connect multiple existing phones to new VOIP

I have several existing phones and am looking into changing my access to VOIP. This will have to be a FTTC solution as I cannot get FTTP at my home yet. A complicated situation as my existing BT Openreach line is fed overhead via a shared pole owned by the power company. I am currently using FTTC for data.

I have a filtered replacement NTE5 which has one port to plug in the router and one with an ADSL filter for all telephone extensions which connects to fixed cables to other extensions around my property although there need only be one (currently two). These extension sockets all are filtered by the NTE without the need for separate ADSL filters on each phone. Good old fashioned wiring!

I could have cordless phones everywhere else with a standard corded phone for emergency use with no power. Note I do have a UPS next to where the router would be.

I am being pre-emptive in looking at a VOIP solution but am having a problem with my current choice of new ISP (Vodaphone). I believe that the wiring will need to be adapted to connect to the VOIP port on the new router. They are telling me that they will not send an engineer to adapt my wiring (which I assume should be relatively trivial) to plug my exiting extensions into the new router. I could restrict this, if necessary to just one extension but any devices would need the wiring to be slightly modified. I do have a second phone for loss of power situations that could be plugged into the second port on the router.

Am I right in thinking this should be relatively trivial with the right tools?

I am assuming that any wiring modifications would be relatively trivial but Vodaphone has so far declined to send an engineer.

Is there any technical reason why a VOIP router with an analog phone adaptor cannot copy with multiple extension? This should be fairly simple to implement with an external junction box. Am I right?

An ATA or a router should cope with anything which can be connected to a PSTN line. So fixed landline phones, Dect systems etc to a REN of 4 or less.

As you are going to VOIP, your filtered NTE5 does little for you, beyond providing the right connector for your router. [As an aside, I would be interested to know from others what Open reach provides as an NTE on a SOGEA line...]. What you need to do is prise out from your NTE5 replacement the wires to your existing extensions and put them in a new box and lash up a connection to the ATA connector on your router.

There's a guide to how to do the extension wiring tweaks here. It should be fairly straightforward.
Personally I would try to set up VoIP with a 3rd party provider (Voipfone, Sipgate etc) that's different from the ISP you use for data. Then they are decoupled and you can switch either one without affecting the other (much). But you have to be careful that porting an existing number out doesn't automatically cease the data line too, so be sure you know what you are doing if you try this. Might be simpler to wait till FTTP comes your way, cos then ceasing the copper line is what you would want to do.

It is a long time since I fitted the NTE and as I am now of relatively advance years (over 81) I would prefer to get someone to do this for me (it is a bit fiddly in the cupboard where the NTE5 is) hence getting annoyed with Vodaphone who originally said an engineer would visit and I assumed, from their blurb, would tweak the cables but after I signed up said they would not visit - it was up to me to do the rewiring. I have now cancelled my contract with them and will stick the current voice solution. I get adequate bandwidth and could double it if I paid a bit more.

Now I know more about what needs to be done (I have never bothered investigating before - when still working about 8 years ago I was a network security architect) I may think about getting preparatory work done and then try again.

FTTP is available to just two properties in our lane but I think there is now a legal issue with pole sharing to our property and beyond. Our electricity and telephone share the same pole (actually in my garden) and I understand that pole sharing is not normally allowed now. I do get a wayleave payment from both power and BT. The power people however actually own the pole and that is distrusted overhead. All the BT voice cables along most of our narrow country lane road come out of a duct (which I know is blocked) up the shared pole and then get distributed to about 10-15 properties north and 2 south of us. The two properties that could get FTTP do not share their pole with power and are presumably routed directly from the street cabinet across a main road rather than down our country lane.

I was just hoping that I could go fully digital now over FTTC prior to FTTP being available but it is no problem to wait until we are forced to go to FTTP and I can then play the age card even more effectively! I do get adequate bandwidth already.

If you want to have wired phones then I would suggest using something like a Cisco ATA 191. For Dect phones there is the Gigaset N300 which works best with Gigaset Dect phones. You can buy the phones and the N300 as a bundle.

The N300 can be connected to a wired phone line as well as several VOIP ISPs

You might find it easier to buy preconfigured equipment from a Voip ISPs such as Voipfone or A&A

In reply to a post by steelej02:

I have now cancelled my contract with them and will stick the current voice solution.

Whilst the PSTN switch-off has been pushed back from Dec 2025 to Jan 2027 you will have to migrate to SOGEA + VoIP at some point before then if FTTP is still not available.
The budget ISPs don't seem interested in providing an option to select the more expensive Openreach installation options which includes voice reinjection (VRI). Given the belated action to check the operation of wired telehealth devices https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/10405-government... hopefully this will improve support for others who may rely on wired phones with large buttons and/or amplifiers connected via extension wiring.

Our electricity and telephone share the same pole (actually in my garden) and I understand that pole sharing is not normally allowed now.

IIRC in the early days of FTTP rollout there were no agreements in place for adding fibre on joint-use poles, however this was resolved between Openreach and the electricty DNOs. There may be other issues for specific poles, e.g. being in a poor state of repair and requiring replacement, which could delay rollout plans.

The two properties that could get FTTP do not share their pole with power and are presumably routed directly from the street cabinet across a main road rather than down our country lane.

