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Standard User Pheasant
(learned) Wed 15-Jul-20 16:09:34
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2Connect - Leased Line provision


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Hi,

Is anyone signed up to a leased line package using 2Connect? The headline rates look quite good (for a London based service). Just wondering if folks have any experience of them.

Many thanks
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Sat 18-Jul-20 19:27:30
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
In the process of getting quotes from 2Connect and various LL providers including Talk Talk Business, Virgin Media Business as well as some other resellers including Aspire.

I'm seeing a surprisingly wide variation in prices, which on the face of it is essentially a like-for like bandwidth / contract duration, similar construction fund guarantees, performance metrics, availability, SLAs, response and fix times.

The only company so far offering a "guaranteed" 45-day install is 2Connect....appealing, coming from my somewhat recent FTTPoD install which took nigh on 11 months and cost £6.5K (before VAT and any voucher scheme reduction).

Bizarrely when I look at the total costs over 3 years, I can get a Gig/on Gig leased line in what so happens to be a "well served" inner-London area for not a massive amount more than an "out of town" Openreach based FTTP(oD) service. They are quite different beasts obviously but fairly high ECC of the FTTPoD service skew things.

BTW - I'm not sure if this is the right place on the forum to discuss direct internet access / leased lines, if its not please point me in the right direction.

Edited by Pheasant (Sat 18-Jul-20 19:28:54)

Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Thu 23-Jul-20 18:57:09
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Colours now nailed to the mast. I’ve accepted the quote from 2Connect for a Virgin Media based Gig on Gig service.

The survey has been booked, so we will see where the ECC’s come out in the wash....


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Standard User Sammm_
(learned) Fri 24-Jul-20 00:01:34
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
It's odd how they've guaranteed a 45 day lead time. From experience, sales tools can be very inaccurate and the only way to sort of know when the circuit will be ready is when Openreach provides the survey results and CCD. Should also note that if you wish to cancel, do it before you get the CCD otherwise you will be hit with a £2k+ cancellation charge.

Otherwise congrats on your purchase.

BT EO Line 16/1 with Vigor130, MX64, MR33 and MS120-8LP

Cisco Certified Network Associate.
Certified Meraki Network Associate.

All views are my own.
Standard User danielhyde
(regular) Fri 24-Jul-20 09:30:05
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
out of interest how much are you paying if you don't mind me asking?

also as Sammm_ said the guaranteed lead time seems a little short especially for Virgin Media.

I help manage a relationship between a customer and Virgin Media that has over 400 connections and their lead time for leased lines is 70 days and that's not even guaranteed.
Standard User Highland76
(member) Fri 24-Jul-20 09:52:54
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Would it not have been cheaper & quicker to get a new 1 Gig Openreach FTTP line as you already have FTTPoD? Unless you cant get above 330?

BT Business FTTP 330/50 -- Netgear RAX200
Standard User jamescr
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-20 13:14:52
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
We ordered one in May, still waiting an install date. Getting regular updates. Obviously can't comment about the actual connection yet, but no concerns thus far.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Fri 24-Jul-20 13:32:03
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Highland76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Highland76:
Would it not have been cheaper & quicker to get a new 1 Gig Openreach FTTP line as you already have FTTPoD? Unless you cant get above 330?

Different site altogether. No Openreach FTTP is available at the London site.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Fri 24-Jul-20 14:03:22
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by danielhyde:
out of interest how much are you paying if you don't mind me asking?

also as Sammm_ said the guaranteed lead time seems a little short especially for Virgin Media.

I help manage a relationship between a customer and Virgin Media that has over 400 connections and their lead time for leased lines is 70 days and that's not even guaranteed.

They have put the 45 days in writing...

Excess construction fund is £10K. Virgin have ducts and chambers on the street already, serving their cable. There is a brand new lead-in conduit and draw rope fitted from their nearest chamber already.

Rental is somewhere between £300 and £400 ppm. I leave it to your imagination precisely where along that spectrum... wink
Standard User jpm
(regular) Fri 24-Jul-20 14:44:17
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Gigabit leased lines in central London are dirt cheap, which is just as well because it's that or ADSL a lot of the time.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Fri 24-Jul-20 14:54:57
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: jpm] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jpm:
Gigabit leased lines in central London are dirt cheap, which is just as well because it's that or ADSL a lot of the time.

