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Standard User Swift0r
(newbie) Thu 11-Mar-21 13:56:43
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Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


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Hi, our household was with Virgin Media from 2006 to 2016. We left because of peak time utilisation issues that had never ending fix dates that kept being pushed back between 2014 and 2016. I was compensated per month but we grew tired of peak time problems and started looking for alternatives.

In the end we decided to go with BT 80/20. At the time our expected speeds were between 54Mbps and 74Mbps. We originally synced at 76Mbps but over the years this fell significantly. In 2021 we're now syncing at 42Mbps with a noise margin of 10db. The HUB's max data rate displays 57Mbps. We're out of contract, the HUB needs replacing because the 5ghz wifi has been a little iffy over the past year and I feel we're paying way over the top for slow broadband.

In 2021 our telephone checker still states we can achieve a maximum of 67.6Mbps on a vdsl A range but the impacted B range is as low as 44Mbps. If I go to sites like BT, SKY, Zen now and put in the postcode and landline BT says we can only get fibre 1 with 40-50Mbps and a stay fast guarantee speed of 32Mbps, SKY says 43-62Mbps with a stay fast guarantee of 36Mbps and Zen's estimated download says between 44-68Mbps with a estimate of 47Mbps, can't locate a minimum guarantee even though Zen say's they are complying with Ofcom's rules.

I didn't check Talk Talk, Plusnet etc but they should all be similar results. Virgin Media we can get the m500 and 1 Gigabit is setup but not purchasable yet.

If I decide to switch between one FTTC ISP provider to another is there any chance I could see an improvement in performance? 80Mbps at the top of the line wasn't the best to begin with but I chose FTTC for consistency and it's been good in the sense no peak time drawbacks, in-game latencies have been fine but could be better if I was on fast path and my noise margin was lower. If errors on the line are resulting in dlm adjustments and the problem is Crosstalk is there anything an engineer can do to improve it? If not, that's another thing I have to take into consideration.

Zen seems to get all the plaudits but if I'm going to have the exact same issues from BT to Zen and nothing can be done about it. I might have to switch to Virgin Media again and pray their services have improved.

Any help would be much appreciated. ISP pricing is not really an issue but consistency and download speeds are.

Before anyone asks FTTP Gigabit options are not available in the area so I'm limited between FTTC and Virgin Media.

Also, one last thing, if I conclude that Zen would be my next choice, do they supply a modem/router or do you have to buy your own? In the past I have always used whatever was supplied by VM or BT.
Standard User tboorman
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 14-Mar-21 15:12:25
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: Swift0r] [link to this post]
 
Also, one last thing, if I conclude that Zen would be my next choice, do they supply a modem/router or do you have to buy your own? In the past I have always used whatever was supplied by VM or BT.


Zen supply the FRITZ!Box 7530 - https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/broadband-router.
ISP Representative uno
(isp) Sun 14-Mar-21 15:24:12
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: Swift0r] [link to this post]
 
If raw speed is what you're after, Virgin is likely your better option at least until some alternative form of FTTP comes your way.

All VDSL providers will be using the same line and cabinet and it is highly likely the speed won't be any different between providers.

You may see the speed initially increase if a reset is done by Openreach at the time but the rates may return to their current values over time.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 14-Mar-21 17:01:09
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: Swift0r] [link to this post]
 
I assume you are with BT Consumer at the moment.

If so, I agree with Matt at uno in principle. However I am not happy about your 10dB noise margin. That suggests a current or past problem on the line that could possibly be corrected. So putting you back to a higher speed. Though possibly not as high as originally obtained as outside factors could have arisen.

Do you have the actual detailed connection information please from your BT Hub "Troubleshooting" page?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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Standard User jelv
(knowledge is power) Sun 14-Mar-21 22:06:57
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: Swift0r] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Swift0r:
In 2021 we're now syncing at 42Mbps with a noise margin of 10db. The HUB's max data rate displays 57Mbps.

You've got issues that are slowing your speed - sort those out before you consider moving as you will take the problems with you.

Is the phone line clear with no background noise, crackles etc?

Are you plugged in to the master socket?

