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Standard User olicuk
(member) Sun 16-Aug-20 00:31:04
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Which provider on OFNL


[link to this post]
 
Hi all

I'm planning to move into an OFNL-enabled home later in the year, and am looking for recommendations of which ISPs are good, and which to avoid, from those who have contracted with OFNL. I'm also keen to get a static IP address, so if you know of any ONFL ISPs who can provide this, along with costs, I'd love to hear about it.

Having reviewed all of the suppliers and their package options (as well as the quality of their websites!), my preferred options so far are:

MTH Networks - 300/300 £52/mo + £30 setup
Pure Broadband - 360/180 £54/mo + £20 setup
Air Broadband - 300/300 £52.50/mo + £50 setup
Kinetic Telecom - 360/180 £66/mo + £45 setup

I've contacted all of the above to enquire about Fixed IP availability so will see what they say; so far Kinetic have said they do offer it, but only on their business service which costs £1/mo more... but also then incurs an additional £100 on top of the £45 consumer setup charge.

Has anyone heard any more about Sky's/ONFL's press-release last year that Sky would offer broadband services via OFNL in "Summer 2020"?

And what's with the long list of "Business ISPs" listed on the ONFL website? The majority don't seem to mention OFNL on their websites or include OFNL postcodes in their postcode lookups (they just return the standard BTW response about the site/address being blocked). Do any of these actually offer reasonable SOHO/Small Business packages to those connected to the OFNL network, or is this really just to allow their larger corporate clients who find themselves in an OFNL location to obtain leased lines and the like?

Whilst I'm looking forward to "full fibre" and 300Mbps+ speeds, including seemingly far better upload speeds than reasonably available from Openreach, I'm somewhat nervous of having to leave Zen who have provided excellent service for the last ~6 years. I notice one of the few posts about ONFL on here suggested to the last OP that they contact Zen and ask if they would offer services with ONFL, but I assume that went nowhere ;.(

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fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-Aug-20 23:58:53
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Can you not get a service direct from OFNL rather than any third party?

You may find that even if you do not have a static IP address, the address does not change often..

Michael Chare
Standard User olicuk
(member) Mon 17-Aug-20 02:20:18
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
I believe See The Light is OFNLs sister brand which provides the retail service, and therefore one of the 8 or so options. However not currently on my short list, in the same way BT hasn't ever been on my FTTC short list!

Just after posting my question last night, I found a PDF of a leaflet from Redraw Internet, another one of the OFNL ISPs, which mentioned that static IPs are available so I also emailed them and they were one of the first to respond... a static IP is available on their consumer packages for £3/mo. However they 'only' offer the 360/72 package according to their website, rather than the 300/300 or 360/180 options from the other suppliers.

MTH have also confirmed they can offer a fixed IP, will hopefully get their pricing and responses to my enquiries to some of the others tomorrow.

Does anyone also know if ONFL ISPs are really just reselling a whitelabelled service where ONFL provide all connectivity to the Internet eXchange Point, or if traffic is handed off to the ISPs somewhere in the same way most ISPs using Openreach and BTW unbundle part of the service and receive and route all their consumer traffic through their own network.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Zen VDSL2 80:20 (~64:20) bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP


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Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 17-Aug-20 14:07:48
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by olicuk:
Does anyone also know if ONFL ISPs are really just reselling a whitelabelled service where ONFL provide all connectivity to the Internet eXchange Point, or if traffic is handed off to the ISPs somewhere in the same way most ISPs using Openreach and BTW unbundle part of the service and receive and route all their consumer traffic through their own network.

I suspect everyone has to use the OFNL ONT. It appears to have a BT type telephone socket. It would be worth checking that you can use your own VOIP hardware and a VOIP provider of your own choice.

Michael Chare
Standard User kmendum
(newbie) Mon 17-Aug-20 19:51:42
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Michael is correct. OFNL backhaul the traffic from their ONT to Telehouse or one of the Equinix datacentres from where it eventually connects to the Internet.

Their exclusive access at residential and commercial developments is not entirely viewed as a good thing within the industry now that FTTP has a greater footprint, and there is an obvious competition issue.
Standard User HMSWoofDog
(newbie) Fri 01-Jan-21 17:20:25
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Hi, i found your post via a google search and it looks similar to my search, with a twist...

I've been with See the Light since last year and im looking around for a static IP address - did you manage to find out who offer static IPs and what deals there were?

Thanks!
ISP Representative merula
(isp) Fri 01-Jan-21 20:32:58
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: HMSWoofDog] [link to this post]
 
If it helps we can offer OFNL service and normally provide a static IP by default.

We also offer IPv6

Please free to message here if we can help
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User HMSWoofDog
(newbie) Fri 01-Jan-21 20:34:54
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: merula] [link to this post]
 
excellent, yes please! How do i found out further info? thanks
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Jan-21 01:03:39
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: HMSWoofDog] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by HMSWoofDog:
excellent, yes please! How do i found out further info? thanks
Click on their Nick in the header, that takes you to their public profile and from there you can send a PM.