Hehe yeah define "dirt cheap" wink

Saying that 2Connect were several hundred pounds per month cheaper than VMB for the same service! I don't think VMB were really trying that hard...
Standard User jamescr
(newbie) Fri 24-Jul-20 16:13:58
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Leased lines are cheap everywhere at the minute, 2Connect were the cheapest we spoke to but there were a few within a few pounds of 2Connect for us, and there were a lot who were more than double.
ISP Representative merula
(isp) Fri 24-Jul-20 20:26:21
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
The '45 day guarantee' is a current promotion from Virgin themselves - in thaory any provider using VMB can (or at least should) offer that
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Sammm_
(learned) Fri 24-Jul-20 23:46:42
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: merula] [link to this post]
 
I wasn't aware. Thats a really good lead time comapred to some I've seen.

£400pm for 1gbps is a very good price.

BT EO Line 16/1 with Vigor130, MX64, MR33 and MS120-8LP

Cisco Certified Network Associate.
Certified Meraki Network Associate.

All views are my own.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Sat 25-Jul-20 07:32:59
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Sammm_] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Sammm_:
I wasn't aware. Thats a really good lead time comapred to some I've seen.

£400pm for 1gbps is a very good price.

Yes a pretty compelling deal and the price was well south of £400.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Sat 25-Jul-20 07:37:59
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: merula] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by merula:
The '45 day guarantee' is a current promotion from Virgin themselves - in thaory any provider using VMB can (or at least should) offer that

I have a direct quote from VMB, not only were they £200 per month adrift of the price I was offered by 2Connect there was no mention from them of a 45 day install time guarantee.

I can only surmise they either weren’t terribly interested or their sales guy was literally going though the motions....
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Tue 28-Jul-20 12:36:43
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: jamescr] [link to this post]
 
"Leased lines are cheap everywhere at the minute" - not everywhere. In urban areas there are some very good prices, but in rural areas the prices are much much higher, and seem to be rising. Admittedly I haven't checked for a year, but 5 years ago I was quoted 325+VATpm for a 30Mbps on 100, but more recently the cheapest was a 50 on 1Gbps for over £700pm.
Standard User danielhyde
(regular) Tue 28-Jul-20 13:27:30
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
"Leased lines are cheap everywhere at the minute" - not everywhere. In urban areas there are some very good prices, but in rural areas the prices are much much higher, and seem to be rising. Admittedly I haven't checked for a year, but 5 years ago I was quoted 325+VATpm for a 30Mbps on 100, but more recently the cheapest was a 50 on 1Gbps for over £700pm.


I installed a 100/1000 leased line for a customer not that long ago in a rural area for £400 per month
Standard User sheephouse
(member) Tue 28-Jul-20 13:58:13
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
That's not bad, but still a lot more than it would be in an urban area - and I'm guessing it wouldn't be that price in all rural areas.
A superfast connection would be nice, but even at that price it makes more sense to give up work and use the money to retire early.
Standard User Pheasant
(regular) Wed 29-Jul-20 06:31:04
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: sheephouse] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sheephouse:
"Leased lines are cheap everywhere at the minute" - not everywhere. In urban areas there are some very good prices, but in rural areas the prices are much much higher, and seem to be rising. Admittedly I haven't checked for a year, but 5 years ago I was quoted 325+VATpm for a 30Mbps on 100, but more recently the cheapest was a 50 on 1Gbps for over £700pm.

The gist of his “everywhere” comment was I believe about leased line service pricing elsewhere around the country as a whole.

Of course rural areas in comparison to urban ones (or where a provider has ready access to infrastructure) will virtually always be more expensive to connect for a single service. I know that all too well.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 17:41:42
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
By way of update to this thread, we waved good-bye to 2Connect on 15 December last year, before the order had ever materialised.

We signed up with them on 16 July and after the initial survey was completed on 8 August, which came back all clear, we then went into planning and delivery. Order clock started officially ticking on 7 September (when planning was "complete") or so were told at the time.

A few weeks later around 24 September we were notified that excess constructions charges (or ECCs, for those unfamiliar with the terminology) of £2,800 were "found on this order and a little bit of extra work", but that these would be "covered".

More time passed, and on 2 October we were told "planning has been completed and this is now with the delivery team following the escalation"....although planning was supposed to have already been completed a month earlier on 7 September. First alarm bells begin ringing....

One week later on 9 October we were suddenly told "This order is being held up by a lead order, the lead order driving the fibre delivery in the area is subject to a wayleave agreement. The supplier advises they will update further next week."

Second alarm bells ringing...why all of a sudden was our dedicated leased line order being (a) linked with another order and (b) what the heck did any wayleaves have to do with us?

More time passes, and on 26 October we are told, "The lead order is in the final stages of planning but VMB rules are to complete the lead order and then ours can be installed. I'm going to keep working on the escalation to see if I can get more info/traction. The issue we are having is VMB are not obligated to keep us updated on the lead order just if it is progressing or not."

