Yet another which ISP...

I've been on VM cable for years but an upcoming house move means that is a good time to consider changing back to ADSL. I have no idea who half the ISPs are any more. Back in the day I was with Nildram.

I was looking at Zen as they used to be good but are they rubbish now?

There's also A & A. I don't want to spend money on a phone line I don't use and they seem to offer some bare copper wire rental option which appeals. Do other ISPS offer this? I'm looking at their 1TB home option as most of the others have monthly allowances that I'd burn through in a week.

I use tons of data. I live on netflix/iplayer and upload a fair bit too. VM isn't offering anywhere near the speeds they should so I don't think normal FTTC is going to be actually any slower. Best I get on VM is about 70MBit usually and the traffic shaping/management is awful. When it was the 100mbit top level I'd get 90-100mb all the the time. Now it's 200mbit I never see anything like that speed.

Any recommendations? The A&A isp VDSL option is £60 pm a month all in which is right at the top of what I'm willing to pay really. I'm currently paying about £46 a month to VM for just broadband and it's a slow service but it generally is always on apart from a few hours a year when it's suddenly off for no reason. I use google DNS so their DNS problems haven't affected me.

I'm not sure whether there is a legacy BT phone line in the new place so I've assumed it will have to be a new one. This makes it difficult with some providers as they only let you try and order knowing a phone number.

Are there any stats on general uptime of VM vs BT Fibre? The lack of out of hours support with A & A is a concern.

Have you used the address option of this checker to get speed estimates? Please copy and paste the VDSL lines A and B, and the name of the exchange.

Don't just use the postcode checker - it cannot really be relied on.

Already used several different checkers so I have a good idea of what speed I should get. Upload should be better and download is not that much slower than actual current speeds.

For me it was a no-brainer.

I migrated to AAISP just about 4 weeks ago, and couldn't be happier - highly recommended.

NJSS

I like Sky due to no traffic shaping and no limits. Its cheap at £15p/m plus line rental, appx total of £33 per month. I don't even have a phone plugged in but it was still cheaper per month to take it with a phoneline.....like when I was with VM it was cheaper to get a deal with TV even tough I didn't want the TV but was cheaper at the time than just phone and broadband. Fibre max is what you will want, 20mb upload.

You cannot place an order with the prior owners telephone number as this belongs to them not you.

You just need to provide the address to the gaining provider, chances are there is a line already there but the previous homeowner will have ceased this line when they moved out. In this case often BT openreach have already physically disconnected the line and the new ISP will set things up as if you are getting a brand new line, sometimes this results in a fee.

I have both BT Infinity Unlimited 1 and TalkTalk Fibre Large. Both services work flawless and have no slowdowns. Here is my BT speedtest on 52Mbps product at peak hours: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

BT - their router self reboots every 14 days, other than this I get 14 days of solid connectivity without a drop out.

TalkTalk I can go months without a drop out, but their provided router has a few minor firmware bugs which you may not notice.

BT I pay line rental around £19 + £11 for infinity so £30 a month
TalkTalk - I got a retentions offer so I pay just the cost of line rental at £17.70 a month I believe.

Spending £60 a month is probably an overkill.

EDIT: All major ISPs, Sky, BT and TalkTalk do not have traffic management of any kind. I have been with Sky last year and it was very good - just the Sky Hub was poor, so if you choose Sky ensure you get the Sky Q Hub which is an optional extra.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 02-Oct-16 15:33:00)

Sky is out as it's Murdoch.

I was with BT Openworld and they were dismal so I'm not giving them money again. TT and BT are high up the complaints chart per 100,000 customers so I don't think I'd risk using them.

Uno keep popping up. What are they like?

In reply to a post by teabelly:

Uno keep popping up. What are they like?

Someone posted this today, which might be worthy of a look.

Matt

Yes complaints are high as customer service frankly is not that good.

For most users who do not have much reason to call customer services these ISPs are much cheaper and often offer as good of a service.

