Market 1 resident - best just go with BT?

HI,

Ive been researching which is the best BB for us and just read that our exchange is in a Market 1 area.

Given that, isnt it likely that BT will offer the best deal seeing as anyone else who can offer me internet access will essentially just be providing a BT line albeit dressed in their clothes (which i assume will cost more)?

Thanks

Marcus

Depends on what you want from the connection

BT Total use traffic management to control traffic at peak times.
Other providers who have clearly defined usage limits don't have the management systems, i.e. traffic agnostic
BT Total millions of customers and thousand's of not very knowledgeable support staff
Smaller providers often with better support staff.

So while it may be a BT Wholesale service on Market 1 the difference in QoS, based on how much money the ISP spends on the service can make a massive difference to your experience.

Or put it another way, if all providers were equal on a Market 1 exchange, why do people not buy just the cheapest product all the time?

isnt it likely that BT will offer the best deal

not necessarily, they have a lot of loyal customers who won't switch away so the need to be ultra competitive may be less than others.

If you're just buying broadband then BT Total Broadband effectively rents access to the line from Openreach in the same way as anyone else.

If you're buying line rental and calls too then it pays to shop around - I don't pay call setup charges with IDnet but I would with BT, and as we make lots of short calls that makes a difference (as an example).

In reply to a post by yarwell:

BT Total Broadband effectively rents access to the line from Openreach in the same way as anyone else.

good point, i had forgotton that. I am just looking for broadband access, no need for a call package.

Our exchange is also 8mb max only, which limits the packages available as the most competitive ones seem aimed at the up-to-20mb crowd.

Thanks for the replies though

Marcus

As MrSaffron said, it depends what you want to use the internet for.

Some ISPs are good for one thing and bad for another, or perhaps they offer different packages which vary in the same way.

If you just intend to browse, do email, banking and online shopping for instance, the best ISP/package is a different one from if you intend to be streaming catchup or live TV a lot, downloading films, constant YouTube, etc. What about gaming?

Descibe a bit of what you will be doing please.

What's the most you want to pay for the broadband, with the phone as a separate issue/cost? Don't worry about the "up to 20Mbps" packages as very few ISPs now distinguish between those and "up to 8Mbps" in their pricing. You just find a bit in the small print saying it depends on your exchange whether you get over 8Mbps on them. You can still have the package.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 21-Jan-11 13:35:29)

Hi Roberto,

Thanks for your reply, we'll being using it for a mixture of home/business functions.

Im guessing the sub-text of your question was how heavy a user will i be - yes, we do watch films, download large files etc so i reckon approx40gb monthly usage.

Also, need to ensure VPN works ok as know a number of people who cant have a Virgin system as it doesnt support their vpn access to work.

Cost isnt too much of an issue, but dont really want to go over £20/month.

Given the above, im leaning towards o2 at the moment (though may have to be their access-only service) given the ability to have 30day contracts, seemingly high customer satisfaction ratings and im an o2 mobile user so get a discount.

As someone who moved house from a Market 3 exchange to a Market 1 exchange, I'll give you my experience.

I was with PlusNet, I changed to O2 LLU and it was fantastic. When I moved house, I ended up on O2 Access and then they imposed all their limits on usage down to unacceptable (for me).

I'm now with PlusNet again on their Extra package so I have 60Gb a month usage 8am-midnight, unlimited after that. I pay £17.99 a month with no contract (i.e. I can leave anytime with minimal notice period and no charges).

I work at home, so I'm on VPN 24x5 (laptop left on all week as it backs up overnight over VPN) and that added to normal usage, streaming, downloads, etc I use 150Gb a month roughly (always <60Gb peak though).

Unless you plan to p2p 24x7, PN are hard to beat.

Do not buy the o2 access product with your usage levels - it is a slow and congested product.

40GB under £20 and quality will be difficult on Market 1

hi there i think you shud look at post office broadband the service is very good no slow downs in the evening and its unlimted i download way over 60gig per month

Thanks for that fig, i have been going back and forth between plusnet and o2 and was all ready to plump for plusnet until i read some reviews on the internet which put me off. I do have my own router, so could also get their no-contract option.

(I really should know by now though that people mostly post online reviews when theyve want to moan)

The £20 max was an ideal, i am prepared to pay more for a reliable service.

MrSaffron, thanks for the warning, much appreciated

Anon- will look at post office, thanks.

Marcus

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Hi Roberto,

Thanks for your reply, we'll being using it for a mixture of home/business functions.

