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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 24-Apr-11 19:01:31
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Which charset is recommended?


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Looking at the source of various websites, UTF-8 seems to be the favourite?

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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 24-Apr-11 19:32:39
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes. Don't use iso as it causes loads of problems, cross platform and cross border ones.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 24-Apr-11 22:34:53
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Thanks smile.

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Standard User camieabz
(legend) Sun 24-Apr-11 22:57:28
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Always used ANSI encoding when saving HTML / XHTML / CSS in notepad. Never had a problem. Have had problems with others though not sure which.

Equally, not sure if charset and encoding are the same thing, or just related.

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© Camieabz 2002-2011


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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 00:40:37
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Same thing, but different in this case. I think Roberto was refering to the metatags in the html, which determine how the browser on the client displays the content. The other type is just used to determine how the text editor displays the source for editing. In both cases though, I'd go with utf-8. Windows apps tend to default to ansi or iso for files, but linux will use utf-8 as default.

Edited by 12eason (Mon 25-Apr-11 00:41:17)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 25-Apr-11 08:42:14
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 12eason:
I think Roberto was refering to the metatags in the html, which determine how the browser on the client displays the content.
Yes, I was smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User JPL
(member) Mon 25-Apr-11 11:05:54
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
What sort of problems does use of iso cause?

I have used iso for a couple of non-commercial websites because that's what Dreamweaver put in by default, and have neither found nor had reported any problems at all.

JPL
Standard User pmb00cs
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 11:14:01
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: JPL] [link to this post]
 
UTF-8 is the assumed default for most systems if no character encoding is specified, so there can be problems if you use something other than utf-8 without declaring it properly, but as long as you declare the character encoding properly there should be no issues. I use ISO-8859-15 on my personal website, and have no issue with it.

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Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 12:48:35
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Mmm, yes.

Been using ISO forever. No problems.

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© Camieabz 2002-2011


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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 13:53:22
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
There are loads of regional ISO standards that all got replaced by utf-8. It is a dead standard that is no longer updated. Stop using it. You lot are as bad as IE6 users.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 16:37:25
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
So far, you're the only one advocating it. I doubt that's good cause to change.

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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 16:55:27
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
I do appear to be the only one who knows their stuff. Shame really.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 17:03:59
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
To elaborate:

http://www.echodevil.com/blog/1001/ISO-8859-1+vs.+UT...

If your site is in English, ISO is fine. If looking at non-western languages, UTF-8 for sure. I other words UTF-8 can handle characters which ISO can't. Does that make it better? Is a 40-ft lorry better than a car? Only if you want to carry lots of goods. If you have no need for the extra characters, there's no need for UTF-8.

Also:

http://www.phpwact.org/php/i18n/charsets


The bottom line is that UTF is fine for some applications, but not for all, and is overkill for many. It can also be slower depending on the scenario (platform / languages). For English (language) websites for an English audience, ISO is the way to go imo.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011


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Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 17:04:54
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Fraid not. Do some reasearch. Think about the facts of audience, site language. Why incorporate all that versaitlity when it's not needed.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011


My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 17:30:49
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
It's about more than that. Clients often have to guess at the charset because the server removes it from http headers. If everyone uses utf-8, then the work of the browser is made significantly easier. As it is, when it can't find the header info it goes to a default iso setting that is frequently wrong. I'm sure you have come across plenty of these in your time. They are due to incorrect guesses, because of badly configured servers (or bad clients like on mobile phones).

Edited by 12eason (Mon 25-Apr-11 17:32:18)

Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 18:08:15
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Mojibake in English texts generally occurs in punctuation, such as em dashes (), en dashes (), and curly quotes (, ), but rarely in character text, since most encodings agree with ASCII on the encoding of the English alphabet. For example, the pound sign "£" will appear as "£" if it was encoded by the sender as UTF-8 but interpreted by the recipient as CP1252 or ISO 8859-1. If iterated, this can lead to "£", "£", etc.


That seems to be more a problem with some people using one and others using another, rather than all using one. However, it doesn't advocate one over another.

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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 18:18:24
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Resolutions

Applications using UTF-8 as a default encoding may achieve a greater degree of interoperability due to its widespread use and backwards compatibility with US-ASCII.


The point is, so long as different sites use different isos, there will always be a need for the browser to guess at the content every now and again. utf-8 is something every country and every client can use, so if it were to replace iso as the standard we'd have less need for heuristics. The truth is that most countries have already switched, it is just the US and the UK that stick to western ISO, because we're selfish and lazy.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 18:39:08
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
Or perhaps those who use it, use it well and recognise no great value or saving in switching to UTF-8.

I'm not saying UTF is worse. Just that it has little value to many in the West. Your argument of 'everyone else has switched' isn't a fair argument. Why should a company with millions of hits per month change their encoding to suit countries it doesn't deal with?

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© Camieabz 2002-2011

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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 18:57:27
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
I can see we have another 20 year battle to get rid of old standards ahead of us. They say computer standards are generational, ie it takes the previous generation retiring for standards to change properly.
Standard User camieabz
(legend) Mon 25-Apr-11 19:11:59
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: 12eason] [link to this post]
 
That's assuming that change is required. Change for change's sake is pointless. Once change is poven to be cost-effective and of value to commercial enterprise, businesses will adopt it as quickly as their systems and practices allow.

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© Camieabz 2002-2011

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Standard User 12eason
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Apr-11 19:23:27
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Please, cost effective? It's a simple find and replace. It would take minutes even on a commercial site.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Apr-11 02:35:51
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Re: Which charset is recommended?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

is the one i use. not for any particular reason. it has complete english support and works fine.

UTF-8 is fine too.

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Edited by orly (Tue 26-Apr-11 02:37:41)

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