Poss switch to O2 - re: speed problems?

Hi,

I'm thinking about switching from BT (Option 1) to O2's Standard 8Mb package, but I've been reading on other messageboards about recent speed issues on O2.

Does anyone know if that's only affecting the users of the O2 Access packages, or the LLU ones aswell. My exchange (Ilford North) is LLU enabled, so I'm hoping it's just the access ones.

Also - any ideas if it's worth my bothering to swap? I'm currently getting about 5Mbps daytime, drops to around 3.5 - 4 in the evenings, and BT have offered me that for £7.33p/m plus free wireless modem (currently got an old wired one) if I stay.

Cheers

I think Be/O2 LLU are pretty much problem free (certainly compared to non-LLU).

Search for user MKD and check his signature. It gives a link to a document comparing the O2 and Be packages.

I take it you don't download a great deal (Be/O2 have generous allowances before the FUP hits).

O2 Access has capacity problems, waiting for upgrades to resolve those. There are many customers suffering.

O2 LLU is basically fine though like any ISP there will be a few customers with problems. You may have seem poster 5km for instance. Looks like a general problem to do with Canterbury exchange.

Your full stats (sync speed, attenuation and noise margin/SNRM) from your router would be useful as we could then give you an indication of what speed you should get.

What you can be sure of is that in general O2 speeds hardly change in the evenings as long as you are not one of the few.

I suggest you try your phone number on the O2 web site and see what estimated speed, packages and prices you get offered. Then assuming they offer Standard, Premier and Pro, ask about Ilford North in the O2 forum.

In reply to a post by john2007:

I take it you don't download a great deal (Be/O2 have generous allowances before the FUP hits).

Has it ever hit?

Not that I know of, but as with the financial markets past performance does not guarantee future results.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was hoping to hear.

O2 can offer up to 17Mb to my phone number, so no problems there. I'll check out their forums re:Ilford North in general though - thanks for the suggestion.

Line stats:

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 7616 Kbps 448 Kbps
Noise Margin 6.2 dB 20.0 dB
Line Attenuation 25.0 dB 13.0 dB
Output Power 19.8 dBm 11.8 dBm

Thanks again.

Thanks,

I was going for O2 as my mobile phone is with them - plus the quidco discount if I act quickly makes that the best deal.

No, i don't download much - just regular podcasts, occasionally music plus I sometimes use iplayer or watch streamed football matches, but not a heavy downloader. Not whole films etc.

O2 can offer up to 17Mb to my phone number

Possibly 18Mbps sync. Instead of the IP Profile system you have now, which swallows the TCP/IP overheads of 10-12% but not the ATM overheads between you and the exchange of about 5%, you have a best possible download speed of around 85% of sync on O2.

I found the O2 Box gave 83.5% consistently, which basically means O2 was giving me full speed.

Thanks. Sounds likely that I should be able to get pretty good speeds then.

I took a look at the O2 forums - there are some reports of slow speeds from exchanges with LLU, but majority are on the Access package.

there are some reports of slow speeds from exchanges with LLU, but majority are on the Access package.

That's correct.

Slow speeds on LLU exchanges are corrected by O2 installing more kit, which is relatively quick and easy if there is room. Slow speeds on Access can be BT needing to upgrade an exchange, or supply more kit back at the ISP. The first is totally out of O2's control, the second is once they have ordered it.

As you are going LLU and there is the 30-day getout you have little to lose. The worst would be finding the cheapest route back to ADSL Max, which used to be Freeola, then migrate again from there.

It's not like Tiscali or TalkTalk where your phone line goes across as well. That's painful to get back from.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 21-Feb-09 21:19:07)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It's not like Tiscali or TalkTalk where your phone line goes across as well. That's painful to get back from.

Which LLU providers do not take over your phone line?

Be & O2 don't amongst others.

Got my MAC code from BT today and ordered the O2 Standard Package via Quidco. Here's hoping it works out.

Thanks for the advice all, whilst the decision was ultimately mine, the input was helpful.

In reply to a post by cblymie:

Got my MAC code from BT today and ordered the O2 Standard Package via Quidco. Here's hoping it works out.

Thanks for the advice all, whilst the decision was ultimately mine, the input was helpful.

It's 99.9% certain it will be great. Let us know how it goes .

I would have recommended O2 six months ago, as they seemed to have made an effort on customer service, and were fine initially. Despite being on an LLU package, their throughput problems are causing my speed to drop off a cliff at peak times, and I'm one of many LLU package users in this situation. That's 6-8hrs a day with download speeds as low as 0.5Mb/s, which is NOT broadband. Their support staff have been very inconsistent about this, and so are either ill informed, or are deliberately giving out misinformation on the problem. They've signed up too many users for their system to handle, yet one of their 2nd line team even tried to persuade me to run TCP Optimizer! This would have been worse than useless, as it would have screwed up perfectly good stack settings if reset when the network was congested and causing dismal bandwith with massive data loss. Running trace route commands shows exactly where the problem is. with time outs, (or up to 3000ms latency), on the shared 'bethere' and 10.1.X.X servers. I'm very disappointed now with what was once a good package, so will be terminating my contract, seeing as they are in breach themselves, and trying cable instead,

BeWare.