You can also read and send from your private profile. Keep an eye open for a flashing envelope at the left of the main menu, which notifies you of an incoming message.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 02-Jan-21 01:06:49)

Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 02-Jan-21 08:43:33
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: kmendum] [link to this post]
 
you are on what is affectionaly known as an Openreach lock out site
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Jan-21 09:21:29
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
What are those?

Note this is an August 2020 thread and the poster you replied to hasn't posted since then (but does appear to be legit). I gave the re-opener the benefit of the doubt as it could well be genuine, and unimportant if it isn't.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 02-Jan-21 09:55:52
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
What are those

Usually private estates or gated communities where the developer has struck a deal with an altnet, or already has a relationship with an altnet, that excludes all other networks. As they are private roads there is no legal right to install telecoms network without the landowners permission.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Jan-21 10:23:01
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Thanks smile.

I've thought for a long time that such lockouts should be illegal. Or at least, legally required to be publicised very clearly on all initial sale documents, which might discourage such lockouts..

They can cost unwitting buyers thousands of pounds. Both while living there, and on resale where the question is (in my opinion) more likely to be asked.

In a way, it amounts to bribery of the builder by the broadband provider, to obtain a monopoly. As opposed to promoting competition.

Hmm, thinks. I wonder if anyone has ever notified the Monopolies Commission. Perhaps it is outside its remit. The fact it only affects a small number, (but at multiple locations), shouldn't be relevant.

Edit: (Semi-joking addition) Imagine telling people they can only own one specific make of car if they wish to live there! And only telling them after exchange of contract on the property.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 02-Jan-21 10:27:52)

Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 02-Jan-21 15:24:37
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Gent

gated commmunities and private estates will normally have copper already) so are not lockout (as the already usually have copper)

New build with operators such as virgin only, or GTC or INF who have no copper are knows as lockout sites as Openreach is unlikley ever to provide service to that area

so you could not ever community fibre an lockout site as there would be no network)
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 02-Jan-21 15:26:34
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
robertos

its a big problem in a new development as that your choice for ever regardless
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 02-Jan-21 16:28:38
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fastman3:
Gent

gated commmunities and private estates will normally have copper already) so are not lockout (as the already usually have copper)

New build with operators such as virgin only, or GTC or INF who have no copper are knows as lockout sites as Openreach is unlikley ever to provide service to that area

so you could not ever community fibre an lockout site as there would be no network)


Usually private estates or gated communities where the developer has struck a deal with an altnet, or already has a relationship with an altnet

I think that's pretty clear .
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Jan-21 16:52:02
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Fastman3:
robertos

its a big problem in a new development as that your choice for ever regardless
Ummm???

As witchunt pointed out, they were talking about new-build estates. That was the post I replied to,

Wrt respect to this reply of yours, you seem to ignored everything I posted except the fact that I posted. You simply reiterate my basic point.

However, a change in the law could remedy the problem, requiring other wholesalers to have access.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Sat 02-Jan-21 21:09:23
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
robertos

sorry was not very clear on this - its becoming bigger problem for new build say 2 - 5 years old that does not have Openreach network as there is now very limited choice, all the sweeteners have gone and no chance ever of Openreach providing network in that estate

even if the law changed that would not be retrospective
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 04-Jan-21 13:41:08
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
The law change I was suggesting would be to make the estate cabling available to other providers, at sensible prices. I accept there could be considerable technical challenges with that due to clashes between systems, but given research resources (magically appearing LOL) the problems should not be insoluble.

Possible only access to the ducting is what is needed?

I wasn't suggesting the digging up of roads, though on reflection that would probably be cheaper than solving the technical side, given the still comparatively low volume of such estates.

Competition policy gone wrong! frown

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 15:56:16
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It is competition on the macro scale (ie national) that then has the effect of removing competition at the micro scale (individual).
Standard User kitcat
(experienced) Mon 04-Jan-21 16:31:43
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Roberto

It is actually simple, OFCOM designate all such sites as Monopoly and mandate PIA products to be available. ( Just as OR have too) . End of issue as it makes it a level playing field across every infrastructure provider it would be very difficult to argue with.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 04-Jan-21 17:06:36
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You will probably find some of these lockouts actually claiming to be Open Access networks with wholesale products

Sky is the big name retailer beyond seethelight in the various OFNL locations, DirectSaveTelecom is another. Might even be TalkTalk these days too.

As for people being unaware, a lot depends on the solicitor doing the paperwork i.e. pointing out the various covenant clauses you get in some locations around car parking, caravans, colour of paintwork, height of hedges/fences etc etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mth_networks
(newbie) Fri 22-Jan-21 16:08:30
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: olicuk] [link to this post]
 
Hi Mate,

I assume you've moved and chosen your provider by now, so I hope you chose well and you are online and live! but I wanted to confirm a few bits of information for you, that has been discussed, incase you never got the actual answer you are looking for.

SeeTheLight - these are the sister company of OFNL Networks, and was the first provider on the network. This was created to have a non-wholesale front for the company.

MTH Networks joined the network around 3 years ago, and we have been slowly accepting new customers as we build and develop our systems around OFNL. Our mission is to change the internet experience; and provide the best customer service. We've just dropped our prices across many packages, too. But I dont want to advertise, I simply want to answer your questions and try and help you make the best informed decision possible.

