I Am Going On To ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip/t/4777967-one...

Speaking to the Openreach and BT Executive office's again about my none standard setup they decided to put me on ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘.
Having told me last year that I was going on a new FTTP service ('WBC FTTP Up to 0.5Mbit/s / 0.5Mbit/s') for the DV/VOIP ( That may still happen one day) as well as keeping my other FTTP connection and Copper Pair.
It will save me some rearranging in my equipment cupboard .
No need for a BBU.
No changes to my phone wiring.

Any one else on SOTAP ?

if you have fttp already ........... which you do. why!

No need for a BBU ?

What happens if you have a power cut ? The router won’t stay on will it, so you will lose the voice service.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

No need for a BBU ?

What happens if you have a power cut ? The router won’t stay on will it, so you will lose the voice service.

I may be wrong but I thought the VOIP to copper transition happened in the exchange so by the time it gets to the property its just like a legacy analogue service so no need for a router or a BBU.

For a short time last year at one of our properties we had DV supplied from equipment in the exchange, this doesn't require power in the home, unless like ours it was a cordless. It is my understanding that this is for homes that have a phoneline with no internet and is supposedly a 'short term' solution.

In reply to a post by burble:

and is supposedly a 'short term' solution.

That was also my understanding

Sometimes I am amazed at the lengths people will go to and the expenses they are happy to rack up to try and push water uphill

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

It will save me some rearranging in my equipment cupboard .

and letting the dinosaurs out.

Oh yeah …. these brain farts are becoming more frequent <sigh>

In my opinion you are just kicking the can down the road, as has been stated SOTAP for analogue is a short term solution and I am surprised that you have been offered it as you already have a broadband service on your copper line and an FTTP connection. I would have thought either of these existing services would rule out SOTAP for analogue. Your discussions with BT seem to have produced an unexpected result.

So what happens when all copper based services are withdrawn? You will have to go to DV/VOIP in some form, but a separate FTTP service just for a phone seems absolutely ridiculous.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Sometimes I am amazed at the lengths people will go to and the expenses they are happy to rack up to try and push water uphill

It's the lengths the 'executive offices' go to to appease certain demographics especially that amaze me. I suppose no-one wants to end up in the Daily Mail next to a sad face picture of a retiree.

It's absurd that they are providing a service that's supposed to be for areas with no fibre to someone with an existing FTTP service so that they don't have to rearrange their cupboard for a BBU. Your fees to your ISPs at work, Openreach customers.

This is what they are dealing with!!

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I could port my number that we have had for 42 years to a VOIP provider (but why should I

Hi,

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip/t/4777967-one...

Speaking to the Openreach and BT Executive office's again about my none standard setup they decided to put me on ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘.
Having told me last year that I was going on a new FTTP service ('WBC FTTP Up to 0.5Mbit/s / 0.5Mbit/s') for the DV/VOIP ( That may still happen one day) as well as keeping my other FTTP connection and Copper Pair.
It will save me some rearranging in my equipment cupboard .
No need for a BBU.
No changes to my phone wiring.

Any one else on SOTAP ?

SOTAP for Analogue is incompatible with the provision of ADSL on the same wires. The implementation of SOTAPfA uses the same infrastructure in the exchange as is used for the provision of ADSL.

When someone comes to implement this I suspect that the order will either (a) stall or (b) result in the disconnection of your ADSL service.

Is you exchange one of the 100 slated to close around 2030? If it is then you've not really achieved much.

In reply to a post by Dassa:

Is you exchange one of the 100 slated to close around 2030? If it is then you've not really achieved much.

If i was OR i'd use Aptman's request as a testing install and see how it goes, but yes he hasn't really achieved much

I was very surprised when they said ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ but Sharon Gibson openreach team an BT Executive office's should know what they are doing I was getting ready for the second FTTP line to be installed (see https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4786007-tw... being BT do not offer a 4 port ONT (I know they are not being installed at the moment due to the 4 port having problems)
So yes no need for a BBU because ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ is like a large ATA box in the exchange and the existing copper pair is used to power our land line phone even during a power cut.
Just to make it clear when BT take my phone number back from Eclipse it will Cease Eclipse ADSL2 (I turned the modem off some time ago but we are still using the free prone minutes up).
‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ you Can Not have any other service running on the copper pair.

