Speed: which ISP is telling the truth?

Hi guys,

I'm making do with a tethered 3 connection and so I'm searching for a good ISP. I can't figure out who is telling me the truth.

I've moved to a new flat and had the BT line activated, hoping FTTC is enabled at the road... it's not. Anyway, now I'm stuck with a BT phone line for 12 month and on top of that, the line seems to be losing quality? I assume this because initially when I moved in, BT's own speed checker on bt.com was forecasting speeds of 5 mbit, then later on 3 mbit and now... 2.5 mbit. Worrying.

So I've been checking broadband speeds with various sites and this is what I get for my line:

BT = 2.5 mbit
Be = 3 mbit
O2 = 3 mbit
Plusnet = 2 mbit
TalkTalk = 6.6 mbit
Sky = 7.0 mbit - 14.3 mbit
Virgin = 6.9 mbit - 12.1 mbit

I'm confused.

Virgin and Sky look good but are those speeds true?

Can I get broadband only from Sky?

Please help as I really need to get broadband installed. The 3 network's erratic speeds of 1 mbit barely hold. It's torture! lol

In reply to a post by Khan:

Hi guys,

I'm making do with a tethered 3 connection and so I'm searching for a good ISP. I can't figure out who is telling me the truth.

I've moved to a new flat and had the BT line activated, hoping FTTC is enabled at the road... it's not. Anyway, now I'm stuck with a BT phone line for 12 month and on top of that, the line seems to be losing quality? I assume this because initially when I moved in, BT's own speed checker on bt.com was forecasting speeds of 5 mbit, then later on 3 mbit and now... 2.5 mbit. Worrying.

So I've been checking broadband speeds with various sites and this is what I get for my line:

BT = 2.5 mbit
Be = 3 mbit
O2 = 3 mbit
Plusnet = 2 mbit
TalkTalk = 6.6 mbit
Sky = 7.0 mbit - 14.3 mbit
Virgin = 6.9 mbit - 12.1 mbit

I'm confused.

Virgin and Sky look good but are those speeds true?

Can I get broadband only from Sky?

Please help as I really need to get broadband installed. The 3 network's erratic speeds of 1 mbit barely hold. It's torture! lol

So, you have an active adsl service with BT or not ? if not the only real way to know what speeds are actually possible on that line are only apparent once the adsl service is active, all the isp's web site figures are only predictions based on the bt data base info, which is inaccurate to say the least, basically it's a guesstimate long long is a piece of string answer, only the lines attenuation figures give a more accurate result of what the line can support , so my advice would be go with an isp /reseller that offers a 1 month contract , that way you are not tied into any lengthy contracts should you fell it not a worthwhile venture , yes you may incur a cease charge but so what,? it's a a lot less than being charged for any remaining unused contract period or being held ransom to the short coming of the chosen isp ,

Copy and past the text from https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html hiding your phone number. This gives a number of speeds usually.

Virgin - avoid like the plague, as that is the Virgin National service by the look of it. NOT their cable services

Sky, Be, O2 and TalkTalk should all be similar speeds as they offer the same technology.

Reality is until the line is enabled you cannot really predict the speed accurately, as the numbers are various estimates

The line will not have lost quality, but the estimated speed when you get a new line will be around the speed available on that phone number wherever it was located before, with the previious subscriber with that number.

It takes 2-3 days usually for that estimate to be replaced by one based on your postcode, and that is probably what has happened.

I suggest two ways of finding what the real speeds in your area are:-

1) Ask some neighbours;

2) Check your postcode on this map, which shows the results of thinkbroadband speed tests. You will need to "Enable" the relevant item in the left-hand menu.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Copy and past the text from https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html hiding your phone number. This gives a number of speeds usually.

For Telephone Number 01753XXXXXX on Exchange SLOUGH MAIN

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 500Kbps and downstream line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

Thank you for your interest.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Virgin - avoid like the plague, as that is the Virgin National service by the look of it. NOT their cable services

Yep, their website says there is no cable broadband on my road, but about 50 yards down the road on another, my brother has cable broadband.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sky, Be, O2 and TalkTalk should all be similar speeds as they offer the same technology.

Sky and TalkTalk suggest roughly 6-7 mbit but Be and O2 about 3 mbit. I don't know what to do.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Reality is until the line is enabled you cannot really predict the speed accurately, as the numbers are various estimates

Hmm I may pick Sky but am I able to join Sky without taking their TV and calls options? Or maybe I should do what Anonymous suggested: join a reseller ISP's 1-month contract deal to test speeds.

In reply to a post by Khan:

Hmm I may pick Sky but am I able to join Sky without taking their TV and calls options? Or maybe I should do what Anonymous suggested: join a reseller ISP's 1-month contract deal to test speeds.

