Low usage, want reliability & good tech support

I need to move from Orange Broadband as it's become so unreliable and the service is terrible. Twice in the last four months I've lost my broadband connection for about 3 days apparently due to a line fault which Orange say they passed on to BT to sort out. I am still waiting for it to be sorted out now. The message I see on the lIvebox is: ppp server down.

I want a reliable and low cost ISP with a wireless router provided (at extra one-off cost if necessary), good speeds and good technical support but I don't mind a download/usage limit of 3-5Gb.

The ISPs I'm considering are:
- Waitrose,

Check out NewNet.

http://www.newnet.co.uk/broadband/home.php

I'm on the

Another good option to consider is Newnet.

LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) has just been explained by others.

Going to BT would not help, as it does not cut out the middleman any more.

The LLU suppliers have their own equipment on the exchange end of your line. All other ISPs - Newnet, Enta re-sellers, IDNet, Orange (in your case) etc come through the BT DSLAM/MSAN. This is owned and maintained/managed by BT Openreach.

BT Wholesale sell the access/use of this equipment to the ISPs, and provide the actual connection to the "BT backbone" - the main link to the rest of the net. The product BT Wholesale sells is IPStream (and Datastream which some ISPs use).

The ISPs above buy IPStream from BT Wholesale - and BT Retail that you would buy from are just another ISP for that purpose. It could even be worse for you, as this structure is set up to comply with OfClot's requirement that all ISPs must have equal access to IPStream to sell to you. As a result, Wholesale and Openreach have to bend over backwards to show they are not favouring Retail, so Retail may find it harder to get results than external ISPs. Your line fault is Openreach's responsibility to fix.

Even with LLU the line from the exchange to you is Openreach - even if you pay the ISP for it not BT Retail.

Fun isn't it?

PS - Newnet tech support is excellent.
Waitrose Broadband is supplied by Brightview - whose main ISP is Madasafish. Brightview has just been bought by BT.

Check out IDNET. Excellent and helpful ISP. Look at their forum on this BB and at www.idnetters.idnet.co.uk

IDNet Studio, The Spirella Building, Letchworth, Herts SG6 4ET. UK
T: 08000 267 237 | E: [email protected]

To check out the ISP I use, click on link below,

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- Be* broadband,

In reply to:

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What are the advs & disadvs of having an LLU provider?

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Disadavantages are usually a contract anywhere from 3 months to 12 months.

Advantages are speeds are faster - greater download allowances or no restrictions whatever - better value for money.

Some LLU providers also give free routers (OK so do some non LLU providers if you sign up for 12 months) - and also Sky on LLU do deals where you can have their TV channels - free phone calls - plus your broadband connection for

Thanks for all your comments, very useful.

I think a big priority for me is the quality and availability of the technical support.
Some providers, like Newnet & IDnet don't have 24 hr support so I'll rule them out.
I phoned Waitrose support and they seemed pretty together and helpful, phoned Be broadband's support and I had to wait ages to get through and then found it hard to understand what the guy was saying. Not encouraging.

Signing up for a year's contract doesn't bother me as I'm sure I won't change again for at least a year.

One last question about speed though:
What is the point of going with an LLU provider promising speed of up to 24Mb if one can only get a max speed of 5.5Mb? I am apparently about 2km from the local exchange, which is Fulham, and am told by Waitrose that I can get up to 5.5Mb speed.

So - would I get the same speed from these two alternatives:
Waitrose (MadasaFish), up to 8Mb
Be broadband, up to 24Mb

Thanks

Madafish (Waitrose) use BT's kit which is plain ADSL (up to 8Mbps).

Be use their own exchange kit which is ADSL2+ (up to 24Mbps).

Put your stats in here to get an estimate.

http://www2.farina1.com/ADSL/default.aspx

or

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/maxspeed2.php

Strange that 2 of the best ISPs don't have 24-hour support. . It could be that it isn't needed by their customers. Are you sure you are right to rule them out? I can't see it would have much effect on your current line problem. And once that is solved?

If you re-read the posts about LLU you will see most have their own equipment at the exchange. BT equipment is limited to 8Mb (ADSL1), LLU equipment is limited to 24Mb (ADSL2+) - or at least in Be's case it is. Some ISPs say 16Mb, but that is a different question.

So presumably Waitrose (aka Madasafish aka Brightview aka recently > BT) are using the BT equipment. Ask Be what speed they would expect you to get. ADSL2+ degrades with distance faster than ADSL1, but I would expect more than 5.5Mb.

PS - Quality of support is more important than availability - so you should be ruling out Be from your own experience.

That leaves Madasafish, who so far have a very good reputation.

In reply to:

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- Be* broadband,

John2007 Thanks for that.
This site: http://www.dslzoneuk.net/maxspeed2.php,
my "Attenuation" is 32Db, site says I can get between 10-14Mbps.

This site http://www2.farina1.com/adsl/default.aspx
Current line sync: 7168 I think
(my livebox says this is downstream rate, don't know if this is the right number)
Attenuation: 32db
Noise 6.6
Results are:-
We estimate that if using a rate adaptive up to 8Mbps service your maximum line speed will be: 7168kbps.
If you are on a Max product, that uses the IP Profile system (sometimes called BRAS Data Rate) if you maintain the above line speed for 3 days or more your IP Profile would be set to: 6mbps.
If your service provider uses ADSL2+ we estimate you may manage line speeds of: 15,650.
With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around: 13,850kbps.

So I think the answer is that I'd get up to 6Mbps with a non LLU provider like Waitrose/Madasafish, but could get 10-14Mbps with an LLU provider like "Be".

Hmm, interesting, but I still think I may go with Waitrose as they've got such good reviews and support should be good. Also "Be" do seem to be having problems at the moment. Worrying though that BT have bought the company that supplies Waintrose & Madasafish (Brightview).

I still have a bit of time to decide anyway, as have to wait for MAC code from Orange.

Have you sorted out your line problems now? If you haven't they will move with you to your new ISP.

Madasafish have a good reputation, although there have been grumblings on this site since their takeover by BT.

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Worrying though that BT have bought the company that supplies Waintrose & Madasafish (Brightview).

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If there comes a time to leave MAAF, then the two ISPs I would choose between are Newnet and IDNet (at this moment in time)

Line problems sorted out ok.
I now have Mac code, will prob risk Waitrose/Madasafish.
Thanks to all.

I suggest you register a domain at Purple Cloud for