What I understand ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ is being used as a last minute attempt to move the 1000's of lines off the POT's system before it closes in January 2027.
I think bulk change over of exchange lines to ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ will take place all over the country, I understand all exchanges have the ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ gear install now.

Yes it's still a Temporary solution until 2030.

Take our village we have 'Arm's Houses' with people will have no clue about FTTP or the internet, they need a basic phone that always works, SOTAP is ideal for them.


You need to think 'outside of the box' that phones / phone lines are not just in peoples houses.
Think about a remote monitoring hut in the middle of nowhere that has no electricity (I can think of some I have worked in many moons ago ) that has a standard POT's phone installed, they will not have or want FTTP or any other internet connection put in,
There are phone lines that are connected to data links for your local water supply network also sewerage systems etc , etc.
There are phone lines to some of our local remote farm buildings with no electric in them.

‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ is an ideal solution for some of these systems and I think it will be with us well after it's retirment in 2030.

Take our village we have 'Arm's Houses'

‘Alm’s houses surely ?

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

You need to think 'outside of the box' that phones / phone lines are not just in peoples houses.
Think about a remote monitoring hut in the middle of nowhere that has no electricity (I can think of some I have worked in many moons ago ) that has a standard POT's phone installed, they will not have or want FTTP or any other internet connection put in,
There are phone lines that are connected to data links for your local water supply network also sewerage systems etc , etc.
There are phone lines to some of our local remote farm buildings with no electric in them.

‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ is an ideal solution for some of these systems and I think it will be with us well after it's retirment in 2030.

Every operator of these types of systems has known for the last nine years that PSTN was being withdrawn, and there's been plenty of opportunity to act accordingly. I have some sympathy for residential users (though none for "I don't want broadband installed") but commercial customers should be embarrassed if they are getting anywhere close to needing this stop-gap.

Post deleted by XGS_Is_On

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

You need to think 'outside of the box' that phones / phone lines are not just in peoples houses.

All these transitional systems like ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ cost money to implement and maintain, I hope those who are unprepared for the switch off of the PSTN are the ones footing the bill for it and not those who have thought ahead and are compliant with the changes.

You could have easily moved your 42 year old number to VOIP and all this ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ nonsense would have been unnecessary for you.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Take our village we have 'Arm's Houses'

‘Alm’s houses surely ?

You should see my posts before the spell checker goes over it.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

You need to think 'outside of the box' that phones / phone lines are not just in peoples houses.

All these transitional systems like ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ cost money to implement and maintain, I hope those who are unprepared for the switch off of the PSTN are the ones footing the bill for it and not those who have thought ahead and are compliant with the changes.

You could have easily moved your 42 year old number to VOIP and all this ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘ nonsense would have been unnecessary for you.

It was BT who made the decision, I was ready now I had moved all my emails off Eclipse to go on BT Digital Voice.

Yes I could port our number to ? and use VOIP on my other FTTP connection and I am quite capable to set it all up (Even bought a ATA box).
But at our age I hope I am responsible to think of my Wife, what I set VOIP up and I died, my wife would not have any clue to get the Voip working if it had a problem.
That's why I am keeping with BT. yes It's costing us more than VOIP but it's piece of mind.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Yes I could port our number to ? and use VOIP on my other FTTP connection and I am quite capable to set it all up (Even bought a ATA box).
But at our age I hope I am responsible to think of my Wife, what I set VOIP up and I died, my wife would not have any clue to get the Voip working if it had a problem.
That's why I am keeping with BT. yes It's costing us more than VOIP but it's piece of mind.

The gentleman doth protest too much.

If you are really concerned about the wife picking up the pieces I would respectfully suggest you consider using an ISP router with a voice jack on the back rather than the mess you're currently creating and leaving for her to sort out.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Take our village we have 'Arm's Houses'

‘Alm’s houses surely ?

Almshouses no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

It was BT who made the decision, I was ready now I had moved all my emails off Eclipse to go on BT Digital Voice.