You don't have to take Sky TV, but you do have to take both Sky Line Rental and Sky Talk.

As you are in a 12-month contract for the line rental with BT you are in shtuck for that one!

What speeds does the map show? Ignore any over 25Mbps as those will be cable or FTTC.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The line will not have lost quality, but the estimated speed when you get a new line will be around the speed available on that phone number wherever it was located before, with the previious subscriber with that number.

It takes 2-3 days usually for that estimate to be replaced by one based on your postcode, and that is probably what has happened.

Ah that explains it, I see what you mean. I was worrying my line might be bad.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I suggest two ways of finding what the real speeds in your area are:-

1) Ask some neighbours;

2) Check your postcode on this map, which shows the results of thinkbroadband speed tests. You will need to "Enable" the relevant item in the left-hand menu.

Good idea. I'll see if I can ask the neighbours.

I checked the map and there was a few Virgin cable speedtests showing up near my area but nothing for my road.

In reply to a post by Khan:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Copy and past the text from https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html hiding your phone number. This gives a number of speeds usually.

For Telephone Number 01753XXXXXX on Exchange SLOUGH MAIN

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 500Kbps and downstream line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 1Mbps and 4Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

Thank you for your interest.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Virgin - avoid like the plague, as that is the Virgin National service by the look of it. NOT their cable services

Yep, their website says there is no cable broadband on my road, but about 50 yards down the road on another, my brother has cable broadband.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sky, Be, O2 and TalkTalk should all be similar speeds as they offer the same technology.

Sky and TalkTalk suggest roughly 6-7 mbit but Be and O2 about 3 mbit. I don't know what to do.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Reality is until the line is enabled you cannot really predict the speed accurately, as the numbers are various estimates

Hmm I may pick Sky but am I able to join Sky without taking their TV and calls options? Or maybe I should do what Anonymous suggested: join a reseller ISP's 1-month contract deal to test speeds.

H i it's me again, sky and tt talk talk are now both fully llu , in short they take over both phone (line rent & calls) & adsl , and can be both costly and a right pain in the arras to get away from should you become a unhappy camper later on,and want to switch isp and the MAC code process don't apply to them so basically it is unregulated , i ve given my views , it's your choice i'm afraid , but weigh up the options 12/18 mths contract vs 1 mths contract maybe + a cease charge if things didn't work out , the BT not so accurate checker reports that on asdl2+ my line will support speeds between 8-12.5 mbps and an upstream speed of 1mbps, i currently have a downstream sync of 17mbps and over 1 mbit upstream , so their estimates are very conservative usually but , that also can work adversely too

Pretty much limited to an individual reseller such as ADSL24 or O2/BE on (ADSL2+) LLU. Good news is you will get good customer support from those three.
Keep a look out for when BT line contract expires, its a rolling contract thats how they hang on to punters.

I wouldnt pay much attention to the maps, i must have submitted 20 to 30 tests over the years plus the last 9 months at decent speeds. None show above 0.5meg on that mapping i aint been that low for 3 years since ADSL.
This site test 15meg, speedtest 37.44meg within a few secs of each other, somethings wrong.

In reply to a post by Khan:

Can I get broadband only from Sky?

From what I can tell, Sky will do broadband without taking their TV service; and there's a pretty good deal on too

But as you're tied into a 12 month line rental with BT, Sky may not be an option for you, as I believe that you need to take their line rental (rather than BT's).

Hello again,

Line condition seems to have improved, showing a theoretical increase of up to 1.5mbps compared with the old test up above.

For Telephone Number 01753XXXXXX on Exchange SLOUGH MAIN

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 4.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 3Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 5.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 500Kbps and downstream line speed of 3Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 5.5Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

Thank you for your interest.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

Anyway. I had a chat with a Sky sales rep today. They put my order through for broadband-only once I explained my line was with BT in a 12-month contract. They asked me about TV, I explained that I just moved in so I have no TV yet but will do soon, so they will wait for my knod on when to install it but they have my Sky+HD order on hold in the meantime. So fingers crossed I will have Sky ADSL2+ LLU by the end of this month.

In reply to a post by Khan:

Line condition seems to have improved

Your line will not have changed. These are only unreliable estimates. You'll never know what your line is truly capable of until you have actually been connected, as you have been told here many times.

Anyway. I had a chat with a Sky sales rep today. They put my order through for broadband-only once I explained my line was with BT in a 12-month contract.

Which Sky product has been ordered?

If it is Sky Connect that is not the reasonably good LLU service, it is the very poor non-LLU product.
You may have been bamboozled, so find out which product it is of:-

Sky Connect;
Everyday Lite;
Sky Unlimited.