Im guessing the sub-text of your question was how heavy a user will i be - yes, we do watch films, download large files etc so i reckon approx40gb monthly usage.

Also, need to ensure VPN works ok as know a number of people who cant have a Virgin system as it doesnt support their vpn access to work.

Cost isnt too much of an issue, but dont really want to go over £20/month.

Given the above, im leaning towards o2 at the moment (though may have to be their access-only service) given the ability to have 30day contracts, seemingly high customer satisfaction ratings and im an o2 mobile user so get a discount.

No chance on O2 Access. The most obvious thing is the 20GB allowance.

As MrSaffron says, it is very congested and is possibly top of my "Not recommended" list. The high satisfaction ratings are down to the once excellent LLU service, but even that doesn't really feature on the "Recommended" list as the packages announced towards the end of last year are very poor in comparison to the old ones that are still possibly the overall best.

On a Market 1 exchange I don't think you can get the LLU anyway, by definition. Which exchange is it?

I would say you are looking at Plusnet Extra for cheap and maybe OK, and IDNet Home Lite or Home Max for quality and more consistent speed. The choice between the two IDNet packages depends on whether you can fit your downloads into the Lite off-peak.

Plusnet Extra has this traffic management.

idnet and zen are bit more price but support are 2nd to none

for value plusnet and hard to beat but look carefull at their traffic managment to make sure you have the right pacage

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Thanks for that fig, i have been going back and forth between plusnet and o2 and was all ready to plump for plusnet until i read some reviews on the internet which put me off. I do have my own router, so could also get their no-contract option.

O2 Access WAS good until their Unlimited became 20Gb in no time, however I can't fault PN since moving back to them.

I have my own router, wanted the option of moving away at a moments notice if there was an LLU option on my exchange one day (so far, nope). To be honest, I couldnt find a comparable ISP out there for what you get price wise with PN.

Look in the forums for the ISP's here. PN has certainly had a lot of very harsh critics, but as you pointed out, the people who voice an opinion are generally the ones who do want to moan.

Thanks Roberto,

This is my exchange:

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/EMOUNDL

Ive never heard of Idne but it they are that much more reliable, their home max package looks worth the extra. As im splitting the cost with a housemate, the higher cost is rather negligible.

Appreciate all the replies,

I think I cover all suggestions plus BT, including the O2 you thought looked good but can't get, in this comparison.

That's great, thank you. Will let you know how i get on.

What P2P throttling do Plusnet do on your package?

I am paying £28 a month on Xilo for 45gb peak (up until 8pm) and unlimited off peak but no throttling or FUP.

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

What P2P throttling do Plusnet do on your package?

I am paying £28 a month on Xilo for 45gb peak (up until 8pm) and unlimited off peak but no throttling or FUP.

Take a look here:
PN Speeds

The least I've used over the past few months is about 140Gb over the month with about 50Gb of that being in peak time. I generally manage to keep peak usage below 40Gb a month even with working at home on VPN all the time. I've yet to have any hassle about usage as I always keep below my 60Gb allowance in peak time.

I'm rarely impatient enough to be worried when traffic shaping affects anything I'm doing in the day.

There are hopefully good news on the horizon :
Ofcom proposes to reduce the BT wholesale price on Market 1 exchages.

Good god ! They finally realized that their rules PENALIZE people on Market 1 and 2 exchanges for NO GOOD reason, i.e. it did not improve competition.
Apology and refunds to follow....?

Martin

Is it good to force BT to reduce pricing on exchanges where the ROI has possibly not being met in the years since ADSL was enabled?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Is it good to force BT to reduce pricing on exchanges where the ROI has possibly not being met in the years since ADSL was enabled?

Just because the exchange is small, it does NOT mean that it's more expensive to run !
If if was just 3 miles closer to county town I would be paying HALF the price and getting FIVE times the usage allowance from the SAME ISP - PlusNet (they don't do LLU anyway).

The price IS HELD ARTIFICIALLY HIGH by OFCOM in a VAIN HOPE that it will bring competition, it has not, no sign that it will in near future.

IT's TIME TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD, seems that OFCOM has finally seen the light,
but will they DO IT ?
Regards,
Martin

One thing I've often wondered about market 1 exchanges is that often the problem is congestion at an exchange level. ADSL Max Premium products claim to give traffic priority over non premium products. How much of a difference is this likely to make?

Cheers

Huw

How much of a difference is this likely to make?

the speedtester says the minimum acceptable speed is double for Max Premium, if that helps.

