Think of migrating - Vivaciti to Be

Hi all,

Been with Vivaciti (Enta reseller) for a few years now, really been quite happy with them. I'm on the Family 30 package, pay £19.78 pm, and I'm currently showing the following basic stats:

DownStream Connection Speed: 6848 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps

My exchange at Hockley Essex (EAHAW) has Be LLU available. Been reading good things about them, and according to Be I could get

Downstream: up to 14Mb
Upstream: up to 1.2Mb

Now these are some impressive numbers, for me anyway; it's the upstream I'd really like to improve, but the downstream looks great too. Be claim no traffic shaping, port blocking, cappage or anything like that. I'd probably go for the Be Value package at £17pm, and save a couple of quid in the process.

I'd need to use the Be Box I think, as I'm pretty sure my Netgear DG834v2 isn't going to hack it, which is a shame as I do like that trusty Netgear box.

So all in all this looks almost too good to be true. Is it? Is there a flaw in my thinking? I don't think I'm a massive user, probably 30Gb pm total traffic and Be claimed (on the phone at least) that wouldn't "Be" a problem.

Can anybody see anything wrong here, or anything I should look out for?

Thanks!

No, Be looks ideal for you, but post your router stats so we can confirm its estimates, which are only based on BT's unreliable database.

Get a cheap (about £20 new) DG834G v4 or DG834GT on eBay; better the latter as its hard to find out the former's version.

Thanks for your reply.

Is this what you mean, or is there something more detailed I should be looking for (sorry, can't see how to display it better in this forum)?

Connection Speed 6848 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 30db 8db
Noise Margin 11db 25db

The attenuation looks as if it has been reported incorrectly by the router, 30db down/ 8db up
but going on those figures you could see around 16mbits down and 2.5mbits upstream on fastpath with a 3db target snr ob the pro annex m package,
or 18mbit down ant the full 1.4mbit sync up on unlimited fastpath

I'd say about 15-16 Meg Down and 1.3 Up on Be Unlimited.

Wow - thanks. Those numbers sound great.

Any pitfalls to look out for these days, moving to/from an LLU provider?

Have a chat with vivaciti as they do LLU via tiscali exchanges

I would go to Talktalk for £3.49 p/m for 9 months then £6.99. it has a 40gb usage limit but if you need more upgrade to unlimited @ £14.99 and includes unlimited calls. They are starting doing fibre in may for an extra £10. you will have to wait until it is upgraded, if ever!
Be is good but there prices have gone up to much.
you will have to take your line rental to talktalk @£12.60
p.s. sign up via topcashback for £40 cashback. let me know if you haven't a topcashback account as i can recommend a friend for a fiver reward.

just done the maths, it works out equivalent to £1.03 p/m , if you can find a better deals i will be amazed!, p.s. ends in three days so be quick getting your mac code to order it!.

just noticed has a FTTC Date of 1/9/2011
as mentioned you could get 40meg around this time for an extra £10 p/m

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Apr-11 21:07:36)

Not much to add to the previous posts, as a few strong opinions have been voiced about alternatives that I know little about, but you can feel safe regarding all your questions about Be.

In particular:-

"Be claim no traffic shaping, port blocking, cappage or anything like that.".
This is true. The only problems are a slightly flaky DNS server system and occasional, (maybe a couple of times a month), network-wide or localised slowdowns for a few hours, as their peering to the rest of the internet outside the UK is not particularly resilient.

So if a major hub such as Linx has a problem, Be can be affected more than a BT Wholesale-based service such as the one you are on. BT Wholesale has an extremely resilient network.

"probably 30Gb pm total traffic and Be claimed (on the phone at least) that wouldn't "Be" a problem"
It's amazing you didn't hear the person at the other end of the phone fall off their chair laughing

They have many customers taking more than 100MB per month, and you don't have to worry about peak/off-peak either. Several customers claim to take over 500GB per month, and I believe them, and there are certainly some who have taken over 1TB in a month, though how regularly I don't know. Rest assured !

