General Discussion
  >> Which ISP?


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Mon 17-Apr-17 20:43:04
Print Post

ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[link to this post]
 
Another house move another Openreach fail. Last time I moved I was with Plusnet and it took Openreach six weeks to connect me. This time it's been four weeks since I moved and still waiting.

I've been told they've finished the work at the local cabinet--three weeks to send an engineer to connect our building--and a new phone line order should now be able to proceed. Ideally I'd like to avoid Openreach altogether but Virgin aren't available at my address.

SamKnows says my exchange is Primrose Hill:

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WEWPRI

I'm interested in:

Sky: ADSL £18.99 a month + £9.95 connection + 12 month contract
NOW TV: Fibre £29.99 a month + £44 connection + 1 month contract

My old ISP wanted around £80 inc. VAT for a new line connection so those two deals look good. I'm aware that NOW TV is a subsidiary of Sky and based on those numbers I would go for the NOW TV fibre package.

Have I missed anything or does anyone have any comments before I commit. We may relocate in a year so want a monthly or one year contract at the most. I believe SKY is LLU so they have some independence from Openreach if I understand correctly.

Thanks.
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 17-Apr-17 20:47:52
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
I am on the NowTV 1 month contract which is my backup line, Just be aware that the wifi on the router they supply is pants and you can use your own if you know how to set it up - but Sky don't like it.

I am about to leave them because my third party router is not allowed, and theirs is pants.

Sky have their own network but Openreach do not allow anyone but them to look after it - So they are all at the mercy of Openreach. It just means they can do cheaper pricing.

You might want to have a look at Talk Talk Business. Much better than Talk Talk residential in regards to faults and network priority, okay it's a 24 month contract at £45.54 a month BUT they include the line rental and this is the 80/20 product, unlimited calls to mobile and landlines, 7 day support and you can move twice for free within a 12 month period inside of the 24 month contract, which may well come in handy for you if you do move within the next 24 months. You DONT have to reset the contract either!

Many people cringe at the 24 month contract, but I am 6 months in now and I have had no problems at all.

Edited by 23Prince (Mon 17-Apr-17 20:50:48)

Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Mon 17-Apr-17 21:07:42
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: 23Prince] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. What's the issue with the Now TV router? Is it reach, speed, stability or a combination of problems? If it's reach it won't be a problem for us as we're in a small apartment for this year at least. If our circumstances were more stable the Talk Talk business package would be a possibility---I've seen other posts recommending it---but we can't commit to 24 months at the moment.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User Kr1s69
(knowledge is power) Mon 17-Apr-17 21:16:15
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
Have you already placed an order for a new line?

I can't work out from your post as it sounds like BT openreach are already working on connecting you, but you're after a new provider which sounds conflicting.

If you've not placed an order, BT have £150 reward card and £100 cashback from topcash back.

No idea on their fee for a new line though.

Kris

Sky Fibre
Ashington (Northumberland) Exchange
Standard User 23Prince
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 17-Apr-17 21:38:35
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: Kr1s69] [link to this post]
 
It's free usually if you sign for 12 months.

OP - fair enough. It's the wifi and the fact it's not good at getting speed through it.
Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Mon 17-Apr-17 21:39:56
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: Kr1s69] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. I didn't go into details because it's too complicated. My new address is a new build where Openreach have a bad track record. I had placed an order for a new line with my old ISP but when Openreach came surprise surprise they couldn't connect me. Last week my old ISP told me work at a cabinet in the street has been completed so a new phone line should be closer but at that point my ISP notified me they were cancelling my order for whatever reason. They refunded me in full and recommended I find another supplier.

Thanks for the BT suggestion but I'd rather avoid them as I just don't want to give them my money. I seem to recall they also have numerous reports of bad customer service.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 17-Apr-17 22:13:33
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
From what you say it may be that a new "infill cabinet" has been installed to cater for EO lines that cannot get FTTC. Until that Openreach work is completed and existing users moved over I believe no new orders for anything can be taken.

As has been said, but not in detail, everybody who is not on Virgin Media cable is reliant on Openreach from their premises to the exchange.

There is a slight difference between ADSLx and FTTC in that LLU strictly speaking only refers to ADSL2+, and means the LLU supplier has their own MSAN in the exchange and has full control of the DSL on the line.