I would have recommended O2 six months ago, as they seemed to have made an effort on customer service, and were fine initially. Despite being on an LLU package, their throughput problems are causing my speed to drop off a cliff at peak times

What exchange are you on please?

In reply to a post by cblymie:

Got my MAC code from BT today and ordered the O2 Standard Package via Quidco. Here's hoping it works out.

Good luck cblymie, although I doubt you will need luck as my O2 LLU package has been virtually faultless in the last 9 months.

Please come back here and let us know how it all pans out for you.

john

SSHEN, Bristol.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

SSHEN, Bristol.

Thanks. But .

First I've heard of trouble in that area so that's why the frown. That's why I asked, to see what areas are affected. The more there are the more worrying it is.

Good luck with getting out, and with your next ISP. It's a real shame, because when O2 is good it is very good.

Unfortunately most of O2 tech support, (ncluding second line), either don't know what's going on, or else are deliberately misinforming customers to play down the extent of the problem. Try ringing the sales people and say you're thinking of migrating to O2 but have read reports of bad throughput in your area due to contention even on LLU exchanges, and see what THEY say! A responsible company would tell you they couldn't take on any more subscribers until their network is upgraded. The congestion isn't at the DSLAM exchange level, it's further up. Having got no sense from repeated calls, I'd asked to speak to a manager, both about the problem itself, and the response from tech support. They said a manager would phone me wthin 24hrs. One week, and many more phone calls, later, I finally got a call back tonight, (but only because I spoke to a manager in the billing department this morning and told her why I was cancelling the direct debit). I'd expect that from BT, but O2? He was only a second line manager, and even he seemed to be in the dark. If he'd been able to tell me that it would be resolved within the 6-8 weeks they're claiming for other parts of the network, (they've been claiming that for 6-8 weeks already), and offered to waive all charges until then, I MIGHT think it worth staying with them, but there's not even an estimate for when the Bristol area will be upgraded. The problem is getting rapidly worse too, so even then, I'd be reluctant to remain. I told him to pass on my comments to his line manager. I'd advise anyone experiencing these issues to keep a log of speeds and times, (with screenshots as proof), and simply withhold payment. If O2 stands to lose a lot of money it will suddenly focus its attention on tackling this properly. A good reputation takes a long time to build up, but it can be destroyed very quickly, as they are now finding out.

O2 have been horrendous for nearly a month in my area. They keep sugar coating their replies with [censored] about BT having issues at the exchange, then they go back on that, and say that the issue is with congestion (OVER SUBSCRIPTION). Also word from a friend who works in the call center in Glasgow is that they are just [censored] customers along until they upgrade their exchange hardware or pay BT for the upgrade, whatever they have to do.

BT also tell me that there's clearly no issues with the Exchange (LVNOR) in my area and that the problem is with my ISP.

I've tried to cancel but keep getting told I have to pay 50 quid and I am liable to pay more if i post my hardware back and it gets lost. Which is threatened as likely.

They are thieves and I will never deal with O2 again in my life.

Hi,

I was just trying to post a response to a reply on my thread, but the link is gone - does that mean it's been deleted?

Either way, I'd just like to point out that posting negative info about O2 AFTER I've made the decision to sign up with them isn't entirely helpful

For anyone who's interested's information - I signed up Monday afternoon, got texts/emails from O2 to tell me when my router would arrive (yesterday - could barely believe it arrived so fast) and when the line switch will take place - Tues 3rd March.

It's all been very professional and helpful so far, the big test will be when it actually switches next week and the subsequent speed/reliability.

I should also add that so far BT have been fine on the other side - politely giving me my MAC code immediately when requested, not like a prolonged nightmare I had with Tiscali about 2.5yrs ago.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

the issue is with congestion (OVER SUBSCRIPTION)

Is that a question? If not, you don't know what you're talking about.

Well you gave no deadline and didn't wait to see what feedback you'd receive, so don't blame others for your poor decision. O2 have made an effort on customer service, as I've already pointed out, but that doesn't prevent them signing up more subscribers than their system can handle. I phoned one of their sales team and said I was thinking of migrating to O2, but had seen a lot of reports on forums about throughput issues due to congestion. The guy claimed to be unaware of any problems at all! LOL! I advise anyone experiencing dismal throughput to cancel payments immediately and take a close look at the terms of the Goods and Services Act 1982. When O2 starts haemorrhaging cash, they'll learn their lesson and really do something about it. So long as people ignore advice and keep signing up, they've no pressing incentive to worry about fulfilling the terms of their contract.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Well you gave no deadline and didn't wait to see what feedback you'd receive, so don't blame others for your poor decision. O2 have made an effort on customer service, as I've already pointed out, but that doesn't prevent them signing up more subscribers than their system can handle.