If you really care about CS there are many smaller players, however be prudent as some of the traditional smaller providers have recently had significant complaints, do your research before paying higher and potentially getting worse. To date, the small ISP I would recommend is A&A and or uno seems well respected. Personally I cannot justify the high cost.

EDIT:
In truth I have had to call my ISP twice this year for a fault and I spent around 4 hours on the phone. It did get resolved though. If I was paying £70 a month to another provider I am sure I would have had an engineer out in 15 minutes and saved 3+ hours... Alas, for me, saving £40 a month or £480 a year is worth more than 3 hours of my time. Everyones different.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 02-Oct-16 17:04:14)

I don't think I can use Uno as I'm not 100% sure there is a copper pair there. They don't offer the ability to order with a new line so it would take far longer to organise. There was some small print saying that was coming soon as an option.

A & A do everything apart from cheap. I figure it's only a year and they may include things in the installation that cheaper ones would charge extra for so the difference in the first 12 months may not be as high as expected.

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Oct-16 08:59:43)

If the property has only recently become vacant then there is a high chance you can just get the old phone line restarted a lot cheaper than a new provide and would be easy enough for them to look up the address and then tell you if they can do a line restart or not. If they can't them maybe look for a different provider that can.

Uno should be able to as should any WLR3 providers (we do ).

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

If the property has only recently become vacant then there is a high chance you can just get the old phone line restarted a lot cheaper than a new provide and would be easy enough for them to look up the address and then tell you if they can do a line restart or not. If they can't them maybe look for a different provider that can.

It's whether there is a legacy BT line there at all. They also use VM cable.

FYI you have a typos on your http://www.vivaciti.net/fibre broadband pages. Someone can't spell installation correctly.

Hi yes, it could have been a VM line but you will be able to see right away if there is a line that can be restarted or if there is no entry in the DB at all without having to place an order first.

uno topic

uno website

That is all

uno line rental

In reply to a post by teabelly:

I don't think I can use Uno as I'm not 100% sure there is a copper pair there. They don't offer the ability to order with a new line so it would take far longer to organise. There was some small print saying that was coming soon as an option.

Please get in touch.

I'm sure we can help.

Matt

In reply to a post by derekdel:

uno topic

uno website

That is all

I see a price of £22.49 oer month for Fibre 40/10, 100GB usage. Does that amount include line rental?

My recommendation would be Talk Talk Business as you are looking at VDSL offerings. I pay £31.49 all in for the first 12 months and I get 80/20 speeds on the Business wholesale network. Line rental with unlimited calls to landlines and mobiles. I can use an app on my phone (and up to 4 others) and make those calls anywhere. 7 day support and I called them yesterday just to see what they were like, I'm impressed.

It's £46 a month after that (2 year contact) but they will not only let you move twice in those 2 years for free they will also install a new line for free. They do charge £50 for FTTC activation but in my view it's worth it.

After all a line is £120 with them, not sure about with BT. Might be free if you take their service. I have infinity also and apart from congestion which they sorted it works fine.

They also do 12 months free ADSL with £16,95 line rental. Again they will install a line for free if needed.

Worth a note that AAISP also use Talk Talk Business network - so you get the same connection without the 1TB cap and for half the price. Maybe the extra £30 is good for customer support reasons? Never used AAISP support but Talk Talk Support is decent and UK based.

https://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Oct-16 10:12:28)

TalkTalk Business looks good.

I note that their minimum contract is for 24 or 12 months, compared with AAISP's 6 months.

AAISP show great confidence that you won't migrate away by offering such a short minimum.

It's a shame that TalkTalk Business don't have more users reviewing them here.

It's interesting that TalkTalk Business have such a good reputation, and TalkTalk have such a very poor reputation, certainly amongst their users locally.

NJSS

Well there are plenty here

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/talktalkbusiness.co.uk

Someone approached me yesterday from Talk Talk in a shopping centre and when I said I had Talk Talk Business they were stunned and didn't know what to say for about 30 seconds.

Was classic!