The copper cabinet isn't relevant to FTTP. Groups of customer connections are combined at splitter nodes, these in turn are combined at aggregation nodes on fibre spine to the head-end exchange. There may be an aggregation node near the copper cabinet DSLAM, but not necessarily.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

I would be interested to know from others what Open reach provides as an NTE on a SOGEA line...]. What you need to do is prise out from your NTE5 replacement the wires to your existing extensions and put them in a new box and lash up a connection to the ATA connector on your router.

A&A cover this here https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_to:_Voice_reinjec...

Fritz!Box offers a number of routers that support DECT to VOIP. The box has a built in base station. I have a F!B4060 connected to a FTTP line with a mixture of Fritz and Gigaset phones. Phones must support the DECT-GAP profile. Prior to FTTP, I was happily using my DECT phones on a FTTC line with a single filter on the incoming phone line.

I use AAISP as my VOIP provider.

I do now think I know what needs to be done to change my wiring. The real problem is my advancing years! I may even still have some of the tools necessary although it is getting on for 10 years since I did any such wiring. I am now over 80 and would rather pay to have the minor changes made. Vodaphone, before I tried to place an order, strongly implied that an engineer would attend and, I assumed, would adjust my wiring appropriately. When I succeeded in placing an order (even that was difficult for unknown reasons - it took at least 1 hour on the phone to get the order accepted) the confirmation then stated no engineer visit was necessary and Vodaphone have refused to reverse this decision. I have therefore cancelled the order but need to know the facts to be forewarned for the future and I am forced to change!

As far as I can see all it requires is for the internal phone wiring to be terminated in a junction box outside the NTE5 and a single cable, with the appropriate connector, fed to the new router. There is actually only one cable running from a junction box in the loft immediately above through a plasterboard wall so it might be as simple as removing this cable from the NTE5 and just adding a connector to this cable to plug into the router to solve the voice connectivity issue. I was expecting this would be a trivial task for an engineer supporting the installation.

I have not looked into the existing network cabbing but I envisage that my existing Ethernet connection to an adjacent NAS box to an ethernet port in my existing router which also supports WiFi (both 2.4 and 5 Ghz being used) would also be easy to set up with a new router. I expect I may need to change the WiFi settings on all of my devices.

I do prefer to have just one supplier for all such devices and services to simplify support. I have technical knowledge to be able support multiple vendor devices at present but ,being of advancing years, this ability may not last. I do have to be realistic and keep it as simple.as possible

The two properties I mantined are on the opposite side of a main road from the BT Openreach cabinets. One cabinet looks newer and is probably used for fibre. This is about half a mile from the local telephone exchange.

All other properties are fed via a duct under our lane to a shared pole in my garden. I believe there is a blockage in this duct. BT were scheduled to investigate this blockage about 2 years ago but their scheduled road closure was usurped by the water company without their permission and they were prevented from conducting their investigation and have not tried since.

The rest of our village is being cabled for fibre (there is equipment being mounted on many of the poles - not sure what this is), but our road has not yet been done, Our road is the only one I am aware of nearby where power and BT share the same poles. The power DNO, I believe, owns the poles.

There is a bundle of copper telephone cables emerging from a duct under the lane just outside my boundary (BT can never find the access just outside my fence - I always have to show them where it is) that runs to the top of the pole and then is distributed both up and down the lane. Phone lines are delivered to each property overhead but power is fed underground.

In reply to a post by steelej02:

. . . .I expect I may need to change the WiFi settings on all of my devices. . . .

Depending on how locked-down your new router is it would be easier to change the WiFI settings on one router than on a multitude of devices. The WiFi details for our devices have not been changed in 20 years although we have had a number of routers, additional access points and a cheap and cheerful Mesh system in that time.

How many telephone numbers do you have/want?

I ask this since my Technicolor DGA0122 Router is currently serving two VoIP telephone numbers. One line has 2 analogue phones on it and the other line has 5 analoge phones.

My Technicolor Router was supplied by A&A along with FTTP, but they can do the same with FTTC.

I also have a Cisco 191 ATA which can do the same, but not as easy to set up.

The analogue output from the router is via a RJ11 socket and you could use a standard RJ11 to BT Style plug to plug. Pins 2&3 of the RJ11 go to pins 2&5 of the BT plug. If you have had a copper dropwire removed when converting to FTTP you can simply plug the converting lead above into the router and any BT socket. If you are still using FTTC, thus needing the dropwire you would need to make some wiring changes. A&A have instructions here>

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_to:_Voice_reinjec...

Any questions please ask.

Cheers!

It is a very simple domestic situation. Only one phone number required and all extensions are in parallel. They are fed from an NTE incorporating a single common ADSL filter which I am presuming will no longer be needed.

I currently have one cordless base station with several cordless handsets plus one old fashioned phone. That was included in case of power cuts. I do have a UPS adjacent to where the router is so I could switch off my NAS and have several hours of power available so the old phone could still work always assuming of course that the fibre network also has battery backup.

Note that I will need FTTC for now if I am going to change from my current setup. FTTP is not yet available at my property with no date that I can find when it will be. I can only speculate why. I believe FTTP is available in most of the village.