On FTTC the DSL is supplied by Openreach from the local cabinet and only they have full control over it. The ISP can request one of three stability levels, but that's about it. At the FTTC headend exchange, which may not be the current line exchange, the traffic is handed over to the relevant wholesaler's or retailer's backhaul.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Tue 18-Apr-17 22:03:48
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
I went with NOW TV. It's a great price for someone that needs a new line installation and a TV service to boot.

My next Openreach engineer visit is scheduled for two weeks away. Lets see if they can actually manage to install the line this time. That gives me plenty of time before their visit to write to OFCOM and the government about how pathetic Openreach are and how they should be broken up.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 18-Apr-17 22:48:41
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
Breaking up Openreach is a novel idea. What bits do you suggest is it broken into and how would the separate bits work together? Quite apart from buyers for the bits would be required.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Apr-17 11:58:01
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
As others have mentioned router is really bad:

1. Regularly reboots if you connect 16ish or more devices (SR102)
2. Single band 2.4Ghz

Best to change this up.

Regarding your choice of provider, it does not seem an amazing deal given the £44 install fee and the fact you will need to buy a new router if you want something decent.

TalkTalk is £27 including new line
Sky is also cheaper than NowTV.

Regarding moving properties I have moved 6 times in 7 years and I have never paid an install fee. I have also never been outside of a minimum term contract. All I do is when it comes to the move, I renegotiate the whole contract, and get a free home move included in that. This usually locks me in for a further 12 months or 24 months, and guess what, I end up moving again before it's done with and renegotiate again. Not saying it is always possible but I have had no issues.
Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Wed 19-Apr-17 12:09:09
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I would break up their absolute monopoly so that customers have choice. I'd make them directly accountable to customers instead of hiding behind ISPs. I'd set customer performance targets with tough financial penalties. I'd pass legislation to compel house builders and infrastructure companies like Virgin and Openreach to plan connectivity into new builds where offered so they're working from day one. I'd look into the possibility of public prosecution against Openreach for gross negligence. I'd sell them off so that BT can't touch them. Can't be any worse than it is now.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Apr-17 12:19:30
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
Question, so if a developer in John O'Groats builds new homes, Virgin Media must have service available from day one of person moving in?

Be an interesting share issue if Openreach was sold based on those set of rules and actions

Perhaps better to ignore Openreach totally and encourage alternates to be more widely available?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 19-Apr-17 12:33:03
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
How would you break up their monopoly to ensure customer have choice?

Would you break it up in to lots of small area based companies? Wouldn't that just mean that costs would go up (ie lack of economy of scale and difficulties getting investment) and could also end up in the US situation where people still only have one choice in a particular area.

Also, over half the country is not an Openreach monopoly - and that percentage is growing as alternates and VM increase coverage.

It is easy to say break them up but the alternative could be very much worse.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Apr-17 14:30:49
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
Rather than ranting have you actually bothered to think about what you are proposing? I suspect not otherwise you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous post. As for new builds the responsibility for arranging a service rests with the developer and it is the developer through the planning process that needs to ensure the provision of adequate services and not the service provider of which there are potentially many.
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Apr-17 14:39:58
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
4 people with 4 devices each connecting simultaneously. Seems a bit much!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 19-Apr-17 14:44:44
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by edwinbradford:
I'd make them directly accountable to customers instead of hiding behind ISPs. I'd set customer performance targets with tough financial penalties.
How would Openreach be directly accountable to customers, (do you mean end users?), for customer performance targets, when Openreach have no facility whatsoever to provide an internet service to end users?

It's possible that line rental could be sold direct to end users, but that's about all.

How would you legislate for the above anyway if you had already split up Openreach into something you haven't defined? As in "That gives me plenty of time before their visit to write to OFCOM and the government about how pathetic Openreach are and how they should be broken up".

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65273/13554Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
Standard User Davey_H
(learned) Wed 19-Apr-17 15:13:37
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Regarding your choice of provider, it does not seem an amazing deal given the £44 install fee and the fact you will need to buy a new router if you want something decent.

TalkTalk is £27 including new line
Sky is also cheaper than NowTV.


You only get 2Mbps upload and you're tied into an 18month contract for that price with TT

Sky's standard pricing for unlimited fibre is actually dearer, and also ties you into an 18 month contract, and the setup/install fee is currently £59.95, and you get the same [censored] router

http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/fibre-optic/#...

The Now TV Combo deal with no contract, and a TV pass thrown in looks like a reasonable deal in comparison to me....