The BeBox is a Technicolor (used to be SpeedTouch) 585v7 with custom firmware. Very good on their network but needs to have one side propped up by 1"/2.5cm or so to create an airflow through, otherwise it can overheat and get in a mess. Don't place it on anything soft that it can sink into and block the air inlets. The wireless is sometimes reported as not brilliant but mine was adequate.

Your Netgear 834v2 would be terrible! The v4 or the GT that have been recommended would be fine. They sync a couple of hundred kbps slower than the BeBox though, and also in my experience 0.5% lower throughput on that sync. They are however easily tweakable wrt noise margin, whereas the BeBox cannot be tweaked at all, and on your line that would probably give up to 1Mbps higher connection/throughput speed plus greater stability.

I recommend you try the BeBox first, and certainly for the first 4 days don't even think of trying your v2 Netgear. There is a DLM runs for 2-4 days, similar go the BT 10-day training period, but then it is switched off. You don't want to play around at that time.

I have also been with vivaciti for a few years now, but lately been dissapointed with my speeds;
downstream 3136Kb upstream 768Kb.
today wnet to speetest.net to check the speed and was very dissapointed;
0.5 mbps download with 0.6 upload!! tried again jusr now aand got 1.42 download & 0.64 upload.
Very poor i think anyone have an idea why?
Alos noticed i am with o-bit telecom now when i am sure it used to be entanet,

In reply to a post by mjm383:

Alos noticed i am with o-bit telecom now when i am sure it used to be entanet,

That seems odd. Vivaciti are one of the resellers that as well as adding other wholesalers kept their relationship with Enta going. I didn't think they swapped anyone away unless they asked to move to one of the other packages. What package are you on?

In reply to a post by mjm383:

I have also been with vivaciti for a few years now, but lately been dissapointed with my speeds;
downstream 3136Kb upstream 768Kb.
today wnet to speetest.net to check the speed and was very dissapointed;
0.5 mbps download with 0.6 upload!! tried again jusr now aand got 1.42 download & 0.64 upload.
Very poor i think anyone have an idea why?
Alos noticed i am with o-bit telecom now when i am sure it used to be entanet,

Is BE available at your exchange?

Just to jump back on my original thread....

First off, thanks to all the people who replied. I have for the time being stayed with Vivaciti and am now on their "Surfwise Variety" package, which is LLU ADSL2+. Allegedly.

I got hold of a second hand DG834GT as suggested, made sure it was working fine before the switch over but the new service doesn't seem very stable. My old ADSL Max was rock solid (Entanet), but this line struggles to stay up for 24 hours. I have raised a ticket and Vivaciti are working on it, but at the moment my sync speed seems to be dropping and my noise margin going up. So I guess something is being "adjusted" somewhere.

My last speedtest showed 10Mbps down and 0.8Mbs upload.

Anybody able to offer some advice? Much appreciated...

Are those stats from the test socket within the BT master socket? If not could you check the stats there.

In reply to a post by john2007:

Are those stats from the test socket within the BT master socket? If not could you check the stats there.

Master socket yes, via an ADSL Nation faceplate as recommended by Vivacit. I have tried the test socket a few days back and could see no discernable difference. I may try again tonight though. I am also waiting on a (second-hand) DG834v5 which I was going to try in the vain hope that it might be better than the DG834GT.

There's a difference between the master socket and the test socket - which have you tried?

In reply to a post by coldnebraskablue:

Anybody able to offer some advice? Much appreciated...

Migrate to BE

Earlier you said you had an 834v2, now you say you are waiting for an 834v5 to replace an 834GT. All these little variations in name make a huge difference on Netgears, as they all mean different chipsets inside. In other words, a completely different piece of equipment.

Edit - just realised the GT was because it was recommended for use with Be. End of edit.

The last comment I saw from vivaciti about the v5 was not complimentary, but that was for use on their LLU Unlimited I think. Which probably connects to different exchange kit from Surfwise Variety.

Did you ask them what they recommend?

No disrespect to vivaciti, who I admire greatly, but I think you made a wrong move there. Let's hope I'm proved wrong fairly quickly.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 11-May-11 20:36:00)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Earlier you said you had an 834v2, now you say you are waiting for an 834v5 to replace an 834GT. All these little variations in name make a huge difference on Netgears, as they all mean different chipsets inside. In other words, a completely different piece of equipment.

