Please point a FTTC first-timer in the right direction

Hi folks,

After many years of sub 2 Meg ADSL on a Market 1 exchange, fibre has finally arrived in our area.

I've been reading through various threads and Fibre guides/best buys, but am a bit confused where start with FTTC.

Currently with Zen for ADSL and the phone is paid annually (Post Office) as we never use it for calls.

Not bothered about TV/Sport/Call packages/Free routers. Not that bothered about a static IP.

Main consideration is probably reliability, and would rather avoid ISP content filtering, though that's not really an issue as I'm not a big 'Linux distro' downloader.

Should I be looking at staying with Zen? Is there any advantage in terms of transfer from ADSL or initial connection?

I've posted the predicted speeds at the bottom. Is it worth going for the 80/20 option? The line will be used for some video streaming (iPlayer, Now TV), and sometimes uploading short videos I shoot to my work's servers.

If I was looking to save a bit of money is there an issue with PlusNet at the minute?

Any pointers will be really appreciated.

Down High Low Up High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 72 / 20 20 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 61.9 / 20 12.2 -- Available

If the Zen service is reasonable then maybe stay with then

£27/m for Unlimited up to 38 Mbps service plus voice at £16.99 is more than PlusNet, but then then if its a Market 1 exchange PlusNet pricing is likely to be the more expensive outside low cost areas of £22.49 per month (plus voice £15.95)

Zen will give you the static IP, reverse DNS which may be useful for the work e.g. work firewalling uploads

The estimates suggest the cabinet is at the foot of your drive almost, so if you went for the cheaper up to 38 Mbps product you should nail the maximum speeds on it, and probably even the same on the more expensive.

A well running 20 Mbps FTTC line is more than good enough for several HD video streams, I know that is all I have and have run multiple devices at the same time for 30 minutes to test, sound muted or I would have gone mad.

If you are used to sub-2mbps, then 40mbps will be a revelation. You can always upgrade later if you feel the need and most ISPs will make that easy (downgrading is often not so simple). As for Plusnet, they seem OK on my parent's line, but that's only ADSL and they are not heavy users.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Zen will give you the static IP, reverse DNS which may be useful for the work e.g. work firewalling uploads

Not only that, an existing Zen ADSL customer upgrading to Zen FTTC keeps the IP address(es) they already have.

Plusnet is having some strange problems at the moment affecting quite a few. But even some of those affected, such as myself, don't really notice it.

However, as has been said, Plusnet will cost quite a bit more than the headline prices - see this post. Also it's an 18-month minimum term.

I agree with others that your best bet may well be staying with Zen, on a 12-month minimum term.

You will almost certainly need a new router, or perhaps a VDSL2 router, as your existing one is highly unlikely to be suitable. If you tell us what it is, and if it has one of the Ethernet ports marked as WAN or a different colour from the rest, it probably is.

A big thank you for all your replies.

I didn't realise I would be able to switch between 40/10 and 80/20 during a contract, so I'll probably start down that route.

Zen seems like the obvious choice in terms of a smooth transition - however it costs around 50% more and I'm not sure I can justify it.

For 18 months of fibre and phone (with caller display):

Sky - £535.20
Plusnet - £574.80 (with outsiders' tax)
BT- £659.82
Zen - £838.02

The fibre data extension kit is often mentioned...

I currently have a Billion 8800NL running off a socket on a relatively short extension routed externally. Looking through the forums (and at photos), am I right in thinking that the data kit can only be routed internally?

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Apr-15 14:39:47)

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

The fibre data extension kit is often mentioned...

I currently have a Billion 8800NL running off a socket on a relatively short extension routed externally. Looking through the forums (and at photos), am I right in thinking that the data kit can only be routed internally?

Can't you just use that?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

The fibre data extension kit is often mentioned...

I currently have a Billion 8800NL running off a socket on a relatively short extension routed externally. Looking through the forums (and at photos), am I right in thinking that the data kit can only be routed internally?

Can't you just use that?

I got the impression that the router/modem would need to be connected directly to the master socket?

Ideal situation, but so long as you have optimised the wiring you have as much as possible, i.e. no ring wire then you are close enough to still get full speed most likely

Zen fibre over 12 months £324 plus £204 line rental

So which product were you looking at?

Ok - thank you!

And maybe a dumb question, presumably a filter is still required on the extension? The current extension is hardwired (by BT) out the back of the master.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Zen fibre over 12 months £324 plus £204 line rental

So which product were you looking at?

It was the same one I think (Unlimited Fibre 1 @ £27), but I had calculated it over 18 months for a fair comparison, and added the activation and phone (£16.99 + 90p caller display) to match the others.