The Sky rep did not mention anything about 'Sky Connect' but assured me it will be ADSL2+ and he double checked with his collegue. I got email today that the router is on its way.

I hope he didn't sell me 'Sky Connect'. Worried a bit now.

What does it say on your order? or here? https://my.sky.com/mysky/myaccount/my-packages/index...

I try to login but I don't have password. lol

Their email said, "We'll be in touch again soon, but you can always track your order at www.sky.com/mysky - all you need is your username XXXXX-XXXXXXX and the password you'll be asked to create when you log on for the first time."

I don't get any prompt requesting me to setup a password.

I think I better ring them.

Can't you use the link there to reset your password?

It wont be LLU if your line rental remains with BT.

Sky BB deals so it looks like it will be Sky Connect, maybe time to check your get out clause in the Ts and Cs.

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

It wont be LLU if your line rental remains with BT.

Sky BB deals so it looks like it will be Sky Connect, maybe time to check your get out clause in the Ts and Cs.

Not necessarily. It's possible a special deal has been agreed, as it was only last April they introduced MPF-only on LLU.

That's why he needs to check every way possible.

Following on - even if it is a deal, I'd be sure it is only till the (12 month?) BT contract is up.

Hi, the broadband pack is 'Sky Unlimited' and they said it is up to 20mbps which suggests it's ADSL2+... I think.

Yes, that's LLU not Sky Connect

You must have a good negotiating technique . That's one of the best LLUs as well, so enjoy.

As I just said to Apprentice, you may find they want you to take Sky Line Rental and Talk as well, after the 12 months, but then of course you have the option to stay or leave.

Or they may just leave you as SMPF, phone still with BT, like they do with the customers who joined before April 2011.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 21-Jan-12 13:47:59)

I don't know if it can be done or not but is it possible Sky will take over the line and leave the OP to sort out the issue with BT regarding breaking the 12 month contract with them?

Thanks, it took some time negotiating the TV deal at £25 month, instead of TV+Line+Calls, and they gave me broadband for £12.50 a month.

Hi again,

I'm back to square one. lol

Sky rep rang me back to tell me BT rejected my order so they can't complete my order. I don't know what exactly happened but I'm guessing BT don't allow Sky Unlimited deal on a BT line?

Ended up cancelling Sky+HD order too.

Is it possible to terminate contract 11 months early with BT and if so, how expensive will it be?

I miss the good old days like back in 2005 when it was a doddle to switch to UK Online LLU (best ISP ever) and still keep line with BT.

Why not keep the BT phone and broadband and just get Sky TV ?

In reply to a post by Khan:

Is it possible to terminate contract 11 months early with BT and if so, how expensive will it be?

Yes: per month:

Hold to term charges
Telephone Service
Line Rental Only Unlimited Weekend Plan Unlimited Evening & Weekend Plan Unlimited Anytime Plan
£2.50 ................. £2.50 ........................... £3.00 .............................................. £5.50

In reply to a post by Khan:

Sky rep rang me back to tell me BT rejected my order so they can't complete my order. I don't know what exactly happened but I'm guessing BT don't allow Sky Unlimited deal on a BT line?

That doesn't sound right. I think they probably ordered a full phone and broadband migration, (MPF), despite what you were told, and BT rejected that because of your very recent contract.

I miss the good old days like back in 2005 when it was a doddle to switch to UK Online LLU (best ISP ever) and still keep line with BT.

It's only Sky, who bought them, and TalkTalk that are the pain. All other LLU is fine.

You have a number of options on that exchange, though I expect more expensive than Sky. The recommendation depends very much on what you intend to use the broadband for.

If you are going to download a lot of films etc., we may suggest one. Live TV streaming some other one. 22/7 gaming even another. Some clues please, especially the overall download amount, and whether you upload much (possibly using P2P). Can any heavy downloading be overnight?

Which ISP did you use in your previous place, and how was it?

I don't have broadband yet, only a phone line from BT. I don't have broadband, nor a TV set or a TV deal. lol

I foolishly believed samknows.com's postcode check that FTTC was on my road and that I could get 29mbps but it was not the case once the BT line was activated. Line check returns a negative for FTTC.

So here I am, surviving on Three mobile's One plan sim-only deal for internet (unstable 1mbps) until I have broadband installed. And I was rather hoping Sky Unlimited LLU was the answer till FTTC is setup on my road.

I guess I'm still searching.

I only pay basic line rental - something like £14 a month.

So if I was to terminate contract today, would BT charge me £2.50 x 11 months and that's it?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You have a number of options on that exchange, though I expect more expensive than Sky. The recommendation depends very much on what you intend to use the broadband for.

