ISP with decent Broadband quality

Hi TBB Forum members,

I am relatively new here so I apologise if this is a question that is frequently asked, however, my forum search was not particularly fruitful and I remain somewhat confused on the issues I would like to ask about. Thank you for your help in advance, it is much appreciated.

Here is my TBB quality monitor.

I am currently using Virgin Media (Up to 30 mbps) and am getting excellent average speeds on speedtests. However, I am having issues on anything that requires a constant internet connection, as I have intermittent drops in connection speed to zero. These are there at all times, but worse during peak times, when they increase in frequency from about once every 2 minutes to several times a minute, and last longer (from under a second to several seconds at a trot). Hence, VoIP with Skype, BBC iPlayer and online games all are somewhat frustrating experiences.

I have had this issue with VM at every household I have been in (3 over the last 4.5 years, all in Cambridge) and after going through a series of calls with them, they are sure there is nothing to be done on their end. I would like to switch providers therefore. Since no one in my household is a heavy user of bandwidth, nor does anyone use P2P networks I am not particularly bothered about top speeds, but am looking for consistent speeds in VoIP, games and streaming, ideally also at Peak times although I understand this is a bigger ask.

My questions are:

Is it likely that my issues are due to VMs particular architecture? I understand that their fibre architecture is "good for downloads, poor for quality". Is that true?

If so, will another provider improve my situation? Should I get an ADSL connection (which, as I understand, do not come faster than about 16 mbps) or would I also see improvements in quality if I went with one of the FTTC providers such as BT infinity or talktalk/plus.net alternatives?

And finally, in your opinion and experience, which ISP would you suggest for my criteria (good off-peak and peak-time broadband quality for streaming, VoIP and games).

Thanks!

Whatever is causing the issue with your VM connection, moving to another provider will fix things as they'll not be running on Virgins cable network.

I would suggest Plusnet. Their traffic management policies prioritise the types of data you are interested in and are well priced.

If the issue was with the VM connection then there would be packet loss when you say the connection is dropping to zero.

There are not noticeable moments of packet loss so I'd expect the issue is somewhere else. It could be your internal network or it could be that the peering used for the TBB BQM is different to the sites that you have issues with so doesn't show up the issue.

Either way if you have had this issue at multiple addresses then the simply answer is to leave VM for an ADSL or FTTC/Fibre provider.

I'd strongly recommend an FTTC/Fibre service as you'll be used to 30Mbps!

Has your router been replaced over the years? If still using the same one it could be a simple problem on the router.

Hi mjws2 and all.
I`m new here but I have been in I.T for many years.

I have had the same problem with VM fiber/coaxial over the last 3 years On and off.
Over the last 6 months my virgin line has been unusable most of the time due to over-utilization of there network. Due to how the Docsis3 system works the first thing to go wrong is latency when the system is stressed and then the speed drops off after that. I was getting 3 meg on a 60meg line. My friend on the same ubr gets 3meg on a 120meg connection
This is a BQM reading on a no usage day.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/d531ca45c14...

After contacting the Ceo department VM has agreed to release the contract due to the over-utilization issue.
I was somewhat upset to end my contract as this has been a love affair of over 15 years with the cable network. Back in 2005, Whilst ADSL had problems providing users with 1/2Meg connection I was getting speeds of 20Meg and low pings without ever having a problem.

So in a some what reluctant move I ordered BT infinity 2 FTTC, I know its the same line and system as used by its competitors but BT seem to have best customer service from what I could see so a extra few quid a month did not bother me.
To be honest I was expecting the same old c**p that adsl offered back in 2005 and the line to be next to useless, but, I`m lost for words!.
I`m getting 74/19 on the 80/20 service at 250M from the fiber cab and the ping is untrue as shown below, Due to me having the home hub5 I have to ping from my CCTV server so there are some packet loss issues as the unit is set to update and restart during the night but as you can see the line is flawless.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/6350b7ef94d...

I know the ping only shows the A.M hours but compare it to the VM chart, The part at the end is when I turned off the Home hub to fit the Tandy cable that just arrived so I got booted to another I.P, The only gripe I have to be honest. My VM connection would hold the same I.P forever, ever years sometimes. But the FTTC connection seems to give me a new I.P on every reboot, Not the end of the world though.

So if you can get FFTC or even FTTP and your speed predictions come back good it may be worth a go.