If that's the case with AA That's brill, All I know is that personally I would chew through 1TB (my TV does 400GB a month on it's own at UHD/4K ) and when you slow down to 3mbps you are actually using your next months quota.. So I would be forever stuck in 3mbps. And paying through the nose for it.

Granted Upload is not counted in your quota, but even still.

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Oct-16 11:37:47)

In reply to a post by NJSS:

TalkTalk Business looks good.

I note that their minimum contract is for 24 or 12 months, compared with AAISP's 6 months.

AAISP show great confidence that you won't migrate away by offering such a short minimum.

It's a shame that TalkTalk Business don't have more users reviewing them here.

It's interesting that TalkTalk Business have such a good reputation, and TalkTalk have such a very poor reputation, certainly amongst their users locally.

NJSS

Plenty of TalkTalk Business reviews on Trustpilot:
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/talktalkbusiness.co.uk

Yes the 24 month contract is eye watering, however as 23prince has mentioned they allow you up to 2 free house moves in that period. They will also let you leave penalty free if they cannot fix a fault within 28 days, even if the fault is down to Openreach.

Their support is good because its 100% Warrington based with many of their staff being ex-Zen broadband employees so they know a thing or two about broadband.

They offer some decent sim only mobile plans (include 4G data), just a shame they use the O2 network

Edit: 23prince beat me to it

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Oct-16 11:39:22)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by NJSS:

TalkTalk Business looks good.

I note that their minimum contract is for 24 or 12 months, compared with AAISP's 6 months.

AAISP show great confidence that you won't migrate away by offering such a short minimum.

It's a shame that TalkTalk Business don't have more users reviewing them here.

It's interesting that TalkTalk Business have such a good reputation, and TalkTalk have such a very poor reputation, certainly amongst their users locally.

NJSS

Plenty of TalkTalk Business reviews on Trustpilot:
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/talktalkbusiness.co.uk

Yes the 24 month contract is eye watering, however as 23prince has mentioned they allow you up to 2 free house moves in that period. They will also let you leave penalty free if they cannot fix a fault within 28 days, even if the fault is down to Openreach.

Their support is good because its 100% Warrington based with many of their staff being ex-Zen broadband employees so they know a thing or two about broadband.

They offer some decent sim only mobile plans (include 4G data), just a shame they use the O2 network

Edit: 23prince beat me to it

It's OK - I knew you would be along soon - after all you sold them to me

EoFTTC is also £50 a month cheaper on TT so that's clear to see where AAISP make their profit - which is fair enough

It's interesting that TalkTalk Business have such a good reputation, and TalkTalk have such a very poor reputation, certainly amongst their users locally.

It really boils down to the TalkTalk network and connection itself being absolutely fantastic.

The standard TalkTalk customer service is by far the worst CS I have ever encountered, but with time you do get there...
So those who have to contact CS end up unhappy and leave bad reviews.

The business connection fixes the CS issue & TT have the underlying infrastructure to do a very good job.

TBH you have made me consider TT business.

Well that's a good thing to know

Check them out - can do no harm!

Very little 4K programming so how do you use 400GB / month?

Plenty of on-line 4K movies that can be streamed, or downloaded if your BB not fast enough to stream 4K to watch on line. There is even a 4K downloader specifically for downloading Youtube 4K.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Very little 4K programming so how do you use 400GB / month?

What Professor said +

WE have IPTV and the movie library is 4K, there's also Amazon and Netflix in UHD/4K and YT. A constant 35mbps is what the TV uses. So that's a fair chunk of Bandwidth?

I actually use over 10TB a month - I bet that made you wet your pants

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Oct-16 18:15:11)

I'm not so sad as to wet my pants!!

But you are to seem to care?

In any case. You got your answer

English please.

Only got an HD720 TV so I do not care one jot.

Luddite Lol

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

My recommendation would be Talk Talk Business as you are looking at VDSL offerings. I pay £31.49 all in for the first 12 months and I get 80/20 speeds on the Business wholesale network. Line rental with unlimited calls to landlines and mobiles. I can use an app on my phone (and up to 4 others) and make those calls anywhere. 7 day support and I called them yesterday just to see what they were like, I'm impressed.