Yes I could port our number to ? and use VOIP on my other FTTP connection and I am quite capable to set it all up (Even bought a ATA box).
But at our age I hope I am responsible to think of my Wife, what I set VOIP up and I died, my wife would not have any clue to get the Voip working if it had a problem.
That's why I am keeping with BT. yes It's costing us more than VOIP but it's piece of mind.

Thank you for finally expaining you went with this route,none of us could understand why. Have you got any family or friends who are tech savvy to understand something like bt dv or zen voice etc or even a basic ip set up.

from your post you seem upset, i hope you breathing a little better today - i am for one glad you told us why ..

Sotap is a last ditch product so that OR can close the analog phone service. Sotap has a short shelf life.

Taras ❤

In reply to a post by Taras:

Thank you for finally explaining you went with this route

The OP did explain this before in the previous thread. The OP explained about making it simple for the wife but in the same breath said he was going to set up an 'Asterisk open source PBX VOIP system' so the wife can use it everyday!!

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I am quite capable of setting up a VOIP set up through my pfSense firewall over FTTP at the moment, but if in the future that system goes wrong and I am not capable to sort it out do to my health, my wife could not sort it out and she would not have a working phone !.
Remembering as I have said before we do get any mobile signal at all !.

Grandstream HT802 ATA ordered
AA told me they can let me use one of there spare numbers to do some test with VOIP.

Our biggest use of the phone is my Wife calling her sister every day for hours, So I am looking at setting up a 'Asterisk open source pbx VOIP system ' for her to phone her sister for free each day.
Looking at not going through a VOIP provider for this setup.

If the truth be known BT have gone for SOTAP 'for Analogue' rather than FTTP when migrating the OP's line back to BT because Openreach have dropped the use of Multiport ONT's so to give the OP a second FTTP service they would have had to light another port on the OP's dedicated CBT and do the second connectorised cable and ONT so have gone for the easier option.

In reply to a post by hunnymonster:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Take our village we have 'Arm's Houses'

‘Alm’s houses surely ?

Almshouses no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse

Touché.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

If you are really concerned about the wife picking up the pieces I would respectfully suggest you consider using an ISP router with a voice jack on the back rather than the mess you're currently creating and leaving for her to sort out.

Definitely the obvious route. The OP's wife will need to sort it out if she outlasts him beyond the complete shut down of copper, so he should implement a sustainable option now.
BT may be willing to offer SOTAP now but if he is the only customer using it and a costly failure occurs, are they going to repair it?

In reply to a post by Bushy2025:

Definitely the obvious route. The OP's wife will need to sort it out if she outlasts him beyond the complete shut down of copper, so he should implement a sustainable option now.
BT may be willing to offer SOTAP now but if he is the only customer using it and a costly failure occurs, are they going to repair it?

Thats why i suggested if they have a friend or family member who can look after this. i can't see sotap lasting till exchange decommisioning. I wonder if the copper price hikes will affect sotap?

I'm with you on this but I suspect the reason why the OP is creating a Heath Robinson setup is more around them being a retired research scientist. #JustSaying

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I'm with you on this but I suspect the reason why the OP is creating a Heath Robinson setup is more around them being a retired research scientist. #JustSaying

i think we have to respect that there is more is going on that we know. All we can do and rightly so, is to support him to find the right solution. The consensus for him sadly is that we believe sotap is not the answer but he does. For me i've disliked what i've written piror to his last post.

But at the end of the day we have to respect his decision ..

With all due respect Taras the OP isn't showing they are interested in what any of us think and it would be foolish to think he does so all this political correctness about supporting him is just flannel. I believe I hit the nail on the head with what I said, as I have made clear in the past I give me opinion without fear as honesty is the best policy. The OP talks about keeping their broadband/phone environment simple for the wife but does the total opposite, you may not want to spell that out to him but someone needs to otherwise we are just an echo chamber for the OP.

A few years back I was temporary on death's door (until I had an emergency operation) so I simplified my environment to help the wife should I go, my Opnsense router went and so did a lot of the other customised stuff I had created. If the OP believes they are vulnerable to something similar they could learn from that but no they do the total opposite with their Pfsense router, 'Asterisk open source PBX VOIP system' and probably lots of other customised stuff considering what they did for a living before retirement.