Plusnet is well priced, but don't rely on swapping ISPs to fix your problem.. I'm with Plusnet and my TBB Quality Monitor is here. As you can see, not much better than what you have on Virgin.

In reply to a post by 5km:

If the issue was with the VM connection then there would be packet loss when you say the connection is dropping to zero.

There are not noticeable moments of packet loss so I'd expect the issue is somewhere else. It could be your internal network or it could be that the peering used for the TBB BQM is different to the sites that you have issues with so doesn't show up the issue.

Either way if you have had this issue at multiple addresses then the simply answer is to leave VM for an ADSL or FTTC/Fibre provider.

I'd strongly recommend an FTTC/Fibre service as you'll be used to 30Mbps!

I would normal agree but the Docsis3 system seems to que and delay the packets rather than drop them. The delayed packets make gaming impossible and make browsing sluggish.

That isn't a normal plusnet connection.

ADSL or VDSL?
How often is the connection left idle?

Another option might be that you ask VM to put you on a Docsis 2 service, You might only get 10 meg but it will be the fastest 10 meg you have ever seen due to the Docsis 2 system being so quiet and only used for Tivo and the odd modems now.
In 2011 I dropped to Docsis 2 to escape the hell of the Docsis 3 crisis and it was bliss, ever though it was only 10meg. But due to a house move in 2012 and the massive amounts of internet data hungry devices I now own, I had to use Docsis 3 as VM was not happy with 400gig a month usage on Docsis 2 as it would lag out Tivo users, and so, I was returned to Docsis 3 hell.

To ask about this email a complaint to [email protected] and they will normal call you back the following day. Be sure to add your VM account number and land line/mobile number. They are a very friendly bunch and have always helped me in the past.

Its a lot less extreme than fitting a new line and way better if you can only get ADSL.

Post deleted by noppix1

Hi Noppix1!

Thank you for that valuable nugget of info, a very interesting suggestion, and one that I will definitely bear in mind as an option, especially if FTTC is not an option or if putting in the ADSL line would prove undue hassle. I do however worry slightly that 10 mbps is going to be a little low on bandwidth for the three (albeit light) users in this household...

Yes, the VM Superhub router/modem combination has been replaced with every move. Sadly there was no improvement.

Hey Noppix1,

Thank you for sharing your experience, and for your input on delayed v dropped packets - I had wondered why I wasn't seeing any packet loss, as to my somewhat simplistic non-IT mind the symptoms of packet loss always sounded like the issues I was having. I would love for a similar result following ISP change, but need to check out availability of FTTC services, otherwise I may consider trying a move to Docsis 2 as suggested by yourself further down the thread.

Having a consistent IP address does not really concern me too much, so BT may well be an option. Thanks for this!

In reply to a post by mjws2:

Hi Noppix1!

Thank you for that valuable nugget of info, a very interesting suggestion, and one that I will definitely bear in mind as an option, especially if FTTC is not an option or if putting in the ADSL line would prove undue hassle. I do however worry slightly that 10 mbps is going to be a little low on bandwidth for the three (albeit light) users in this household...

To be honest 10Mbit is a lot and unless you have a household of internet nutter like I do you will be fine.
An average netflix stream is quoted as being 2.8gig per hour for HD, That amounts to 0.77 meg per second.
Unless you are going to be download a free issue of Linux every day it would be more than enough data for any light user, and, on top of that the ping would be so low that browsing would be lighting fast.
Worth a try and a much better situation than an ADSL line.
Hope it all works out for you

It is a shame it has come to this for VM as like I say for years they were on top and never failed to impress me. Just when you thought you had the fastest connection in the country they would double the speed for free. But now it seems that they have reached the end of the road by way of being amazing as this (wv10) area has had speed issues now for over 3 Years. They have also announced another speed increase (double)for this area so my guess would be that the problem will also double when that happens.
I never did like the traffic management much though, I must add that, and the up speed has always been rubbish.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

That isn't a normal plusnet connection.

ADSL or VDSL?
How often is the connection left idle?

Unfortunately,it is normal to me... it has been like that since Plusnet set me up on a static IP to keep an eye on it (beginning of November last year) and probably for a while before that since it has been problematic for a while now.
It is on ADSL.
What do you mean by idle? It is pretty much always on and in use for browsing at least.

What's the sync speed?

You will see high latency and packet loss if you saturate the connection.