Every provider is limited to using OFNL Infrastructure, and so we do not have any control over it, and the engineers that are send out are from another OFNL-Sister company, GTC.

All OFNL providers should be able to provide Static IP Addresses, however - OFNL limit these to their business lines only, which they charge the ISP more for on a wholesale level. It is correct in thinking that realistically your home IP should very rarely change, as this is locked at DHCP for 90-days at a time, unless your router goes offline for longer than 2 hours.

"Business ISPs" are those that have not had further Company Checks. To be a Residential provider for OFNL, you have to undergo many checks and assurances with the OFNL team, so they can control and ensure the quality of their Residential ISPs.

If I can be of any more help, of if you have any more Network Questions - please feel free to contact me directly, or pop up on our Live Chat. As I said before; I'm not looking to advertise, you dont even have to buy from us! We're interested in making your internet and experience better, without any catch.

Kind Regards

Your MTH Networks Team
ISP for BT OpenReach, OFNL & Custom Installed Networks
Standard User mwarby
(learned) Fri 22-Jan-21 17:36:15
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mth_networks] [link to this post]
 
So ISPs are limited by the IPs that OFNL have ? Seems rather differ from say A&A who may use by wholesale and talk talk, but do so with their own IPs, as I understand it by connecting to those networks at PPP layer not IP

I wonder what control the IT does sound a little like the ISPs may just be doing billing, support and ancillary services running over IP like email
Standard User mth_networks
(newbie) Fri 22-Jan-21 18:58:22
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mwarby] [link to this post]
 
Hey!

You are completely right, most OpenAccess Wholesale networks, such as BT, OFNL etc do offer integration at a top level, allowing you to route your own IPs and effectively the end user see's this as "Their Own Network". But the discount you get from this as an ISP (OpenReach: none! OFNL: very small), is much much smaller than the cost of setup or bandwidth, with the astronomical cost of IPv4 addresses, and OFNL Network Kit does not support IPv6 at this moment, so we are unable to offer this across the network. This would mean for an ISP to connect, setup the required routing servers, and allow for interconnects to the "real world" (rest of the internet!), they would have to join the network with 5-10,000+ connections to cover costs. I'm sure you can imagine what 10,000 IPv4 addresses cost alone (if not, google it !), let alone the salary for support, deployment and assistance.

Hope this explains it a little more!

Kind Regards

Your MTH Networks Team
ISP for BT OpenReach, OFNL & Custom Installed Networks
Standard User mwarby
(learned) Fri 22-Jan-21 19:12:03
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mth_networks] [link to this post]
 
Good to know it’s possible

Yes for a brand new ISP I can see why the white label model might work very well. At least it sounds like you could get more control or even group together with other ISPs and jointly run a different network.

For existing ISPs I guess scale is still an issue, how do you create,market and hookup a product which may only attract a small number of users compared to openreach
Standard User mth_networks
(newbie) Fri 22-Jan-21 19:16:16
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mwarby] [link to this post]
 
mwarby

We like to think we can attract you with our great charm and lovely customer service, vs BT or "The Big Guys". You'll always get one of us on the end of the phone or LiveChat, and you can even (post COVID) come and see our offices in Northamptonshire, UK. We'd be glad to meet our customers and show them where and how we support them. I think that's the only real way we can set ourselves apart from the "Big Boys".

Kind Regards

Your MTH Networks Team
ISP for BT OpenReach, OFNL & Custom Installed Networks
Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 22-Jan-21 19:39:27
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mth_networks] [link to this post]
 
Customers who live in OFNL areas don't get the choice of the Big Boys due to them being locked out.

Standard User olicuk
(member) Fri 22-Jan-21 20:04:02
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Re: Which provider on OFNL


[re: mth_networks] [link to this post]
 
As the OP of this thread, good to see it active and some responses from OFNL enabled ISPs.

Whilst I was a little concerned, I have to say the experience has so far been very very good. For a start (with a little planning on my part) I had a live 300Mbps symmetric fibre connection within an hour of getting the keys... very unusual for anyone moving into an Openreach or VM supplied property I'm sure. Perhaps a little big brotherly it also came with a phone call to say they'd seen I'd connected the router, and could I reboot it. There was a little hiccup getting the static IP which took about 2 weeks as the supplier I chose had to onboard an additional block. But jt was all sorted very personally.

MTH and my eventual choice of supplier, Air Broadband, both seem on the ball. My selection was purely down to overall costs coupled with specific package offerings that I wanted to take - the 300/300 package and a more consumer targeted activation of just under £60 vs around £150 for the "business" package most OFNL ISPs said I'd have to take to get the static IP. I get the impression Air do their own network management and routing, but I've not directly asked and may be wrong. Certainly my static IP is registered to them and not ONFL.

My BQM if anyone is interested:
My Broadband Ping

Generally on my development people seem happier with ONFL than their previous options before moving - just as you'd hope from a fttp solution.

---------
fibre.everestpark.org.uk | Air Broadband 300/300 bqm | Draytek 2860 + Ubiquiti AP
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