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Hello guys my name is David and i have been reading up about broadband for abit on here and its just confused me more...
I just moved into a place and have been with no net for 2 months now...just using my phone...its torture....i need access to internet...im a big gamer...and need to download big files for my job.
I dont want to be throttled or traffic managed or something...
From what i hear the best options would be something like
Be?
or
Sky?
but the prices of Be unlimited are close to virgin media ..and thats fibre optic...is that not better?
sorry like i say this is all confusing to me and im vvery ignorant...
Hope you can all help...oh and i live in north london and i think i have access to good services
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David here again...just to add im using my phone to research about this so its very hard for me to do the best research..that is why im asking this question instead...(im not just being lazy  )
so hope you can help me..
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Virgin Media is fibre to the node, still coax into the home. Plus can be congested in areas and if your property does not already have it installed it is very hard to get. Does Virgin say you can have thier 50 or 100 Meg service, avoid their National service.
The slower/cheaper virgin options do have throttling. Only their premium 50 and 100Meg are clear.
Why waited two months, a long time if downloads are crucial for work.
Be/Sky are fine, Sky is more a joe average product, Be tends to be more a geeks choice.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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I have waited 2 months because we did not know if we are going to be living here for sure but now we are pretty positive we are staying here for a while...
I do have the Virgin 50/100mb internet availible for me and already have the cable connections installed from the past tennant....
I keep leaning towards Be as it seems like quality service.
But i also have about 10 years of history with sky so maybe they can make me a deal.
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Oh and also we keep getting advice from friends to wait until Xmas...that it would be so much cheaper. How true is this? because i do not look forward to waiting until Xmas with no internet.
btw thanks for the advice you have given already!
I just dont want to be stuck in a contract with something i will regret....
It seems like alot of people regret Virgin and havent heard many complaints with Be.
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Not true. Go with Virgin Cable.
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Hmmm so Virgin 50mb would be like £672 for 18 months
and Be would be £576 for 18 months
But i would be getting double speed...
Will there be any traffic shaping or whatever?
and how is virgins "fair usage" policy?
Im considering Virgin more now...
But still leaning to Be for its pure quality + cheaper service
this is driving me crazy!
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You are connected to the Upper Holloway telephone exchange.
ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL2+ services
According to BT Wholesale, houses at your postcode should be able to support
up to 2Mbps via ADSL
7.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max
17Mbps or greater via ADSL2+
Standard ADSL RAG results
You can receive 2Mbps ADSL
You can receive 1Mbps ADSL
You can receive 512kbps ADSL
You can receive 256kbps ADSL
You are approximately 755 metres from the exchange. Note that this is the straight line distance - the actual cable length will be longer!
I dont really know what this means...is this what i should be looking at from samknows?
or something else?
Thanks for your help btw!
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Damn... Last month virgin had a pretty good deal on + cashback but now its not so good (free tivo) so maybe il wait just a few more days until next month and see if there are any better deals. My budget keeps getting higher and higher but if its really worth it il think about it
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It looks like you're fairly close to the exchange which means you might get a reasonable speed if you went down the ADSL route. You might be able to get an even faster service called FTTC. See https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/B... (postcode will work if you don't have a phone number but it won't be as accurate).
I would still go for Virgin Media Cable. It might be worth asking your neighbours about the speeds they receive.
Edited by Zadeks (Mon 24-Oct-11 11:55:56)
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Yes i apparently can get FTTC from what that website tells me.
Ok so the only thing stopping me from getting the Virgin 50mb deal is the price...
but i guess Be price is not that far off either.
from what i gather...Virgin 30mb would not be good for me...
So 50mb at £672 for 18months it would be around £37 a month....ouch
and £32 a month on Be.....also rather ouchy
i guess you get what you pay for...
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Indeed. BT Infinity is cheaper (an FTTC product). They traffic shape P2P during peak.
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so i called Be and was informed that there would also be a £85 set up fee...so in total the price seems to be alot closer to the virgin deal than i thought...and she also informed me at 800m from my telephone exchange she predicts my download speed will be 10-14mbps....
doesnt sound too good...but she also said it depends on my line....