Edit - just realised the GT was because it was recommended for use with Be. End of edit.

I *have* been running with a v2 for years on ADSL and ADSL Max, no problem. Yes, I remember the GT was recommended for Be, but when I spoke to Vivaciti they said they recommended it too. So it seemed like a no-brainer. So far the GT is the *ONLY* router I have tried with this LLU connection.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The last comment I saw from vivaciti about the v5 was not complimentary, but that was for use on their LLU Unlimited I think. Which probably connects to different exchange kit from Surfwise Variety.

So I guess I've just wasted another £15 on ebay. Not the end of the world, but you live and learn.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Did you ask them what they recommend?

When I told the guy I was using a GT he said "Oh, we recommend those". Any other problem is down to my wiring allegedly. Wiring that has never been a problem in the 6 or 7 years I have had broadband in this house. And was absolutely fine right before the switchover.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

No disrespect to vivaciti, who I admire greatly, but I think you made a wrong move there. Let's hope I'm proved wrong fairly quickly.

Yes, it's looking that way. Serves me right for trying to stick with a company I trusted and liked. Albeit one that still operates monthly contracts. And frankly if this is how ADSL2+ is going to be then I'm wondering if I move to Be (or anybody else) on a 12 month contract whether I'd be any better off.

You know, this might sound naive, but if a router is supposed to work on ADSL2+ then it should [censored] well work on ADSL2+. Too much guess work involved.

For the record - DG834GT (Sky one with correct latest Netgear firmware) --> ADSL Nation faceplate on master socket. Only one phone extension, no Sky extension or burglar alarm or anything else.

@JonRennie - Yes I know there is a difference between the master socket and the test socket, I think I mentioned I have tried both. Tonight I am going to try the test socket again and leave the phone disconnected all day tomorrow. Ho hum.

Thanks...

Looks like one thing has improved there - it looks like a monthly contract. Though I get the feeling the migration-in charges that would be absorbed by the monthly fee may become payable if you leave before 6 months.

I suspect there is a fault with the exchange end, or the GT is duff. There's also a chance it is over-heating, so try standing it on end if you haven't, on a hard not soft surface, and out of direct sunlight.

Oh - try the v5. You never know!

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 11-May-11 21:45:14)

The v5 is one of the worst routers I've ever had experience with on BE and other BT and LLU ISP's

In reply to a post by nredwood:

The v5 is one of the worst routers I've ever had experience with on BE and other BT and LLU ISP's

Canyou share what you use now?

Speedtouch 780WL

Also have a Netgear DG834GT, Speedtouch 585v7 and TG587nv2

Have tried Voyager 2091 and BT Business Hub (2Wire 2700HGV) which have both performed pretty well

The GT is OK, but doesn't perform too well on my line for some reason

In reply to a post by nredwood:

Speedtouch 780WL

Also have a Netgear DG834GT, Speedtouch 585v7 and TG587nv2

Have tried Voyager 2091 and BT Business Hub (2Wire 2700HGV) which have both performed pretty well

The GT is OK, but doesn't perform too well on my line for some reason

Ah! So I'm not the only one who collects routers

In reply to a post by nredwood:

Speedtouch 780WL

Also have a Netgear DG834GT, Speedtouch 585v7 and TG587nv2

Have tried Voyager 2091 and BT Business Hub (2Wire 2700HGV) which have both performed pretty well

The GT is OK, but doesn't perform too well on my line for some reason

Thanks

I don't want to speak too soon, but my line *may* have settled down (or been "fixed") as I've now had a solid connection for 41 hours. New personal best on this package.

I have several more than that!

In reply to a post by coldnebraskablue:

I don't want to speak too soon, but my line *may* have settled down (or been "fixed") as I've now had a solid connection for 41 hours. New personal best on this package.

I spoke too soon - line stayed up for 100 hours but speedtest showed download speed of 0.7Mbs. Utter cr@p. Reboot router and speedtest shows 11Mbs.