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

It was the same one I think (Unlimited Fibre 1 @ £27), but I had calculated it over 18 months for a fair comparison, and added the activation and phone (£16.99 + 90p caller display) to match the others.

Indeed, this works out at £838.02 over 18 months - that's £30 activation, plus monthly charges of:

• £27.00 - Unlimited Fibre 1
• £16.99 - line rental
• £0.90 - Caller Display

It might help if you break down the other calculations you have made in a similar way to see if anyone can spot any errors. Simply quoting an overall 18 month figure makes it difficult to check.

That depends on a few things. You only need a filter for telephones and the like. The modem doesn't work on a filtered connection. It should be possible to designate the current extension socket as the master and have a new master socket fitted there, assuming the current extension cable has 2 pairs.

When you hard wired out of the back of the master it should be wired from the removeable faceplate, rather than on the hardwired A/B terminals of the incoming line i.e. like at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/faq/faceplates/...

If there is a wire on PIN 3 then you can improve your noise performance by removing it, i.e. lifting it out like in http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/faq/faceplates/... this is known as removing the ring wire.

In reply to a post by David_W:

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

It was the same one I think (Unlimited Fibre 1 @ £27), but I had calculated it over 18 months for a fair comparison, and added the activation and phone (£16.99 + 90p caller display) to match the others.

Indeed, this works out at £838.02 over 18 months - that's £30 activation, plus monthly charges of:

• £27.00 - Unlimited Fibre 1
• £16.99 - line rental
• £0.90 - Caller Display

It might help if you break down the other calculations you have made in a similar way to see if anyone can spot any errors. Simply quoting an overall 18 month figure makes it difficult to check.

No problem - I had under estimated the costs for Sky! In case it helps anyone in the same boat, these are my sums for each ISP over 18 months:

Sky Unlimited (inc. phone):
£26.40 for 6 months
£36.40 for 12 months
£6.95 - Router postage
Total - £602.15

Plusnet Unlimited
£0.00 for 6 months
£22.49 for 12 months
£15.95 - Line rental
99p - Caller display
Total - £574.80

BT Infinity 1
£18.00 for 12 months
£23.00 for 6 months
£16.99 - Line rental
£30.00 - activation
£6.95 - Router postage
Total - £702.71

EE
£9.95 for 6 months
£19.95 for 12 months
£15.75 - Line rental
£6.00 - Router postage
Total - £588.60

Zen Unlimited Fibre 1
£27.00 per month
£16.99 - Line rental
£0.90 - Caller display
£30.00 - Activation
Total - £838.02

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Apr-15 21:20:32)

@BatBoy - thanks, I wasn't sure how the filtering worked, and that now makes sense.

@MrSaffron - I just checked and the extension is wired to the removeable faceplate. BT replaced/wired the socket a couple of years ago, and it only has pins 2, 3 & 5. Pin 3 is wired up so might try taking it out.

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

In reply to a post by David_W:

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

It was the same one I think (Unlimited Fibre 1 @ £27), but I had calculated it over 18 months for a fair comparison, and added the activation and phone (£16.99 + 90p caller display) to match the others.

Indeed, this works out at £838.02 over 18 months - that's £30 activation, plus monthly charges of:

• £27.00 - Unlimited Fibre 1
• £16.99 - line rental
• £0.90 - Caller Display

It might help if you break down the other calculations you have made in a similar way to see if anyone can spot any errors. Simply quoting an overall 18 month figure makes it difficult to check.

No problem - I had under estimated the costs for Sky! In case it helps anyone in the same boat, these are my sums:

Sky Unlimited (inc. phone):
£26.40 for 6 months
£36.40 for 12 months
£6.95 - Router postage
Total - £602.15

Plusnet Unlimited
£0.00 for 6 months
£22.49 for 12 months
£15.95 - Line rental
99p - Caller display
Total - £574.80

BT Infinity 1
£18.00 for 18 months
£16.99 - Line rental
£30.00 - activation
£6.95 - Router postage
Total - £666.77

EE
£9.95 for 6 months
£19.95 for 12 months
£15.75 - Line rental
£6.00 - Router postage
Total - £588.60

I have teleworkers into the office on all those ISPs and give remote support and upgrade help when switching from ADSL to FTTC. There are many reasons for the end user to stick with their existing ISP when upgrading to FTTC and I respect their choice but I would prefer them to upgrade them to the business option if available or feasible as it is less stress dealing with their help desk when the time comes.