I guess my only option right now seems to be Virgin XXL....
im guessing i would get 100% 50mb speeds most of the time with no throttling and decent fair usage
its alot more than i thought i would ever be spending on internet tbh and i hate the fact that its a 18 month contract but i dont have much choice....
havent really looked into Sky but my internet is being VERY slow on my phone to research and the checkout on sky is confusing to understand on my phone....
I have heard horrible things about BT so dont know if i should even bother looking that up...
Thanks for your advice zadeks....if you have anything else to add (or anyone else) it would be greatly appreciated
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and now im being tempted to get some tv channels....this is how they get you damn it!
wish i bought it last month,..better deal(i hate tivo)...and its crazy to wait to xmas for a new deal....
its never easy!
seems like there is only cashback if i get a 3peice package....and that comes with tivo so its kind of worth it...but then il be tempted to get more channels becuase il have tivo...im going to be spending crazy amounts of money...my budget is going out of control
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AHHH this is starting to cost waaaay too much....
Im going to have to make sacrifices and get cheaper internet....
maybe the £25 pm range....
I guess il look into sky/bt
any tips?
(im not totally dismissing the virgin deal...just need to think if i need something that good)
Im still very thankful for the advice
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Only you can juggle the cost/quality equation.
Even though Virgin is not dependant on line length, service quality varies from area to area, depending on how busy their network is. Plus some moans about gaming performance, i.e. service has raw speed, but not good jitter characteristics
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Anon,
Personally if I had the chance of cable I'd jump at it - anything to avoid relying on BTw's kit and the copper pair from the cabinet (or the exchange.)
However if the cable prices are too expensive for your needs then I guess you will have to go with BTw's kit...
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Virgin Media is fibre to the node, still coax into the home. Plus can be congested in areas and if your property does not already have it installed it is very hard to get. Does Virgin say you can have thier 50 or 100 Meg service, avoid their National service.
The slower/cheaper virgin options do have throttling. Only their premium 50 and 100Meg are clear.
Why waited two months, a long time if downloads are crucial for work.
Be/Sky are fine, Sky is more a joe average product, Be tends to be more a geeks choice.
All of the Virgin Packs have Throttling in some way shape or Form except between the hours of 01.00 - 09.00
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False
http://i54.tinypic.com/2zq7ach.png
BE*Unlimited 17699 /1334Kbps
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In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Ok so the only thing stopping me from getting the Virgin 50mb deal is the price...
but i guess Be price is not that far off either.
from what i gather...Virgin 30mb would not be good for me...
So 50mb at £672 for 18months it would be around £37 a month....ouch
and £32 a month on Be.....also rather ouchy
i guess you get what you pay for...
Surely the differnec ebetween BE and Virgin is not just price. With virgin it includes TV and phone as well so would be the better and cheaper deal overall.
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He's probably referring to the P2P shaping on all packages.
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Also why I prefer to mention the 50 and 100Meg packages.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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You can get the phone line cheaper elsewhere than with BE 
Be* Unlimited
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Ok thanks everyone...think im pretty set on getting virgin...just wondering if its worth waiting to november for any deals they might have? I doubt they would tell me something like that if i called up.
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Anon,
A very good decision - I was all set on hopefully getting NTL a few back until Virgin swallowed them up and then cable never reached my area 
4M2.
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oh god in the end im going for the 50mb 160 channel + phone package for £66 a month LOL....funny how my budget nearly tripled. the 65 channel package didnt seem worth it becuase its like freeview...the 100 channel package was ok but had little HD channels....then bam they got me...........now im thinking of just paying £130 more a year and getting 100mb + 165 channels + phone .....craziness! but another part of me is thinking "go for the Be value pack!"...........................
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How many channels out of 100 does anyone use?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Anon,
Didn't realise you were that interested in loads of tv channels - I only watch the BBC news channel these days and that's on Sky free-to-view because they kicked BBC news multiscreen off terrestrial freeview
BBC iPlayer is pretty good for HD stuff though...
Maybe the Be value pack might be a better choice then as long as you don't have any problems with the BTw wires and equipment?
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Depends on what 100 provide
A package of 60 with 1 channel you watch is of little use compared to a 100 channel where you may watch 20 channels.
i.e. what is good for one person is not good for another.
