Dial tone on landline after porting number

I have a FTTP connection with Community Fibre and I have just ported my BT landline number over to A&A. All is working. My issue is that I still have a dial tone on my BT line after the port. Is that expected? I had expected the line to go dead. I plan to disconnect the incoming BT line from my master socket so that I can connect my ATA to it and use all my existing phone extensions. Is there going to be any problem disconnecting the incoming line if there is still a dial tone?

Unless you have cancelled the landline you are still paying line rental and I expect another number has been assigned to that line.
You may be able to find out the new number if you use it to call a mobile that shows the caller ID (without answering).

In any case the PSTN dialling tone is generated by exchange equipment for an active line in the sense that it does not really care what telephone number in a database happens to point to that line.

Edited by prlzx (Mon 13-Nov-23 21:28:13)

It will go dead in a few days

In reply to a post by prlzx:

You may be able to find out the new number if you use it to call a mobile that shows the caller ID (without answering).

Dial 17070 and it will tell you the number

Thanks I knew there was a service number but could not remember it,
good that either way it will show if the existing line is still able to place a call to a known number.

Edited by prlzx (Mon 13-Nov-23 22:19:37)

After my CityFibre fibre broadband was installed, I didn't want to just hack the incoming BT/OR copper so I contacted OpenReach and they readily agreed to formally disconnect their cable (which wasn't still connected to anything at the exchange as far as I could tell). The very helpful guy chopped the line and even removed the wall box that had been nailed in place by the builder 50 years ago. Then I filled all the holes and redecorated, with no trace of the old master socket. This was all done FOC.

Edited by cjn (Mon 13-Nov-23 23:17:18)

All BT services have definitely been cancelled. I’ve had a “we’re sorry to see you go” email from BT. However, when I dial 17070 I do get a number reported, the ring back test fails however and I get a “failed to connect your call” if I dial the number. It’s also not possible to make outgoing calls as I get an “Unrecognised number” message before dialling is complete.

My question is whether it’s safe to disconnect the incoming connection to the master socket when the line is in this state, or should I wait until it goes dead?

In reply to a post by coyrls:

My question is whether it’s safe to disconnect the incoming connection to the master socket when the line is in this state, or should I wait until it goes dead?

Do what you need to do

I believe the master socket is in effectively NTE and remains the property of OpenReach especially on the supply side, subscribers are only meant to access the faceplate or test socket behind it.

So I would not touch the supply side and would probably at most use a multimeter to detect when the DC line voltage is no longer present.

OpenReach usually handles whether there needs to be a physical disconnection of a line as the next (hypothetical) person to order service over that cable would have paid a new connection charge either way.

If your extension wiring currently connects to the rear of the faceplate such that it gets unplugged when you lift off the faceplate then I expect you do need to unplug that to achieve the outcome, so you might need some kind of blank box to reattach it to, unless the original provider can advise more definitively.

Edited by prlzx (Tue 14-Nov-23 15:18:44)

In reply to a post by prlzx:

I believe the master socket is in effectively NTE and remains the property of OpenReach

Yes its a demarcation point but it no longer has an active paid for service on it. It may not lose dial tone or 50V for many many months yet as it now has soft dial tone on it.

In reply to a post by coyrls:

My question is whether it’s safe to disconnect the incoming connection to the master socket when the line is in this state, or should I wait until it goes dead?

Why not ask OR to disconnect the copper? It all becomes their problem then.

In reply to a post by cjn:

In reply to a post by coyrls:

My question is whether it’s safe to disconnect the incoming connection to the master socket when the line is in this state, or should I wait until it goes dead?

Why not ask OR to disconnect the copper? It all becomes their problem then.

The way I understand it is that OR don't deal with retail customers, I don't know how I would contact them or what contract I have with them.

In reply to a post by coyrls:

In reply to a post by cjn:

In reply to a post by coyrls:

My question is whether it’s safe to disconnect the incoming connection to the master socket when the line is in this state, or should I wait until it goes dead?

Why not ask OR to disconnect the copper? It all becomes their problem then.

The way I understand it is that OR don't deal with retail customers, I don't know how I would contact them or what contract I have with them.

Try this, it worked for me.
https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/when-to-g...

Edited by cjn (Tue 14-Nov-23 22:16:37)

In reply to a post by cjn:

In reply to a post by coyrls:

In reply to a post by cjn:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Why not ask OR to disconnect the copper? It all becomes their problem then.

The way I understand it is that OR don't deal with retail customers, I don't know how I would contact them or what contract I have with them.

Try this, it worked for me.
https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/when-to-g...

I looked there. The options are.....
First contact your Service Provider: I no longer have an OR supported service provider
Reporting network damage or a health & safety issue: No damage or health and safety issue
Questions about Fibre Broadband availability: not relevant
Thanking an engineer: not relevant

Edited by coyrls (Wed 15-Nov-23 00:01:08)

Use this link:

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-pr...

Officially the NTE is Openreach property and shouldn’t be interfered with by the consumer , regardless of no longer being an active customer of a provider using that Openreach asset, but in reality who will know ?, there is no Openreach ‘team’ waiting to pounce , obviously should service be required again over that copper pair , if it’s disconnected at the master socket , intervention would be needed to reconnect the external copper pair , that is if the OP disconnects it.
As far as the continuation of the 50v and soft dialtone , all perfectly normal given that the ‘line’ will have been stop/renumbered when the number port was requested

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 15-Nov-23 08:33:32)

If you're a ducted underground feed I wouldn't have Openreach visit to pull your copper out, it could be useful to have the cable there for when they get around to deploying FTTP in your area. My duct takes a couple of turns and nobody has tried rodding it, but Openreach were happy to use the old copper to pull fibre in a few weeks ago.

