O2 LLU to Sky or BT Infinity ?

Hello folks.

Sorry for the long winded post but I just wanted to give as much info as possible

It's been a few years since I've 'delved' into Broadband too much. I've been with O2 (Standard Old Package, i.e. Unlimited everything) for a number of years at 3 different properties but can get no more than a 8mb connection. Due to leaving O2 Mobile Network recently our package will increase by £5 a month to £14.50, currently £9.50.

This has got me wondering about increased speeds elsewhere. Sky is tempting due to it's lower price of £10 a month for unlimited (No Sky TV) but there checker states:

'Estimated Access Line Speed: 5.0Mbps - 11.4Mbps'

I do not want to move to Sky if I'm going to get less than the 8mb I get with O2 but being able to get 11mb+ would be an improvement I guess. Can anyone tell what I may get with them from my O2 Box stats?

SamKnows states: 'You are approximately 1.59km from the exchange. Note that this is the straight line distance'

Uptime: 65 days, 21:39:48
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,217 / 10,284
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,200 / 8,183
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 98.34 / 210.70
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 43.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 6.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 12 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 319 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 17,461 / 13,109,822
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 17,461 / 28,399
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 164,778 / 24,514

I pay Post Office £12.25 a month for Home Phone which I don't use only to get the Broadband, there is no long contract period. Sky Home Phone is the same at £12.25 a month so no problem moving there, and I'd get a new Wireless N router as opposed to the O2 Box II i've had for sometime.

My exchange (Chapel End - CMCHAP) has recently been enabled for FTTC which is why BT Infinity attracted me although it would come at a cost (£28 a month i believe + £13.90 Line rental), but the 38.7mb/10.7mb estimate would be pleasing for a user like myself. I download/stream from various sources and my son also uses Xbox Live most days and we also use Wi-fi for our Android Phones. I have read BT throttle at certain times of the day, how does the throttling affect P2P and Xbox Live?

Any help and advice would be appreciated, whilst I knew a little about Broadband 3-4 years back, family and home life has taken over so I'm not at all clued up like I used to be.

Your thoughts are most welcome

Cheers, Dan

With your attenuation (43.5dB) the quoted "Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,217 / 10,284" is probably not far off.
If you were to switch to a higher speed O2 package (or to another ADSL2+ provider which has a cap higher than 8Mbps - e.g. Sky, BE) you'd probably see a sync somewhere around 10 to 12Mbps (maybe a little more).
So you need to decide if it's worth paying more for around a 25% speed increase.

You can get FTTC (either BT's "Infinity" product, or "fibre" from one of the many other ISPs which use Openreach's FTTC product), but like you say it's a little more expensive.
BT are not the only ISP to offer FTTC (even though their TV adverts are deliberately worded to make people think Infinity "only from BT" is, indeed, the only way to get fibre). Unfortunately BT's Infinity product is one of the cheaper ones (so you're, pretty much, going to be looking around the £28/month price point).
Talk-Talk also do "fibre", at a cost of £10 on top of their normal prices (making it £3.50/month cheaper than BT's Infinity and £1.30/month cheaper than BT's line rental), although I can't comment on the performance of the Talk-Talk fibre product (there are enough complaints about their regular ADSL products to make me worried about their ability to provide a decent fibre product).
BT's line rental can be had for £10 a month, but you have to pay each year up-front.

Edited by adebov (Fri 26-Aug-11 18:45:46)

Hi Ade, thanks for your reply.

I definately do not want to go to anyone else, certainly not TalkTalk lol.

As for 'So you need to decide if it's worth paying more for around a 25% speed increase.' I didn't get that bit sorry, if I were to go to Sky and possibly get the 10-12mb you mention may be obtainable, then it would only cost me £7.50-£10.00 a month with their current offers (plus line rental £12.25) as opposed to O2 which is due to go up to £14.50 this month for an 8mb connection. Maybe you mean move to a 'new' o2 package (throttles/limited downloads) which would cost more?

If I do decide that I'd prefer the faster 40mb Fibre then BT would win that hands down as £28 a month is as much as I'd like to pay really, there aren't that many unlimited services out there these days for a 'reasonable' amount.

My only concern is that the throttling may effect me at some point with BT. So really all I need now is any info on BT's throttling of P2P and Xbox Live etc.

For example: with O2's 8mb connection, on average I can download via P2P at 800-900kbps without being throttled due to being on the old style package. With BT Infinity and a 38mb connection, what will my 'Off Peak' download speeds be, and also when they are throttled during peak hours?

O2 8mb = 800-900kbps at all times

Sky 20mb = Not throttled I believe so should maybe get a slightly higher download speed as O2?

BT Infinity Unlimited = ???kbs/mbs Peak

BT Infinity Unlimited = ???kbs/mbs Off Peak (After Midnight I think)

It states on BT site:

'We manage these restrictions daily based on the demands on the network, but downstream restrictions will typically be in place 4pm - midnight on weekdays and 9am - midnight on the weekend. Upstream restrictions may be in place at other times.'