For me would be XL TV £27.50
Phone £21.90
BB £25
£74 a month, so about the same as Sky which includes Zen connection. Then you dig further and find that Movies are £19.50 a monh extra and another £7 for HD. Soon stops looking less good value.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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well i wont be using most of them...but i do want the history channel/ nat geo or some decent HD channels + its going to kill me to have so little HD channels and be forced to watch almost all non HD with my new 50" panny ...but its crazy to pay almost £150 a year more.......its a tough choice...i wish i could sacrifice all the music/sport for history/nat geo...id be happy with that with the 100 channel deal....
need to think this over...
i entered this thinking of just internet...now tv has come into the picture and doubled my total....
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Sky would be cheaper. More HD too.
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Virgin throttle on all packages just like BT/TalkTalk/Orange/O2 etc do
Sky don't
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Sry btw the anon post above is not me...im the op..il start putting david on the end of my posts...
So now i have sky to think about lol...why cant it ever b simple
-david
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Hmm from what i understand...for 20mb sky plus line rental is around £20....that sounds GREAT....whats the catch? How is the unlimited "fair usage" and how is the throttling? I c ppl here r saying itdoes not throttle...but also some saying virgin does at 50mb but some saying it doesnt...so confused....i think if the unlimited is at a fair usage and there really is no throttleing then im going for sky.....its nice and cheap
-david
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With the 50 pound quidco its around £17/m...
Ordering tmrw...hope sky have good service
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It doesn't. But even if it was throttled to 20% of its maximum speed all the time, it would still be faster than most Sky connections.
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Sky Unlimited does not throttle, there is no fair use policy (this is one of their selling points) and the service has been great for me. I've been on Sky Unlimited for about a year.
Sky offer a premium broadband product at a budget price.
Sky Broadband Unlimited
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In reply to a post by Anonymous:
So now i have sky to think about lol...why cant it ever b simple
-david
Even better - register!
Only takes a moment and is a far better user experience, with more forums you can post in. We have had malicious Anons before, (not in this thread), who copy the "-david".
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/broadband/n...
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/Cxxl1.jpg
You will find that in general the big ISPs no longer throttle anything other than P2P at peak times, and no longer have fair use data limits on their unlimited packages. Your concerns are outdated. Always check of course, the Key Facts tables are great for that.
It was me who 1st added to the anons, sorry
Guido
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me too. Can't fault Sky LLU just don't go down the Sky Connect Route!
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To say just like all the others is inaccurate.
How they throttle/manage capacity is all very different. Sky while the network is below capacity is fine with its unlimited, but look at the unmanaged network of Be when it approachs capacity and you will see why having some management can be beneficial
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Ok so i called up sky and they said it would be 7.50 a month for sky unlim....12.50 for landline....and 2.50 because we dont want tv.....but first 3 months the internet will be free....the 5thbill will be around 19.75...then from the 5th bill onwards for 7 months itl be 22.25 and 30 for install..........[censored]? Is it me or are they trying to confuse the hell out of u?...the lady i was tlking to was confused herself....in the end aftershe counted the total she said it would be 224 for the year......so 18.66 a month....
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Anon,
Was the extra £2.50, because you don't want tv, only quoted to you on the phone? I can not see anything about that on the Sky website. All the "Unlimited" deals seem to involve taking a Sky TV package (from £20 a month.)
Also there is a £30 set-up fee for "Connect" for customers without Sky TV but you are looking at the "Unlimited" product which should be a free set-up, although of course normally taken with a tv package...
However if those prices quoted over the phone are true then it certainly looks like a very good deal for broadband and phone 
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If you don't take TV, Sky Broadband Unlimited is £10 per month, plus mandatory £12.25 Sky line rental and their free call package. There is no connection fee. The current offer is a discount of £5 for the first 6 months. (It does say all this on the Sky website eventually - just proceed as if you were buying online. Please do check the Sky call plans if you use your landline, no free 0845 and some nasty call rates.)
As has been said, lack of throttling is only a good thing if the network can cope. I suffered small congestion with Sky, and Be is a nightmare right now.
I don't believe there is any significant difference in how ISPs throttle P2P and how usable it is at peak times but am willing to hear details.