In reply to a post by steelej02:

I do prefer to have just one supplier for all such devices and services to simplify support. I have technical knowledge to be able support multiple vendor devices at present but ,being of advancing years, this ability may not last. I do have to be realistic and keep it as simple.as possible

If your preference is to “one stop shop” your broadband and voice provision with your ISP, then the simplest way forward is to use the router that they provide and just re-arrange your internal extension wiring at the master socket for “voice re-injection” from the voice port of the router.

This means you can keep all your existing wired extensions, wireless bases etc how they are but the voice service originates from the RJ11 port on the router rather than the master socket.

The key thing is to make sure the incoming pair from the street, is fully and totally disconnected from your extension cabling.

If your preference is to “one stop shop” your broadband and voice provision with your ISP, then the simplest way forward is to use the router that they provide and just re-arrange your internal extension wiring at the master socket for “voice re-injection” from the voice port of the router.

That is exactly what I wanted to do! That is what I wanted an engineer to do as part of the installation. I did not know the detailed work then (I think I do now).

Vodaphone stated that an engineer would come and install/configure the router before I placed the order and then refused to comply! The order is now cancelled. My current ISP will increase the cost in February and I believe that Plusnet have announced that they will cease supporting telephone. They currently provide both broadband and telephone to my property and have done since before they were bought by BT many years ago, .I have moved house twice since. I even worked for part of BT when I first joined them probably about 25 years ago - they were significantly cheaper than even the staff discount for broadband but not for telephone. My most expensive telephone bill during that time (several years) was about 15p for a quarter. They paid the standing charge and a generous call allowance. When I was forced to retire from BT (age 60) I then used Plusnet for telephone.

Technically I could do this change to my wiring if I had all of the necessary tools/plugs/sockets/cables etc. required and still retained the dexterity to do this in a slightly awkward space. Even 5 years ago I could have done it without any problem but it at over 80 it is getting more difficult. I now I want someone else to do this task but I also want to keep my "down time" to a minimum while the change takes place. I may have to wait until FTTP becomes available and that WILL need an engineer to run the fibre to my property.

Regarding doing the physical wiring work:

You might want to consider asking a local to do this. You might find someone through the "Checkatrade" network. Also many areas get a leaflet delivered ocassionally with ads for local businesses and tradesmen.

The type I'm thinking of would have called themselves "telephone engineers" in the past. You might get lucky and find an old Openreach person who wants to do some oddjobs. These are the guys who would at one time have installed extra internal phone sockets throughout the house.

Regarding Vodafone's engineer: most likely their engineer would have been limited to making sure your router was installed and working, i.e., getting internet. I don't think any of the ISPs nowadays will be installing internal wiring or handsets.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll find someone to do this.

In reply to a post by steelej02:

That is exactly what I wanted to do! That is what I wanted an engineer to do as part of the installation. I did not know the detailed work then (I think I do now).
...
Technically I could do this change to my wiring if I had all of the necessary tools/plugs/sockets/cables etc. required and still retained the dexterity to do this in a slightly awkward space. Even 5 years ago I could have done it without any problem but it at over 80 it is getting more difficult. I now I want someone else to do this task but I also want to keep my "down time" to a minimum while the change takes place. I may have to wait until FTTP becomes available and that WILL need an engineer to run the fibre to my property.

Just had a google to to see if there's any ready made kits available that could simplify the DIY task for you.

Found these guys selling a VOIP Voice Reinjection Faceplate/Kit, for around £26 that may be able to help you:

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates...

Edit: sorry there's a bit of VAT and delivery to be added to that, but probably still will be cheaper than getting a tradie in to do it.

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 23-Nov-24 22:36:59)

Hi,

From what I can see, you only have a wired phone to cope with power cuts.

If that is the case then a VoIP / DECT solution with UPS backup will give you exactly the same functionality, at least until the UPS / handset batteries run out.

Assuming that your router / NAS / UPS are in a location suitable for the DECT base unit then the answer is simply to buy a Gigaset N300, or similar, connect it to the UPS and router and forget about the wiring completely.

My shelf where the router is located is located is currently full with a NAS, ADSL router, CCTV recorder for multiple cameras, TV video distribution amplifier, Below this is it our coat cupboard. My 10 way power consumer unit for the property is also just above this shelf as is a wall mounted TV distribution unit. My UPS is also wall mounted.

Our cordless phone base station is in our living room as it is also the answering machine for recoding messages so I do not want that to be hidden away on an already crowded shelf above eye level.

I do have one wired phone there for power cuts - I could plug my router into my UPS but that was intended for the NAS to protect it from poser cuts. It had been know for it to take 48 hours to recover from an unexpected power cut which used to be frequent - about 4 or 5 a year lasting from a few seconds to an hour or more. They have been far less frequent in the past three years so it is less of a problem. I probably do not need that phone now.

If I switched my NAS off I could power the router for several hours.

I am certain that with minor adjustment to the cabling there would be no problem. It is just that I am not yet sure what adjustments to the cabling are necessary and whether I can identify what new cables I might need, and whether I still have the right connectors and have retained the skills at my age (80+) to make them up if needed.

Hi,

In reply to a post by steelej02:

My shelf where the router is located is located is currently full with a NAS, ADSL router, CCTV recorder for multiple cameras, TV video distribution amplifier, Below this is it our coat cupboard. My 10 way power consumer unit for the property is also just above this shelf as is a wall mounted TV distribution unit. My UPS is also wall mounted.