If you are going to download a lot of films etc., we may suggest one. Live TV streaming some other one. 22/7 gaming even another. Some clues please, especially the overall download amount, and whether you upload much (possibly using P2P). Can any heavy downloading be overnight?

I mostly watch streams, e.g. iplayer, tvcatchup, youtube, and play online games like Heroes of Newerth, 2 mmorpg games and soon battlefield 3 once I build my new pc. There'll be some days when I play HoN for 6 hours easily so pings do matter.

Which ISP did you use in your previous place, and how was it?

XILO's Pro 16 (£17.99/mo) which was a TalkTalk LLU connection running at 5mbps easily and it was good, but XILO now resell Be connections. Their speedchecker says 3mbps which is a bit disheartening. Not sure if I should take a gamble because Bethere site reports 2.5-3mbps too but it says anywhere between 1-4mbps.

The estimators are just that so will vary greatly based on how keen the provider is for your business

Line speed estimates have already been covered. Basically you will get the same speed from every supplier, unless they are on that slows it down for extra stability. TalkTalk themselves for instance, and Sky slightly, though the TalkTalk one can be speeded up to the norm for other ISPs.

I think you will find Xilo still resell TalkTalk Wholesale and have added Be rather than replace TT. Ask them . Pro 16 that you had before is still there, but doesn't show the £17.99 price.

If they don't do a monthly contract on it then vivaciti do, without needing the line to be LLU as well, but to make it unlimited, which I think you would need, gets very expensive.

Vivaciti also have an unlimited package based on C & W LLU.

Unfortunately I don't have ping data for any of these.

I don't know what the Xilo contract is on resold Be, but the top two on this vivaciti page are Be, with free connection etc. at the moment. The Lite should do for you, as I think the only difference between the two is the downstream speed, and your line won't get near the limit of Lite.

In reply to a post by Khan:

XILO's Pro 16 (£17.99/mo) which was a TalkTalk LLU

Just to correct you on that... Pro 16 was never TTB - it was and still is Cable and Wireless (C&W).

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Just to correct you on that... Pro 16 was never TTB - it was and still is Cable and Wireless (C&W).

Matt

Ah apologies, my bad there.

While I have your attention, I would like to go back on Pro 16 (C&W). Can we arrange something, my main man?

When I do availability check it only brings up Be products under 'Pro', whereas it used to be C&W before.

If the option does not come up on the checker, it'll mean that the exchange is full and has no capacity for new orders

Matt

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

it was only last April they introduced MPF-only on LLU.

Actually, it was September last year.

Yep . Doddering old git was thinking of this.

The use of full LLU become the norm in september, but it did exist prior to that date, just people had a choice.

Hello mate, I went with good old Xilo again, but this time I picked their 'Be Pro 16' deal. Connection goes live this Friday. (fingers crossed)

In the meantime, got myself a brand new Billion 7800N and a BT faceplate. Fitted and installed it all. The line conditions seem to backup what Sky, Virgin and TalkTalk line checkers were suggesting...

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode G.DMT
Upstream 288
Downstream 576
SNR Margin(Upstream) 29.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 30.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 27.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 48.0

By the way, the dark green (very dark) cabinet outside is roughly 20m from my house but it doesn't show FTTC yet. Can I found out if or when they will install FTTC?

Edited by Khan (Wed 01-Feb-12 00:02:43)

Looks to me like around 5-6Mbps to be expected.

Re FTTC, what is the number on the cabinet, and what is your postcode?

I think it says 308 but I will have to check again. Post code is SL2 5BT. The cabinet is on School Lane but I live on Charlotte Avenue and it's quite close to me.

That sounds more like a VM one to me. Have a browse of the pictures on this page.

That post code is apparently served by cabinet 114 and is not in any current rollout plans .

I think you are right, it must be a VM cabinet. I was really hoping for FTTC. *sob sob*

Where can I check online to see what the status is on cabinet 114, like a month from now?

Thanks in advance man.

You won't be able to check cab 114 until some later version of the spreadsheet leaks. I don't know how often they are issued, but think there was possibly more than one between April and December, the two we know about.

ISPs should have the latest information, but the support staff on most won't have a clue what you are on about.

Is the 308 preceded by a longer number? If so, that is the VM Node number it is fed from.

I'm connected.

Xilo have switched on the 'Be Pro 16' deal and without any tweaking, Billion 7800N is showing following stats:

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2
Upstream 1170
Downstream 6545
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.7
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.3
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 27.9
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 43.0

Pings are averaging 16-17ms to first hop.

Very happy so far because BT, Be and O2 had me worried/confused with their line checkers.

All hail Xilo!