Is there anything plugged in to any phone socket without a filter?

jelv

AAISP November 2016
(Previous ISP Plusnet November 2001 to October 2016) Why I left Plusnet
Telephone rental: Pulse8
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Mar-21 00:25:11
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
If raw speed is what you're after, Virgin is likely your better option at least until some alternative form of FTTP comes your way.

All VDSL providers will be using the same line and cabinet and it is highly likely the speed won't be any different between providers.

You may see the speed initially increase if a reset is done by Openreach at the time but the rates may return to their current values over time.

Matt
Virgin better than the rest? not so mate not in quality and stable latency, virgin is JITTER CITY and therefore not consistent throuput
ISP Representative uno
(isp) Mon 15-Mar-21 00:26:17
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
Virgin better than the rest? not so mate not in quality and stable latency, virgin is JITTER CITY and therefore not consistent throuput


In terms of raw speed, they can be. I never mentioned quality, for good reason.

Matt

uno Communications
t: 0333 773 7700
uno Speedtest
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Mar-21 01:34:33
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
In reply to a post by tommy45:
Virgin better than the rest? not so mate not in quality and stable latency, virgin is JITTER CITY and therefore not consistent throuput


In terms of raw speed, they can be. I never mentioned quality, for good reason.

Matt
i'n my experience of non virgin connections where there is excessive jitter there is a contention issue resulting in latency and more frequently throughput issues (downstream) WBMC are favourite for this ,Not seen it on tt wholesale as yet
Standard User Swift0r
(newbie) Wed 17-Mar-21 00:20:01
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I assume you are with BT Consumer at the moment.

If so, I agree with Matt at uno in principle. However I am not happy about your 10dB noise margin. That suggests a current or past problem on the line that could possibly be corrected. So putting you back to a higher speed. Though possibly not as high as originally obtained as outside factors could have arisen.

Do you have the actual detailed connection information please from your BT Hub "Troubleshooting" page?


I am still a BT broadband customer at the moment yes. Well, the Home HUB 5 never really supplied indepth stats. I won't name the other forum but they advised me to get a HG612 or a Zyxel or something that includes a lot of line stats. I only received that today and have had to reboot it a few times to get the firmware updates installed and stuff.

Crosstalk is definitely an issue, I'm banded (too many resets in a short space of time) that isn't true though, the HUB did reset more than it should, once or twice a fortnight, but I never manually reset it time and time again. The only time I ever did a manual reset was when I had to use the test socket before an engineer came out. What happened is the data rate continued to drop overtime and the noise margin continued to increase. I used to monitor the dsl uptime alot and it never cut out one minute, then the next, then the next to trigger dlm intervention. It could appear to be stable then after 14 days when the HUB decided to resync with the cab I had dropped another 5Mbps. Max data rate eventually resynced lower too, but not to the same severity as the data rate.

In reply to a post by jelv:
In reply to a post by Swift0r:
In 2021 we're now syncing at 42Mbps with a noise margin of 10db. The HUB's max data rate displays 57Mbps.

You've got issues that are slowing your speed - sort those out before you consider moving as you will take the problems with you.

Is the phone line clear with no background noise, crackles etc?

Are you plugged in to the master socket?

Is there anything plugged in to any phone socket without a filter?


No background noise on the telephone line in the master or test socket. A slight hum if I press my hear against the phone but that's normal. It does seem to hiss occasionally when the automated message is spoken as well, but I think that too is normal.

I'm plugged into the master socket at the moment (mk3 faceplate) double socket. No extensions but I have tried the test socket as well and seen no improvements with a filter either.

it was suggested on another forum to get a new router for further testing. I have one now, only set it up today though, uptime is only a few hours in due to a few resets which are not the norm, but I needed the firmware flashing, ran into a bit of trouble with it as it was tied to ISP firmware.

I should be able to report more detailed stats with this Zyxel VMG-8924.

Also sorry for the delay. I didn't get any replies in a few days so I thought the forum side of Thinkbroadband was no longer active.
Standard User Swift0r
(newbie) Mon 26-Apr-21 21:22:55
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Re: Struggling to make a decision on next ISP *DELETED*


[re: Swift0r] [link to this post]
 
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