If you're overhead then you can ignore this as you won't have the same issues.

Disconnecting the line coming into your master socket is something you can do yourself and nobody is going to come after you for it, just keep the wires away from each other or cut them short so there's no bare copper showing so they can't touch.

In reply to a post by jpm:

If you're a ducted underground feed I wouldn't have Openreach visit to pull your copper out, it could be useful to have the cable there for when they get around to deploying FTTP in your area. My duct takes a couple of turns and nobody has tried rodding it, but Openreach were happy to use the old copper to pull fibre in a few weeks ago.

If you're overhead then you can ignore this as you won't have the same issues.

Disconnecting the line coming into your master socket is something you can do yourself and nobody is going to come after you for it, just keep the wires away from each other or cut them short so there's no bare copper showing so they can't touch.

Thanks that makes sense. It is an underground feed.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Officially the NTE is Openreach property and shouldn’t be interfered with by the consumer , regardless of no longer being an active customer of a provider using that Openreach asset

All this about it being the property of Openreach and it must not be touched is all from a bygone age when they had some clout because of being a monopoly but that doesn't fly with me anymore. My house my rules and if they don't like what I do with my house they can take me to court.

I suspect the courts will side with the network operator. If you want Openreach wires removed ask them.

It's normal, when a line is "disconnected", to leave dial tone on there. It's physically still connected to a port in the exchange. The dialtone will die in December 2025 at the latest.

It's also normal to leave the copper and master socket in place. Unless you're in an Openreach "stop sell" area, and also have Openreach FTTP available to your property, then it's quite possible that you (or a future occupant of the property) could order a copper-based FTTC/SOGEA service.

If the issue is your extension wiring, then you can simply disconnect that from the master socket and connect to your ATA to it.

In a modern master socket, the extension wiring comes to a separate port which you are allowed to touch - and if you pull the front plate off, it's automatically disconnected, so that the internal test socket is for the outside line only. There are rumoured to be special "voice reinjection" faceplates which isolate the extension wiring. But really, you can just disconnect it from the extension Krone points.

If you have an older master socket then you should just go ahead and remove the extension wiring connection from inside it by hand.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I suspect the courts will side with the network operator. If you want Openreach wires removed ask them.

I don't know why people are making such an issue about it. Just call OR and they will do it. The chance of needing old copper wires, once fibre has arrived, is negligible.

Because fibre from Openreach is a dream for many towns.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I suspect the courts will side with the network operator. If you want Openreach wires removed ask them.

Nothing like this is going to get anywhere near a court.

The only scenario I can imagine it could is if someone did something actively dangerous and reckless at their end of the wiring, but I've no great desire to give people ideas.

I don't think Openreach will be much fussed if wires do get cut, but as said upthread one should ensure there's no chance of a short circuit.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Because fibre from Openreach is a dream for many towns.

I don't follow this. If you don't have any fibre you don't want to disconnect the copper. When I had CF fibre installed OR willingly disconnected their old copper.

Although apparently possible to ask and get OR to agree to come out and disconnect the incoming pair , it’s an odd thing for them to agree to , it’s an ‘unnecessary’ expense for consumers that are not currently users of Openreach and should the pair potentially be reused, by either the current occupants ( by switching back to SoGEA for example ) or new occupants using an Openreach based provider, then it’s more expense to visit to reconnect the now disconnected pair at the master socket .
The more appropriate solution has been stated , the extension wiring and customer owned sockets incorporated into the consumer’s own wiring arrangements , possibly by siting a new socket near the OR NTE5 and transferring the existing extension wiring from the consumer panel of the NTE5 ,
In practical terms though , simply removing the copper pair oneself at the rear of the NTE isn’t going to be noticed by OR .

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

In practical terms though , simply removing the copper pair oneself at the rear of the NTE isn’t going to be noticed by OR .

I do wonder why you bothered posting below to then do a U turn with above.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Officially the NTE is Openreach property and shouldn’t be interfered with by the consumer , regardless of no longer being an active customer of a provider using that Openreach asset

I thought it was pretty clear , it’s like speeding , we know we shouldn’t do it , probably have all transgressed to some extent , if caught , it’s a ‘fair cop’ and you pay the penalty, but unlike speeding, there isn’t any Openreach police waiting to catch you out, so unlike you, I don’t really see a contradiction, stating you shouldn’t do it ,( interfere with OR kit ) but if you did no one would know about it because no one is looking, I’m not advocating one way or the other , no doubt the OP will do whatever they feel appropriate, if fact disconnecting the pair wasn’t really the issue , it was the fact that the pair still had ‘conditions’ on it , and would that cause problems, and as others had explained, if the wiring was isolated, it wouldn’t cause issues.

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 17-Nov-23 11:52:13)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

there isn’t any Openreach police waiting to catch you out

You sounded like the Openreach police when you made your first post 🤣 maybe with the 2 post combined it wouldn't have been so bad 😎

In reply to a post by coyrls:

I have a FTTP connection with Community Fibre and I have just ported my BT landline number over to A&A. All is working. My issue is that I still have a dial tone on my BT line after the port. Is that expected? I had expected the line to go dead. I plan to disconnect the incoming BT line from my master socket so that I can connect my ATA to it and use all my existing phone extensions. Is there going to be any problem disconnecting the incoming line if there is still a dial tone?

Perfectly normal. It'll be assigned another number and then may sit like that for some time. Eventually, it will get disconnected if not reused if/when capacity is needed.

At some point it'd get disconnected entirely anyhow as part of the shut down of PSTN.

I have climbed up a ladder in the past and cut the telephone wire at the point it was attached to my property and left it hanging at the post. I removed the remaining cable and NT5E box from my property. A few weeks later I noticed that Openreach had been out and removed the cut cable from the post... Never heard anything about it from Openreach.