The other PN graphs look nothing like yours does. http://community.plus.net/ping-graphs/

5280 Kbps Data Rate. The connection is not being saturated.
The other PN graphs for the package and Exchange technology are exactly like mine.. thanks for bringing my attention to that. http://community.plus.net/ping-graphs/#unlimited20CN

Though I appreciate your help.. we are wandering off topic. I just wanted to make sure the OP didn't assume that a move of ISP will necessarily end up with a better connection, which since most of them will tie you into a year or more long contract, is something to make bear in mind.

I'm afraid a lot of webpages will saturate a 5Mb connection these days.

One graph is a little similar, but we don't know how much the individual is utilising his connection, etc.

You should check the VP capacity. http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

I apologise for the act of thread necromancy, but I thought this may be useful for somebody in the same situation. Alas, here is my Ping Monitor following my move to Plusnet on a 16 mbps ADSL connection. While the ping monitor does not actually look that much better, my problems of intermittent connection loss have been resolved - thus I am very happy with my move. Peak download speeds are slightly lower, but then I don't use P2P and thus rarely see download speeds higher than about 4mbps anyway since these appear to be capped serverside. Upload speeds are quite slow which makes videochat suboptimal, but continuous lower quality is preferable in my opinion to wildly fluctuating speeds.

tl; dnr: I am happy - thanks all for the advice!

I went the "other" way. Fed up of giving my hard earned to BT, Zen and Vodafone I took a 3 mobile contract. My phone is now my modem and my line speeds are better than my hard line speeds (tested using TBB's tester). Watched top gear on the phone this a.m. in Bedford and am now typing this on my laptop tethered to my phone at home. No modems, no wires, no keeping a fixed line phone for testing, no "have your neighbours bought new Xmas lights" questions, no drop outs....blissful.

oh dear......3 have just discontinued unlimited mobile tethering....dont give up your landline yet...
Ian

In reply to a post by nomadros1:

I went the "other" way. Fed up of giving my hard earned to BT, Zen and Vodafone I took a 3 mobile contract. My phone is now my modem and my line speeds are better than my hard line speeds (tested using TBB's tester). Watched top gear on the phone this a.m. in Bedford and am now typing this on my laptop tethered to my phone at home. No modems, no wires, no keeping a fixed line phone for testing, no "have your neighbours bought new Xmas lights" questions, no drop outs....blissful.

Tethering your phone is likely to get slow as soon as TrafficSense notices. Any new customers have a 2Gigabyte tethering limit (unlimited on the phone itself). If you want mobile broadband, Three (and EE's) mobile broadband products are better for speed - but not unlimited usage.

No radio based system can beat a wired system for high levels of usage.

In reply to a post by noppix1:

I`m new here but I have been in I.T for many years.

In reply to a post by noppix1:

To be honest 10Mbit is a lot and unless you have a household of internet nutter like I do you will be fine.
An average netflix stream is quoted as being 2.8gig per hour for HD, That amounts to 0.77 meg per second.

Hmmmm

In reply to a post by mjws2:

However, I am having issues on anything that requires a constant internet connection, as I have intermittent drops in connection speed to zero. These are there at all times, but worse during peak times, when they increase in frequency from about once every 2 minutes to several times a minute, and last longer (from under a second to several seconds at a trot).

That's quite a specific and unusual issue. How did you ascertain this/got any plots?

Maybe an explanation of your thoughts rather than posting a pointless reply!

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Mar-14 00:20:01)

Probably over how you turn 2.7GB into 0.77 Mbps, you are a long way out with the calculation

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/factsheet/q4-20...

I can see your point. but the post did not state it was Mbit I put meg meaning MByte. I suppose I left it open to speculation. My mistake.

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Mar-14 11:32:05)

The general rule is if you say Meg you mean Mega bits per second

To be honest Andrew I could not really agree, Back in the day when you purchased a 250 Meg hard drive or 512 Meg of memory what was you expecting to get?.

Edit:silly spelling mistake

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Mar-14 12:07:54)

Well Meg is generally used to mean Mega bits per second when talking about Internet transfer rates.

The definition when talking about memory or other storage modules is different.

I do see your point Andrew and i`m not going to bang on about it all day, like I said, my mistake.

In reply to a post by noppix1:

the post did not state it was Mbit I put meg meaning MByte.

So you maintain that 10Mbps is more than enough for 3 users and your point was that if more than 1 person wants to stream Netflix HD they are a household of internet nutters?