Thank you for all your comment's I do read them I have to fit this in with building our own house.
Remember it's not me who chose SOTAP !
We will not pay any more for this service on our BT phone bill.
Re ..Asterisk open source PBX VOIP system.. I had a 'play' with this but it still needed a host for for the connection to it.
I got my wife to try using 'Facetime' to talk to her sister each night but problems at her sisters end caused problems.
We do not have any family members or friends that are near or 'Tech Savvy' .

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I have to fit this in with building our own house.

Didn't you say in a post two years ago that the house was built rather than building

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Remember it's not me who chose SOTAP !

You went to the CEO's offices for both BT and Openreach and probably gave them the whole nine yards about needing a special solution for your complexed needs so what did you expect.

I can appreciate you need to over engineer solutions with your background but sometimes keeping it simple is easier especially in later life or ill health.


Edit: Simple solution to this whole sorry story, migrate your existing FTTP broadband to any ISP who provides Digital Voice, ditch the Pfsense router and use ISP provided one with your 42 year old telephone number. You then have a robust one-stop shop solution for the wife and you going forward. Once this is setup if you must tinker you can do that with an extra ATA without affecting the wife.

Edited by PCJM40 (Sat 04-Apr-26 10:43:18)

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I have to fit this in with building our own house.

Didn't you say in a post two years ago that the house was built rather than building

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Remember it's not me who chose SOTAP !

You went to the CEO's offices for both BT and Openreach and probably gave them the whole nine yards about needing a special solution for your complexed needs so what did you expect.

I can appreciate you need to over engineer solutions with your background but sometimes keeping it simple is easier especially in later life or ill health.


Edit: Simple solution to this whole sorry story, migrate your existing FTTP broadband to any ISP who provides Digital Voice, ditch the Pfsense router and use ISP provided one with your 42 year old telephone number. You then have a robust one-stop shop solution for the wife and you going forward. Once this is setup if you must tinker you can do that with an extra ATA without affecting the wife.

Well been building for 40 years, so It's ongoing, during the winter and bad weather been plastering the 9 rooms upstairs and my wife has been decorating them, now the weathers is getting better my wife and I will be doing jobs in our half acre garden, My Wife will look after the garden and Greenhouse I built her and I have started to sort the Hedge that goes along the field as the Deer have broken through, Re-model the patio, Build a 50 metre long Stone retaining wall etc, etc
We have only employed one man with a JCB at the start of our project.

SOTAP suits me, Will not have to change my 52 phone sockets in our property's
I though SOTAP would be an ideal solution for me after watching an Openreach 'Webinar' about SOTAP. a few years ago.

Your solution is on similar line to what I was thinking in the long run.

Forgot to say that I did have Two ATA box's set up to ring two phones and you could talk via them but then trying to set them up between our house and the sister-in-law there were problems with her VM phone set up she has.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Well been building for 40 years, so It's ongoing, during the winter and bad weather been plastering the 9 rooms upstairs and my wife has been decorating them

Yes I do remember you uploading a picture several years ago showing something or other and just assumed the sorry state of the property was due to it being an old house in major need of renovation.

Will not have to change my 52 phone sockets in our property's

52 phone sockets in the same building ?? Surely not. Tell me there’s not a handset in each one ? And if there is …. what will produce enough current to make them all ring … do you have a PABX switch ?? Ring boosters ??

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

SOTAP suits me, Will not have to change my 52 phone sockets in our property's

What is your understanding of what would change to enforce a massive indoor upheaval if you went to FTTP VoIP via a consumer grade ISP then made the connection from ATA/router socket to your in-house network?

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 05-Apr-26 23:01:56)

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Well been building for 40 years, so It's ongoing, during the winter and bad weather been plastering the 9 rooms upstairs and my wife has been decorating them

Yes I do remember you uploading a picture several years ago showing something or other and just assumed the sorry state of the property was due to it being an old house in major need of renovation.

Not Me ?,

We Purchased the land, Designed it, did the drawings, got PP & Building regs, employed only one person with JCB at the beginning then my wife and I have built it /still finishing off.

