Ready to leaves Plusnet Fibre for ............?

We have alternated Plusnet & BT since we got fibre. Both have given us good service except when they dislodged/broke a cable in the green street box. It took them a week to get a service engineer out to reconnect it. My contract with Plusnet is about to end. I use the supplied modem/router which does not impress me much and which, I understand, can only be used with BT owned providers. I find changing suppliers of electricity, internet etc a real pain.

We use the internet for browsing, catch up Tv etc but no gaming and find our 36Mb plan adequate. We tried 72Mb and it didn't make any obvious difference.

We have Anytime calls as we do not use mobiles - yes there really are some of us left!

I live in an area that does not have FTTP nor any possibility of getting it anytime soon. We do not have any cable service.

The exchange is obviously fibre enabled and has Sky and TalkTalk (CPW) LLU's.

I have looked at remaining with BT, Plusnet, EE and they all have a clause about price rises being 3.9% + CPI which means 4.75%+. This would happen twice in the 18 month contract (June 2021 and March 2022).

Allowing for the price increases due on the BT owned services the likes of Zen and Pulse8 look much more reasonable than they did and I am attracted to the fixed price Zen commitment. I have read good reports about both of them. I am basically neutral on the call costs between Zen & Pulse8.

The questions:

1. Zen or Pulse8?

2. Are there any other providers that I should consider?

3. Is the FRITZ!Box 7530 a good idea? I note that it does not have wireless ax which my new laptop does have.

4. If I go with Pulse8 please suggest a good solid simple modem router that isn't any more expensive than it need to be ?

5. Do any of the suggested providers make changing provider at a future date more complicated?

Providers that use Openreach's infrastructure typically give the same speed (there are some exceptions, as some providers use different DLM profiles/backhauls but generally the speed is similar between providers). The main two things that differentiate providers are price and the quality of their customer service.

To try and answer your questions...

1) I haven't used Zen or Pulse8, but I haven't heard bad things about them.

2) I'm with BT, their customer service isn't always great, but they have provided us a fast and stable service on FTTC/VDSL (obviously this is down to the line quality/interference not the ISP). They aren't cheap, but they do offer some good TV packages.

3) I have heard that FRITZ!Box's are good, but I haven't used one myself.

4) Try the router they supply, then see if you require anything better.

5) I shouldn't think so.

Edited by Grimers (Sat 03-Apr-21 19:55:45)

Thanks for the reply.

The reason for the router question is that Pulse8, as far as I know, don't supply any electronics.

The Billion range is pretty good, do you know what cabinet type you are connected to?

I have used various ISPs that are on the BT network and found the best by far to be idnet,I know that on the same network most ISPs should provide the same speed in theory but moving from plusnet to idnet proved to me that isn't the case,there are factors other than which networks the service uses:- throughput and connection speed aren't the same and some providers traffic shape(they tend to deny this!)at busy times

In reply to a post by Grimers:

The Billion range is pretty good, do you know what cabinet type you are connected to?

It is a Huwai of some sort.

Plusnet admits that they traffic shape, but I know that Zen does not. I am not sure whether Pulse8 do or not.

Ok, then go for a CPE (router) with a Broadcom chipset in it and you should be good to go!

I've been with Zen for years and have always been very happy with them. As for the Fritzbox, I wouldn't worry about the lack of ax. It might connect your laptop to the router faster than ac (if you're close enough, no walls between and so forth) but then you're out to the internet at 30 odd Mbps so that dash to/from the router is all a bit wasted. Unless you're connecting to some other local device on a home network the extra speed won't be of any use to you.

John

Hi Chris -- we're in a similar situation only we're probably older! We don't game or do much streaming so PN's 36MB package, anytime calls, do all we need with total reliability though PN's accounting system remains a nightmare. If you do move you can be sure of plenty of aggro.

Anything outside your master socket is the responsibility of Openreach supposedly now independent of BT. So cable faults will still torture you whatever your ISP.

Costs: I've had a look around and PN is still great value despite the oncoming increases. I would research costings very carefully before I moved if I were you.

As to router, we have no interest or inclination towards tech or fancy features, agree the PN Hub One is far from great but scores of PN users have bought a second-hand HH6 for around £15, used the excellent setup guide on the PN community forum and are enjoying very good results. Good luck whatever you choose.

1. I've been with Zen since October and they've handled all my enquiries (via email) and my current order very well thus far. No experience with Pulse8 I found it difficult to find the info I wanted on their website so gave up.

2. I was with IDNet for two years. Very solid but expensive. Monthly contracts on FTTC. It was great being able to email tech support and get a reply within 30 mins although I sometimes felt they weren't going the extra mile. Definitely get the impression that their main focus is on business clients. I would also consider Sky as I had no issues when I was with them.