It's £46 a month after that (2 year contact) but they will not only let you move twice in those 2 years for free they will also install a new line for free. They do charge £50 for FTTC activation but in my view it's worth it.

After all a line is £120 with them, not sure about with BT. Might be free if you take their service. I have infinity also and apart from congestion which they sorted it works fine.

They also do 12 months free ADSL with £16,95 line rental. Again they will install a line for free if needed.

Worth a note that AAISP also use Talk Talk Business network - so you get the same connection without the 1TB cap and for half the price. Maybe the extra £30 is good for customer support reasons? Never used AAISP support but Talk Talk Support is decent and UK based.

https://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/

TalkTalk Business looks decent - especially with the unlimited calls allowance including mobile calls as well.

In reply to a post by maniac886:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

My recommendation would be Talk Talk Business as you are looking at VDSL offerings. I pay £31.49 all in for the first 12 months and I get 80/20 speeds on the Business wholesale network. Line rental with unlimited calls to landlines and mobiles. I can use an app on my phone (and up to 4 others) and make those calls anywhere. 7 day support and I called them yesterday just to see what they were like, I'm impressed.

It's £46 a month after that (2 year contact) but they will not only let you move twice in those 2 years for free they will also install a new line for free. They do charge £50 for FTTC activation but in my view it's worth it.

After all a line is £120 with them, not sure about with BT. Might be free if you take their service. I have infinity also and apart from congestion which they sorted it works fine.

They also do 12 months free ADSL with £16,95 line rental. Again they will install a line for free if needed.

Worth a note that AAISP also use Talk Talk Business network - so you get the same connection without the 1TB cap and for half the price. Maybe the extra £30 is good for customer support reasons? Never used AAISP support but Talk Talk Support is decent and UK based.

https://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/

TalkTalk Business looks decent - especially with the unlimited calls allowance including mobile calls as well.

It appears to be. I used it today to make a 40 mins mobile call over The Cloud wifi - no problem shows up as £0.00 on the portal.

@Broadband666 - it was English, sorry not my problem if you can't understand it.

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

@Broadband666 - it was English

This is nonsense

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

But you are to seem to care?

So you are on TT Business (direct) now are you? It'll be interesting to see for how long ....

HeHe!

I presume you don't have to be registered as a business?

In reply to a post by CJT:

I presume you don't have to be registered as a business?

You do need to be at an exchange where Talk Talk have a presence, to get best prices anyway.

"Lots of love" to you as well.

If people want so much clarity, open the door, go out and enjoy real life in full 3D.

I prefer life in the observable 4D . As for the number of actual dimensions we exist in, I'm not sure what the latest is. Discussion these days seems to be about 10, 11 or 26.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

@Broadband666 - it was English

This is nonsense

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

But you are to seem to care?

I meant He seems anal enough to seem to care, okay so I got my sentence wrong, I knew what it meant anyway

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

So you are on TT Business (direct) now are you? It'll be interesting to see for how long ....

HeHe!

Well 24 months initially, after that I see no reason to change. I still have Infinity but it runs out in about a week, The offer of a new line and install was too good to pass up. And it means I can get ADSL as a backup.

Yes - ordered via the website, so far so good. Same speeds as BT anyway

In reply to a post by CJT:

I presume you don't have to be registered as a business?

Correct. I'm not a business but I do think you get what you pay for, in TTB's exception it seems to me I do pay less than expected. They are no AAISP support wise (based on reviews etc) but I would say they are not far behind. I've called them twice, once before I signed up and then after to set something up - both times, top notch.

The features are just mind blowing. The support is Warrington based and 7 days. The connection seems smooth enough. I actually like having a landline for this one because I can bust my mobile plan down to a basic one now with lots of data but fewer calls due to the Talk2Go app, which me and my wife both have registered and I am going to put my dad and sister on it too because it's up to 5 devices.