Previously I have done test work with several lines on an exchange and demonstrated the priority system in action.

In reply to a post by fig:

In reply to a post by wolvesmad:

What P2P throttling do Plusnet do on your package?

I am paying £28 a month on Xilo for 45gb peak (up until 8pm) and unlimited off peak but no throttling or FUP.

Take a look here:
PN Speeds

The least I've used over the past few months is about 140Gb over the month with about 50Gb of that being in peak time. I generally manage to keep peak usage below 40Gb a month even with working at home on VPN all the time. I've yet to have any hassle about usage as I always keep below my 60Gb allowance in peak time.

I'm rarely impatient enough to be worried when traffic shaping affects anything I'm doing in the day.

Hi, i am on the Westwood exchange and currently my BB is provided by Sky. I am getting increasingly annoyed with the slow (less than 0.5mb) speeds on an evening but in the daytime its regularly over 4mb. The thing is, I dont actually pay for my BB as I work for sky so am reluctant to sign up with BT as I dont know if the service will be ant better than im already getting and am then in a 12 month contract!!

I have noticed that Plus Net drastically cut the DL speeds in the evenings, do ou notice his as havin an effect??

I DL quite a bit from itunes and watch tv shows on my apple tv so are these likely to be classed as downloads and slowed to less than 1mb

Thanks, nick

i am on the Westwood exchange

There are two so is it Peterborough or Warrington?

Hi All,

This is the OP, though i have no way of proving it!

Just thought I'd finish off the thread i started and say I went with IDNET home max in the end,

Have to say, the whole process with them has been excellent - particularly the phone number where someone (who knows what they're talking about) answers after two rings.

Best of all, i placed the order last Friday. It's now wednesday, essentially three days later, and Im now online at my max possible 8128kbps - a day earlier than they said I would be (i appreciate this will prob come down a bit).

Anyway, so far, a faultless service.

Thanks for all the replies to my original questions.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Hi All,

This is the OP, though i have no way of proving it!

But if you had registered originally .

Just thought I'd finish off the thread i started and say I went with IDNET home max in the end,

Have to say, the whole process with them has been excellent - particularly the phone number where someone (who knows what they're talking about) answers after two rings.

Best of all, i placed the order last Friday. It's now wednesday, essentially three days later, and Im now online at my max possible 8128kbps - a day earlier than they said I would be (i appreciate this will prob come down a bit).

Anyway, so far, a faultless service.

Thanks for all the replies to my original questions.

Should be great. Enjoy .

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

i am on the Westwood exchange

There are two so is it Peterborough or Warrington?

Warrington

There are no LLU providers at the exchange so the Sky product you use must be Connect, which in some part explains the poor speed your connection runs at in the evening.
You'll only get up to 8Mbps products from the exchange or there is cable which must be available in some areas.

Plusnet are OK if you can work with their traffic management system, because the exchange isn't market 3 you don't get the cheap price for the broadband every month after the initial 3 months.

Two other ISPs worth a look at are IDNet and Zen who some label as Premium ISPs, they don't throttle speeds and have a UK based CS, they are naturally more expensive than Plusnet.

http://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/defaul...

http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/broadband/home-offi...

Of course anything else is going to seem expensive when compared to free BB

Edited by Apprentice (Thu 03-Feb-11 20:03:42)

Hi Fig,

Im on the same exchange as you (Westwood) and also find it really frustrating trying to get a decent deal/performance from any isp through this very limited exchange.
I cant beleave that this exchange is classed as market 2 when most people on it are limited to ipstream and the virgin media enabled lines are in the vast minority.
I have been using demon for the last 4 years and watched my speed reduce from 6meg to 1.5meg but If i try in the early hours of the morning im back at 6meg again.
I feel trapped on this exchange as I cannot find an alternative provider that appeals to me.

In reply to a post by aabs:

I feel trapped on this exchange as I cannot find an alternative provider that appeals to me.

Why? What is so appealing about Demon if the service you get is so bad? See this comparison, and also possibly the Post Office and Orange.

Most of those are monthly contracts so no problem moving again.

I feel trapped as which ever provider I use it will still be BT ipstream resold by another provider. Hence the OP question just go with BT.

I dont want to keep changing provider as its a pain updating online accounts and contacts with new email addresses. Call me old fashioned but I prefer my ISP email address rather than web based email addresses. Being stuck in a market 1 or very limited market 2 exchange makes the task so much more difficult to find a quality ISP at a decent price.