Our cordless phone base station is in our living room as it is also the answering machine for recoding messages so I do not want that to be hidden away on an already crowded shelf above eye level.

I do have one wired phone there for power cuts - I could plug my router into my UPS but that was intended for the NAS to protect it from poser cuts. It had been know for it to take 48 hours to recover from an unexpected power cut which used to be frequent - about 4 or 5 a year lasting from a few seconds to an hour or more. They have been far less frequent in the past three years so it is less of a problem. I probably do not need that phone now.

If I switched my NAS off I could power the router for several hours.

I am certain that with minor adjustment to the cabling there would be no problem. It is just that I am not yet sure what adjustments to the cabling are necessary and whether I can identify what new cables I might need, and whether I still have the right connectors and have retained the skills at my age (80+) to make them up if needed.

If you look at the N300A (which is the N300 with an integrated answering machine) then it can be hidden away. The answering machine is entirely controlled from the handsets which have separate charging cradles. The N300A is wall mountable if you have any space left on the wall.

It would make sense to power both the router and any VoIP equipment from the UPS - the power consumption is likely to be low compared to the NAS so it shouldn't have a massive impact on run time.

I'm just trying to come up with the simplest solution - once you've gone VoIP with a battery backup (your UPS) then there is no benefit to a wired phone and trying to keep it just adds extra complication.

Of course, many VoIP services have an answering machine built in so you may not need your own answering machine anyway.

Thanks for that additional information. It looks like an elegant solution but it does however add significantly to the cost. I have 4 cordless handsets at present with one being the base station/answering machine. Your suggestion would seem to add about £200 to what was otherwise a near zero cost migration to an interim FTTC solution for voice and a very slightly cheaper monthly cost.

This situation has arisen because my current contract with Plusnet for ADSL broadband/telephone is nearing its end and for several reasons I am considering moving to another broadband/phone provider.

I do not yet have any date for FTTP availability at my address (there appears to be a technical/contractual problem with our road) so I am considering moving to an interim FTTC voice/data solution although I do not need any more bandwidth over my existing FTTC data service..

Apart from this issue of connecting my existing phones the net cost to me is around zero give or take an odd cable. A contract with Vodaphone for example would be very slightly cheaper than Plusnet.

I realise that I do not have the current technical knowledge of what is available on the market as I have not needed needed to keep up since I retired. Prior to that I was fully up to date with the technology. Suggestions made here are however being very helpful

Hi,

In reply to a post by steelej02:

Thanks for that additional information. It looks like an elegant solution but it does however add significantly to the cost. I have 4 cordless handsets at present with one being the base station/answering machine. Your suggestion would seem to add about £200 to what was otherwise a near zero cost migration to an interim FTTC solution for voice and a very slightly cheaper monthly cost.

This situation has arisen because my current contract with Plusnet for ADSL broadband/telephone is nearing its end and for several reasons I am considering moving to another broadband/phone provider.

I do not yet have any date for FTTP availability at my address (there appears to be a technical/contractual problem with our road) so I am considering moving to an interim FTTC voice/data solution although I do not need any more bandwidth over my existing FTTC data service..

Apart from this issue of connecting my existing phones the net cost to me is around zero give or take an odd cable. A contract with Vodaphone for example would be very slightly cheaper than Plusnet.

I realise that I do not have the current technical knowledge of what is available on the market as I have not needed needed to keep up since I retired. Prior to that I was fully up to date with the technology. Suggestions made here are however being very helpful

OK, noting that the cost of a N300A plus one handset is £84.99; assuming that they are GAP compliant you could reuse your other DECT handsets.

If you just want to wire from an analogue port on your router then I would get:
1. A cable with the right connector for the router on one end (usually a RJ11) and a BT connector on the other. If it is an RJ11 then those leads are quite common (used for phones, modems, faxes, etc.). if your router has a BT style socket then BT to BT patch leads are available.

2. A twin BT socket (you may need a master if you want to guarantee that all phones ring correctly).

I'd then remove the extension wiring from the existing BT master and connect it to the new twin socket making sure that all the extension wiring is isolated from the incoming phone line. You can then simply plug your existing phone into one socket and the lead from the router into the other - job done (from a wiring perspective at least).

I have been looking at my existing wiring n=and contemplating alternatives with minimal changes
I have never tried putting a link in here but these were my thoughts. The diagram is published on my own website shows the existing configuration installed bout 8 years ago when I was somewhat more agile.(now over 80!).

https://www.soroban.co.uk/extra-files/VOIP%20router%...

This solution would add voice back to the FTTC path back to the local box - I don't know if it would cause problems.

IF this solution works then then all I might need would be some readily available low cost cables e.g. BT to RJ11. I envisage any similar solution only surviving until FTTP becomes available but I di need something that is very easy to do which takes very little time when/if IP voice is configured.

It has proved more complex that I originaly expected toswitch to voice over FTTC.

For Voice Re-Injection (VRI); in terms of keeping / reusing your extension cabling from the voice output port of a VOIP equipped router, you've basically got two options:

1. Modify your existing (NTE5c master socket with VDSL-specific) faceplate, as per the instructions on A&A website. This is the cheapest method, but requires a bit of dexterity getting the back cover off the faceplate and some snipping with a pair of small cutters to remove un-wanted components on the faceplate circuit board.