All in all, a [censored] good deal in my view.

Edit. I'm on the "complete" package and if you run a dummy order you'll see what they offer - Even things like the Worksafe network level security seem good to have (although I haven't read what it actually does - I assume it's like a network firewall and anti virus or something)

A whole load of free call features, some people care for them, some don't. I have them because they are free and you never know when they might be needed

As Michael stated, if Talk Talk Business are at your exchange then it's 1/2 price for the first 12 months out of 24. They also offer up to 2 premises (or house) moves in those 24 months and as I am moving in that time it's going to save some money and be handy. Even at full price it's a few quid cheaper than Infinity 2 - and i've never been able to get through to BT support, the web chat just times out after an hour or so.

https://www.talktalk.co.uk/business/

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Oct-16 10:07:47)

The A & A minimum on VDSL is 12 months.

TT Business is now looking preferable as out of hours support is important.

I'm not bothered about a phone line as don't use one for calls.

I'll have to check with them about what speeds I think I will get and whether there is a break clause if they're nothing like advertised. I don't want to be stuck with a slow service for 2 years without any way of leaving it.

In reply to a post by teabelly:

I don't want to be stuck with a slow service for 2 years without any way of leaving it.

TTB will let you leave penalty free if they cannot fix any tel line/broadband fault within 28 days of first reporting it - even if the fault is down to Openreach. So you've got nothing to worry about

I'll have to check with them about what speeds I think I will get and whether there is a break clause if they're nothing like advertised. I don't want to be stuck with a slow service for 2 years without any way of leaving it.

This is TalkTalk, the speeds will be fine. Where congestion exists they increase capacity in time. TT do not simply leave users congested forever, if you get involved on their forums you will see with time it does get resolved.

The only reason to avoid TT is the CS and by opting for TT business you are getting the best of both worlds.

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

A whole load of free call features, some people care for them, some don't. I have them because they are free and you never know when they might be needed

Last year a very helpful lass from TTB emailed me all the features my TTB landline was capable of and also how to activate them, such as free three way calling, free call ringback, free call divert to mobiles etc, I'll dig them up and pm them to you. Some of them you might find very useful

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by teabelly:

I don't want to be stuck with a slow service for 2 years without any way of leaving it.

TTB will let you leave penalty free if they cannot fix any tel line/broadband fault within 28 days of first reporting it - even if the fault is down to Openreach. So you've got nothing to worry about

Looks TTB are going to be it then.

In reply to a post by teabelly:

The A & A minimum on VDSL is 12 months.

TT Business is now looking preferable as out of hours support is important.

I'm not bothered about a phone line as don't use one for calls.

I'll have to check with them about what speeds I think I will get and whether there is a break clause if they're nothing like advertised. I don't want to be stuck with a slow service for 2 years without any way of leaving it.

They also give you a minimum speed on the right of the order summary page and it states

"If you report your speed falling below this guaranteed minimum speed and we are unable to resolve the issue within 15 days, you have the right to cancel your contract without termination charges in line with the Ofcom Business Broadband Speeds Code of Practice. You would need to contact us for further details and to discuss your options. ."

So that's not going to happen, As others have said this is Business and not residential - game on!

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Oct-16 16:01:12)

Indeed, "game on"!

Sorry was there a meaning to that?

Anyhoo Teabelly. There is £42 cashback going at topcashback and it does pay out - just in case you are interested.

I didn't bother because I have had problem with this site in the past but does not mean anyone else will.

https://www.topcashback.co.uk/talktalk-business-broa...

Or £60 at Quidco

http://www.quidco.com/talktalk-business-broadband/?s...

Not sure about Quidco but on TCB these are the same for all packages Broadband or FTTC

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Oct-16 16:14:14)

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

Sorry was there a meaning to that?

They have more than once in the past kicked customers off for not being genuine business and not displaying typical business usage patterns. By that I mean groups of customers, not just the odd one or two.

I think your regular over 10TB per month may raise questions. Whatever is said about "unlimited usage" itself.

sent you a pm

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

Sorry was there a meaning to that?