In your yearly comparison of costs between SKY/PlusNet/BT/EE you rather skew the figures by showing the prices for year one only; you really need to think about the cost for subsequent years and the contractual tie in as well. It is also likely that you will opt for a call package and at least Caller Display, what are the respective costs for those services? As you are currently a ZEN user, displaying their pricing seems a useful exercise to do. You are most likely to go for a retail package but you may wish to enquire from each about their business packages.

Forget any idea about upgrading while in contract since activation fees may be related to the package chosen and also the upgrade will just start of another contract period.

IMHO you would be better served by staying with ZEN and less likely to experience a loss of service of any noticeable duration in the upgrade process.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

I have teleworkers into the office on all those ISPs and give remote support and upgrade help when switching from ADSL to FTTC. There are many reasons for the end user to stick with their existing ISP when upgrading to FTTC and I respect their choice but I would prefer them to upgrade them to the business option if available or feasible as it is less stress dealing with their help desk when the time comes.

In your yearly comparison of costs between SKY/PlusNet/BT/EE you rather skew the figures by showing the prices for year one only; you really need to think about the cost for subsequent years and the contractual tie in as well. It is also likely that you will opt for a call package and at least Caller Display, what are the respective costs for those services? As you are currently a ZEN user, displaying their pricing seems a useful exercise to do. You are most likely to go for a retail package but you may wish to enquire from each about their business packages.

Forget any idea about upgrading while in contract since activation fees may be related to the package chosen and also the upgrade will just start of another contract period.

IMHO you would be better served by staying with ZEN and less likely to experience a loss of service of any noticeable duration in the upgrade process.

Thanks for the heads up. When I started my search TalkTalk's business option seemed a positive option. However, they haven't yet updated their databases to include our exchange.

I've added the breakdown of Zen's offering to help anyone comparing. The prices are all over 18 months however, it's just that some have dual pricing to draw in customers.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In your yearly comparison of costs between SKY/PlusNet/BT/EE you rather skew the figures by showing the prices for year one only; you really need to think about the cost for subsequent years and the contractual tie in as well.

The original poster's focus on costs for the first 18 months skews the comparison heavily towards those ISPs offering introductory offers. It would seem worth setting down the monthly full-price cost alongside those introductory offers.

Zen don't offer introductory pricing, so they will never come out well in a 'first 18 months' comparison. However, I believe their prices are pretty competitive once startup costs and discounts are a distant memory.


Zen's business pricing for FTTC and phone bundles is identical to residential pricing, with two exceptions.

Line rental is higher on the business products to reflect the business nature of the line: 48 hour estimated time to repair on a business line, 96 hour estimated time to repair on a residential line. Residential line rental in an FTTC bundle is £16.99 including VAT. Business line rental in an FTTC bundle is £20.40 including VAT.

The 5000 minute call bundle is £6.51 including VAT on a residential line and £7.80 including VAT on a business line. I expect that Zen assume business customers are likely to make greater use of a call bundle and adjust their prices accordingly.


When comparing prices, be aware that prices on the residential part of Zen's web site include VAT and prices on the business part of Zen's web site exclude VAT.

I am with AAISP who don't filter the internet and will give 12 months notice should they ever start to. They also have a no [censored] approach and I appreciate that. They do have a usage cap and cost a bit more but they give you all the toys and are always around. When things go wrong you really know why you pay more than the rest. BUT with A&A we all pay the same. No new customer offers here. Also 12 month contract for FTTC

You get the same stats re clean.impacted as me on the BT checker so I would be keen to see what you do actually get. I also get 15mbps on ADSL

Edit

Also A&A auto authorise the extension kit so that the BT guy will put it wherever you like.

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Apr-15 21:29:50)

Indeed. To be fair, Zen are probably only £5-8 more expensive when everything evens out.

Over 12 months, BT aren't that bad - effectively £35.24/month if you pay the line rental in advance.

However, from a standing start, the large savings are attractive... and there's always the option to move ISP at the end of the honeymoon.

In reply to a post by rich_jtg:

... and there's always the option to move ISP at the end of the honeymoon.

And have a second one .

For completeness, I'm just adding that after much pondering and number crunching I'm going to head over to BT for my initial venture into the world of fibre.

I'm going to take advantage of their promotions, and then after 12 months re-evaluate whether to move to somewhere like Zen.

If I hadn't seen so many complaints about Plusnet recently I would have probably gone with them, even though the 18 month contract wasn't attractive.

The equipment requirement and contract put me off Sky, despite it being an attractive option.

Thanks again for all your advice and guidance which has got me this far!

I think Sky are better than BT, just need to get a good offer from them to move. I think BT are running their network under a good deal of management.