Or just buy your own domain name and get a paid for mail service then if you move ISP nothing changes.

I pay less than £1 per month for the service and I have been using my own domain now for 6 years now and it is a lot more convinient than using ISP mail.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Or just buy your own domain name and get a paid for mail service then if you move ISP nothing changes.

I pay less than £1 per month for the service and I have been using my own domain now for 6 years now and it is a lot more convinient than using ISP mail.

I agree. Not just more convenient either. You get to choose your own address. No wierdo ISP dream-ups.

Not all BT Wholesale ISPs are the same. The quality varies enormously, amongst the worst being the non-LLU products from LLU companies such as Demon, Sky and O2. They just have it there so they can claim to be national ISPs, not just some areas.

Did you click the comparison link I gave you? All BT Wholesale based, and where was BT Broadband in there?

But to make any concrete suggestions, as I said before, we need to know your usage pattern, download needs, and maximum budget. How much are you paying Demon at the moment, and what allowance does that give?

Putting up with the pretty lousy performance you say you have is daft, and BT Broadband may or may not be the right move for you. We haven't enough information to say .

I was about to create a new thread asking much the same question so I hope everyone doesn't mind if I chip in. Hopefully my own experience might be useful to some too.

I'm stuck in a Market 1 exchange as well, and although it's FTTC enabled, all the exchanges in NI are and I'm not holding out much hope for fibre any time soon as we're in a rural area. When we moved out here I got O2's Home Access which was actually fine for nearly a year, then it became horribly congested so I moved to IDNet.

As most of their customers seem to agree, their service is very good, and any reliability issues have been problems with BT infrastructure. Having a cap hasn't bothered me up until now as I was happy to schedule any larger downloads like P2P or software updates to after midnight, but we've recently started streaming a lot more video in the evenings. I upgraded to their Home Max package over Christmas but even that is looking a bit on the tight side for peak downloads now (9am-midnight).

I was with PlusNet a few years ago when I lived in the city, and was happy enough until I fell out with them over a billing issue (sneaky cancellation fee on a supposedly 1 month rolling contract). I'd rather not leave IDNet as I think they're amongst the best around for a BT wholesale product, but are there other ISPs around who have larger caps (especially evenings and weekends) and at least passable customer service?

Most of our usage is web browsing, like I said I don't mind keeping heavy traffic to off peak times anyway, but streaming means we could do with some more bandwidth before midnight. Also, I'd rather not go with an ISP that enforces use of their own equipment like O2 or Sky as I'd like to leave my hardware as is. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I moved from BT to fast.co.uk, and found them excellent.

UK based support staff I think in Godalming, who do anything they can to help.

I assume you mean only certain cabinets are FTTC enabled, and yours isn't one? Have you checked your postcode for when it might be?

As you are on Home Max that implies the exchange is not WBC enabled. In which case I suggest you look at Family 30 from vivaciti or Standard Home 30 from ADSL24.

Similar looking products but the vivaciti one is through Enta and I think the ADSL24 one is through Daisy(Murphx). How they compare on performance with IDNet I wouldn't like to say, particularly as this can depend on the routing from NI. I suggest you do start a new thread asking for views from anyone on these on your exchange, or at least in NI, as I'm not really up to date on customer reports for them. Usenet seems to be a current issue for some customers on Enta though.

The main difference for you is that the weekends are unlimited. Also - cheaper. I haven't checked the overnight period, I'll leave that to you. Is your IDNet static IP address important?

(Edit - typo).

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 09-Jan-12 23:42:44)

Thanks for the replies. In answer to your questions RobertoS, our exchange is not WBC or LLU enabled, and there is no date for 21CN or FTTC (it's a small exchange and we're not that far away by country standards so it's possible the line is directly connected). And while it's nice to have a static IP, there isn't much I would use it for anymore, so it's not a big deal. I'm more concerned about bandwith, customer service and absence of throttling/traffic management.

I'll certainly look into those suggestions - both ADSL24 and vivavity are cheaper, plus there's unlimited weekend use as you say, which I think will make a difference. I have a friend in Glasgow on ADSL24's LLU service and have had very good reports, for some reason it didn't occur to me they would have a wholesale offering before when I was shopping around.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

You can't compare anyone's LLU service with their own BT Wholesale offerings. Some may be similar, some may be wildly different. All you can compare in such a case is the customer service.

The two I gave you are both BT Wholesale, (as I expect you realise), just through different 2nd level wholesalers of that. Those services may be compared in full, which is what I suggested.