3. I am using the Zen-supplied FRITZ!Box 7530 and it's the best router I've ever used, in that it's the most reliable and connects at the fastest speed. The wifi also has the strongest reach (I have done away with any extenders/repeaters). But if you're a tech head that likes to tinkle it's not for you. The other poster is correct in that you will always be limited by your broadband speed so unless you are steaming movies from a NAS etc. or regularly moving very large files then might not need ax. IMO the whole chipset to chipset thing is these days a myth - I had a Billion 8800NL R2 (Broadcom connecting to Huawei DSLAM) which only connected at 20mbps. The Fritz!Box (Intel/Lantiq) connects at 39mbps. I think it's more that certain routers are better matched to certain lines.

5. Very unlikely, I'm afraid if you have any issues leaving a provider it's likely to be PN, sorry.

Pulse8 can supply a router and Adam & Sam offer superb customer service and very low call costs, but if your exchange is unbundled they will switch your line away from BTW over to TTB. I never found that a problem apart from BT pretending they could not identify the line if you were searching for a better deal and the cost of getting the line back to a BT line again. As for Zen, I can vouch for their superb service, low latency along the Fritzibox not missing a beat. I still look around at other providers but can find nothing to tempt me away from Zen so far, especially having suffered most providers in the past. Good luck with whatever you choose, but you seem to have researched and narrowed things down to good providers with a sensible price.

Thank you for all the replies.

I am going with Zen. I like the included VDSL modem router and the price, including the call package, is not excessive when you factor in the price rises coming to the larger providers.

That's because the R2 has a terrible BDCM chipset, and doesn't really work on some VDSL lines.

In reply to a post by professor973:

... I never found that a problem apart from BT pretending they could not identify the line if you were searching for a better deal and the cost of getting the line back to a BT line again.

Hi, sorry to jump in on this, but I'm in the similar boat as the OP, currently with Plusnet, thinking about moving to Pulse8. Can anybody categorically say that if you want to move from a LLU service (eg, Pulse8) back to a BTW service, there will definitley be a charge levied (and if so, how much)? Its the one thing that always puts me off considering LLU services.

Thanks!

In reply to a post by coldnebraskablue:

In reply to a post by professor973:

... I never found that a problem apart from BT pretending they could not identify the line if you were searching for a better deal and the cost of getting the line back to a BT line again.

Hi, sorry to jump in on this, but I'm in the similar boat as the OP, currently with Plusnet, thinking about moving to Pulse8. Can anybody categorically say that if you want to move from a LLU service (eg, Pulse8) back to a BTW service, there will definitley be a charge levied (and if so, how much)? Its the one thing that always puts me off considering LLU services.

Thanks!

Plusnet don't pass on any cease fees. They are charged them by BT Wholesale though.

Some providers pass these cease fees on, others don't.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 20-Jul-21 14:21:33)

The poster is asking about moving back from Pulse8 if they go there.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Some providers pass these cease fees on, others don't.

Indeed they do. Some also try to pass cease fees on even though there are no explicit contractual terms when challenged. They then drop it like a stone. Caveat emptor.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

The poster is asking about moving back from Pulse8 if they go there.

Yes, this ^^^^

https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/faq

Are there any cease or migrate away charges.


No, we do not charge you anything if you decide to cease or migrate your telephone / broadband or fibre service away from us.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/faq

Are there any cease or migrate away charges.


No, we do not charge you anything if you decide to cease or migrate your telephone / broadband or fibre service away from us.

I have made the same jump on FTTC and was charged for jumping back to BTw.

No idea whether this was phone line related or not, so not sure whethere you coud sensibly read across to FTTP.

Defiinitely a cherge for getting Pulse8 unbundled TTB back to BT, as far as I can remember it was around £150 I got charged a few years ago, so not sure of the cost now. That said, I have recently checked out Pulse8 again while looking around and would take it again for the no contract tie-in and good service alone over 18/24 month ripoff contracts elsewhere.

In reply to a post by professor973:

Defiinitely a cherge for getting Pulse8 unbundled TTB back to BT, as far as I can remember it was around £150 I got charged a few years ago, so not sure of the cost now.

£150!?!?

You must be mistaken.... cease fees are usually around £30. I've never seen a cease fee over £50.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by professor973:

Defiinitely a cherge for getting Pulse8 unbundled TTB back to BT, as far as I can remember it was around £150 I got charged a few years ago, so not sure of the cost now.

£150!?!?

You must be mistaken.... cease fees are usually around £30. I've never seen a cease fee over £50.

Flippin' 'eck Tucker! * £150 ?? Even £30 is too much.

Thanks for the replies - there seem to be a lot of services that have some kind of LLU these days, but these kind of charges really put me off jumping ship to an LLU provider.

(* This exclamation will only make sense to people of a certain age...)

It wouldn't have been a cease fee. It would be a connection fee by the new provider, but £150 sounds improbably high.

Please yourself, I've only been there and got the T-shirt. I expect it's costed as a BT new line, something that won't exist in its current form much longer anyway. You could easily look up the cost of a standard connection charge and find it's around what I got charged for putting my line back with BT - Waived if you tie-in with a long BT contract I expect, but not if you put your business elsewhere! https://www.bt.com/help/landline/getting-set-up/cost...