They have more than once in the past kicked customers off for not being genuine business and not displaying typical business usage patterns. By that I mean groups of customers, not just the odd one or two.

Those customers TTB kicked off were mainly ex-Nildram /Pipex/ Freedom2surf customers who were on legacy cheap as chips packages yet were getting the same service as new TTB customers who were paying higher prices. IMHO TTB rightly put them on the cheaper residential service. New TTB customers have nothing to worry about and I suspect the 24 month contract period will scare off the freeloaders

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Oct-16 16:31:26)

It's not regular. It was a rather busy and heavy month with new promotional videos etc being made and sent.

2-3 is usual for me and I know people who do that and more without problems.

ANd also how can they tell if someone is using "typical usage patterns"? we don't all sit in an office and type up word and facebook stuff. A lot of the content I create and send can be 100GB + at a time.

And yes, it's all legal.

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Oct-16 16:31:07)

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

It's not regular. It was a rather busy and heavy month with new promotional videos etc being made and sent.

2-3 is usual for me and I know people who do that and more without problems.

So

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

I actually use over 10TB a month - I bet that made you wet your pants

was a fib. For bragging rights?

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 06-Oct-16 17:01:32)

No,

At the time I wrote that I had done over 10TB for 2 months in a row - busiest part is over for 2016.

Besides, TT had no problem when I told them what my usage could be on busy months and they were fine with it - so why should I worry about/be bothered by what you think?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

They have more than once in the past kicked customers off for not being genuine business

That's not a problem. If they wish to verify my status I can soon point them to Companies House.

So now it wasn't "a month", it was two consecutive months.

Keep changing the story, it's fine . It wasn't me you posted it to, with a rude comment.

No - re read and understand.

I did over 10TB a month for 2 conescutive months. I never said it was over 2 months.

My actual total for August was 16.4TB and September just short of 13TB

No story to change. I am glad however my posting fill up some of your life.

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

I did over 10TB a month for 2 conescutive months. I never said it was over 2 months.

Neither did anyone else.

Clearly you missed the following quote above?

"So now it wasn't "a month", it was two consecutive months."

So yes they did.

What I don't get is why people on here seem bothered when people use a large amount of data? I am genuinely interested. Is it affecting you? no. Is it causing you financial loss? no. Is it causing you any other form of distress,alarm or grief? no ( or shouldn't be - if it is see someone about it

Is it not down to the ISP to be the ONLY ones to care? Yes.

So chill out.

In reply to a post by 23Prince:

Clearly you missed the following quote above?

"So now it wasn't "a month", it was two consecutive months."

So yes they did.

A month isn't 2 months.

Whatever dude, I already put the figures above and explained when it was done.

Move on to something else.

That usage should be fine.

I have talktalk home broadband not business and last month my BT was down, ended up using TT for both home and businesss use (usually just business) that month.

I hadn't realised but I left my 4K android box streaming a 4K live stream for around 25 solid days.

The usage on my router for last month was showing as 4TB with a talktalk home fibre connection which I pay £17.70 a month for and that price includes the line rental. The usage was almost entirely the 4K stream which usually takes around 7.5Gb an hour of data based on my testing.

No issues to be reported from tt.

Over 10TB each month for two consecutive months. As opposed to 10TB for one month.

And I have no objection to your usage. I have a strong objection to the rude comment you included at the time, which as well as being a bit gutterish showed you were just showing off. Though what you thought you were showing off is an unknown.

Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't need to hit over 3TB again until around August next year - but when I explained this they were also fine about it.

If it is ever an issue I would take up their EoFTTC. It's cheaper than AAISP by £50 a month but I wonder if it's better to pay that for the support.. time will tell.

I also have no idea - so apologies.

Are you apologising for being so anal as to know how much you use each month.

I asked a question about 4K content and you got abusive.

I haven't mastered "time and space" yet!!

I wasn't apologising to you at all. Sorry if I gave the impression I was but I clearly replied to the person it was intended for.