Guido
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Op here....somehow it ended up costing 230 in total...thats 120 for year land line...20 for installation...and 10 a month for a year with 3 months free sobin total its 230....so 19 a month..i just accepted..couldnt be arsed anymore..its a good enough price right? All sorted anyway..thanks all
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Btw for anyone interested the 12.25 line rental is not mandatory...u can choose to pay a total of 120 upfront for a year which ends up being 10 a month line rental. -david
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It is mandatory to take Sky line rental with Sky broadband. Sky line rental is not available for £120 upfront per annum and never has been, it is £12.25 per month.
Guido
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ignore above, time for bed
remember to renew upfronts after 12 mths
Guido
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I some how feel ripped of....like i could have saved 50 through quidco....but i could not see a option to pay upfront for line rental...i neex to sleep this is driving me nuts...il look into it later...hopefuly if i discover something i will be able to cancel the deal i did today on the phone and order through quidco
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Its not? So what the hell did she sell me....she said it would be 120 and it would be bt but through sky....and thay sky talk would then be free...the install date was earlier too because of differt engineers or something....i hope they didnt just sell me this upfront deal and then make me pay 12.25 on top of that...they r spinning me around in circles..confusing me...
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relax, i got it wrong, sorry!!
"Upfront Line Rental: Available to new and existing Sky Talk customers paying £119.40 for 12 months in advance by debit/credit card� equivalent to £9.95 a month. New 12 month minimum term applies. After 12 months you�ll pay monthly the then applicable Sky Talk Line Rental charge (currently £12.25 a month)."
it's all ok.
this is new: when i ordered couple of months back it definitely was not available. but they changed things on 1st Sep (including you had to take Sky line rental for the first time)
G.
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Anon,
Do Virgin cable also do a "no tv" deal with an adequate data usage per month?
It would be good to avoid BTw's line and equipment if possible...
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Lol sry just worrying..thx for renew tip
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A lot of my friends that live in virgin available areas have had trouble with online gaming, i've asked them to do a cmd ping -n100 to get a wide look over time at their pings 10ms then 1000ms then 50ms then 14ms then 900ms just a heads up i wouldn't touch if it was available to me.
All they do is complain about it but do not move because its such a good deal
*me scratches head.
edit: and sky do not do fast path iirc
Edited by TiMeTraVeLeR (Thu 27-Oct-11 11:49:27)
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I have both virgin and sky, no issues with anything. Pings always quite low unless someones aggressively downloading.
The superhub is another matter. The best thing for it - rip off the plastic outside, bin the rest & pop the plastic into the recycling box.
Honestly it drives me poppy. The GUI is inaccessible after a few days. Without modem only mode it constantly reboots itself, it resets to factory settings as-if I held a pin in the reset button all of the time.
With modem mode, the GUI is inaccessible after around 72 hours, but it doensn't reboot or reset itself. So I deal with it.
Had 3 of them, all as bad as one another. Use your own router.
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Hmm really...could u recomend a better router? Do they cost alot? Sry to ask its just kindof hard to research on the phone..thx for tip btw
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Anon,
The Virgin XL up to 30Mbps broadband and phone deal looks pretty good. Think it works out at £33.73 per month over an 18 month contract (when all the numbers are added together and divided by 18) Upload speed doesn't look that brilliant though, which may or may not be important.
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The 30mb virgin is apparently throttled and costs more...im sure i will be happy with sky and i like the fact its only 12 months...
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The superhub, switch it to bridge mode and then use your own wireless router
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Ah that is good to hear ukhardy07 do you game at all on the service?
It is just that my on-line friends are from different parts of the country and all see lag and all have no way moments all the time especial when hosting on twitch games like cod
I was thinking when cod's game engine was made the id Tech 3 (Quake III Arena) first used in cod in 2003 fast internet was not around and that 50mb packages were a pipe dream of the future.
My guess is the lag compensation does not know how to process it properly.
50mb was here when black ops was made but still there is prob when my friends host which is 90% of the time because they have a fast connection they cannot kill an enemy
If any of this is wrong and if there are many virgin gamers who are happy i was not in anyway trying to rubbish the service just commenting what i have seen through my friends accounts.
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Agreed. Good decision.