Re Zarjaz 52 socket.
Mainly in the main house some living area's could have 4 in each, then there's the Flat, the Garage and even one in my workshop.
The idea years ago was you could not be far from a phone socket, then came along Dect phones.
Only 2 are used, dect base and land line phone in my office.

Re Gone Postal We still want the BT Phone and NOT want VOIP via some other isp.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

We Purchased the land, Designed it, did the drawings, got PP & Building regs, employed only one person with JCB at the beginning then my wife and I have built it /still finishing off.

40 years and still not finished isn't something I would be bragging about personally, the wife designed ours and we got planning and built it 14 years ago to passive house standard (code 5 or 6 if I remember correctly) including me knocking our old house down with a Kubota was fun. Also a big difference between us is when I now hang a picture or fix a fence in the garden I don't claim to be still building the house although there is always things to do. Anyway less about me as I don't want to take your limelight 🤣

Regarding the 52 sockets I would love to see what happens on a copper telephone line when it has a REN of around 40-50 as thats more than 10 times over the limit 😎

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Re Gone Postal We still want the BT Phone and NOT want VOIP via some other isp.

I understand that your have your own views about how you want to go forward and would never seek to deny your personal choice but it never does any harm to take a step back and review assumptions and the motivations behind those assumptions.

The whole of your case so far is built round "we still want BT phone". Stepping back from the current discussion and just in the interest of general nosiness can I ask for the reasoning about why that BT phone consideration is a key requirement and whether making the BT phone an imperative is purely a result of an historic attitude? Your previous comments about your work history would surely support the need for a project manager to constantly review the circumstances around their project. From the whole of this and other threads about your situation it seems to me that the project is going forward locked into a mindset that denies that ongoing review is necessary but has not produced a reasoned assessment of the pros and cons leading to a cogent argument to support your insistence on trying to replicate status quo.

Please accept those comments as an attempt to understand the reasons why the project has ended up where it is rather than any form of criticism and also please do not waste your time in replying if you think I have exceeded the boundaries of good manners or general interest.

Regarding the 52 sockets I would love to see what happens on a copper telephone line when it has a REN of around 40-50 as thats more than 10 times over the limit

I went to a fault some years back … faint transmission, bell not ringing, and cutting off, was the fault report.

A very large house, many kilometres from the exchange (beyond the range of ADSL sync)

They had electricians in doing various jobs, and had asked for additional extensions to be fitted. There was about 25 extensions in total. The line worked fine to the NTE, extensions disconnected. When reconnected, the voice went faint, cut off, and the bell wouldn’t ring …. The extension cabling from the NTE went away on one cable to the ‘original’ 5 extensions. The new extensions went on a separate cable to a 20 pair box conn … then were all hideously teed and daisy chained onwards from there. Disconnect this mess, and voice service was OK.
Further investigation found A/B reversals on several new extensions, causing the faint fault … the bell not ringing and cutting off was due to the teed bell wires creating a huge imbalance on the pair, and at such big line length, wiping out the ring signal as it tried to feed everything at once.

The customer didn’t want cordless phones …. but didn’t believe me when I explained that a PABX switch would fix it.

I corrected the A/B reversals, tried to simplify the bell wiring where possible, involving long uncomfortable discussions as to which extensions were actually required.

The point, if there is one, to this long ramble is ….

I wonder what will happen to a differently generated voice signal when it meets the internal wiring for 52 extensions ?

52 phone sockets in a house and 4 in some rooms must be a troll, congrats you got me. The idea that you're into your telecoms enough to build a house with that many extension sockets but the driving argument for the push for SOTAP is to ensure things are simple are contradictory.

In reply to a post by jpm:

52 phone sockets in a house and 4 in some rooms must be a troll, congrats you got me.

When the OP first said 52 sockets I thought it was a tongue-in-cheek response to mine about over engineering solutions because of their Research Scientist background (thats why I initially ignored it), I never for one second thought they would double down on it. I suspect if true it may be the reason the house build has taken 40 years with all that wiring to do.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I corrected the A/B reversals, tried to simplify the bell wiring where possible, involving long uncomfortable discussions as to which extensions were actually required.

They don't make Openreach engineers like that anymore, first sign of botched customer wiring and their out of the door.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Re Gone Postal We still want the BT Phone and NOT want VOIP via some other isp.