2. Obtain a "SOGEA VRI Isolation" like replacement front plate, as per my post above. *IF* your existing socket is an NTE5c, then this is the least hassle method, as its literally just a faceplate swap out, but has a modest cost.

It has proved more complex that I originaly expected toswitch to voice over FTTC.

There really are just two factors it boils down to: (a) in the simplest scenario you can run all your existing phones from the voice port on the router, instead of the BT wall outlet and (b) ensure you isolate the external/incoming BT line from your extensions (and voice port on the router). Either of the options (1) or (2) above will suffice.

Hi,

In reply to a post by steelej02:

I have been looking at my existing wiring n=and contemplating alternatives with minimal changes
I have never tried putting a link in here but these were my thoughts. The diagram is published on my own website shows the existing configuration installed bout 8 years ago when I was somewhat more agile.(now over 80!).

https://www.soroban.co.uk/extra-files/VOIP%20router%...

This solution would add voice back to the FTTC path back to the local box - I don't know if it would cause problems.

IF this solution works then then all I might need would be some readily available low cost cables e.g. BT to RJ11. I envisage any similar solution only surviving until FTTP becomes available but I di need something that is very easy to do which takes very little time when/if IP voice is configured.

It has proved more complex that I originaly expected toswitch to voice over FTTC.

What you show in your PDF will not work. There MUST be no electrical connection between the extension wiring and the incoming ADSL/VSDL line, except via your router and at the moment you are not showing that you are modifying the NTE5.

If you want to minimise wiring changes then Pheasant's suggestion to use a VRI faceplate is the simplest solution. I didn't suggest it for two reasons - (1) They are quite difficult to get hold of and (2) I would prefer to keep the incoming line and the extension wiring in separate boxes to keep it clear that they are electrically separate. If you really want to go down that path then "run it direct" do a VRI kit which looks very much like it is a standard Openreach NTE modified as suggested on the A&A website. That is £26.99, a bit expensive for what it is but it comes with all the leads you might need.

i still feel that providing you have the money available then going for a VoIP DECT solution and retiring the extension wiring is the simplest and easiest option.

@steelej02 - I’ve sent you a PM.

I use a Fritz!box 7530.
Have connected the phone socket on the Fritz!box to the phone socket on the BT mastersocket AFTER pulling out the faceplate.
If your extension wiring has been done properly all your extensions are now connec ed to the ATA built into the router.

Crude but works for testing
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/9Q79vYMN/Phone-connection.jpg[/img]
Just connect phone socket on router to unplugged front plate

In reply to a post by rarrar:

Crude but works for testing
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/9Q79vYMN/Phone-connection.jpg[/img]
Just connect phone socket on router to unplugged front plate

All you are doing there is isolating the standard NTE5 faceplate (still having two (?) previously filtered extensions) from the Mk3 xDSL interstitial filter faceplate. Certainly OK for testing VoIP/FTTP in your setup but may not be relevant to the OP. Also a phone can no longer be plugged into the detached faceplate, which may have previously been the case with PSTN, because the router is connected to it via a BT plug to RJ11 plug cable (?)

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 04-Dec-24 21:15:40)

Obviously the router would be plugged into the diagnostic socket and a double adapter used if another phone was needed in the extension half facia.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

]
All you are doing there is isolating the standard NTE5 faceplate (still having two (?) previously filtered extensions) from the Mk3 xDSL interstitial filter faceplate. Certainly OK for testing VoIP/FTTP in your setup but may not be relevant to the OP. Also a phone can no longer be plugged into the detached faceplate, which may have previously been the case with PSTN, because the router is connected to it via a BT plug to RJ11 plug cable (?)

In reply to a post by iannewson:

Obviously the router would be plugged into the diagnostic socket and a double adapter used if another phone was needed in the extension half facia.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

]
All you are doing there is isolating the standard NTE5 faceplate (still having two (?) previously filtered extensions) from the Mk3 xDSL interstitial filter faceplate. Certainly OK for testing VoIP/FTTP in your setup but may not be relevant to the OP. Also a phone can no longer be plugged into the detached faceplate, which may have previously been the case with PSTN, because the router is connected to it via a BT plug to RJ11 plug cable (?)

Are you suggesting that the router could be plugged directly into the NTE5 test socket?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Are you suggesting that the router could be plugged directly into the NTE5 test socket?

That's kind-of the whole point of the test socket: to be able to use the line with the extension wiring disconnected (and hence eliminate extension wiring as a source of problems)

My eyes are starting to bounce together reading through this thread.

From my own experience: Points to note;

(1). Changing to VOIP saved us at least £10.00 per month.

(2). When we changed to VOIP we had a FTTC line with a line speed of about 26 mbps and VOIP worked without problem on our previous FTTC line.

(3). With VOIP; when power to the router goes off your VOIP phone service is off irrespective of the phones being cordless or connected by wires.

(4). When the electric power is off, the easiest form of backup is a mobile phone.

(5). A Sim Only mobile deal with unlimited calls and unlimited texts costs us about £5.00 to £6.00 per month on a rolling one month contract.


Personally I would probably just use mobiles to make and receive calls and would probably scrap the landline but my wife wanted to keep the equivalent of a landline so we changed to VOIP.

If you decide on the VOIP equivalent of a landline: You can create a Heath Robison System that will work by lashing together old bits of kit that you already have, (as others have explained, there are ways to make that work), or you can bite the bullet and update the setup.

