Be or O2?

I'm currently with NewNet but I'm looking at switching to an unlimited connection purely because my kids have regularly started caning my bandwidth. I'm considering going with either O2 or Be, but can't decide which one to choose. I'd appreciate some advice.
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I know that O2 own Be and undercut them on price, but does that mean they sacrifice quality of connection and service as a result? O2 seem quite well liked on these forums, but Be score consistently higher in the thinkbroadband comparison charts.
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I've read some horror stories on certain broadband review sites where some O2 users are getting dropped connections and severe speed drops between 5pm and midnight, whereas a lot of the complaints about Be are about the "technical" nature of their set-up and the difficulties communicating with a support team based in Eastern Europe.
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I'm based in Stamford, Lincs which - as the Samknows website suggests - has LLU for Be/O2 on the exchange. I want to use my connection for online games, iPlayer/YouTube and a bit of occasional light downloading - so speed and connection consistency is quite important. I understand speed is dependent on distance from the exchange and the amount of traffic on the line and I'm not really expecting the 16mb speed their line checker is suggesting, but what concerns me most is dropped connections and slow evening speeds. (That's something that made me jump ship from Tiscai to NewNet 2 years ago and tying myself into 12 months of all that malarkey is not an ideal scenario).
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So it comes down to this; O2 or Be - which one do you think is best in terms of speed, reliability and quality of service?
I'd really appreciate your comments.

In reply to a post by Ade_R:

I'm currently with NewNet but I'm looking at switching to an unlimited connection purely because my kids have regularly started caning my bandwidth. I'm considering going with either O2 or Be, but can't decide which one to choose. I'd appreciate some advice.
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I know that O2 own Be

Not quite true. O2 and Be have the same parent company and use the same network (Be created it initially and O2 was launched on the back of it).

and undercut them on price, but does that mean they sacrifice quality of connection and service as a result?

Apparently not. Their Access product (based on IPStream) is apparently quite dire but their LLU service from what I hear is just as good. It's the same network.

O2 seem quite well liked on these forums, but Be score consistently higher in the thinkbroadband comparison charts.

That's probably their Access customers dragging the average down.

complaints about Be are about the "technical" nature of their set-up and the difficulties communicating with a support team based in Eastern Europe.

I wouldn't expect you to find many of them. Be's technical support in my limited experience is the best I've ever known.

So it comes down to this; O2 or Be - which one do you think is best in terms of speed, reliability and quality of service?

There's very little that Be offer that O2 don't. Tbh it remains a mystery why Be still exists. The two ISPs do compete and Be will offer incentives to members not to move to O2. Migrating from Be to O2 is easy whereas the other direction I think requires a MAC. It really seems like Telefonica would rather not retain Be. Except that Be are currently trialling SRA, have implemented line bonding, offer wholesale services and are about to launch a voice product. All in all hardly the signs of an old ISP whose parent company wants to wind them down.

But as residential consumers it's simple. Go for the cheaper (which will be O2). I stay with Be because they are a fun ISP to be with. You can tell that from this page:

https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/beteam

Edited by Andrue (Fri 21-May-10 12:57:42)

Your fears about O2 are understandable, but fortunately unfounded.

As you know, O2/Be LLU is only available at certain exchanges, such as yours.

Be only offer connection at those exchanges, but O2 also offer an ADSL Max connection like you have now at Newnet, which is a BT Wholesale product.

Because the ADSL Max service, called O2 Access, is still sold with unlimited downloads, and is the only ISP still selling unlimited at a lowish price, is has become heavily over-subscribed and congested. They seem to have introduced traffic management on it, and have certainly got fierce about regular heavy usage, figures of 10GB and 40GB have recently been quoted.

So 99% of the complaints you have seen are about O2 Access, and are the reason for the lower rating.

The O2 LLU service is virtually identical to the Be one - no traffic shaping, no congestion, no slowdowns and effectively no FUP. The normal problems that can arise with any internet conenction will account for the other 1% of complaints.

I came from Newnet 18 months ago when I started exceeding my 3GB regularly. I thought Newnet was very good, especially after Prodigynet, but O2 is just excellent! To be fair, so is Be. Just that as you say, the pricing is more consumer than geek oriented.

MKD produces up-to-date O2/be comparison documents. Take heed of the information about cashbacks on both ISPs.

So the short answer to your final question is they are both as good as each other.

If you can find and post your router stats, see here for help if you need it, then I can give you a good estimate of your expected speed.

What do you do about email and webspace for your brood? ISP-based, googlmail/hotmail etc., or independent hosting?

I agree with everything you say except the ownership question.

This post seems definitive, although I haven't followed the links to see for myself.

Thanks for your reply RobertoS, it was really helpful.
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I'll post my router stats here later when I get home from work.
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As for email - when I left Tiscali I took to using Gmail/Hotmail/Ymail, as have the rest of the family. I don't really need webspace, but if O2 supply some for nowt then I won't turn them down.

Many thanks Andrue, you've been really helpful.

Some suggest not to use an ISPs e-mail address/web-space as it acts as an inertia hold to the ISP.

If, God forbid, O2 LLU becomes bad then it's much easier to migrate if you are not dependent on its e-mail address/web-space.

I did get my own domain which was £9.99 from 1&1 internet for two years. Now i can get my emails sent to my domain name ie @benbird.co.uk but tbh I am thinking of just using my gmail account, the advantages for me are I can access and sort these emails wherever I have an internet connection, it doesn't cost me anything and these can be sorted out into their own folders without the risk of losing the emails if my PC hard drive died.

I'd probably suggest getting a googlemail email address and using that.

I do have a gmail account but it is only a transit stop as I empty the in/span/bin boxes every day. I don't want my e-mails readable/searchable by a third party (and all the various Governments/agencies throughout the world which Google is obliged to obey).

I use normal POP3/SMTP but tell my email client to leave on the server for 30 days as well. Used to be Purple Cloud, now moved to Tsohost.

I now have a daily whole disc incremental backup anyway using Acronis to a network disc.

Both Purple Cloud and Tsohost also allow IMAP and webmail, which I use from my phone when necessary.

I agree with the poster who said he doesn't reckon on all his email living on or even going through google.