But doesn't go into detail much.

Cheers

Edited by danny2005 (Fri 26-Aug-11 19:17:12)

In reply to a post by danny2005:

With BT Infinity and a 38mb connection, what will my 'Off Peak' download speeds be, and also when they are throttled during peak hours?

I won't be in a position to answer for another 10 days (when my Infinity goes live - hopefully, and assuming BT don't mess it up a second time).

Most reports on here suggest pretty much full speed at most times with only 'torrents' suffering from throttling by BT (with peak time speeds reported to be very low).
Allegedly; BT don't throttle normal http transfers, or Usenet (just torrents).
Either way (apart from torrents, which are heavily throttled), I can't see your peak time download speed (from BT) falling to below that available from your ADSL2+ line (so you're unlikely to be worse off).

And yes; I did mean more expense if you choose to stay with O2 (but on a higher speed product).

Just a (not so) minor point.

If you take Sky LLU Unlimited and Sky Talk, you can leave your phone rental where it is. In my opinion that would be wise, as it makes leaving Sky if desired in the futuure much easier, and less risky.

If you take Sky LLU Unlimited and Sky Rental then your line is removed from the BT Wholesale system and has to be returned to it in order to migrate the broadband away. That can get messed up. The latest example being this thread.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The latest example being this thread.

There might be another one in 11 days

Nah!

You are on SMPF, not MPF.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Nah!

You are on SMPF, not MPF.

Oh I get it....
SMPF = Slightly More Probability of a F***** up
MPF = Minor Probability of a F**** up

"Foul" only has three letters.

Still trying to work out the first 'F' word (with six letters) and the second (with five)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just a (not so) minor point.

If you take Sky LLU Unlimited and Sky Talk, you can leave your phone rental where it is. In my opinion that would be wise, as it makes leaving Sky if desired in the futuure much easier, and less risky.

If you take Sky LLU Unlimited and Sky Rental then your line is removed from the BT Wholesale system and has to be returned to it in order to migrate the broadband away. That can get messed up. The latest example being this thread.

Cheers for posting. I did notice this in the small print for Sky broadband...

'BT/Sky Line Rental payable. Sky Line Rental required (£12.25 a month) if you join Sky Broadband or Talk from 1/9/11.'

So it looks like from 1/9/2011, it is going to be mandatory to have your line rental with Sky too?

Maybe I should make the move before Thursday hmmm. Does Post Office Count as a 'BT' line though?

Cheers

Ahhh, they've picked up on people being told about this . Also perhaps got wider coverage of LLU than they used to.

And Yes, the Post Office qualifies as a BT Line for all other ISPs, and the Post Office also accept other broadband suppliers on it - not all phone suppliers accept anything but their own broadband.

OMG...

I'm currently on Sky Live Chat talking to someone... is it me or are they thick? here we go:

Chat InformationPlease wait for a Sky Advisor to respond.

Chat InformationYou are now connected with Reshma

Reshma : Hi. Welcome to Sky, home of HD. You're chatting to Reshma . Can I take your name please?

You: Hello. My name is Dan

Reshma : Hi Dan, How are you doing today?

You: I'm fine thankyou. I'm pretty sure after reading up on things that I'm going to move my Broadband to Sky but I wanted to confirm a few things first

Reshma : How can I help today?

You: I understand it is a 12 month contract but what happens if I move address during the 12 month period?

Reshma : you can move it along with you

Reshma : and it will cost you £39

You: Abd what if I wanted to cancel before the 12 months are up? For instance, if Sky LLU Broadband was not available at a new property?

You: ANd*

Reshma : you will need to pay the early cancellation fee

You: What is that fee?

Reshma : that will be the month of contract that you have not paid

Reshma : for eg. if you cancel after 6 months

Reshma : you will pay rest 6 months contract

You: Okay thankyou, that is quite clear. One other thing. It states in the small print 'BT/Sky Line Rental payable. Sky Line Rental required (£12.25 a month) if you join Sky Broadband or Talk from 1/9/11.' Does this mean that from 1/9/2011 Sky Line Rental is mandatory if you want Sky Broadband? It seems you can currently join Sky Broadband and keep line rental elsewhere?

Reshma : yes that is right

You: Thankyou for confirming that. Can you just give me the costs for a 12 month contract if I sign up to 'Unlimited' Broadband. Is I only want Broadband, and not line rental what are the costs, and also if I want broadband and the Free Sky Talk (but not line rental) what are those costs? I see their are various offers with certain months free or half price

Reshma : if you take broadband and talk you can get 6 months half price discount

You: So broadband is £10.00 a month for Unlimited and Ky Talk Free?