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Jul-21 15:35:39)

That's £140 for a new line and will be charged if you don't buy into BT services! https://www.bt.com/help/landline/getting-set-up/cost...

What has your connection charge from a new ISP got to do with cease fees charged by the old provider?

There's no way you were charged £150 by Pulse8 as a cease fee alone.

That's not the same as your total final bill...

Edit: you also don't get charged for a new line by BT when migrating from another OpenReach provider.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 22-Jul-21 15:40:21)

WE ARE NOT TALKING NEW PROVIDER CHARGES. I have linked to a new BT line cost passed on to a new non-BT provider for the work that thay have to undertake. I HAVE BEEN CHARGED THAT amount for that and linked to that cost, but still forum knowalls know better. Little change here then!

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Jul-21 16:52:00)

What you have linked is NOT the charges for migrating from another OpenReach provider.

Where there's no suitable BT line available, no dial tone on the line, or if you've ever been disconnected for non-payment, then you might need to pay a connection charge. If you only have a calling plan with BT, the standard connection charge is normally £140.

There's no connection charge from BT for migrating to them.
BT provide

. I have linked to a new BT line cost passed on to a new non-BT provider for the work that thay have to undertake.

No, you haven't. That's not what your have linked at all.

I've no idea what you've been charged, but it wasn't a cease fee of £150.

Who charged you the £150? Was it charged by the losing provider or the gaining provider?

I'll leave you to play with yourself, as you are obviously too illiterate to understand the meaning of a charge PASSED ON BY BT!
https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/reconnect-phoneline-c...

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Jul-21 16:55:16)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I'll leave you to play with yourself, as you are obviously too illiterate to understand the meaning of a charge PASSED ON BY BT!

By BT do you mean BT the ISP, or OpenReach, or BT Wholesale?

What you linked were charges for a new BT line, from BT the ISP.
The £140 is a connection charge and is only applicable if the line is inactive and only if you take a calls only package.
They don't charge if you take a broadband package or they charge as little as £30.

The £140 has nothing to do with a broadband migration from another OpenReach provider, LLU or not.

They are not the charges levied by OpenReach or BT Wholesale for a migration between LLU and a BT Wholesale provider.

You are being as clear as mud about who charged you £150 and what the charges are actually for.
You've ignored 2 other posters questions on the subject and rather than providing more details you've been rude and stuck your caps key on.

I'm still unaware what any of it has to do with a cease fee.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 22-Jul-21 17:22:19)

[censored]!

IT's the cost of the work by two sets of engineers in the exchange PASSED ON to whoever the next provider is, nothing to do with a charge by the gaining provider, though they may have a standard connection fee thay add to that!
https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/reconnect-phoneline-c...

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Jul-21 17:48:15)

In reply to a post by professor973:

IT's the cost of the work by two sets of engineers in the exchange PASSED ON to whoever the next provider is, nothing to do with a charge by the gaining provider, though they may have a standard connection fee thay add to that!

Strange when I moved in 2016 from Bulldog (ex C&W) to Plusnet, there was only a £30 fee charged. I didn't have to pay that "new line" charge. Bulldog was full LLU (MPF) rather than SMPF. I hope you weren't conned.

That choose website doesn't appear to be a broadband authority, is there anything on Thinkbroadband or Ofcom's website that helps?

Possibly, but reading the blurb it seems there are many factors that can set the price. certain gaining providers and the LLU itself. Several factors will reduce the fee from the standard £140, one of which I suspect is allowing yourself to be screwed by putting your services with BT itself with its horrendous long contract and call charges, not that many worry about landline for anything other than delivering broadband these days. The only good about the floating price of getting back to a BT line, any gaining provider has to make potential customers aware of total charges in their quote.

In reply to a post by professor973:

Several factors will reduce the fee from the standard £140,

Just wow...

There is no standard £140 fee for a migration.
That's for installing a new line or reactivating a dead line with no dial tone.
That's the price that BT charge when no broadband is ordered and no line exists.

A migration costs a fraction of that to the CP and is usually free for a customer.

Here's the OpenReach and BT Wholesale charges for migrations, including all the LLU, MPF, SMPF, SOGEA, etc connotations.

OpenReach's WLR pricing

BT Wholesale WBC Pricing

Even a new line with a managed install doesn't cost £140

If you've been charged that kind of figure for a migration you've been ripped off.

The BT Wholesale cease fee is currently £31.12.

Post deleted by seb

Edited by professor973 (Thu 22-Jul-21 22:29:47)

In reply to a post by professor973:

Were you born stupid or did you jave to study?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5363...

Thanks for the 2007 forum post. Even the OP that you linked is contradicted a few posts later.

I linked you with CURRENT prices.

You're wrong. Very wrong.
I'm done wasting my time

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 22-Jul-21 22:35:41)