Do not forget that changing from a standard PSTN Landline to VOIP saved money, (it saved us over £10.00 per month), which means in a couple of years the cost of updating the phone system is recovered.

Personally, we have two separate VOIP lines, with a Gigaset N300a base station wirelessly connected to six Gigaset C575A Cordless Handsets and it works flawlessly with crystal clear calls.

Best wishes whatever you decide.

Regards,
Fido

Yes, a vote for all that.

In reply to a post by Fido:

(4). When the electric power is off, the easiest form of backup is a mobile phone.

Aye, and if you are in the sticks and the mobile phone base is on the same 11kV circuit as you are ...

This thread has had many helpful replies. From these replies and further research assisted by one oth the responders I now have an update. Thanks to all of your suggestions and comments.

From messages here, ans some PMs with a contact here my thought have developed. Here is the current situation

I intend to modify my internal phone wiring to terminate in a BT socket next to the Maser socket so that whatever solution I adopt it is much easier to connect to. At present it is wired to the BT NTE master socket. A cable can then connect my internet telephone to the BT socket in the NTE. This then will easily support any new service.

A Swish solution of FTTP was suggested. Swish do pass my house left a connection point outside my property.in a metal box in the road and it looked to be a cost effective solution. Here however I hit a snag - out gas main needed to be replaced and Cadnet, sh di this work dug up the road and discarded the metal box for fibre termination filled in their hole and departed. Swish have not yet told me whether they will reinstated the box so I am still unsure where I can use them! I was hoping the Swish would make the minor changes to my internal cabling that I can easily switch over, With the doubt about whether I can get a Swish FTTP solution at all it has been suggested that I order a broadband only connection initially and only order voice to be added once the fibre is working - this makes sense otherwise if the they fail to connect my fibre I could lose my telephone number. That would be a major problem.

My alternative solution is Vodafone with an FTTC connection for now. This is easy once I have rearranged my internal telephone wiring to separate it from my current NTE. I am expecting that thy will have to provide an FTTC solution in the fullness of time but the changeover should then be painless.

I did actually place an order with Vodafone on the expectation that an engineer would visit n changeover day and do the minor rewiring. They then told me an engineer visit was not necessary so I cancelled the order.

I do intend to contact Swish again to see if they will provide a broadband with an intention to migrate my telephone but to defer that until the fibre connection has been successful. This avoids the risk of my number being ported and than I cannot use it if the fibre cannot be connected. This might increase my cost however but If their response is unhelpful I will go with Vodafone. Unfortunately I have been unable to speak to anyone other than a non technical agent. Swish are only slightly cheaper that Vodafone but are going to FTTP straight away whereas Vodafone are FTTC for now with full fibre coming presumably at some, as yet unknown, future date. I would get adequate bandwidth in either case.

Irrespective of the choice between Swish and Vodafone I will try to separate my BT internal wiring to a new single socket to prepare for the change and then will just need a cable to go into the existing NTE BT port until I change to use VOIP and then a will need a different cable to connect to the voice port n the supplier's router.

And if you are that for out in te sticks then the local mini exchange will also be on the same 11kV circuit - maybe an hour or so of local battery power.

In reply to a post by MHC:

And if you are that for out in te sticks then the local mini exchange will also be on the same 11kV circuit - maybe an hour or so of local battery power.

Yep, although I think the fibre comes from somewhere the other side of the 33kV to 11kV sub, so it would take a 33kV outage.

I recognise you are very keen on making use of the internal phone wiring & sockets.

However I think you must accept that any broadband installation engineers are not going to help in any way with tweaking or otherwise working on your existing internal wiring.

Most of these installation people will not have been trained for such work. In fact many won't have any experience at all of internal wiring. They are broadband engineers - they are not telephone engineers. To some of us it would have been one and the same, at one time, but that world has long changed.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by Fido:

(4). When the electric power is off, the easiest form of backup is a mobile phone.

Aye, and if you are in the sticks and the mobile phone base is on the same 11kV circuit as you are ...

You mean like the New Forest? 🤭

I have not had any reply from Swish to my most recent email. I have however drawn up my current proposed migration strategy. I have accepted that I need to get my telephone wring modified first. I think I have a solution that will work for either FTTP to FTTC.

I now have a diagram that shows my thoughts in a diagram on my web site.https://www.soroban.co.uk/extra-files/VOIP.pdf. I would welcome any comments

I intend to modify my phone wiring soon so that my existing telephones are connected to a socket near the current NTE to prepare for the change. I would then temporarily use a separate ADSL filter to connect my existing router and telephones to my existing cable. I might however replace the NTE with an unfiltered one.

This approach is intended to make it easy to go for either a FTTC solution from Vodafone or a full fibre solution from Swish if they are able to connect me.

I have tried to contact Swish today without success as need to plan for either full fibre or FTTC. I do not yet know if they will repair the damage caused by Cadent to the fibre access to the Swsh duct that they provided down the road, If fibre is not possible then I have a Vodafone solution availale.

Using a separate phone socket for terminating the extension(s) is definitely a good plan.