So the early sales patter about a '45 working day install guarantee' has now been long forgotten. Rather I'm basically told "we are waiting on this other order to complete. If this lead order slips there is nothing we can do about it I’m afraid."

On 9 December the update was "Blockages have been identified by the cable crew while working on the LEAD order, once these have been cleared the cable work can continue on the LEAD order."

By this stage my patience is really wearing thin. Bear in mind I have no idea (due to data protection) where this lead order actually is or how it actually relates to our order. I never get any more info on it. On 15th December I'm still getting told they are generating "blockage packs" on the lead order...not my order mind you...and they expect that the civil works on the blockages will be done in January!!

OK so enough is enough. After threatening earlier to cancel the order, on 15 December with no further real progress on this lead order, I finally pull the plug on the order and 2Connect.

Not a great experience tbh. But thought I should share in case anyone is contemplating using them and wanted any first hand feedback.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 17:51:17
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Before anyone asks, I did have another user on here contact me personally at the start of my thread and order. They too were using 2Connect, but for similar reasons many months into their own order, they also cancelled their 2Connect order.

The parting words from the chap at 2Connect in December was:

"...if you cancel the order you will be back at the beginning of the process again and on top of that wait, the price will also be higher as you’re pricing is part of a promotion we were running.

If you want to proceed then that’s great but we are looking Jan/Feb time to set expectations and NOBODY can get the order in any quicker."

To be fair they offered to pick up the tab for any cancellation charges(....but I wasn't prepared to pay any anyway!!)

I have subsequently signed a contract with another leased line service provider. The cost is actually lower than the quote I received from 2Connect in July. This circuit will be Openreach based (rather than VMB) and I have already had the Openreach survey completed last week. We are slated for delivery of the circuit in the next 10 days...

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 12-Jan-21 17:52:03)

Standard User jpm
(member) Tue 12-Jan-21 19:11:36
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
VM are by far the worst supplier we've dealt with. We placed two orders for leased lines to a location that already had existing Openreach and VM fibres - the Openreach service went live 14 days after the order was placed, the VM one took four months and they insisted on running new fibre.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 19:16:29
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: jpm] [link to this post]
 
+1. They didn't exactly cover themselves in glory when I was once a VM residential cable customer.

Was honestly expecting much better from VMB, based on the promises that were made, but subsequently broken.

Lesson learned.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 12-Jan-21 19:17:20
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Please let us know how it goes. If it is installed in 10 days, or even a few more, it'll be a hilarious story for you and all of us. Frustrating Infuriating for you for the last seven months of course, but even so!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
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Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Tue 12-Jan-21 20:00:25
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Is it a site to site circuit or is one end a POP site?
The linked order could be a driver circuit for the ethernet shelf at the PoP. The driver circuit leads the order for the whole shelf, including the power and remote management and the router to access the configs.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 21:18:39
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Please let us know how it goes. If it is installed in 10 days, or even a few more, it'll be a hilarious story for you and all of us. Frustrating Infuriating for you for the last seven months of course, but even so!

Hopefully haven't jinxed myself, but yes indeed!
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 21:25:45
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
POP to site. There was never any indication from VMB where the mysterious lead order was or how it actually related to our order, suffice to say that (1) apparently it *had* to be completed in full before our order could even begin to go ahead (2) "they" were paying the ECCs (I guess from the kindness of their heart, thank you!!!) and (3) this order had wayleave and duct blockage issues (the latter still unresolved as of December).
Standard User jpm
(member) Tue 12-Jan-21 21:32:28
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
I've had exactly this situation happen before, where VMB quoted a price and a lead time and then decided to just put the order on hold until they had more interest from other tenants in the building so they could link the orders together. They never said anything about it before accepting the order, though.
Standard User Pheasant
(committed) Tue 12-Jan-21 21:52:21
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Re: 2Connect - Leased Line provision


[re: jpm] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jpm:
I've had exactly this situation happen before, where VMB quoted a price and a lead time and then decided to just put the order on hold until they had more interest from other tenants in the building so they could link the orders together. They never said anything about it before accepting the order, though.

After I ordered, there were certain turns of phrase used in their update emails. The language/parlance that was transcribed, led my to believe that there was a middleman involved rather than simply 2Connect <-> VMB.

I subsequently had it confirmed - from private discussions here with another (former) 2Connect customer- that 2Connect were buying circuit via ITS. Nothing new there for the trade, certainly not a state secret in the slightest, but it was never admitted or revealed to me by 2Connect. Strike one for transparency (or the lack thereof) or just basic business ethics.

I strongly suspected that any order "linking/ bundling" was done by ITS and/or VMB.

Caveat emptor.
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