be the independent SIP companies that might be interested in selling such a thing. And I suspect many people buy the DECT wireless phones that are SIP enabled, or the younger generation will just use an app on the mobile phone, not wanting to be ‘tethered’ to the ethernet network …. Especially when its no longer exchange powered

What I actually want is a Pi HAT with an RJ11 socket on it and the electronics required to provide different levels of isolated line voltage and then just an audio passthrough to a Pi so people can interface telephones with whatever services they want and using whatever codecs they decide to use. Maybe a niche product though

That would be fun, but I was thinking the old Huawei HG612 sized box with RJ11 one side to the filter / faceplate and maybe a BT 612a jack the other. 😂

In reply to a post by jpm:

What I actually want is a Pi HAT with an RJ11 socket on it and the electronics required

They exist https://switchpi.com/product/oakr2-base-module-with-... - pity they don't just do a less expensive HAT which has the FXS onboard, there isn't going to be much need for FXO once PSTN has gone.

Fixed voice is an ever declining market, both in terms of aggregate minutes and subscribers.

I can’t see BT Group launching any new products specifically to service this market, given its declining revenue base.

Also from a service perspective it makes sense for them to standardise on the same box as broadband customers and we already know what these look like etc.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Also from a service perspective it makes sense for them to standardise on the same box as broadband customers and we already know what these look like etc.

Agreed, friends in their 70s can’t wait for the phone line to go. Its only used by junk / spam callers

If they're in such a desperate hurry then why haven't they unplugged their phone? Problem solved.

In reply to a post by Speckled500:

If they're in such a desperate hurry then why haven't they unplugged their phone? Problem solved.

Worry their less technology aware friends have all got the message

[While BT existing line customers may be offered this solution, there are thousands of ADSL users via many different suppliers. And that's before you count in third-party party suppliers.
Age UK has published the Ofcom requirements related to a defined type of end-user.
As the press release I am holding could be out of date, I suggest you search the AGE UK web site

The link to the BT information pages was extremely useful. BUT what about users who are NOT BT customers?

Each provider should be contacting their customers before 2025 to let them know what their options are

In reply to a post by jpm:

Each provider should be contacting their customers before 2025 to let them know what their options are

And providers using MPF (e.g. TalkTalk) can continue as normal beyond the 2025 PSTN deadline (although I suspect eventually they'll want to decommission their kit too!).