Fun times ahead. A few years the company makes people go to VoIP, renews thousands of leases on exchanges at a prodigious cost or moves frames into cabinets outside exchanges leaving their customers to install powered cabinets.

I can see why they all did this though: they get to charge more. Kicking can down the road somewhat but the maths stops making sense in a big way in a few years.

You should be aware given your apparent vulnerability that the service you are using is expressly listed as being 'best effort'. It is not a replacement for the PSTN and does not promise the same 5-9s reliability. Transitory product only.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

We still want the BT Phone and NOT want VOIP via some other isp.

Above it quiet funny when you think the OP isn't currently with BT as stated below.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Just to make it clear when BT take my phone number back from Eclipse

personally i'd have gone for something like gigaset ip system with a couple of n710ip pros which would act as a mesh of sorts.. which would cover 20 plus phones.. I honestly do see the need for 52 phone sockets.

even 12 phone sockets would be excessive.

the problem with sotap and 52 sockets - is that its unwealedly complex and unneeeded. If theres a fault - how do you diagnose 52 in a timely mannor with aging adults (sorry i had to state that)

even if aptman does stay with sotap, going to dec makes sooooooo much sense,

Ditch the sockets regardless of the route forward

If theres a fault - how do you diagnose 52 in a timely manor ?

Same way you should no matter the age of those diagnosing it. You disconnect the front of the NTE and see if the fault is still present in the test socket. 😉

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I corrected the A/B reversals, tried to simplify the bell wiring where possible, involving long uncomfortable discussions as to which extensions were actually required.

They don't make Openreach engineers like that anymore*, first sign of botched customer wiring and their out of the door.

I suspect they won’t be making exchange voice equipment like that for much longer either … you could get the gain settings remotely adjusted on odd faults … I eat that won’t be an option on SOTAP voice services.

* Oh they got billed for my time.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If theres a fault - how do you diagnose 52 in a timely manor ?

Same way you should no matter the age of those diagnosing it. You disconnect the front of the NTE and see if the fault is still present in the test socket. 😉

i know i know, but its more the case of "what the fuzz!" 😂. I think many of us will over engineer things - but there is a limit.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I know I know, but its more the case of "what the fuzz!" 😂. I think many of us will over engineer things - but there is a limit.

I can see that recent sympathy draining out of you 🤣

I do to some extent have sympathy with your situation.
As I've posted before, at our other property we have a vulnerable adult who was living on his own (things have moved on now) at one stage gf tried ringing him and couldn't get through, when it was investigated the 'phone light' on router was flashing red, the Vodafone helpline said it was the fault of the phone, saying we needed to go out and buy a new phone, after a bit of head scratching the router was turned off then back on, that cured the fault, not sure the occupant could have solved that on his own.
Today I phoned my elderly aunt who has Digital Voice through EE, couldn't get through, as it happens she also has a mobile which she occasionally turns on, got through on that, turns out the 'landline' is very temperamental and according to her "nobody can help".
We have another inlaw with multiple health issues, it took about a month to sort out his 'Digital Voice' delivered through a router.
I feel that for many more vulnerable customers this is not going well, and with more bits of kit between them and the exchange it's not going to get better.

I'm not saying this happens to every one or all isp voice services are bad.

But not everyone is used to having to reboot a router to restore a phone service. and in reality they shouldn't.

I had lost service to one of my voip lines, because the older gigaset voip boxes do not support ipv6 and one of the router's ipv4 dns servers it uses went down and it some how it didn't have a secondary ipv4 dns in the config. Again fine for me to work out one of the dns servers had gone yoyo -which took a while. but its not how "the old analog phones worked"

Counterpoint is I have a Cisco ATA 191 connected to an A&A VoIP service and it is rock solid, so it's possible, just lots of equipment is of a poor quality.

Edited by jpm (Thu 09-Apr-26 21:42:56)

In reply to a post by jpm:

Counterpoint is I have a Cisco ATA 191 connected to an A&A VoIP service and it is rock solid, so it's possible, just lots of equipment is of a poor quality.