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Op here. So i should be getting my line connected in a week...i noticed ppl recomending that i ask them to lower my max delay to 8? Should i do this when they connect my line? What r pros and cons for lowering my max delay to 8? Will my downloads be slower? I would b doing it for lower gaming latency
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Lower latency. Line might not be as stable.
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Hey guys...OP here....im having a bit of a problem with my Sky now....i was told on the phone that i would get around 14-16mb internet...this is what samknows says
You are connected to the Upper Holloway telephone exchange.
ADSL is available in your area
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL Max services
Your exchange is also enabled for ADSL2+ services
According to BT Wholesale, houses at your postcode should be able to support
up to 2Mbps via ADSL
7.5Mbps or greater ADSL connection via ADSL Max
17Mbps or greater via ADSL2+
Standard ADSL RAG results
You can receive 2Mbps ADSL
You can receive 1Mbps ADSL
You can receive 512kbps ADSL
You can receive 256kbps ADSL
You are approximately 755 metres from the exchange. Note that this is the straight line distance - the actual cable length will be longer!
BUT
im only getting 5.65 Mb/s (speedtest) and it has been this way for over 10 days (i understand there is a 10 day testing period where sky tests your line to give it a stable connection)...it has not changed at all over the past 10 days.....
what the hell is going on? i would not have signed up with sky if i was only going to get 5mb net......
not if im paying for 20mb
Help please
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Post router stats.
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Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN MER 3192604 23735197 0 0 0 87:15:25
LAN Up 230245 84957 0 37 55 246:45:55
WLAN Up 23583022 18252210 0 5764 2117 246:45:33
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15946 kbps 1098 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 dB 15.1 dB
Noise Margin 7.1 dB 7.6 dB
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Post deleted by RobertoS
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Forgive me for being a bit pedantic here, but I thought I'd just say that A&A (the ISP I am with) is fast stable unlimited internet. There is no transfer cap, and my connection is not 'cut-off' (Zen) or 'throttled' (PlusNet?) if I download too much per month. I am simply charged more if I use my connection more (especially during peak-time).
What I suspect you are probably seeking is fast stable unlimited internet for a fixed monthly price. This A&A are not (though they mostly are for non-heavy users using no more than their base tariff of 2 units per month), and so Sky/Virgin/Be are alternative options, although neither of them may be fast all the time.
I suppose what I'm trying to hint at here is - it's a bit of a trade off. If you want a fast stable unlimited connection, you'll probably need to pay for it, especially if you plan on using it a lot. If you want a mostly fast stable unlimited connection, most of the other less premium providers will easily do the job.
I guess AAISP are extremely fastidious regarding the quality of broadband they provide - it is uncongested, with very little slowdown or packet drops:
http://clueless.aaisp.net.uk/linkreport.cgi
I doubt many other ISPs can provide this level of network performance. This is why, so far, my experience with them has been sublime and quite frankly outshines any other provider I have been with in terms of speed and stability, period.
I guess it is up to you what type of provider you will go with. This post is intended to be nothing more than friendly advice addressing the topic of your initial post.
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Should you need it, this link might be useful:
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/codes-of-p...
In particular, point 32, secion a, point iv
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Have you tried different speedtest.net servers?
Say London, France & The Netherlands?
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Line is running at the estimates, which meets the sales patter.
Issue is actual throughput, and as such the time of day you are running the tests is very important, as is testing to various different locations.
If it is slow at even off peak times, then do things like avoid using wireless, i.e. plug in using a cable, and also check the PC is optimised for these sorts of speeds at www.dslreports.com/tweaks
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Just to show a balanced view of Virgin cable, here is a speedtest showing a comparison of my (up to) 10Mb Virgin line (£26 a month) and a BT ADSL line (my employer pays for this so I don't know the cost).
The download speed may be slightly better, but the upload is worse than the ADSL and streaming 3 episodes of Eastenders in HD through iPlayer will cause throttling to kick in.
On the plus side, it has been pretty reliable.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1618158767.png
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1618157195.png
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In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Line Attenuation 26.0 dB 15.1 dB
Noise Margin 7.1 dB 7.6 dB
You're actually getting 16Mbps so I don't think you have anything to complain about.
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Zadeks