Edited by Davey_H (Wed 19-Apr-17 15:29:30)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Apr-17 15:39:22
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
4 people with 4 devices each connecting simultaneously. Seems a bit much!
Depends really. There are 2 of us here but the following are connected 24/7:

1. Smart TV WIFi
2. Kindle Fire HD stick
3. Epson WiFi Printer
4. TV Set Top Box
5. PS4
6. Xbox
7. iPad (pretty much always at home)

& we only have the 1 TV. Plenty of families have 1 main living room TV, then kids have a TV with ps, xbox or whatever, most of these new TVs are smart. So I tip plenty of homes have 16 devices "just online" without doing anything.

The ones above rarely if ever get fully turned off. Then we both have a work phone and personal phone, so if we are both home you have the following auto connecting.

8. iPhone Work - me
9. iPhone Personal - me
10. iPhone Work - not me
11. iPhone Personal - not me

Again where they have 4+ people there might be more tablets, more phones, more kindles etc.

Then say I fire up the work laptop to do some work, that's 12 devices online, when actually I have only manually connected 1 device. All other 11 are just online by us both being in the home, even if they are not in use.

When I lived with 5 people we used to have 30+ devices online some evenings.

Interestingly when I had Sky, we had these constant reboots, and when Sky said it's because we have more than 16 devices connected, we at first only thought we had about 10. It really adds up when you count everything.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 19-Apr-17 15:41:25)

Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Wed 19-Apr-17 20:18:20
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Yes I read up on that. Not sure if the new Smart Box is as bad as the older model, many of the complaints may relate to the latter. You can use another router, a Sky Q Hub going cheap on Ebay or plug a router into the Ethernet port and use it as a wireless access point. It's not prohibited it just won't get any technical support.

Your points one and two are valid but won't be an issue for me. I'm right next to the router and only have four or five devices between two people. I already have a router so I don't need to buy one if I decide to use it and the £44 connection charge is for a one month contract. It's only £22 for a twelve month contract.

£44 connection charge for fibre on a one month contract is a fantastic deal. My old provider, rated in the top two by ISPreview users, charged me £40 to terminate my old connection and wanted £80 to connect a new ADSL line (Openreach). Pulse8---also highly rated---wanted £80 + £50 for ADSL connection and £178.50 for fibre connection. Again Openreach charges.

There are cheaper deals yes but Talk Talk residential score way below Sky for customer service, I'm sure you're aware that NOW TV is owned by Sky. Finally where are you getting your figures from? Sky is £29 a month plus £60 connection charge for fibre on an *18 month* contract which is out of the question for me. http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/broadband-com...

Anyway, thanks for contributing and the forewarning. The router support is a minus point but I think I can deal with it.
Standard User edwinbradford
(regular) Thu 20-Apr-17 20:36:03
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: edwinbradford] [link to this post]
 
I received a phone call from NOW TV this afternoon. Openreach can not supply me with fibre because the cabinet is full. They cancelled the order.
Standard User JohnR
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 21-Apr-17 21:17:46
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
How would you break up their monopoly to ensure customer have choice?

Would you break it up in to lots of small area based companies? Wouldn't that just mean that costs would go up (ie lack of economy of scale and difficulties getting investment) and could also end up in the US situation where people still only have one choice in a particular area.

It is easy to say break them up but the alternative could be very much worse.


Very much like Hull.... Where at one point you could only get a service from Kcom @ very poor speeds and expensive prices....

At least 15 years ago, NTL installed cables when there were major road works. Has there been any more activity on getting installs to houses... Nope... And it seems there is no chance as Virgin are not prepared to spend the money to finish the job off.
Still thankfully Openreach have spent the money and we now have great speeds.

So the OP thinks that new builds should get a choice on install as soon as they move in.... oh how that will be a major shock to the companies.
Perhaps that requires a bit more thought by the developers of the sites. Who seem more interested in chucking houses up. I have seen estates of 50 ish houses spring up in under 3 months... Yet the OP expects a infrastructure to be in place for them.... I think that should be down the the developer to sort out. Can't expect Openreach/virgin etc to drop everything else in the area to service the houses. When they are already struggling to service these area's.

\_0-0_/ AdsL is Hell \_0-0_/
To Infinity
Wats SUP doc.... You using too much.....
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 22-Apr-17 09:11:49
Print Post

Re: ISP phone and broadband package inc. line installation


[re: JohnR] [link to this post]
 
A major block is that on many new builds when the first people move in the roads are unadopted and thus are private and code powers do not apply either, so rolling out needs more interaction with developers.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to