You're still wrong. Their system can handle any number of subscribers but some exchanges are starved of capacity by BT who are dragging their feet. O2 are powerless to do anything other than wait for BT to get their finger out and provide the capacity ordered. All these problems mainly affect Access, not LLU.

Hi,

I apologise for not stating a deadline, however, on Monday I had already posted further down this thread that I have signed up with O2: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthr...

I had hoped that would save people from replying to this thread in the mistaken belief that I was still waiting for more input before I decide.

I won't be blaming anyone for my decision - I know that's mine only.

Ta.

Hi,

I apologise for not stating a deadline, however, on Monday I had already posted further down this thread that I have signed up with O2: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthr...

I had hoped that would save people from replying to this thread in the mistaken belief that I was still waiting for more input before I decide.

I won't be blaming anyone for my decision - I know that's mine only.

Ta.

Hi Cblymie,

I've jumped in too. I signed up last night after a couple of drinks, and am now getting nervous. No MAC code yet - but O2 have been very quick to ask me for it - a matter of minutes.

Mine will be LLU, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. Currently with an Enta reseller, and the speeds have been all over the place - down to 600kb/s last evening (line capable of 5700).

Good luck to us both!

Well, the switchover from BT to O2 happened today, and I'm pleased to report, it all went smoothly and is working very well so far.

I've been impressed with how O2 kept me updated about router delivery, swiotchover etc, texted me at each stage, including the exact time it went live.

Bit less impressed with some of the O2 website's help pages, not the easiest to search on and info arranged in a rather haphazard way, to my eyes, but that's trivial in the long run.

Speed so far VERY impressive - speedtest conducted just now gave me a result of 12.1Mbps downstream, 1.1Mbps upstream, and I only signed up for 8! I don't know if that will sync downwards in the next few days - is that likely?

Anyway, I'm impressed so far - can't comment on stability yet, obviously.

Hi cblymie,
I used to be with o2 at my old address on an LLU enabled 8 meg line and regularly got 5 meg, sometimes getting 6.5 meg. I have since moved to a house where o2 is not available, at least not on an LLU enabled line and ended up going to BT Total Broadband Option 2 and boy do I wish I could go back to o2.
My speed has decreased from an initial 5.5meg down to 1 meg and less despite being 500 yards from my nearest exchange and I am always getting warnings about overuse even though I do not download movies/music etc. I am locked into an 18 month contract with about 5 months to go and I will be leaving BT as soon as I can. I was paying £7.50 per month with o2 as a PAYG customer, I am currently paying £21 per month for BT. Be careful about re negotiating with BT as any changes would mean getting locked into another contract, having said that your speed does seem to already be reasonable. I cannot comment on o2 unbundled lines as I wasn't on one. All I can say is that my old house was 3.1 km away from my exchange and speed was excellent with o2, I am now 500 yards from my exchange and my speed is awful. Regards dilus

You are the one who doesn't understand networking issues obviously! The problem, (at Bristol anyway), is above the exchange level, which is why LLU subscribers are also suffering. It's caused by an aggregation point overload at peak times. Get some knowledge before you make such accusations.

It may sync slightly lower, mine fell by a few hundred. But assumimg it stays close to 12Mbps they used to offer you the chance to upgrade if you want, before they throttle it to 8Mbps. I expect they still do.

Then it's up to you if you want to pay the extra.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

You are the one who doesn't understand networking issues obviously! The problem, (at Bristol anyway), is above the exchange level, which is why LLU subscribers are also suffering. It's caused by an aggregation point overload at peak times. Get some knowledge before you make such accusations.

Oh I'm sorry, are you a touchy Anonymous telecom employee, who doesn't have the er... time... to register? I tend to ignore Anonymous comments per se.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It may sync slightly lower, mine fell by a few hundred. But assumimg it stays close to 12Mbps they used to offer you the chance to upgrade if you want, before they throttle it to 8Mbps. I expect they still do.

Then it's up to you if you want to pay the extra.

Thanks for the reply - can you remember how long they gave you to decide whether to upgrade?

In reply to a post by cblymie:

Thanks for the reply - can you remember how long they gave you to decide whether to upgrade?

It didn't apply to me as I sync below 8Mbps. All I got was an email saying everything was fine as it was.
I joined on 18 Sept and that email came on 20 Sept.

We've tested your connection, and it's good news.

Just a note to say that testing is now complete on your O2 Broadband connection, and great news it has confirmed your package suits your line.

With everything now in place, we hope that you enjoy your O2 Broadband experience.

If you have any questions please visit www.o2.co.uk. Or you can give us a call on 0800 230 0202 free from a landline, or drop the first zero to call free from an O2 mobile.

Best regards

The O2 Broadband Team.

Ah, sorry, I remember you saying you synced just below 8Mbps before. Thanks for the reply. Not sure if i can get sufficient use out of networking another computer in this house to know if it's worth upgrading yet, so will prob assess over the next few days and wait and see.