If you go for FTTC+VoIP with the router connected to the NTE5 RJ11 faceplate socket, have the extension(s) disconnected completely from the NTE5, terminated instead at the separate phone socket (in this case if you have a phone that is normally connected directly to the NTE5 then a double phone socket might be desirable) together with a connection from the router's voice port plugged into that socket this could give you a future option.

Such an option might be when FTTP becomes available you can initially run FTTC broadband+voice and FTTP (broadband only) simultaneously on different accounts. In that scenario if a FTTP service proves satisfactory then you could port the phone number to a VoIP provider of your choice and cease the FTTC broadband. At that stage the NTE5 would become fully redundant/isolated from your home network since both voice and broadband would be feed exclusively from the Optical Network Terminal (ONT) via the router.

Hi,

In reply to a post by steelej02:

[...]

I now have a diagram that shows my thoughts in a diagram on my web site.https://www.soroban.co.uk/extra-files/VOIP.pdf. I would welcome any comments

I intend to modify my phone wiring soon so that my existing telephones are connected to a socket near the current NTE to prepare for the change. I would then temporarily use a separate ADSL filter to connect my existing router and telephones to my existing cable. I might however replace the NTE with an unfiltered one.

[...]

That looks good to me but a couple of points:

1. You can just use the existing filtered faceplate rather than a separate ADSL filter for the stage 1 solution.

2. You may need to use a master socket (i.e. with a ring capacitor) as the "new BT socket". Some router voice ports don't drive the BT ring wire and some phones rely on the ring wire in order to ring rather than being able to ring with just a two wire connection. If you get a combination of both then the phone won't ring without a ring capacitor somewhere.

I am at present investigating a FTTP solution which IF it can be connected is an alternative and might be slightly easier to adapt my system and would give me the option to retain my existing phone service during transition.

There is however a possible MAJOR snag! Swish provided an FTTP service down ourabut 2 years ago road and cost wise it now looks competitive with Vodafone. The problem is that Cadent have just replaced our gas main (about three weeks ago) and in doing so they removed the metal box connection point that Swish left embedding in the road. Cadent had to dig down to find my gas main connection and the Swish metal box was in the way and they just removed it, did their work, and filled in the hole in the road.

We are on a narrow road, about 12 ft wide hedge to hedge with no pavement. I am waiting for a call from Swish, having placed a (cancelable) order, to arrange to come and do a survey. I have sent them pictures of the absence of their connection box which Ihave annotated to show approximately where it was ad where the Swish duct was run. The Swish email said 2-3 days for them to call and arrange a date for an initial visit to plan the connection.

Swish costs, for a basic service, are slightly higher than Vodafone but the call charges are cheaper. I am not too concerned about broadband speed. Both solutions give me more than twice the rate I am currently getting on my existing FTTC solution (measured 34Mbps) which is already more than adequate for our needs.

Of course IF I can get a FTTP solution then the internal modifications may need to be slightly different. I have some time before my Plusnet contract expires so I can retain my existing phone connection wiring for a short time. The important warning I have given is to NOT port my telephone number until my new broadband connection has been installed to minimise the risk of losing my number if the broadband installation fails.

In reply to a post by steelej02:

Swish costs, for a basic service, are slightly higher than Vodafone but the call charges are cheaper. I am not too concerned about broadband speed. Both solutions give me more than twice the rate I am currently getting on my existing FTTC solution (measured 34Mbps) which is already more than adequate for our needs.

Of course IF I can get a FTTP solution then the internal modifications may need to be slightly different. I have some time before my Plusnet contract expires so I can retain my existing phone connection wiring for a short time. The important warning I have given is to NOT port my telephone number until my new broadband connection has been installed to minimise the risk of losing my number if the broadband installation fails.

Once your Plusnet FTTC (VDSL + PSTN line rental) contract expires then you can take the next steps regarding broadband migration and number porting to VoIP with another provider or providers. In the mean time you can certainly get the extension wiring and separate phone socket sorted out in preparation for VoIP, possibly in consideration of the future location of an ONT etc.

When out of contact with Plusnet you could get FTTP (broadband only) running simultaneously, on a separate account, with another provider. This would probably be the safest option in the short term and then port the phone number once FTTP is up and running. At that stage successfully porting the phone number would automatically cease the Plusnet VDSL broadband and PSTN line rental.

However a Plusnet FTTC VDSL broadband and PSTN line rental bundle migrated to a VDSL+VoIP account with another provider would hopefully be more straightforward. This would also automatically cease your Plusnet service.

Good luck.

Edit: just to add that I'm running PSTN voice and FTTP broadband - I never went for FTTC VDSL but kept ADSL and once FTTP was installed/activated successfully I ceased the ADSL. In my case ceasing the ADSL did not effect the PSTN landline because they were with different providers. Phone and extension are still feed from the NTE5 and router from the ONT. Since a mobile phone is recommended as back up to VoIP I probably will not bother with it when PSTN is shut down - but just use a mobile.

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 11-Dec-24 21:05:55)

In reply to a post by steelej02:

There is however a possible MAJOR snag! Swish provided an FTTP service down ourabut 2 years ago road and cost wise it now looks competitive with Vodafone. The problem is that Cadent have just replaced our gas main (about three weeks ago) and in doing so they removed the metal box connection point that Swish left embedding in the road. Cadent had to dig down to find my gas main connection and the Swish metal box was in the way and they just removed it, did their work, and filled in the hole in the road.