Tbf, it was external dns server that went blip ....... i think a router firmware upgrade caused a change in dns server settings (leaving the secondary set of dns servers blank) and i didn't pick it up

In reply to a post by jpm:

Counterpoint is I have a Cisco ATA 191 connected to an A&A VoIP service and it is rock solid, so it's possible, just lots of equipment is of a poor quality.

I use GSWave on my mobile to connect to A&A VoIP, it's much better than my old landline service for several reasons, but that's not the point. Up until now people could buy a phone, plug it in a socket and it would be expected to work. Now there are extra bit's of kit between the phone and line, most of this will be provided by the ISP and people will be expected to use that kit if they want any sort of backup if things go wrong, and things are going wrong and so far from what I've seen ISP's are struggling to solve problems, for some of us this is an inconvenience, for people like my aunt who needed to ring 999 this morning it becomes much more distressing.

Having read the previous conversation, and now skimmed this one...

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

Speaking to the Openreach and BT Executive office's again about my none standard setup they decided to put me on ‘SOTAP for Analogue‘.

Having told me last year that I was going on a new FTTP service ('WBC FTTP Up to 0.5Mbit/s / 0.5Mbit/s') for the DV/VOIP ( That may still happen one day) as well as keeping my other FTTP connection and Copper Pair.
It will save me some rearranging in my equipment cupboard .
No need for a BBU.
No changes to my phone wiring.

Any one else on SOTAP ?

SOTAP is also called PDPL (Pre-Digital Phone Line) and is essentially exactly what is says it is, a phone line which is a pre-digital solution. As far as I can see from the blurb it's for those who would face challenges in being moved to an all IP (VoIP) based solution.
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I have a few questions:
Do you still have a business service from any of your ISP's?
If you already have an FTTP service what is the aversion/issue with using a VoIP service from any provider?
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FWIW - I have an 80+ year old Mother who does not understand anything to do with Broadband and is with Vodafone at present on an FTTC service, who insisted on providing her phone line via their Digital Voice system, the only major downside is... No Voicemail! It baffles me why they could not offer it. I am tempted to move her over to another provider when the time comes, but her area is apparently getting FTTP soon so that may give us the opportunity to leave Vodafone.

Edited by CJT (Fri 10-Apr-26 08:59:02)

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

Edited by APTMAN (Wed 22-Apr-26 21:33:22)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

I'm intrigued how its going to work when BT exchanges start closing en-masse around the UK.

For Clarity: I'm referring to local BT exchanges where the copper cables come from not the hand over exchanges that will be remaining open.

Edited by PCJM40 (Wed 22-Apr-26 22:27:24)

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

I'm intrigued how its going to work when BT exchanges start closing en-masse around the UK.

For Clarity: I'm referring to local BT exchanges where the copper cables come from not the hand over exchanges that will be remaining open.

Can SOTAP be run from cabinets? Google's Artificial Ignorance seems to think so.

I would be astounded if Openreach put any investment into having new line cards made to run analogue voice out of 15 year old Huawei cabinets. I can't see any situation where the economics adds up unless you're charging subscribers stupid money so they can avoid making any changes to their setup. You also lose the power cut resilience as the cabinets have batteries in them that may or may not work, and people keep stealing.

This document https://democracy.guildford.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails... suggests services based on the BT Wholesale PDPL product are being billed at £53/month and that's to public sector clients with decent volumes.

Edited by jpm (Wed 22-Apr-26 23:36:27)

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

No more "Temporary" than the copper it runs over or the exchanges it is connected to I assume?

Note that there is plan to close 80% of the exchanges so many of them have a limited life - whether that means that they are "temporary" I will leave to those with shelves full of dictionaries.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

Going by how much of their time you appear to be using I can't say I wouldn't tell you what you want to hear in their position. You've mentioned a couple of times how, despite the people who own the equipment it is running on and the people whose exchange it lives in saying it's temporary, how you expect it to become permanent and there we are. No notifications to customers of Openreach that copper will remain, no notifications the exchanges the copper routes to will remain so super interesting.

But it would be a very British thing to do still running copper decades into the future so not necessarily inaccurate.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

I Have Been Informed That SOTAP for Analogue Is No Longer A 'Temporary Solution'

so its become SOAP

😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