You: Sky*

Reshma : Broadband Unlimited £10

Reshma : Line rental with Freetime calls £12.25

Reshma : Monthly £22.25

Reshma : 1st 6 months £16.81 as Broadband is Half Price

Reshma : One Off £35

Reshma : Free Wireless router.

Reshma : 12 months McAfee AvtiVirus FREE

Reshma : Voice Mail & Caller Display FREE

Reshma : and if you place your order now you will only pay £10 as One Off

Reshma : how does that sound?

You: There is no mention of a one off £35 fee during the sign up pages? What is that fee? Thankyou

Reshma : as I said now it is £10 for the new line installation

You: Okay thankyou. What is the new line instalation? We alreay have a phone line?

Reshma : Our broadband requires an active BT or Sky line.

Reshma : Do you have an active BT line already? If not, we may be able to arrange a Sky Talk line installation at your property.

You: Yes we have a working phone line but our Broadband is currently with O2. I believe all I need is a MAc to transfer my Broadband with no interruptions?

Reshma : yes MAC will help to transfer your Broadband with no interruptions

Reshma : however to get our Broadband you need BT or sky line

Reshma : Would you like our line rental? It is just £12.25 a month, all your bills will be in one place and Sky Talk have just come top in the Uswitch customer satisfaction survey for the third year in a row.

You: I have stated a least twice further up ^^^^ the page that Line renatl is not required as I currently have a line which I'm happy with (no long contract period) I just wanted the cost for Unlimited Broadband with or without Sky Talk if it will save me money? Is that possible?

You: *rental* sorry

Reshma : Our broadband requires an active BT or Sky line

Reshma : would you like to install our line as we need the line for broadband installation'


PULLING WHAT LITTLE HAIR I HAVE OUT TO SAY THE LEAST! lol

If that is what Sky is all about then god help me eh.

Is ' I currently have a working line' not English these days?


AM I missing something folks?

Cheers, Dan.

Same old, same old.
"Support" person reading from a script with very little understanding of the product (which is why I normally try to do everything on-line).
Somehow you're going to have to word your questions in a way that fits their script.

They are fixating on the "Our broadband requires an active BT or Sky line" bit.
When you said "Line renatl is not required as I currently have a line which I'm happy with", she obviously interpreted that as "I don't want a line".

Maybe say something like "here is the phone number of my line 0xxxx xxxxxx; I'd like to have Sky Unlimited broadband on that line. It is a BT line and I want to keep the line rental with my current provider".
See how that goes.

Well after a few weeks of umm'ing and arr'ing I gave my O2 MAC to Sky today (which came via email within an hour of calling O2 yesterday) pleasantly. The difference between Sky 'Foreign' live chat and telephoning them to confirm a few things this morning was a completely different service. Questions answered by an English rep quite easily and acurately (hopefully).

I've been given the connection date of Wednesday 7th September so hopefully my new Wireless 'N' Router will be with me before then. I asked 3 different people on live chat whether or not I would get the G Router or N Router, they each gave a different reply (YES, NO, and Depends on Stock) The nice English gent said definately a Wireless N, which will be a nice upgrade from an old O2 Box II.

The cost and P2P restrictions on BT Infinity were the decider, more the restrictions than the cost to be fair. I still wanted the Unlimited service of my O2 Standard (old package) and as much as the 38mb line would have been nice, I didn't want any download restriction that are on Infinity. Hoping Sky eventually make Fibre available in the near future (Signed up to be alerted for the Trials which I can't find much info about)

I have kept my line rental with the Post Office as there is no contract period and is still £12.25 like Sky, although as I stated further up this thread, it seems Sky are making it mandatory to take their Line Rental if you want Broadband with them from 1/9/2011 for those who don't realise and are thinking of joining them too.

Thanks for your input/s

Fingers crossed it all goes smootly! :0)

Dan

Edited by danny2005 (Mon 29-Aug-11 12:33:44)

Don't forget to return the O2 box - you should get a text soon saying the jiffy bag has been despatched. (They call it your "accessory" I think).

Also once you have migrated, make sure you phone O2 to make sure they know.

Yes, the O2 rep did state a postage bag would be sent out. I received the confirmation that had been sent today.

I'm not sure how the billing will work mind. I had my monthly O2 email today saying 'We'll take the payment from your bank account on, or shortly after, 12/09/11.' But it seems pointless paying that bill if they are then going to pay me some back (no idea, maybe they wont) I may cancel the Direct Debit once connected to Sky and wait for a 'final' bill perhaps. All I know is that I'm not one of the silly ones that leave a direct debit set up and let a company keep taking payments even once you've left them lol

Cheers

Despite what you say I recommend leaving the d/d in place until the account is straight. Cancelling it causes chaos in most ISP refund systems, and is one of the most common causes of account-grief on these forums.

I don't think O2 have ever been reported here as screwing up if it is left. In fact I didn't cancel mine for a while - when I noticed it hadn't been used for a while when looking for something totally unrelated..