We are on a narrow road, about 12 ft wide hedge to hedge with no pavement. I am waiting for a call from Swish, having placed a (cancelable) order, to arrange to come and do a survey. I have sent them pictures of the absence of their connection box which Ihave annotated to show approximately where it was ad where the Swish duct was run. The Swish email said 2-3 days for them to call and arrange a date for an initial visit to plan the connection.

How did you get on with Swish - did they come out to survey in the end?

Swish are proving EXTREMELY difficult to deal with. you are only able to talk to an agent who has to pass messages on to their technical team. I have been trying to get an answer to the question -CAN they still connect me. I have had a conversation this afternoon and expressed my displeasure! We will see what happens.

When you sign up they promise that they will contact you within three working days to arrange an installation data- they did not.

I contacted them again and they sent me an email giving their available dates - I replied to the email but did not get a reply so I phoned today an expressed my displeasure. I have still not had any reply or confirmation for a proposed date.

Perhaps Swish are OK if there is nothing unusual. My experience so far has however been dreadful!. Cadent are probably the reason for my difficulty having removed Swish's access point installed in the road but Swish appear to be incapable of giving me an answer to whether this can be reinstated. I have given them until Friday to confirm whether they can supply me a FTTP service otherwise it is back to Vodafone. As that is FTTC there should be no issue with a supply but I will then have to reorganise my internal wiring. In this case I would try to defer the phone number transfer until the broadband has been successfully switched. From my previous discussion with Vodafone they are FAR EASIER to deal with.

Ugh. Sorry to hear. That’s a shame they’ve been so rubbish to deal with.

An update on my situation. I have gone for a FTTP solution Swish as they had installed fibre down our road quite a long time ago. It is working very well so far - about 2 days!

I still have a temporary number and have diverted my lanfine phone number to my temporary phone number an the porting has just been started. It was unexpected that I have just been told this could take 4 weeks as that would take me past my contract end date with Plusnet.

It has taken a much longer time that anyone expected. Swish gave me an installation date but they had not listened to my the warning I gave them that the installation may have challenges.

A long time ago - perhaps 2 years or more - Swish installed ducting in our road with "Toby Pots" with tubes connecting back to a central manhole to provide blown fibres for FTTP to every property. They provided a "Toby pot" for every property that was effectively a tube connected to a Swish manhole in preparation to blow fibre from the property to a connecting to the rest of the world. The snag was that Cadent replaced the gas main in our road in October and while connecting our property to the new main just removed the Toby pot!.

When I placed the order with Swish I pointed this out but they just give me a date in early January. I tried hard to point out that was some doubt about whether the COULD connect me but they refused to let me talk to the installation teams. They asked for a photo showing the Toby pot I sent them a photo of where it USED to be and annotated it with a sketch of the road and where it and their duct is. The installation date was postponed and they sent a team to reinstate the Toby pot. There was then very serious doubt as to whether this was even possible without a road closure and this takes at least 14 weeks to get approval. They then wanted to wait another 4 weeks for the next slot. This could have taken me past my contract date!

They did however return the next week but were unable to blow the fibre down the tube to their termination point. I had at least 5 people here most of the day trying and failing to blow the fibre.

Another team arrived a few days later and realised that the first team were trying to blow it to the wrong manhole!. I think there was also a blockage which they cleared. The fibre was installed a few days later.

After all of this I now have FTTP working but have not yet had my telephone number ported. There is now a serious risk that this might not complete before my current contract ends in two weeks time. They tell me if can take over 4 weeks!

I still have to connect my new digital phone port to my house wiring but at least it is now all working! I am very happy with the network speed and the telephone communication via the temporary telephone number. My incoming calls are diverted to it.

I know there were issues that were not all caused by Swish but the message for Swish is to allow the customer to be able to talk to the teams that do the installation as most of the snags could have been identified much sooner. I have asked three times now for this to be escalated as a complaint but there has been no attempt to contact me back.

In reply to a post by steelej02:

An update on my situation. I have gone for a FTTP solution Swish as they had installed fibre down our road quite a long time ago. It is working very well so far - about 2 days!

I still have a temporary number and have diverted my lanfine phone number to my temporary phone number an the porting has just been started. It was unexpected that I have just been told this could take 4 weeks as that would take me past my contract end date with Plusnet.

I wonder if your diversion will continue once Plusnet end the contract for the line. I expect it will depend on how far the porting order has progressed

Openreach's ordering system has quirks.

I think you'll be OK but a cease on the line might take precedence.

That is what I am concerned about. The original Swish timescale was early January. I have not yet cancelled my contract with Plusnet. I will look again but I THINK it will continue, but with elevated costs, after the contract end date on a monthly basis.

Any facility on the line such as diversions, should end once the number is released by Plusnet - as part of the porting process.

By rights it should take Swish no longer than 5 to 10 days (without jinxing John any further) to effect the number port. Typically its done in 3 to 5 days if there are no hitches.

Once Swish submit the porting request to Plusnet, Plusnet will be obligated to release the number to them. At that point, it will also effect a cease on the bundled service, including the broadband.

Fingers crossed 🤞however you have a working internet and phone service now via Swish, so the main dangers are mitigated. There is a 30 day grace period typically before risk of cherished numbers being lost to the void, once a porting process has begun.

That's the way I was thinking.