About SoGEA

I've ordered Zen Unlimited Fibre 2 for installation next week, now I have read about something called SoGEA and that excluding the landline might give me better speeds or reliability on the line, is this true?

I was with Zen on Business FTTC until early 2018, but have decided to go back as am not happy with VMB's outages.

Zen today told me they don't offer SoGEA, though the BT DSL checker says it is available, and IDNet say I could order it.

So my question is - is it worth cancelling the Zen Fibre Unlimited 2 order (which is about £35/month with their FritzBox) and instead order IDNet SOGEA which will be £40?

Thanks.

It won't give you more speed. I would not recommend it as the circuits test like a spare unused pair on many engineer's meters and that int gonna be a good thing for reliability.

I'm not qualified to disagree with what partial advises. In fact it makes sense to me. Plus, the suggestion that broadband-only could improve performance seems unlikely. But it seems it is only on Zen consumer that SOGEA is not available. It is on Business products. See this current thread.

Seeing as you were previously on Business?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 27-Jan-21 22:31:32)

I would not recommend it as the circuits test like a spare unused pair on many engineer's meters and that int gonna be a good thing for reliability.

That is true to an extent. My line was cut down a week after going to SoGEA. But soon all lines will be SOGEA so there wont be a choice.
But they wont be faster.

Left virgin for prob best isp for performance in idnet fttc 250 m from exchange 12db attenuation

Getting Max of 67mb down

Leaving plusnet to join virgin i was getting mid 70’s down

Crosstalk perhaps ?

Edited by Stanman_24 (Thu 28-Jan-21 08:28:28)

Sync or throughput? Could be on a different pair since leaving virgin.
Different DSLAM ports can give differing connection speeds

throughput

not impressed to be honest but hey !

This source is claiming that the connection might not be faster, but it could be "more reliable" which is why I am considering it, I have zero use for the phone line. So if there's even a small chance at making it more reliable I would probably take it, though not for a significant increase in price, as I am trying to make some savings here

More reliable: Since there is no traditional phone line frequencies being used, there is less of a chance of interference and an unstable connection.

I haven't really found any proof to back this claim up though.

Saltank

That is because it is Marketing speak, "less of a chance" how big is the chance in any case?

If you line is not unstable there is no chance of a change. If it is very unstable there is no chance of this improving it significantly. In the middle no-one will notice.

Agree with KitKat

Got it, thanks!

So the only real reason, if I still can cancel my appointment.. would be to go with their Business Fibre 2 plan, if I wanted potentially better customer service or network priority? I've been on Business products working from home for a while and perhaps I am forgetting potential pitfalls of going the Consumer route.

Going SoGEA is just a personal preference at this point? Out of principle I find it weird to need to pay for a phone line I don't use, it just seems strange to be forced to subscribe to this thing even if it's 'on paper'.

The main cost of the phone line is the maintenance of the physical copper and connections. Phone calls within the UK cost the providers peanuts.

That's why SOGEA is only slightly cheaper than a "phone" line. You still use the copper between the FTTC cabinet and your home. What happens to the one from the cabinet to the exchange I don't know. In theory I expect it can be used by someone else.

Don't think much of the claim of being more reliable. So far we have one reported user and 100% fault rate

I would caution against taking a service that a large amount of engineers can't detect. This is a recipe for unreliability.

Sometimes having a dial tone is also useful for the punter. You have noise, no dial tone or ring trip, you have a fault, a sub optimal line - no argument.

SoGEA and that excluding the landline might give me better speeds or reliability on the line, is this true?

No.

It is just the same as VDSL, but with no dialling tone from the exchange.

+1

What happens to the one from the cabinet to the exchange I don't know. In theory I expect it can be used by someone else.

It stays .... testing the line is still from kit in the exchange.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

What happens to the one from the cabinet to the exchange I don't know. In theory I expect it can be used by someone else.

It stays .... testing the line is still from kit in the exchange.

Interesting. I would have thought the plan was to eventually retire the E-side cables - maybe it still is, but does that mean an alternative copper test infrastructure needs to move in at PCP level?

In reply to a post by ft247:

does that mean an alternative copper test infrastructure needs to move in at PCP level?

Great post by Kitcat Linky

In reply to a post by dect:

]Great post by Kitcat Linky

Very interesting, thanks.

In reply to a post by partial:

It won't give you more speed. I would not recommend it as the circuits test like a spare unused pair on many engineer's meters and that int gonna be a good thing for reliability.

This has been discussed on a BT Forum by an experienced poster (not questioning your experience) who advises Openreach have testing inplace along with tags on the physical connections to indicate SOGEA lines to prevent them being "taken" by engineers. Clearly it's not fool proof.

I was told by one of the big boys that a mk2 version would be out in the near future that only had a dside.

This would apparently generate work as the local main cables were retired gradually and remaining circuits would be condensed on to fewer cables.

Guvners have been sitting at home in their conservatories for months now so they do tend to dream up some crazy ideas.

My thinking was that this would be very labour intensive and would be pretty difficult nowadays as the cabinets have been suffering from being way over their design capacity.

The chap clearly does not have much experience or has been sitting at home in his conservatory too long.

The solution to all this is to have a test signature that even the poor souls who work for contractors can recognise.

It's not that hard to do and I predict as these circuits become widespread is what will happen.

The original 'red care' alarm circuits were private wires that also had no test conditions. Oh how we laughed.

Edited by partial (Sat 30-Jan-21 10:23:19)